Ripping Yarns : Banner Target Fun

[CoffmanStarter]

With so much depressing news around at the moment ... NK, Syria, Service Personnel/Budget cuts and the Great Unwashed now encamped at RAF Waddington etc. ... I thought a little thread to give a few of you the excuse to share ripping yarns on Air to Air Gunnery Fun-n-Games might just bring a few smiles to some faces.

I don't think we've had a thread like this ... I was prompted inpart by seeing an old photo of a Meteor chasing a Banner which reminded me of a few stories told to me by a very good friend (sadly no longer with us) when he flew with 500 Squadron in the 50's flying the Meteor F4 out of RAF West Malling ... he also flew the Beaufighter during the latter stages of WW II ...

Banner cables being completely sliced off ... Tug Pilots "colourful" RT language ... a few pictures would be good ... and no doubt the WIWOL community will pitch up with their input :ok:

I had a hunt around to try a find a pic to get us started ... sadly I don't have any of my own ... but I did find this lurking in a book I won as a school prize :eek:

http://i1004.photobucket.com/albums/af162/CoffmanStarter/ECStudentFinance_zps536df247.jpg

S/L George Lee (R) and F/L Pete Gray (L) from 43 Squadron along with mascot P/O Alcock ... early/mid 70's I think ... Phantom Gat v Banner (the banner is just visible in the back ground)

Courtney ... I'm not sure if these guys pre-dated you on 43 ?

Let's keep it to Gunnery ... no Missile stuff FTB ...

Looking forward to it ...

Best ...

Coff.

[Courtney Mil]

Pete was my first nav on 29 Sqn. I have some gunnery tales, one including young Peter. Have to wait uuntil the morning. Great idea for a thread. :ok:

[Lima Juliet]

I remember well the change from the Canberra to the Hawk...

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2010/09/29/article-0-0B6632DA000005DC-545_634x286.jpg

:ok:

[BOAC]

My favourite from Chivenor days as we young eagles tried to hack the banner to pieces with our coloured rounds, and inevitably the odd pipper drifted in front of the banner

Meteor pilot
"Tell him I'm towing the ****ing banner, not pushing it"

AtoA in the Lightning was such a rare event I have no stories:{

[effortless]

Wot, they got rid of the Martinet? Sic transit!

[longer ron]

Nice to see you starting the thread with a glider pilot anyway :)

[Tim Mills]

APC Acklington back in those days, second pair on the flag, I was the lucky fellow to shoot the flag off. The first pair was Wing Leader and Squadron boss!
Was I hero or villain? To them villain because they had obviously both scored hugely, I think I may have saved them some embarrassment, so obviously a hero!

[CoffmanStarter]

Bloody hell Leon have budget cuts gone that far :}

[AGS Man]

I think it was in 1987 that Jaguars did some target towing at Akrotiri. One managed to engage the RHAG with his banner. There was colourful language alright, from us who had to change the cable and tapes

[CoffmanStarter]

Wot, they got rid of the Martinet ...

Effortless ... How old are you :eek:

[18greens]

Could someone explain how target towing works. The real question i would like answering is how do you hit the banner without hitting the tug, is it only crossing attacks or is the cable 2 miles long. Surely the brave chap in the tug must have had a few close moments.

[Courtney Mil]

Again, Puddy Cat towing the banner at Chivenor in Winston. Middle Eastern student was on his first solo shoot and had managed to select RP on the gunsight, making "very sloppy", not to mention rather difficult to track the banner with. It also meant massively too much lead. The first thing Puddy was aware of was rounds coming over his Winston's wings prompting another of his classic RT calls, "F&*K %FF!!!"

[26er]

1955 - Tangmere - Meteor F8. On the squadrons we always did our own "banner party" consisting of three pilots, one driving the landrover and the others helping with laying out the banners etc. So this brave aviator waited about 150 yds along the runway from the threshold. Landrover arrives from airfield having recovered previous banner, pulling towline beside runway. By this time there were a couple of others laid out there. Having left the front end of the towline with me they then drove back to the threshold side paying out the line as they went and parked. Meteor tug arrives and halts on my signal whereupon I take the tow rope and attach it to the aircraft, look back to see the others lay the banner on the runway, give me the thumbs up, and get back into the vehicle. I then signal to the Meteor to move forward to take up slack when notice the landrover begining to move backwards, the doors fly open and the two guys leap out and run away. The banner stayed firmly in place on the runway. Oops ! Wrong towline connected to aircraft. Oh, how we laughed!

