Malindo Pilots Contract

[koji188]

Does anyone know what contract was given to Malindo DFO in Malaysia?

From what i heard cadets are required to fork up RM145K for 738 rating, no pay for the first 500 hours and a bond of 15 years. If they do decide to break the bond, they're required to pay RM300k.

I'm not too sure about this thats why im just asking whether anyone can verify this info.

[squarecrow]

There was a thread about this before which mentioned something like that for
a Training agreement.
Either way if its true good luck to them to enforce it, that is truly ridiculous!

[brasmelzuit]

but there's still a long queu to join this company...So amazed..

[captjns]

Mommy and Daddy! Waste more money on me and buy me a non-paying job!:{. I want it now!:{. If you don't buy me that non-paying flying job, I'll hold my breath until I turn blue!:*

[Gtr21]

if this is true, that's terrible and basically slavery!! I know people get desperate after spending a lot of money on training and still not having a job for a while but surely any one with an ounce of dignity wont consider this monstrosity of a deal

[Garfs]

What you mentioned was what was offered to a friend of mine, ie RM145k for TR, no pay for first 500 hrs etc.

But yes still lotsa people waiting to join

[koji188]

How is it that they can afford 145k just for training? Are loans arranged by the company or what? Wish those who got offered the job in the recent intake could shed some light on this. It would really suck if they were bonded for 15 years even after paying for their own training.

[jack s]

it will destroy the future if a pilot ! :ugh: 500 hrs will take approx 2 yrs to complete no pay and in debt ? WOW ! :mad:

[squarecrow]

Sounds like the Company plan is to avoid losing money on training,
Ask the Trainee to pay for Rating and add a bit for any other expenses incurred hence 145K RM. Don't pay for Trainee for 500 hrs while the Trainee completes line training on revenue flights. The 15 year 300K sounds like a threat either way if anyone runs off the company dont lose by the looks of it.
My 10RM worth and as I said Ridiculous and seem tailored on P2F style
Pay for TR fly 500 for free..

[Apache702]

comes around... the public will hear about that, very bad marketing, malindo will fail, give it some time

[koji188]

The public doesn't really care about how much pilots are paying for their training as long as they get to fly for cheap prices. Plus, whoever accepted the contract given by Malindo knows the price they have to pay for it and are more willing to do so for this job. My question still remains, how do they get so much money for the training? I doubt that the 179 cadets that got the job are all that rich to pay for such a huge amount.

[koji188]

And no, they will not fail. At least not in the near future. They've got very solid financial backing. I wish them all the best. IIt's for the good of Malaysian aviation industry. More competition among airlines now. And more jobs too.

[Gtr21]

@koji how do you know they have a solid financial backing ??
If the company was serious about it, they wouldn't do the P2F, they would invest in the pilots.
The deal offered is inhumane and i really do hope people throw it back in their face.
The only way the company can afford low prices is if they can squeeze out the pennies out of the helpless pilots.
ps koji if you do end up working for them, be prepared to fly ac's with many dmi's and also check out the planks in the cockpit, they are all leased !!
More options for the Malaysian public i agree but i do hope the Malaysian dgca keep a tight leash on them

[captjns]

If the company was serious about it, they wouldn't do the P2F, they would invest in the pilots.

Why should they. There are way many schmucks out there who have parents willing to drop a lot of coin so their children can take the short route to the right seat of an airliner.:=

The only way the company can afford low prices is if they can squeeze out the pennies out of the helpless pilots.

On the contrary, what better way is there to keep training costs down? What better way is there to have $$$ on hand for higher salaries for management?:D

[jetjockey696]

there are hundreds CPL waiting to get into Malindo.. because they are desperate... no one is hiring.. not airasia or malaysia.. they can go anywhere else. the government does mind.. because along they are providing jobs for the local.. everyone is happy..

Its asia Gtr21, you can argue your case..but paying money to fly etc... but in asia Its business.. you got the goods, he has the money.. let do business. most of these guys have loan from the government.. because they are Malaysian ethnic (Orang asli).

Air asia also make money from the cadets.. nothing for free..here..

