Hand shake nuisance

[711]

Yes, I know, there are bigger problems around on this planet.

But, for the love of Jesus Christ, can we pleeeeease stop the idiotic hand shake procedure. We hate it, they hate it, it is useless, not part of asian culture and just a huge pain in the b.

[DropKnee]

Agreed, i love it when they insist on shaking hands in rank order. Crazy to watch them bump into each other.

[clear.right]

Yes, I know, there are bigger problems around on this planet.

But, for the love of Jesus Christ, can we pleeeeease stop the idiotic winge procedure. I hate it, you hate it, it is useless, not part of adult culture and just a huge pain in the b.

[Captain Dart]

Ahh yes, the handshakes. Have avoided the ritual since the SARS scare.

Also a pain the ass, unhygienic and above all, insincere.

And wait 'til we get the A380!

[Arfur Dent]

If you don't like it, get your miserable self on the bus and wait at the back. You're right- there are bigger problems.

[ASH1111]

Glad to see all of the appreciation for Jesus Christ.

Exodus 20:7
English Standard Version (ESV)
7 “You shall not take the name of the Lord your God in vain, for the Lord will not hold him guiltless who takes his name in vain.


(BTW- this doesn't apply only if you believe in Him. You can jump off Taipei 101, and not believe in gravity, it won't matter one bit!)

Cue the God haters.

Oh yes, do not care for the handshake ritual. :}

[Captain Dart]

No,the back of the bus doesn't help, they track you down. My personal technique is to loiter near the water cooler, then tag on the end of the line.

[flapsupdown]

As mentioned, nobody likes it - not them, not us - and yes, it probably is insincere because it's forced upon.

Having said that, I feel it does serve a purpose in at least giving everyone a chance to meet each other. At the very least, it will give them a "human face" if you will, for who is on the other side of the locked door. We say "call us anytime you see anything unusual" and we try to set the tone of open communication - but without a face-to-face meet and greet beforehand I think it will actually hinder communication and put a even larger gap between us and them.

Perhaps just a introduction in the briefing room, or near the couches would be better than the awkward and insincere handshaking ritual. But before we eliminate the handshake, we need SOMETHING to replace it. Everybody already goes about doing their own thing as soon as we get to the aircraft, and in some cases we don't see them again for the rest of the flight/duty - the handshake at least gives them a chance to see who is flying them and for us to "set the tone", and maybe even a sense of unity/team (rare, but I've seen some captains work miracles)

[Sqwak7700]

You can jump off Taipei 101, and not believe in gravity, it won't matter one bit!

Yeah, but the big difference is that gravity exists - it is not a figment of the imagination of a few confused loudmouthed individuals.:yuk:

But seriously, maybe we can just high-five or fist-bump before the flight for christ's sake!

[joblow]

Not crazy about shaking hands myself, but I think I might try another approach
Give the girls a kiss and hug hello . The guys maybe not so much ,but once the word spread that you like to kiss and hug I can bet you that the girls would all be on the bus before you get to immigration

[ASH1111]

Sqwak, we appreciate you fist bumping for the sake of Christ!

[ANCPER]

ASH1111,

I'll tempt God. Gravity can be shown, your belief in a fairy tale can't. Simple really and has nothing to do with hating God as it's not rational to hate a none existent being!:p

[freightdog188]

chill guys -
trying to talk sense into a religiously deluded man is like trying to play chess with a pigeon.
No matter how good your game is, the pigeon will will only knock the pieces over, crap on the board and strut around like it is victorious.

[Fly747]

What I hate most is when they have recently smothered their hands in some very slimy and stinky hand cream. It is most unhygienic and i have to wash my hands as soon as I get on the aircraft.

[ASH1111]

I know, I know. Long ago, and far away, millions and billions of years ago..:ok:(cue the fairy tale music)

Nothing started spinning really fast (where the inertial laws came from to act upon this speck of dirt, we don't know) exploded and made everything.:D

Living matter came from non living matter (haven't yet been able to replicate that in a controlled environment yet, but hey..), the first and second Laws of thermo dynamics were violated, Law of angular momentum violated, and here you are, along with strawberries, giraffes, blue whales..really?

You have made the statistically impossible-now possible, as long as you sprinkle in a few more billion years as needed. (Season to taste, of course)

Those silly Christians actually believe that a design has a designer, a painting has a painter, a building has a builder, and creation has a creator. Ha! Simpletons.

