PDA

View Full Version : CRI teach a PPL?


tobster911
24th Apr 2013, 12:29
If I get a CRI for an SEP, am I able to teach a student with no experience?

Thanks

S-Works
24th Apr 2013, 12:44
nope!! Read FCL.905.CRI for the privileges. A CRI may only teach for the addition or renewals/revalidation's of ratings on the holders of a pilot licence.

Do you really think CRI training is sufficient to teach ab initio.........

nick14
24th Apr 2013, 12:50
You could teach a licence holder with expired ratings/licence/certificates but not an inito.

tobster911
24th Apr 2013, 13:14
Ah right, I thought that was the case.
Cheers

Metamatic
28th Apr 2013, 10:55
I would say that any PPL with a respectable amount of flighttime and the CRI, IMC and Night ratings should be more than adequate to teachthe basic PPL. Teaching on wire controlled aircraft with magneto based engines and navigating with triangulationand basic navigation aids is hardly rocket science.

S-Works
28th Apr 2013, 13:17
Then metamatic, I would suggest you are talking out your arse.

Having been through the CRI, IRI, FI and Examiner route myself, I would never suggest that an CRI was competent to teach ab initio. There is just not enough covered in a CRI to cover all the teaching elements of every exercise.

Have you done an FI course yourself?

Whopity
28th Apr 2013, 14:06
Teaching on wire controlled aircraft with magneto based engines and navigating with triangulation and basic navigation aids is hardly rocket science.What on earth has that got to do with teaching basic flying skills? It wouldn't make any difference if they flew with elastic bands!

Metamatic
28th Apr 2013, 17:08
How typical Bose-x. When someone can not answer with any logic they have to resort using foul language.

S-Works
28th Apr 2013, 21:15
I don't see any foul language in my post. I have an arse, I assume you have one to as well?

My point stands, you are taking from yours if you think a CRI is qualified to teach ab initio.

Whilst I don't agree with all the CPL exams rubbish, I do think that the FI course covers a load of stuff that is essential to teaching for ab initio that a CRI does not cover. Having come through the CRI route to FI and ultimately FE, CRE and TRE I think I actually have the experience to make that judgement.

I suspect that you don't, but am prepared to be regaled by your experience in this matter.

mad_jock
28th Apr 2013, 22:47
Bose he is a troll.

Yes some people would make very good instructors without the FIC. And for some the CRI would be enough.

But for the vast majority they would require the FIC.

Exercises 3-13 are the most important to a fledgling pilot. The teaching for which a CRI has zero exposure to. Never mind the joys of teaching some to land in 14. A FI has already done that for a CRI.

Metamatic
29th Apr 2013, 08:29
When I suggested a CRI teach to PPL standards to new pilotsI did point out that I would expect this instructor to have a respectableamount of experience. I was notsuggesting a low hourís newly qualified pilot. I understand that the FI courseis very much more in depth than the CRI and can only be gained by pilots whohave passed their CPL exams. But also sometimes experience can be a good equivalent.When I suggest a CRI teaching to PPL standards I was suggesting a person with aminimum of perhaps 700 hours in command, IMC rating, night rating and CRIrating with again perhaps of 300 hours of instructing (to the normal CRI privileges).This would give our instructor a minimum of 1000 hours P1. If Bose you do notthink that this level of experience would be sufficient to instruct basicflying skills on a non-complex aircraft then as you would say, I suggest thatyou are talking out of your arse.

S-Works
29th Apr 2013, 09:26
NO! A CRI is not taught the fundamentals of teaching ab initio. I am sure as you suggest they could give them the rudiments as peers but they will never cover what is required to get a new student through the test standards.

Just because someone has a lot of hours and the basics knowledge of Instruction it does not mean that they have all of the tools to teach effectively.

I am suspecting that you are probably a CRI who thinks that they know it all from doing the CRI course and can't understand the level of training an FI actually undergoes.

Don't get me wrong, I am a huge fan of the CRI rating, I wrote an article for one of the magazines many years ago extolling it's virtues and still believe in this. In my day job I could easily get away with the privileges of a CRI. However there is no way that I would ever condone the teaching of ab initio students by a CRI there are just way to many variables in basic PPL training that a CRI is not trained for.

If thats talking out of my arse then so be it. I will be interested to see how much support you garner for your idea......

justmaybe
29th Apr 2013, 09:57
Have to agree with BX. You find out and realise just how little you actually know when you undertake the FI course. It provides the foundation, and your subsequent hands-on teaching and instruction provides the learning and experience for both you and the pupil/student/learner.

mad_jock
29th Apr 2013, 09:58
I was suggesting a person with aminimum of perhaps 700 hours in command, IMC rating, night rating and CRIrating with again perhaps of 300 hours of instructing (to the normal CRI privileges).This would give our instructor a minimum of 1000 hours P1.

And that would zero experience in teaching straight and level part 1 and 2 then to some one that doesn't have a clue.

RTN11
29th Apr 2013, 10:03
Bose has it on this one.

The groundschool requirement alone on the FI course is far in excess of anything a CRI will have to go through, you need a real appreciation of taking someone who has never been anywhere near an aircraft before and starting from scratch, which a CRI will never have to deal with.

S-Works
29th Apr 2013, 10:03
Most terrifying moment in my aviation career? Signing out my first PPL solo student on my own decision that they were ready. I had around 1800hrs TT when I did that and am 100% certain that my previous CRI experience would not have been enough to qualify me for that.

Doing an FI course makes you realise how little you know about teaching for PPL......

FlyingOfficerKite
29th Apr 2013, 11:51
Metamatic

Well with that nonsense you managed to wind 'em up and watch 'em go.

Any other 'topic' you consider worthy of consideration which might provide finger exercise (apart from wiping ones posterior of course!)?

KR

FOK :E ;)

BillieBob
29th Apr 2013, 12:50
Two things you don't often see: a post as utterly wrong as Metamatic's and me agreeing 100% with Bose-X!