Thomas Cook morale.

[The Grey Man]

Flipping Heck what's happened here? Have things gone a bit south ?:\

[BIGBAD]

Change the title of this thread to ************ morale, substitute the name of the airline you work for !!!!

[fantom]

If you are TCX, why is this (pointless) post not in the TCX private forum?

Perhaps you are just a ****-stirrer.

[Jonty]

I didn't think it was too bad actually. Could be worse, but then I'm at an outstation.

[It's only Me]

I am happy, what's the problem?

[THRILLSEEKER]

easyJet morale .... :*

[Easy Glider]

"It's Only Me" I'm curious, you have just had your salary cut by 3%, no pay rise since god knows when, increment freeze, block window protection reduced, days off in the winter months reduced, countless redundancies, demotions and forced base moves to name a few, Yet you're still happy........what's your secret? If you could bottle it and sell it, you'd make a fortune.

[It's only Me]

Easy Glider.

If you had taken time to think, you have just done what my post tried to avoid. I was trying to kill the thread.

[Bernoulli]

Hey You,

Why would you want to kill the thread? It's not a happy story I agree, but it does hilight the truth of the situation.

[bacp]

And since it was all democratically voted for we should have no complaint at all! The turkeys:ugh: voted Christmas in a bit early this year.

[Jonty]

Sorry EG thats complete :mad:.

You would have had a pay rise in the last 12 months. And a far more substantial one only 2 years ago. Redundancies can be counted on your fingers and toes.

We have had a 3% pay reduction but compared to many in the out side world thats nothing.

Me thinks you need a reality check.

[Easy Glider]

Jonty..... so just confirm, there has been no increment freeze? no demotions? your block window protection has not been reduced? days off not reduced during the winter? Did I just imagine all this??? Oh and that pay reduction is anything from 3% to 30% depending on seat/rank/length of service etc. The generally accepted view across the spectrum is that it will work out to be an
approx. 20% reduction on average.

By the way, another nine ac leases are up for renewal next year. What will you have to give up/sacrifice in order for the company to keep them????? Answers on a post card please.

[Easy Glider]

oh and bacp..... You are absolutely right. As usual the company laid on the scare tactics thick and fast and guess what......BALPA blinked first as usual. Absolutely no surprise there. What's also not surprising is that as usual, pilots, (who are our own worst enemies,) seem to be completely lacking and need to grow a set!! Caving into company scare mongering and blindly following what a basically defunct union has to say is a one way ticket to poverty.

[Bernoulli]

One small point Easy (actuall a major point).... BALPA didn't blink, 62% of your colleagues blinked. I assume that you're in our professional association so you'll be aware of that number. Those who ar not members have elected to remain mute and have no say in matters.

[Easy Glider]

Burnoulli......What did BALPA recommend the pilots do?????? Enough said!!


P.S They are actually not my colleagues and I am not in that association.

[gorter]

Burnoulli......What did BALPA recommend the pilots do?????? Enough said!!


P.S They are actually not my colleagues and I am not in that association.

Well the company want to negotiate with Balpa and not some random standalone group. If that really grinds your gears, why don't you join Balpa and stand for being a rep. Balpa makes no decisions on your behalf. Your company council does.

If you're not one of the voters you have no say, and if you are one of the voters but are not willing to stand to mould the council, well that's someone else's fault too.

And if you search my previous posts you can easily see I'm a Balpa supporter. However I don't blame Balpa for issues within my company. I became a rep and worked on those issues (many of which are still unresolved but that is just as much my fault as it is my colleagues) Balpa just provided me with some tools to piss further out the tent.

[Easy Glider]

Was a BALPA member for 16 years. Got sick of contributing to Slippy Jimmys gold plated pension pot with very little to show for it

[DooblerChina]

What has BALPA got to do with it? TCX has been ruined my cr*p management. Good luck to those involved.

[gorter]

Was a BALPA member for 16 years. Got sick of contributing to Slippy Jimmys gold plated pension pot with very little to show for it

Did you ever stand to be a rep?

[bacp]

EG, the cc recommendation was by majority, not unanimous. It was unclear until after the event how acrimonious that recommendation was. The cc were in a horrible position between an intransigent management and a workforce with too much vested self interest to grow a substantial backbone. The fact that the vote was close can be read as a signal that the pilots have gone as far as they willing to go. Any further nibbling at us will finally be met with resistance. It is appalling that we have given so much away and the next generation of TC pilots should feel aggrieved at what we signed away on their behalf. But, at least there is now likely to be a new generation of TC pilots as the airline continues to exist. Going forward, morale will increase with job security and hopefully expansion, which will allow a steady trickle of those displaced and demoted to be returned to their former positions. Gonna be a long job though.

[deepknight]

As one of those with too much self-interest and no backbone, might I offer a slightly less emotional view: the 62% (I'd call that clear rather than close) were voting for a group-wide restructuring plan that has taken TCX from near bankruptcy to what appears to be recovery. I don't know anyone who actually liked what they were being asked to support, but no one was going to go on strike with the company's future in the balance, were they? Perhaps all those eager young wannabes who've signed huge cheques to get themselves into the right seat of shiny 320 on one-sided contracts might like to reflect that the reason the TCX guys were asked to take the hit was to make themselves competitive with the likes of - you guessed it - easyJet and Ryanair. Welcome to your future.

[Narrow Runway]

Perhaps the truth lies closer to the fact that rather than blaming Lemming like cadets, the Thomas Cook group (and the airline) has been a turgid, stodgy mess for a good decade or so.

After 9/11 the rot set in. The pilots accepted a good shafting then and indeed new Captain contracts were forced through allowing for demotion - unlike anyone promoted prior to 9/11.

That charmer, El Borai, neatly drove a wedge between pilot groups there and then.

That was the moment things started changing in the airline.

Pathetic seat only attempts to "compete" with easy or Ryan followed, despite the fact that the seats were wildly expensive. And hence of no significance in sale volumes.

On the tour Ops front, the most unfriendly website experience of all time - which actually sold more competitor products than TCG products......

A merger with the remains of the Airtours/MyTravel combined neatly with an expansion into high street shops.....just as the recession took hold and high streets died nationwide.

Need I say more?

But, to add to this, long haul "scheduled" services to compete with BA,AA,VIRGIN etc are to commence to margin sensitive destinations such as MCO.

The cadets had absolutely nothing to do with your lamentable situation. Face it, the group was a disaster until Harriet Green arrived. Hopefully she will rebuild it.

I left TCX in 2006, as I couldn't see a future there. That was in 2006.

Is the future brighter today?

[763 jock]

Well hopefully, yes. This is about an hour old.

Thomas Cook: Investors Back £400m Fundraising (http://news.sky.com/story/1091440/thomas-cook-investors-back-400m-fundraising)

[Narrow Runway]

Yes indeed, let us hope so.

The mistakes of the past led to this fundraising and this fundraising itself is the very essence of survival, or not as a business and public company.

Hopefully you will move forward in good health.

[DooblerChina]

May I ask what the agreement was between the pilots and the company and also what the company plans are for the airline.

Just interested....

[MANTHRUST]

Harriet's morale should be pretty good tonight!

[deepknight]

And she's entitled. Who else in the travel industry could have turned such a basket case back into a fighting entity? Two hundred mil market cap back into well over a billion? Anyone else here like to step up for that?

[fantom]

Good innit? Wish I had bought @ 12p.

Buggah.

[The Grey Man]

From what I understand from people in the know whom work here the reason for the turn around success is down to,Harriet Green and Christoph Debus. If that is the case then well done.

[bacp]

Deepknight, a lot of what you say is also true, just the other side of the argument for promoting self preservation. I could have said the same myself, but feel we could have fought a bit harder.
A lot of what is said about TC and TCX confuses the problems of the airline with the much bigger problems of the group. Post merger with MYT, TC had a 100million in the bank and M F_N pi##ed it up against a wall. Bad group management caused the downfall of TC.
Now, (hopefully) good group management is picking up the pieces and everyone is expected to suffer a little/lot to make HG dream come true. The TC shareprice seems to operate in line with the 'bootstrap' system in that it has nothing other than itself lifting it higher. Let us hope the bootstraps don't snap.
You can argue til the cows come home whether the few million saved by cutting pilot T&Cs really saved the airline, we will never know as the vote (62% 48% is no way a clear cut majority with the number of voters involved) went for the safe option. We still need to grow some backbone as there is a fair chance that having faced us down once, they will be back for more at some time in the future. Maybe they tried already with a almost un-noticed change to redundancy policy or maybe that just an administrative oversight?
We are where we are, and we are a site better off than many, but to stay that way we have to be prepared to support our (not always perfect, but a hell of lot better than nothing) CC.

[fantom]

62% 48%

As I wrote: giving 110%.

[gatbusdriver]

Most RC's I know voted against the deal so the small number that voted yes would have very little effect on the outcome.

[DADDY-OH!]

A mate of mine was at TCX. He wasn't a Lemming or one of those 200-hr Cadets on self-induced crappy T&C's CONtracts. He was a very experienced SFO with around 7,500 hours, 5,000+ on B757/767's operated all over the world, literally, 20 years service to give to an employer & a young family to feed.
He told me of his dismay when on a long night duty down to the Eastern Med' & back, he was flying with a Captain who was retiring from TCX before this current Summer season (2013) ends, but had taken one of the limited number of A320 Type Ratings on offer IN STRICT SENIORITY ORDER to the upper echelon of the TCX Pilots.
If that pilot reads this and it strikes a chord that you may be the person my friend flew with, I'd just like to ask how you can sleep at night? You have probably had a career with TCX going back almost 30 years to Airtours or Flying Colours, probably on top of an Armed Forces pension, which begs the question, don't you have enough money already? Isn't your pension's coffers swollen & pot overflowing already without having to grab a gift of a provision that would serve someone better who is still paying off huge training debts or building themselves a career & financial future for his or her family? If this 'Divine Right' to a career enhancing redundancy provision is limited to those who have amassed their fortunes & are in the twilight of heir careers, then who in God's name brokered THAT deal?
Your greed & "I'm alright, Jack!" attitude is odious. Probably as odious as the air in your flight deck. I hope you enjoy your retirement, happy in the knowledge that you & your kind & your common greed has :mad: everything up for the rest of us.
Now up your ladder you go. Just don't forget to pull it up after you.

[The Grey Man]

A friend of mine whom is on the airbus here reckons with the amount of overtime he is doing here he will be able to pay a large chunk off his mortgage. Not bad hey!:D

[schooner]

Is he a part-timer?

[The Grey Man]

Yes. He says he can pick and choose when he wants to work and earns more than when he was full time!:ugh:
I think something is amiss.

[gatbusdriver]

I believe this is a short term problem due to training issues after the reshuffle, but then again, last year we were sold a crock of ***** with regards numbers and so called pinch points during the Summer.

There is no doubt you can make a few bob on the bus if you were so inclined.

[schooner]

It is rather annoying isn't it? I understand in BA and TOM you aren't allowed to work on your part time days off. Shame we don't have this policy, would spread the love a bit more evenly wouldn't it?

[deepknight]

Can we rein in the hysteria a little, guys? The picture of rampant, rabid back-stabbing is not one I recognise in the slightest.
1) There was no offer of Airbus ratings to the "top echelon" of senior pilots. There was a bidding system for base, type and rank that was done in order of seniority. Yes, the process was very badly handled by management, but every one who placed a bid did so for their own ends, that's what bids are for. I know of at least one pilot who can count his seniority in two digits who didn't get his first bid.
2) The idea that all TCX pilots can make huge sums in overtime on the backs of their colleagues is nonsense. There are some instances when training/extra work etc causes peaks in overtime available. Some people will take it because they're greedy, some because they need the money, and some won't take it at all either because of ethics or they prefer the time off. There are a few guys who'll grab what they can and to hell with everyone else, but that's not confined to TCX, is it?
3)The overtime scheme is part of the pilots' agreement with management. For the BALPA CC to even open a discussion on it can leave them open to an attack from the company for inciting industrial action without holding a ballot.
Finally, AmericaFyeah, I'm guessing from your username that your're from across the pond where, as I understand it, the concept of democracy is right up there with God and apple pie. 62% in any ballot is a CLEAR majority. You can argue all you like about the size of the ballot, but if members of the workforce choose not to sign up to the negotiating body, you can't blame those who did if you don't like the result.

[schooner]

Actually I believe he does work for us, think I know who it is too!

[schooner]

And he's deleted his posts, wonder why....

[DooblerChina]

TOM: Part timers can not work on there off days unless in extenuating circumstances which so far since the merger I haven't heard of once. If they do work, they are paid 1/365th salary per day. Definitely not at the overtime rate.

Just in case any ones interested...

[SusanBoyle]

Just seen this. I can confirm that this is the case for Thomson. Why would you guys let someone do overtime on part time? Doesn't that see everyone else off???

[The Grey Man]

A pal of mine was talking to a cabin crew member who had been there since year dot, decided to take twenty odd grand in redundancy and because someone got their figures wrong for the summer.The company has asked them back for the summer! :D How can you get it so wrong? So glad this place doesn't run my company.