In a later life met and flew with brave aviator whose claim to fame, or should that be notoriety, was to have concentrated so much on the flag at Sylt that he shot it off and in doing so also hit the Tempest tug, whose enraged middle european hairy pilot managed to dead stick it on the beach, threatening to murder said young pilot officer. He couldn't be trusted with a BAC 1-11 either.

[60024]

I towed a banner with a Jag (it was attached to the brake chute attachment point) at Lossie a couple of times for the QWI cse. IIRC once airborne we'd slow down and drop Full Flap for the rest of the sortie to stay below the weak link's break speed. You didn't want to see the top surfaces of the shooters disappear:eek:

[Fox3WheresMyBanana]

18greens - the tug flies in circles

[Courtney Mil]

18 Greens,

There are a number of foul lines, the most important for the tug is minimum angle off - i.e. you're shooting at the banner from the side, not from behind looking up the line of the strop. As Fox3 says, the tug flies a constant rate turn and the shooter is attacking the banner from the inside of the circle.

And yes, the piece of string is quite long too.

[blimey]

God, I'd forgotten what arse clenching fun that was: relax, track, track, track, now how big is that pipper relative to the bar, squeeze, oh ****, roll and pull up and over. And breathe.......

Back to the crewroom, unfurl the flag, hunt (often in vain) for some tiny streak of colour.

'Couldn't hit a cow's backside with a banjo' springs to mind. :)

[Rocket2]

I was SAC Plonk making up & attaching banners at Brawdy (as well as helping look after Sir Winston & Lady Clementine) in the mid 1970's when the Phantom detachment visited to do their bit off Hartland Point. Most flags arrived back untouched but a couple were totally shredded, always by one Sqn Ldr G. Lee.
Puddy also took a bullet through the rudder of Clementine before I left for Halton, a flight that I should have been on but my TAG went sick so had to go out to the runway for the launch & (later) recovery.
Would be interesting to know how many runway lights were obliterated by errant flags, well remember watching in horror as a wheel came off a flag at mega knots & started bouncing towards the aircraft parked on the VAAS pan & ATC, thankfully a well placed divot sent it carrering into the bondu to the north - cue one lengthy incident report & change of overalls :uhoh:

[Tigger_Too]

It didn't help to be reminded that the flag was roughly the size of a barn door!:{

[BEagle]

Air-to-air gunnery really was the sport of true fighter pilots, rather than the air-to-mud antics of lesser beings who lurk schniebling in the weedisphere.

TWU at RAF Brawdy in 1976 was my first taste of this fun. Get airborne, sort out the GGS camera mags and off to Hartland to find Puddy in his Meatbox. Get set up, do a dry ciné pass, then sit up on the perch above and abeam the Meteor. Looks good...call “In Hot”...tip in... reverse to track the flag. Wrist out and hope the radar ranging takes over...yup, range drum moving...tracking like a god...angle off looks OK...in range...squeeze tit and “BRRRAP” from the mighty Aden with satisfying cordite smell. Cease fire...wrist in/out/in...stick top safe...break up and over the flag and up to the waiting position on the other side whilst your mate starts his run....

...and breathe!

Back to Brawdy after firing out, then a nervous wait for Puddy to come back with the flag still attached. Watch him drop, then accelerate and hurtle out to initial and back in a cloud of compressibility and a satsifying blue note. Count your holes, then survive the ciné room debrief.

Utterly great. It wasn’t as much fun on the Hawk though - no radar ranging, no smell of cordite and a circular tow pattern which seemed very odd after the straight tow we did at Brawdy. Neither could you hitch a back seat ride in ‘Clementine’, savour the delights of a bygone era and watch your chums shooting at you...