Nope. Can't be. Some guy named Richard Dawkins told me so. It's the British accent, get's me every time!

Forgive the sarcasm, take the point.

We have an answer for "In the Beginning" you have a best guess, with astronomical odds that can't even be mathematically quantified, they are so small. Why again are we on the defensive??

I do give the Atheist credit though for the incredible faith they are able to exhibit in their mathematically unquantfiable event. So much faith in fact, that the rest of us are simpleton fools.

Over and out!

[Dropp the Pilot]

Hitchens, Dawkins - never understood why these people have to be so noisily evangelistic about their opinions. Do they think I care?

Unlike their creator they seem to need to employ the shrill small voice.

And to think this all started with a handshake. It is a strange and marvelous world we live in.

[SloppyJoe]

You have made the statistically impossible-now possible

Statistically impossible to happen on one planet maybe.

There are 300,000,000,000 stars in the milky way galaxy.

There are 1,000,000,000,000 galaxies in the visible universe.

It is not statistically impossible when you use these sorts of number.

[fly123456]

Why can't you, both believers and atheists, just admit that you cannot prove your thoughts, therefore cannot know, therefore all become agnostics. Would make life much easier.

Oh and by the way, Allah akbar.

[Threethirty]

The vastness of space must be an illusion, it cannot go on infinitely, whatever exists at the boundaries of space lies the answer. At that point, whoever or whatever is there if asked would probably say the insincere Cathay hand shake policy needs to be ditched pronto because it's just daft.

[Captain Dart]

It's not so much the hand cream, it's the thought that some of them may have been wiping their bot-bots not long before, especially on a morning flight!

And will the people with an imaginary friend please stop hijacking this thread?

[freightdog188]

ASH1111, the understanding we have of the universe now isn't something that has just been dictated. It's actually the cumulative knowledge we've gained from thousands of years of asking and answering difficult questions.

If you are going to believe in the biblical model you can't just say "the bible says", you actually have to answer those same difficult questions in a way that fits your model.

For example, we know the speed of light in a vacuum is a constant. Experiments have proven it repeatedly, and the theories of both special and general relativity require it to be constant. No experiment has ever been able to throw doubt on either theory.

Moving on then... we can probably agree that the speed of light is a constant.

In 1909 an astronomer noted that something called "redshift" occurs in other galaxies. Redshift is a form of doppler effect, wherein the waves of something moving towards you get squished together, while the waves of something moving away get stretched out. You hear it with sound waves when a car goes past.

A later astronomer, Hubble, noted that all galaxies have redshift. This means they're moving away from us. He surmised that in fact all galaxies are separating, and that space itself is expanding. How do you explain this phenomenon? Knowing as much as we do about light and how it works, do you think this is explainable any other way?

Taking that understanding, scientists began working backwards. The amount of redshift was calculable, that means the rate of expansion is calculable too. And if you extend that rate back? You get close to fourteen billion years to get to a point where it's... a point.

Other scientists came up with theories to prove or disprove this possibility. It was radical at the time, everyone just assumed the universe always was and always would be. No one successfully disproved it. But people were able to model the "big bang" as it became called, and the model predicted a form of radiation would still persist in the universe, like the "echo" of the big bang. That echo is a "black body spectrum" of a very specific nature. It's basically a graph.

In the 70s, some researchers were trying to do some experiments with radio wave measurement from weather balloons. No matter what they did there was some interference from a source. They could not account for it in all of their testing and research. They had stumbled on it - the radioactive echo of the big bang. The black body profile matched exactly. How do YOU account for this "buzz", known as Cosmic Microwave Background Radiation? What does the bible say about it?

We know how atoms work. We have something called the "Standard Model", which explains the workings of matter and energy to such a degree that it's obviously outright correct. It's made predictions (such as the Higgs Boson most recently, but many others previously) and they've always been borne out. So we know all this. We use the knowledge to build all sorts of things. We use the knowledge we have to create bombs of unthinkable power. We use the knowledge to treat people who have cancer and other diseases. We even use it to create clocks so accurate we can measure how much gravity distorts time itself.

Are you actually telling me that you think we don't understand this principle well enough to classify rocks? And more particularly, are you actually telling me that you're discarding (only) that aspect of this knowledge because it conflicts with the "science" in a 3000+ year old religious book?