[jetjockey696]

Btw Air asia still has a scheme... with CAE. AIR ASIA – DIRECT ENTRY CAPTAINS - NO A320 EXPERIENCE REQUIRED and pay for type rating and pay for admin fees etc..

Money makes the turbine spins.. and local malaysian (all ethnic):ok: with experience...

it all business....

[koji188]

If the company was serious about it, they wouldn't do the P2F, they would invest in the pilots.
The deal offered is inhumane and i really do hope people throw it back in their face.

I can obviously see that you are not from Asia. Right now its hard to find an airline that offers "Investments" of pilots like how it was back in the day. For now the only airlines that offer that is AirAsia and MAS. But as far as i know MAS isn't even recruiting anymore, they're even letting some of them go. While Airasia has 3 intakes a year. Even with that, they only need 8 to 12 at a time while in Malaysia we have over 1500 unemployed CPL holders. So you can see where P2F scheme comes into play. Malindo has been introduced to this via their parent company, Lion Air. In Indonesia most of the airlines practice this method. At financial times like this, if they can save money and cadets are willing to pay for it, why not?

From where you're from yes it may seem inhumane, but for the people here that's life. If they could get offered jobs overseas they would, but the truth is no foreign company will want to go through all that trouble with all the paper work just to get you into the country to allow you to work as a lowly second officer that has to start from scratch.

if you do end up working for them, be prepared to fly ac's with many dmi's and also check out the planks in the cockpit, they are all leased

Im working for another company. Just so you know, the a/c that Malindo has are all brand new 738 and 739ER and so what if its leased? Doesn't mean maintenance wouldn't be up to standard. Only time will tell.

[Gtr21]

Kind sirs dont get me wrong i do understand the difficulties in getting a job and i know this is how things work in regards to supply and demand.
I am just sorry for the genuine pilots who are gonna be shut out due to fact they cant afford to pay malindo's demands.

Koji@ yes i am not from around here but i do work around here, so i kinda do know the lay of the land, dont tell me there were no jobs in asia as there was, until the 250 hour rule was introduced, from top my head in indonesia sky, wings, susi were recruiting for fresh graduates, did any of these guy who are sooo eager for a job come over and do the leg work to get a job?

You also say they got this idea from lion air, the P2F is only for foreigner not the locals and even then the deals are a lot more better, again i understand the market is hard, i can justify paying for type to get a job, but paying 50 grand and bonded for15 years, thats just insane.

The issue is people dont want to fly a carawan or a prop, they want to be in a jet with 250 hours and when it doesnt happen they sit at home and cry saying there is no jobs.
Please do not justify that this kind of deals are ok as they are distroying a lot more than just aviation.
And you do relise lion also operates brand new ac's? The issue is the maintence and as malindo is just an extension of lion i dont hold much hope, i do hope thou the malaysian dgca takes sterner control than here thou

[twins9]

I have a few friends who signed on Malindo. It is a P2F program but where else can they get the TR? Without the TR and hours, they will never get a job, so it is either pay up or move on. It is the same in any country. My friend told me it is the same as walking into a flying club and paying to fly the single engine,....except flying club hours are useless in applying for jet jobs. Well, Rm290 or USD100 an hour is "cheap" to fly an ATR or a jet. Just consider it as a hobby which pays after you completed 500 hours!

It is an acceptable way of training, we pay a few hundred thousands to get a Doctor or Lawyer licence here as well. If you study at University, you pay Rm100k to RM150k for an engineering degree, then, at your final year, you work as an intern almost for free 3 to 6 months.... so tell me what is the difference? If you have the passion for flying, you will work it out.

As for the 15 year bond... I have no idea when the bond starts... At the date of joining as a cadet or at the date of signing up as an employee after the initial advance training of 500 hours. No idea of what is the pay like after 500 hours too.

As Malindo has 2 TR, the ATR and the 737, is it the same training fee for both ty pes?

[twins9]

Except for a selected few who were sent out for training, majority of the 179 ab initio pilots who signed up in March 2013 are still waiting around for their turn.