One problem at Brawdy was shipping intruding into Hartland range. I recall Puddy storming into the building one day fulminating about “The ruddy Navy! One of their wretched boats was in the range and wouldn’t go away. But I’ve got his number!”. He had indeed - it turned out to be HMS Bronington, commanded by Prince Charles! We wondered whether Puddy would put up a ‘By Royal Appointment’ sign over his desk.

Onto the F-4 with the SUU-23. This time we shot at the flag towed by a 100 Sqn Canberra. Some anxiety getting your shoots in after your first qualifier, but I see that on 16 Aug 1982 I managed 50.2% on my ‘ACE’ (not ‘ace’, I assure you!) qualification sortie. The second trip that day was rather interesting though as I experienced the “It never happens...” phenomenon of the runaway gun. I'd fired and released the tit, but the gun kept going and had fired out my entire sortie’s allocation of rounds before I could deselect the centre station selector. My colleague in the other jet said it looked rather interesting to note the massive shimmer of brass behind me from the spent cases - he'd been about to call “STOP!!!” when I'd announced the runaway...

Yes, true sport of the supreme knights of the azure.

Sadly though, I guess that nowadays it’s a thing of the past and all weaponeering is done in some horrid simulator instead....... Which simply isn’t the same.

[orca]

I remember four of us in the pattern off Gibraltar, for once doing a great job of keeping everything tight including the R/T. Watching the Med collect hundreds of 30mm rounds and wondering whether or not any of them had passed through the banner en route to the og-splosh! Banner took a fair amount of pain but, errrr, not a massive percentage as I recall.

Great fun.

(No idea why we were in Gib. Had my first go in those Danger Areas around Lundy that disappeared in 2004 or thereabouts.)

[effortless]

Quote:
Wot, they got rid of the Martinet ...
Effortless ... How old are you


Pa pranged one.

[Pom Pax]

When I was at 2ANS Thorney Island we were inbound from Bembridge on a BABS approach when a torrent of verbal abuse erupted from the Gentlemen in the front. It seems a banner had just passed in front of them, they claim 200 feet in front at our level. Eastney range was supposed to be cleared when T.I. had aircraft inbound from the Isle of Wight.

[Bigpants]

A talented and enthusastic young pilot hosed the flag off Akrotiri...

Hit the spreader bar and detached the lead weight which entered the intake of his Lightning Mk6...

Mr Avon emitted a loud bang, spat some blades out which fragged the upstairs engine and soldiered briefly on...

Said pilot started an approach to Akrotiri with little power and much noise when the engine gave up and he ejected safely.

The Lightning planted itself in the dirt and stopped just short of a well favoured Kebab Shack...

No one was badly hurt in the making of this war story...

[Geehovah]

The Phantom commentary from the back as, with a radar lock, the LCOSS was uncaged:

"Release, Ready, Fire, Break"

One famous Op Shoot:

Release, Ready, Fire, Break ........ Brrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrpppppppppppp .... bbbbbrrrrpppp ... pppp from the Su23.

Time to go home then!

[Riksbar]

Wot, they got rid of the Martinet ...
Effortless ... How old are you


just looked up the Miles Martinet, a single role target tug, and they built over 1700 of them! Those were the days.

[Al R]

Big pants,

I nearly was!

[Canadian Break]

Mr Chan 1: Goat 0 I seem to recall!

[brokenlink]

Recall a tale about Sylt in the 1950's by a friend (sadly no longer with us). Mike was on detail as the recovery for the target which was dropped by the Meteor F8. Fortunately for him the mornings tea had worked its magic and he was out of his nice shiny new rag top Landie attending to a call of nature when the Meteor duly appears and drops the banner. Trouble is the pilot forgot to allow for drift on the way down on this occasion with the upshot that the draw bar went smack through the canvas roof of said new toy and just about wrote it off. MT Chiefy was not, apparently, best impressed!