Even aside from the billions of years of time, 6000 years is stunningly unsupportable. There is a single tree that's 9550 years old.
You can determine from its rings when there were good years, years with a large volcano, years with drought, etc, and then cross reference them to get a remarkably good picture of life and time.

Lots of things work like that. There are areas of sedimentary rock, for example, where seasonal thaws and freeze cycles change the deposited materials, forming clear bands of colour for every year. These bands are called "varves". Varves can be traced clearly back for around 52,000 years. Ice does the same thing. Deposited ice forms clear layers annually. These lines can be used to determine lots of fun things, like carbon levels, oxygen, pollen counts.. but more relevantly, you can just count them. There's one single ice core that goes back through 800,000 years of history.

Basically, if you want to present your view as legitimate in any sense you need to explain all of this stuff. You need to undo our understanding of nuclear physics, geography, genetics and geology. You need to provide a better answer, a better explanation for things like the CMBR.

But more than that.. you need to provide a reason why God created a world in 6 days, but then created it in such a way that it looks like it was created billions of years ago. You need to explain why there are stars we can see that are billions of light years away. That God created them with light on their way to us, almost ready to hit us, is I suppose possible. But it seems absurd.

You also need to explain why to give us somewhere to worship him, God chose to create a universe 98 billion light years across, containing roughly 1024 stars in 200 billion galaxies. Why he chose to make black holes, pulsars, magnetars, white dwarfs and supernova...

Also, you need to explain (just because I've always wondered) why it took the same amount of time to create all of that, every swirling galaxy, colliding star, gas nebula and supermassive black hole, as it did to make fish and birds.

"Creation Science" is an industry and an agenda. They are lying. It's that simple. There's no possibility that they haven't been corrected on outright factual errors and yet they keep repeating the same nonsense. I see it all over Answers in Genesis. Lies about "space dust on the moon" or "rapid fossilisation" or the Grand Canyon. These things are easily debunked, and have been so many times.

This isn't just a matter of interpretation or worldview. The facts when viewed objectively have lead to a conclusion.

TL;DR ****, man, read a science book or something.

[Sqwak7700]

chill guys -
trying to talk sense into a religiously deluded man is like trying to play chess with a pigeon.
No matter how good your game is, the pigeon will will only knock the pieces over, crap on the board and strut around like it is victorious.

Wow, I just about crapped myself laughing at this one. This analogy is the most accurate description of religious wackos and their hissy fits I have ever heard. Thanks freightdog :ok:

And there in is the crux of the argument. You can't rationalize with someone who has the brain of a pigeon.

[Koan]

And back to the subject at hand I hate it also, especially the brutish Americans who insist on crushing my digits.

I would rather just give a bow with appropriate verbal greeting and be done with it.

[cxorcist]

Koan,

That's a great idea! Then, I don't have to worry about "crushing your (tiny) digits" or catching your bird flu. We brutes prefer you keep those lovely viruses in Asia anyhow. Handshakes are meant to show solidarity. It's obvious we don't have much of that as a crew these days.

Cheers!

[Threethirty]

Has science proven yet that God doesn't exist? The answer is no. Will it ever, highly doubtful. For if they ever claim to have proof that God doesn't exist then they have in-fact made themselves God and thus have become a living personification of all that science has tried to destroy. This is the essence of the problem, the non-believers are using science as a weapon not as it should which is in harmony with spirituality, the irony of this is that in the end Science itself becomes a religion and the cold men and women at the helm lead by ego and a desperate materialism attempt to destroy what for most people is a belief born out of pure faith and a longing for something better. Science on the other hand lays out the cards coldly on the table and basically says expect nothing. I know which I'd prefer!

[fly123456]

an honest question for you believers.

Imagine you were born in another family, in another country.
A muslim family, for example.

Do you really think that you would have believed in the same God as you do now?

Don' t you think that your religious view is only a reflect of your education?

Do you believe in Adam, Eve, the evil snake? Do you refute evidences that men evolved from apes?
Do you just believe in a god, or do you believe in all the stories that come with?

I can see why people want to believe. Life after death, creation of the universe, etc... all impossible to prove one way or the other. But some stories from the bible don't hold any sense!

(I know, it's more than one question, but still...)

[boocs]

Can't believe you actually shake hands!

b.