Anyone heard of staff leaving Malindo shortly after joining? Any rumours or news of what is going on? Malindo deny there is an exodus but confirmed that 7 ppl out of the strong work force of 700 left the company. 7 out of 700 can hardly be labeled as "Exodus", right?

[squarecrow]

Do the "179" have any idea from Management when they will start?
If not maybe some got an offer elsewhere? as you say if it is 7 then it's not alot.

[koji188]

As far as i know 7 management guys has left. 1 i know for sure is the Director of flight operations. They could't take the working conditions. Apparently its pretty ****.

And for the ab initio guys im not too sure about it. But from what i heard no intakes for cadets anytime soon. Lots of back log with training and aircraft isn't coming in as soon as planned. Not too sure about how many has been trained though.

Any more info from the ab initio guys with contracts would be nice.

[smiling monkey]

y friend told me it is the same as walking into a flying club and paying to fly the single engine,....except flying club hours are useless in applying for jet jobs. Well, Rm290 or USD100 an hour is "cheap" to fly an ATR or a jet. Just consider it as a hobby which pays after you completed 500 hours!

OMG, you can't be serious?? In an airline you have hundreds of passengers who have paid for a ticket with the understanding that they will be flown to their destination by someone who is a professional pilot. Not someone who considers it the same as flying a joy flight in a C172. If that's the attitude of you and the many other Malaysian P2Fs flying for Malindo in the future, then I hope the flying public will stay well clear of you. :rolleyes:

[GlueBall]

Paying "RM145K for B738 rating" (USD $46,500)...? :{

Life is tough, but it's tougher if you're stupid. :ooh:

[nostep]

Its not Malindo its now called Mal-india as all other races have been removed from holding any important positions.:D

[The Rage]

It is if they are from Management.


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[squarecrow]

the 145K is probably just a figure made up out of thin air. Its to cover any losses is usually the excuse given.

Doesnt seem very clever, if you paid for the TR as the "Trainee" you could go off unless they give you a loan which then gives them leverage.

Good luck to them then to go to court to recover the remaining 300K bond.

[koji188]

the 145K is probably just a figure made up out of thin air. Its to cover any losses is usually the excuse given.

Doesnt seem very clever, if you paid for the TR as the "Trainee" you could go off unless they give you a loan which then gives them leverage.

Good luck to them then to go to court to recover the remaining 300K bond.

That's the screwed up part of the contract that i'm still wondering whether if its true. Cause according to the contract, rating is paid by the cadet themselves, and yet the company still bonds them for 15 years AND 300k is required to be paid to the company if they leave before bond is up. On top of that the first 500 hours of no pay. Not too sure the meaning of no pay as in basic allowance or flight allowance. Either way is pretty much RIDICULOUS.

As far as i know, Malindo doesnt help with loans, everything is up to the cadet to deal with, company just provides the training.

My info may not be accurate as i heard it from someone whose brother is one of the 179 who got in.

[reflector]

the 500 hours no pay part isn't true. it was speculated earlier on but when the contract was out, there was no mention of the 500 hours thing.

[squarecrow]

In that case we are down to pay the 145K RM first for TR .

No pay to fly fro 500hrs.

Bonded for 300K, 300K RM for what, Any Groundschool (eg,RNP/RVSM,SEP, LVO,Line trg intro class etc) Base Trg if not included in TR and Line training. Cant believe it costs that much and Line training is on revenue flights, as you say Ridiculous.

[koji188]

Any idea what the contract states? Basic pay, allowances, benefits etc.

[CAPTAIN WOOBLAH]

Quite frankly I think you have all gone mad !!!:ugh:

[cav-not-ok]

i agree with captain woobs.

by accepting these ridiculous contracts you have set precedence which will destroy our profession, and turn us in to rapid kl driver.

when i graduated, i applied everywhere. i even applied to do cloud seeding in a shorts 360.

i just hope that these guys who are paying money to fly, actually do want to fly, and are not doing it for bragging rights. i hope they have the attitude and aptitude to fly. i do not want to see another airliner crash because the guy in the right seat was holding nose up in a stall, wondering why the aircraft is not reducing its vertical speed.

remember kids, the day you complain that the airline does not respect you, it is your own fault. have fun playing with lives.

[twins9]

There is a freeze on ab initio intake and only a few of the 179 ab initios signed up by Malindo is sent for training this year. Everyone else has to wait indefinitely because Malindo has recruited lots of experienced captains and co-pilots from other airlines.

Thanks to Malindo, other airlines are opening up and recruiting ab initios and training them now. This is good news for those waiting in line.

[twins9]

Malindo is expecting another 6 737s and 3 ATRs delivery before end of October, 2013. This airline is growing by leaps and bounds. I remember AA only had 2 aging 727?? for the first 1 or 2 years!

Total 10 aircrafts by October 2013 and they only started in March!

Really respect the LION KING.

[CAPTAIN WOOBLAH]

Twins9,

If you are referring to AA being airasia then it was 2 x B733's.

AA from memory refers to American Airlines and again from memory they started before the 727 was on the drawing board. It started as American Airways and was renamed American Airlines circa 1934.

Again I rest my case. " I think you have all gone mad " :ugh:

Wooblah.

[kwaiyai]

I hear several FY Capts left for Malindo ATR but due to slow start went back to FY and politely told sorry No Job here mate,

[twins9]

ATRs coming in, 4 total by October. Do they have enough 737 pilots? 6 737 just till October and if 2 more by December....

[twins9]

Anyone has updates on Malindo ab initios pilots employment? Lets not argue about the funds, bonding, etc.

Have the first group started flying? When will they start training Batch 2?

[CAPTAIN WOOBLAH]

Twins9,

Why don't you front up at their office with 300K and tell them to give you a job. Because we all know it's a money making racket.

It is obvious that you are desperate for slavery and that your Daddy has bags of money. So no big problem here! :D

Wooblah.

[jetjockey696]

They got excess flight crew... so they gone to Thai Lion Air to help out..

[kwaiyai]

‘Thai Lion Air’ is hiring pilots and cabin crew for Boeing 737-800 And offering you the opportunity to become part of the leading team that connects Bangkok to various cities and destinations via our Hub of the ASEAN.

Captain :
Requirements

Maximum Age 55 years.
Valid type rating B737 300-900.
Minimum 1,000 hrs on B737 300-900 or Minimum flight experience: 5,000 total flight hours (non-typed rated) and 1,000 total flight hours as Pilot-in-command on jet engines aircraft.
Holding valid ATPL with valid first class medical.
English, written and spoken, (Language proficiency ‘’ICAO’’ level 4 or higher).
No criminal record.
Must have legal right to live and work in Thailand.

Experienced First Officers :
Requirements

Maximum Age 55 years.
Valid type rating B737 300-900.
Minimum 500 hrs on B737 300-900 or Minimum flight experience: 1,500 total flight hours (non-typed rated) and 500 total flight hours on jet engines aircraft.
Holding valid ATPL with valid first class medical.
English, written and spoken, (Language proficiency ‘’ICAO’’ level 4 or higher.)
No criminal record.
Must have legal right to live and work in Thailand.

Application

[twins9]

Problem with money is not the issue here..

The real problem lies in the fact that nothing happened after signing the "contract" in March. No news, no when, no what, just nothing, that is what is so frustrating to the parents and children of the slave team.

Rm150k may be a lot to some ppl, but it is either pay to get the rating or wait forever. Now, that they are ready to pay...still has to wait FOREVER!

Paying Rm300k upfront not gonna make a difference...lol..

[mikel_olafaz]

i heard batch number 1 already progressing in their line training. 22 aircrafts by end of next year. 150 ab-initios left to train. u think they will make it? :p

[refugeeseeker]

Anyone willing to share the pay package for ATR72 skippers with Malindo?

[Mazzeite]

Anyone have the HR recruitment e-mail? I have 2000TT 500 737-400 and 1300 737-200. FO. Thanks in advance for the help.

[fareez36]

try cx lion air thai website @Mazzeite.
i heard they looking for FO's.
:D