[Ali Barber]

The Lightning camera was in the intake so, instead of seeing what the gunsight showed, you interpreted the film from where the pitot tube was. One Sqn boss had us looking at his film trying to figure out what he'd done wrong as the whole pitot tube/Canberra/banner picture was so wrong. Turned out he'd blown the approach and was attacking from outside the circle! Having had a ride on the Canberra jump seat getting shot at, you could hear the difference in angle off and I'm guessing that was a noisy sortie!

[N2erk]

UK A2A gunnery area, early F4 days. Pilot-with-godlike-tracking (definitely not me) attacks flag. Flag is duly dropped, hits counted, said pilot gets 18 hits!!:ooh:- far more than anyone else. Amazing good news- he fired only 30 rounds before the gun jammed- score of 60%.:ok: Bad news- rules said you had to fire minimum 100 rounds for the score to count!:(:(

[AGS Man]

I remember the Lightning at Akrotiri very well. XR763 from 5 Sqn on 1-Jul-87. IIRC it was the last 5 Sqn APC in Lightnings and down at Golf dispersal was a big board saying 5 Sqn, the last big bang. It sure was!!!

[Al R]

It wasn't a very big bang - it whistled over my head (I never knew Lightning was low level) but that one sure was a frightening Lightning.

[CoffmanStarter]

This is classic stuff Gents ... BEagle calls it about right I think ... "The Sport of true Fighter Pilots" ... must have been :D

Just love the R/T call mentioned by BOAC ...

"Tell him I'm towing the ****ing banner, not pushing it"

OK Courtney let's have the 29 Squadron Courtney/Gray story then :ok:

Then we'll have to see if we can tempt a few Tuggers to regale us with a few stories ... there must be few Canberra TT18 (of which there were I believe some original 23 B2 conversions) crew still around ... assuming they've still got their tails intact :eek:

Coff.

[BEagle]

'Young' Pete later became the boss of the RAF's premier AAR squadron - and gave me more of the inside information regarding 'The Night of the Pink Rabbit' at CGY....:E

Canberra tales?

'Skipper' and 'The Whale', perhaps.......:eek:

I say nothing.....:oh:

[Courtney Mil]

Well, actually, Coff, BEags has beaten me to it, well, one of them. Mine was also a runaway gun, but it turned out to be very hard to prove that it wasn't a pilot's sticky finger. First problem was that I'd been firing really short bursts and Pete had commented that he wasn't getting enough entertainment for all his rather good radar work. So, on said occasion, just before our first live pass I said, "I'm going to get some serious rounds out now."

"Release, standby, fire.." Brrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr "recover" rrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr "stop firing" rrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr "Courtney!" rrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr etc.

"It wasn't me, honest"

RTB to be met by the QWI. Film debrief showed the trigger press flag continuously indicating a that the trigger was pressed and not released. So it was clearly my fault so I was duly kicked and fined lots of beer.

It was a couple of days later that an engineer told me it was the trigger mechanism, not the gun that had broken. Yet another occasion when Fg Off Courtney was unjustly blamed for everything that ever went wrong.

[Warmtoast]

My very first flight in a Meatbox was in 41 Sqn's T.7 at Biggin Hill in 1954 when I took these photos.

We took-off with the banner and flew down to the Danger Area in the channel off Worthing (I think) and stooged around the Danger area whilst shots were fired at the target. Flew back and released the banner over the runway and landed, probably about 40-50-mins in all.

As can be seen the pilot's helmet pre-dated bone-domes. The other photo shows how Biggin looked in 1954 with ops block etc. in the pre-fab type buildings which were long gone when the fairly recent c. 2005 colour shot almost from the same position was taken.

http://i145.photobucket.com/albums/r231/thawes/Biggin%20Hill%20Early%201950s/41SqnMeteorTargetTug_zpsf05f7e0b.jpg

http://i145.photobucket.com/albums/r231/thawes/Biggin%20Hill%20Early%201950s/BigginAccommodationBlocks.jpg

http://i145.photobucket.com/albums/r231/thawes/Biggin%20Hill%20Early%201950s/BigginBlocks2005.jpg

[Ivor Fynn]

Blimey!!I haven't heard "The Whale" mentioned for some years. As a mere mud mover who only did Air to Air at Chiv and it was I hasten to add - the sport of kings. The story I'm sure will get mentioned would be The Whale jettisoning the winch instead of cutting the wire?