[Booger]

+1 for the pigeon analogy!!

Christ on a trike, I don't care what fairy tales you believe in, that sh!t is funny !!

:D

PS. Concur - stop it with the wet cuttlefish handshakes already.

[Flyer jazz]

Other than sticky hand cream, ...Especially those with hello kitty sequins glued onto their nails too. Disgusting! :eek: :}

[screwballburling]

If we stopped shaking hands, it would make the knuckle crunching masonic hand shake redundant, would it not??? Goodness me, that could only be for the good.

[FlexibleResponse]

A handshake has been traditionally a sign of establishing a bond, trust, friendship and agreement.

I would feel somewhat worried if a crewmember was reluctant to shake hands prior to carrying out a mission...

[nick murry]

Chopper says : "Harden the f&$k up"

[betpump5]

Swire Princes to the left of me, Pilot Princesses to the right here I am stuck in the middle with you.

From an early age, I was taught to extend my hand to people I meet. Apparently it is called manners. Something I am teaching my 7 year old. I am also teaching him to make sure he washes his hands before he eats.

Guys don't go on about hygiene. How many of us have had a quick scratch of the sweaty arse crack/ testicular area, or a quick pick of a nose and then shook the hands of someone- whether it be in work or out of work?

Nothing to moan about these days so we rely on the trivial things like handshakes? Sign of things getting better at CX???:}

[H21SE]

NFL Funny Chest Bump - YouTube

[Liam Gallagher]

"Guys don't go on about hygiene. How many of us have had a quick scratch of the sweaty arse crack/ testicular area, or a quick pick of a nose and then shook the hands of someone- whether it be in work or out of work?"

Are you teaching your 7-year old all that as well? And you want me to shake your hand?:p

[Flyer jazz]

I assume any celebrity will bond with their fans instantly after a grand handshake event. :D

[arse]

A long, long time ago, ... in a different company from today, ... it was written in the cabin crew procedures manual (was it the Vol 5?), that; until cabin crew had formally introduced themselves to cockpit crew, they needed to address them (us) as "Sir". There were no "Madams", ... as it were!. After introducing themselves, they could then use first names!

With the passing of time, this "procedure" has evolved into the handshake tradition we have today.

There is almost always an explanation.

Cheers

PS: One more fan for the pigeon analogy!

[ASH1111]

Fly123456

Sorry for the delay to your questions. Not trying to shirk duty here, but instead of giving you a glass of water, here's the well.


Bible Questions Answered (http://www.gotquestions.org)


Drink up, it's all there.

[Booger]

Great website, thanks Ash!

Thanks to you I now have the justification to put to death my neighbour for wearing clothes made of two different materials ( cotton polyester mix... the filthy heathen).
Leviticus 19:19.

If only more people were aware of this great resource available to them.

Praise Jeebus!
( Cue the pigeon)

[Koan]

cxorist,

To avoid any unintended negative insinuation I should have said "my brutish
fellow Americans". Some of our guys lift weights like five days a week, and I'm yoga and tofu type. I do have a technique to deal with the real offenders.
Give 'em the limp fish and take the pain. Then they never crush my hand again. Of course handshakes are a social norm I can deal with, I just wish we could all wai each other instead. I once sniffled my way through a SIM with a little scratchy voice. After the debrief when extending my hand to the instructor I was impressed he initiated a street style elbow-bump instead. He admitted he did not want whatever hit me.

[Frogman1484]

Ahhh...Just shake their hand and give them a slap on the ass...good CRM!!!:cool:

[bogie30]

We could of course rub our noses together, it would look odd but would surely be a CRM ice breaker.

Another pigeon fan!

[Flyer jazz]

Not sure if I want to get near any Hong Kong Mcdonalds chicken wings...

Perhaps a traditional tribal dance demonstrating strength and bravery (on top of the uniform in red which means good luck and prosperity in chinese culture);
or press your sticky hand-creamed palms together for a Sawadeka greeting. What about this :} ->

All Blacks Haka vs Fiji Cibi - July 2011 - YouTube

[giggerty]

Thought I would reproduce the classic letter from the net many years ago. Just goes to show you how relevant an ancient document can be in today's society.

Dear Dr. Laura,

Thank you for doing so much to educate people regarding God's Law. I have learned a great deal from your show, and I try to share that knowledge with as many people as I can. When someone tries to defend the homosexual lifestyle, for example, I simply remind him that Leviticus 18:22 clearly states it to be an abomination. End of debate.

