Single crew aircraft operated multi crew

[El_Pilota]

Hi all,


Basically I got offered a job on a Piaggio Avanti P180 which is a single crew high performance multi engine aircraft and I've got a question. Both myself and the captain will be type rated as required by EASA and will be flying under IFR and as Multi Crew in accordance with the company ops manual and AOC. The question is, since being a single crew aircraft, who can log the hours? Can we both log it as Multi Crew or only the captain can log?

The captain holds an EASA ATPL and I hold an EASA CPL with ME/IR ("Frozen" ATPL)
Your answers would be really appreciated!


Best Regards

[OhNoCB]

I'm led to believe that as long as the aircraft is being operated on a multi crew AOC and both pilots are licenced to fly the aircraft and current, then both can log the hours for the capacity in which they operated as (P2, PIC).

[parabellum]

I think OhNoCB is correct up to the PIC bit, I think that can only be PIC(U/S) unless you are nominated as a co-captain with the authority to sign for the aircraft as commander.

[mad_jock]

Its the same as any other multi crew aircraft.

There can only be one PIC.

PICUS maybe getting changed from the UK version of doing it. Which to be honest is unique.

[Agaricus bisporus]

I think OhNoCB is correct up to the PIC bit, I think that can only be PIC(U/S) unless you are nominated as a co-captain with the authority to sign for the aircraft as commander.

Eee! The perils of applying local procedures on an international website!


The staff answer is go look it up in the rules of the Authority of registration.

As said by OhNoCB in EU if the AoC specifies it as a two pilot operation then two pilot rules apply, Capt logs P1, FO logs P2.

And on the subject of local procedures let's not complicate matters with UK local procedures on PiCus as the rest of the world might get upset that they have to jump through several hoops and actually earn this whereas UK FOs get it gratis for doing nothing at all...

[El_Pilota]

Hi All,

Thank you for your replies!

I think OhNoCB is right as I did look it up and according to AMC to PART FCL.050:

"2.2. Co-pilot flight time. The holder of a pilot licence occupying a pilot seat as co-pilot may log all flight time as co-pilot flight time on an aircraft on which more than one pilot is required under the type certification of the aircraft, or the regulations under which the flight is conducted." As for the very last bit "or the regulations..." is referring to the Companies AOC & Manuals.

On the other hand I don't think I can be as P1 as in OPS 1.960 there is the following:

"An Operator shall ensure that:

(ii) when operating on a multi-engine type under Instrument Flight Rules (IFR), the pilot has a minimum of
700 hours total flight time on aeroplanes which includes 400 hours as pilot-in-command (in accordance with
the requirements governing Flight Crew Licenses) of which 100 hours have been under IFR including
40 hours multi-engine operation. The 400 hours as pilot-in-command may be substituted by hours operating
as co-pilot on the basis of two hours co-pilot is equivalent to one hour as pilot-in-command provided
those hours were gained within an established multi-pilot crew system prescribed in the Operations Manual;"

And since I have a CPL ME/IR I fall under the above...I suppose....


Thanks again!

[Agaricus bisporus]

The reason you can't log P1 is because you are employed as the FO!

When you are Captain you can, but not until then.

[I-NNAV]

Hi!
On the basis of my previous experience (C525 and EMB-500 both SPA and both operated under AOC in MP) you and your Cpt can both log, but you both have to complete a MP TR instead of a Single Pilot TR.
Provided that EASA didn't change anything..
Best
Vanni