Ivor

[BEagle]

The 'Whale Songs' exchanged over RT as Tatty Ton swapped jets must have baffled European ATC!!

Did 'Skipper' really take it flying at Akronelli...:eek: ??

[Windy Militant]

Slight thread drift
"Tell him I'm towing the ****ing banner, not pushing it"
The above made me think of the stories I heard as an apprentice at Aberporth about a tug hitting it's own rushton target drogue. Was it true or were they just winding up the gullible sprogs! :}

[Lightning Mate]

I towed a banner with a Jag (it was attached to the brake chute attachment
point) at Lossie a couple of times for the QWI cse. IIRC once airborne we'd slow
down and drop Full Flap for the rest of the sortie to stay below the weak link's
break speed.

I did too, and also had a few shoots. The overtake was phenomenal and breakout was earlier than in most jets. The Jaguar was not designed for air-to-air I can tell you!

[Dan Winterland]

Did some passenger flying in gliders for the aircrew association once. I took a WW2 fighter chap flying who had been wounded in combat and subsequently downgraded to 'non combatant stautus' or suchlike while he was convalescing. He was however allowed to keep flying and was posted to a unit doing target towing - which he and his fellow ex fighter pilots found frightfully dull. So they invented various challenges for each other - one of which was arrivving back home with a knot in the cable!

[Wwyvern]

My first APC after Chivenor was on Squadron detachment to Cyprus, 1960. One of the flight commanders, H**** D*******, scored 58 hits on the flag from 50 shots fired. The extra hits were put down to rippling of the flag in the slipstream.

We also strafed and fired rockets, and raised our strafing and rocketing averages to 50% and 16 yards respectively, greatly helped by M*** T****** scoring a direct hit with each of his four rockets and M** C****** scoring 100% on an air-to-ground shoot

[CoffmanStarter]

BEagle ... I guess that some stories are best told over a pint in convivial company and surroundings ... so we better leave Skipper and The Whale :ok:

Having had a dig around I came across a piece on the InterWeb relating to Llanbedr and the wonderful machines of DERA. Thought it might be of interest to some ...

Late 90's DERA Target Resources Llanbedr (http://www.airsceneuk.org.uk/hangar/1999/dera/targets.htm)

Also some very good pics here of Llanbedr

RAF Llanbedr (http://www.flickriver.com/groups/1241063@N24/pool/interesting/)

I also found a few cracking pics of the DERA TT18 Canberra's, WH734 and WK128 proudly displaying their Ruston Winches along with the Flare and Stiletto Targets.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v147/AEROMEDIA/old%20jets/Scan81.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v147/AEROMEDIA/old%20jets/Scan80.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v147/AEROMEDIA/old%20jets/Scan128.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v147/AEROMEDIA/old%20jets/tt18under.jpg

There are also some cracking pics of former 100 and 7 Squadron Canberra's along with a couple of FRADU Canberra's.

Well done to the enthusiasts for recording these wonderful aircraft :D

Air Show Forum : Canberra Target Tugs (http://forums.airshows.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=13754&p=140571)

As an aside de we still operate the Jindivik ? ... I guess all the Meteor U15/16's will have gone ?

http://i495.photobucket.com/albums/rr320/RonnieP/JindivikA92-740Missiledamage.jpg

Looks like someone "munched" on the tail of this one :eek:

http://www.meteorflight.com/wps/meteor.nsf/survivors/wk800_landing.jpg

Llanbedr Meteor U16 WK800

Best regards ...

Coff.

[CoffmanStarter]

And for those interested ... Meteor F8 VZ467 "Winston" down-under in RAAF colours and apparently still flying ...

http://i1004.photobucket.com/albums/af162/CoffmanStarter/image_zps407ea557.jpg

[Fareastdriver]

The black and orange markings remind me of a day in the early seventies. I was just airborne from Odiham, passing North Gate, and coming the other way was a MOSQUITO. It was the final day of the target towing ones down in Cornwall somewhere and the were doing a quick tour. It had to bank to avoid running in to me and that was when I saw the striping.

[BEagle]

Fareastdriver, are you sure of the date? The last Mosquitoes were TT35s operated by No. 3 CAACU at Exeter, but they were retired in May 1963 and replaced by Meteor TT20s. I'm not sure when 3 CAACU closed, but the Meteors were still flying in the early 1970s.

Living in the West Country back then, we had a really interesting variety of aircraft flying overhead. Unlike today....:bored:

[sisemen]

Are the Martin-Baker Meteors still operating at Chalgrove?

[BEagle]

Yes.






.

[Courtney Mil]

Fg Off Courtney also got the blame for blowing up one of 29 Sqn's guns. Half way through the burst there was a very loud bang , the gun stopped instantly and a whole bunch of telelight captions (warning lights) came on. It turns out that the gun had attempted toinsert two live rounds into the same barrel - result both rounds exploded and fired bits of metal up therough the bottom of the fuselage and the underside of the wings.

How we laughed.


http://www.projectoceanvision.com/vox/images/chapter06/29sqn_slideshow/cyprus/005.jpg

[sisemen]

Jeez. You wonder how long they will keep going for. Who's the Engineering Authority for them?

[Courtney Mil]

Here's the strop that pushes the banner along.

http://www.projectoceanvision.com/vox/images/chapter06/29sqn_slideshow/cyprus/006.jpg

[CoffmanStarter]

Sisemen ...

MB Meteors "Asterix" WL419 and WA638 photo apparently taken 2011

MB Meteors (http://www.flickr.com/photos/40812808@N06/5723115344/)

Coff.

[CoffmanStarter]

Thanks for sharing your pics Courtney ... :ok:

Not good to have two up the spout at one time ... you know what I mean ... hats off to the Armours for sorting that little lot out !

Mind you ... with your second photo I almost mistook you for being put on Fire Detail :)

Coff.

[Fareastdriver]

Beagle.
That must have been RR299 with Invasions stripes on. It was a long time ago.

[ex-fast-jets]

I was holding on 79 Sqn at Chiv post Valley/pre Chiv. 79 was running a PAI course, and they had just started the air-to-air phase. Knowing nothing about anything, I tried to join in their enthusiasm at the coffee bar (my domain) following their first air-to-air shoot.

They spotted the Landrover with the banner driving towards the Sqn and rushed outside. Trying to match their enthusiasm, I joined them and stood next to the instructor running the PAI course as the banner was unfurled. It was covered in multi-coloured holes which were being happily counted by the wannabe PAI's.

Feeling the need to say something, I looked at the PAI instructor and said "Well, that's not very good, is it." He looked sideways at me, and I quickly concluded that I had said something wrong. I decided to rectify the situation, and said "I assume that they are aiming for the black circle in the centre of the banner, and there are very few holes there!"

He took me by the collar, marched me into the cineroom, and showed me an air-to-air cine film.

I then had to spend a whole lot of time clearing out the cine room.

Wonderful times!!

[Courtney Mil]

Never on Fire Detail, Coff, but I was a professional Orderly Officer for quite a lot of my first tour. So unfair!

[CoffmanStarter]

BEagle ...

Weren't the TT35s operated by No. 3 CAACU also film stars ?

http://static.guim.co.uk/sys-images/Guardian/Pix/pictures/2012/5/29/1338301946968/1964-633-SQUADRON-008.jpg

Coff.

[sisemen]

Luvverly pix Coffy. Given that the meatboxes are owned and flown by a civilian corporation it begs the question as to why they still fly with a military serial number and not a civilian G-XXXX sequence.

[Pontius]

I do recall a really pissed off Boss on one of our trips to Akrotiri. Besides being the CO of the squadron, he was an AWI and a bit of a punchy/stroppy bugger who (understandably) thought of nothing but guns and bombs and stuff. He'd spent a fair bit of time organising Dark Blue in Light Blue territory and, so, really had the bit between his teeth.

899 had gone down there to do the air-to-air gunnery phase of the training syllabus and all the students were keen to get their scores on the doors. Now, on this particular detachment, rather than the much-loved banners, Flight Refuelling had brought some new, fandangled, acoustical contraptions. It looked a bit like a fat torpedo and got towed on a bit of string attached to one of their Falcons. The idea was to shoot behind this gizmo, where the flag would normally be and this thingy could measure where the bullets went. It even had some sort of radar reflector in it so we could lock it up and get all the good gen in the HUD.

First wave got airborne consisting of a bunch of instructors and, possibly, one stude. The steely brigade had to test this new machine and prove what experts we all were (ahem). After a few dry runs in comes number one to go hot. Locks up the target, death cross about where it's about to be and rat-a-tat-tat (Adens). Splash one f*%$ing expensive acoustical target, which takes leave of its bit of string and plunges into the Med, never to be seen again.

Boss is spitting feathers and calling into question the parentage of all gathered, even those who weren't on the sortie. Lots and lots of threats made to all and sundry and woe betide anyone who does something nasty again to the one and only spare that FR have......not in Cyprus but in total.

You know what's coming but off goes wave two, this time with a high stude to instructor ratio. Same scenario with the dry runs and then comes Stude 1. Rat-a-tat-tat (still Adens) and then a scream from the FR guy, roughly translated as 'cease fire'. Left wobbling on its cable with all the aerodynamics of a not very aerodynamical thing was the torpedo with a bunch of holes in it and the FR guys wondering if they're going to be able to jettison it near the base since they can't recover it, thanks to Stude 1's peppering of the target AND buggering the towing system.

Well, the old and bolds of FR did manage to get it back to Akrotiri and, even more amazingly, Crab Air got it back to Yeovilton. And there it hung in 899's crewroom for a goodly amount of time and oft used as a conversation starter for visitors.

The Boss, needless to say, was apoplectic and stomped around in a hissy fit for days. Luckily we'd brought a couple of 2-seaters, so managed to keep ourselves 'current' by taking the Army nurses flying and enjoying the pay-backs. I think we managed to tick off a few other syllabus trips but not really what we went there for. You'll be stunned to know that we didn't get to shoot at those gizmos again :(

Now, about the RN who not only smashed the other students at Chivenor on the flag but toasted their instructors too :} Yeah, you were there Courtney (on the other squadron)

[Rocket2]

Thanks for that Pontious - toast & pate now spread over my monitor :\

[SASless]

the meatboxes are owned and flown by a civilian corporation it begs the question as to why they still fly with a military serial number and not a civilian G-XXXX sequence.


Doesn't the BBMF do the same with its Lanc and Spit?

[Courtney Mil]

Indeed, I was there, Pontius. :ok:

Cracking dit!!!!

[John Farley]

sisemen

Since WWII the registration requirements for military type operations carried out by civilian organistaions has evolved more than somewhat.

In the late 60s/early 70s the CAA were totally happy for HSA to civil register a Harrier and fly it to a country that would not accept a military reg for example. Then in the way oganisations like the CAA evolve they became unhappy with this or that being done under the ANO and eventually a dual military/civil reg system such as that used today evolved.

Mind you none of this changing legislation (for legislators sakes in my view) had any effect on the safety of whatever was being done. As always that was down to the individuals operating the aircraft.

[BEagle]

Mind you none of this changing legislation (for legislators sakes in my view) had any effect on the safety of whatever was being done. As always that was down to the individuals operating the aircraft.

Well said, John and I wish the miserable, pettifogging €urocrats of EASA would understand that!

As Ernest K Gann wrote in Fate is the Hunter:

RULE BOOKS ARE PAPER

They will not cushion a sudden meeting of stone and metal

:hmm:

[sisemen]

Doesn't the BBMF do the same with its Lanc and Spit?

The BBMF aircraft are (when I last looked) still on the RAF inventory. That is not true of the Chalgrove meatboxes (as far as I know).

[pr00ne]

sisemen and et al,

I think you'll find that the Chalgrove Meteors are owned by MoD, supported by QinetiQ and operated by Martin Baker.

[sisemen]

That explains everything. Many thanks.