I do need some advice from you, however, regarding some of the specific laws and how to best follow them.

a) When I burn a bull on the altar as a sacrifice, I know it creates a pleasing odor for the Lord (Lev 1:9). The problem is my neighbors. They claim the odor is not pleasing to them. Should I smite them?

b) I would like to sell my daughter into slavery, as sanctioned in Exodus 21:7. In this day and age, what do you think would be a fair price for her?

c) I know that I am allowed no contact with a woman while she is in her period of menstrual uncleanliness (Lev 15:19-24). The problem is, how do I tell? I have tried asking, but most women take offense.

d) Lev. 25:44 states that I may indeed possess slaves, both male and female, provided they are purchased from neighboring nations. A friend of mine claims that this applies to Mexicans, but not Canadians. Can you clarify? Why can't I own Canadians?

e) I have a neighbor who insists on working on the Sabbath. Exodus 35:2 clearly states he should be put to death. Am I morally obligated to kill him myself?

f) A friend of mine feels that even though eating shellfish is an Abomination (Lev 11:10), it is a lesser abomination than homosexuality. I don't agree. Can you settle this?

g) Lev 21:20 states that I may not approach the altar of God if I have a defect in my sight. I have to admit that I wear reading glasses. Does my vision have to be 20/20, or is there some wiggle room here?

h) Most of my male friends get their hair trimmed, including the hair around their temples, even though this is expressly forbidden by Lev 19:27. How should they die?

i) I know from Lev 11:6-8 that touching the skin of a dead pig makes me unclean, but may I still play football if I wear gloves?

j) My uncle has a farm. He violates Lev 19:19 by planting two different crops in the same field, as does his wife by wearing garments made of two different kinds of thread (cotton/polyester blend). He also tends to curse and blaspheme a lot. Is it really necessary that we go to all the trouble of getting the whole town together to stone them? (Lev 24:10-16) Couldn't we just burn them to death at a private family affair like we do with people who sleep with their in-laws? (Lev. 20:14)

I know you have studied these things extensively, so I am confident you can help.

Thank you again for reminding us that God's word is eternal and unchanging.

Your devoted disciple and adoring fan.

Add me to the pigeon fan club

[slickrick]

A wise old aviator once told me that through my flying career I'd find that other pilots will fall into one of two groups.

"Alcoholic's" or "God Botherer's".

And as much as its a generalisation.
God its true.:)

[Threethirty]

Can't we be both?

[Sqwak7700]

Giggerty that was great.

I love watching people trying to rationalize the irrational. It is quite amusing, almost as much as watching pigeons play chess.

:}

[ByAirMail]

giggerty, and thats only some of it. Thank you ASH 1111 that site just taught me that a bat is a bird according to Lev 13:19 me infidel teachers taught me to believe it's a mammal. Deut 23:24-25, interesting that a rape victim must marry her rapist. Deut 28: 45-57, you will be forced to canabilized your children..... And my favorite, if you are not a virgin at your wedding, you shall be stoned to death.
Deut. 22:13-21

"If any man takes a wife and goes in to her and then turns against her, 14 and charges her with shameful deeds and publicly defames her, and says, ‘I took this woman, but when I came near her, I did not find her a virgin,’ 15 then the girl’s father and her mother shall take and bring out the evidence of the girl’s virginity to the elders of the city at the gate. 16 "And the girl’s father shall say to the elders, ‘I gave my daughter to this man for a wife, but he turned against her; 17 and behold, he has charged her with shameful deeds, saying, "I did not find your daughter a virgin." But this is the evidence of my daughter’s virginity.’ And they shall spread the garment before the elders of the city. 18 "So the elders of that city shall take the man and chastise him, 19 and they shall fine him a hundred shekels of silver and give it to the girl’s father, because he publicly defamed a virgin of Israel. And she shall remain his wife; he cannot divorce her all his days. 20 "But if this charge is true, that the girl was not found a virgin, 21 then they shall bring out the girl to the doorway of her father’s house, and the men of her city shall stone her to death because she has committed an act of folly in Israel, by playing the harlot in her father’s house; thus you shall purge the evil from among you,"

[VR-HFX]

Always wear gloves...there's a ready supply in the forward galley:cool: