Afraid to use PPL

[Matt7504]

Hey Ppruners,

I wasn't really sure whether to post this here or in the private flyers thread, but decided here as it somewhat relates to hours building.
A friend of mine completed their PPL a couple of months ago in the UK and, is looking to go down the commercial route like myself and is at the stage of hours building.
However, my buddy has done little flying since getting his PPL 3-4 months ago (Done a little over 4 hours), and recently informed me that his lack of hours is due to him being afraid to go flying on his own with his PPL. On asking him why he is afraid, he responded by saying that he is worried about various things such as the plane possibly breaking and him not knowing what to do, losing his license for some reason or not thinking that he is competent enough to fly (Lacking confidence).
Personally, I have got quite stuck into my hours building and can somewhat gauge what he is saying as, I too felt a little nervous to fly on my license for the first time (Especially as I fly in class A airspace), I remember it being a mixture of terror and shear adrenaline pumping excitement, I think its just like driving in that once you have your license you might be nervous on the roads but as soon as you have had lots of practise and time doing it, you think nothing of hopping in your car (Plane in this case), but I just think that my friends worrying is a little excessive and in some respects could be quite dangerous which leads me onto my question for you all.
Is this level of fear common amongst low hours builders who have recently achieved their PPLs? and if so, is there any tips or advice you would offer? I would love to say I could sit with my friend whilst he flies but we do not live in the same place sadly. He has a Pprune account and I will refer him to this thread, to maybe help him out, so any comments would be much appreciated.

[RedBullGaveMeWings]

The only solution that comes to my mind to suggest is flying with an instructor and do some kind of structured or monitored hour building.

He must understand that he obtained his PPL by passing a 7 theoritical exams and a check ride with an examiner who assessed him to prove that he meets the required standards to fly as a PPL holder.

[PURPLE PITOT]

Best to give up now before he wastes any more money.

[pudoc]

Nothing worse than having a pilot who's not confident. Confidence plays a huge role to whether or not you'll pass a CPL or IR skills test. What happens if he gets a sim assessment with an airline 1 year after finishing training with only a handful of hours since. How will he feel then?

It might just be because he feels he is out of practice, in which case get into practice with an instructor. Once he gets more hours under his belt this feeling might not ever return. Or it could be something deeper. Only your friend knows how he feels and his situation.

[AdamFrisch]

It is more common than one thinks. I bump into them all the time. In fact many of the airport bums that hang around airplanes and airfields do a lot of talking and very little flying. Some of them due to financial or medical reasons - and I obviously have zero problem with that - but a lot of them because they lack confidence. Not that I have any problem with that either, unless they act like they fly a million hours a year when I know they don't. And this doesn't just concern inexperienced pilots either, I've had an instructor that did pretty much anything he could to avoid actually having to go flying (and he was ex US Navy and super experienced).

I had a bout of it myself just after the first time I took my PPL. Years later when I re-did it, kind of the same thing happened again. I was never really in love with flying small singles, like the 152. I like the little thing and think it's a great aircraft, but I wouldn't say I felt sheltered from harm in it..;)

With my own aircraft things changed a lot, but I have to admit it took a few hours before everything fell into place and I started to trust it. In my experience, after a 100-200hrs of flying, the comfort level goes up. Best thing to do for your friend is to just get on with it - challenge himself to unfamiliar flying, go on longer trips, maybe take along another pilot (this can help tremendously) etc and he will find that his confidence with each accomplished task will soar - this I can promise.

[Gomrath]

The only solution that comes to my mind to suggest is flying with an instructor and do some kind of structured or monitored hour building

The purpose of hour building is to get out there, fly in totally different environments and gain experience -basically being responsible for your own actions.
You are not going to get that if sheltered by an Instructor sat next to you telling you what to do and holding your hand.

[packo1848]

I would argue that taking an instructor or at least an experienced pilot as a passenger would offer some value for a portion of hour-building. I'm fortunate enough to have an experienced airline pilot and instructor as a father, and gained in my humble opinion a lot of valuable experience from having him sat next to me for a portion of my hours. We agreed he was purely there as a passenger/extra set of eyes and that I would be PIC, however any advice offered was graciously taken. I also flew a handful of hours with more experienced PPL holders and the CFI of my club, all valuable experiences.

Of course flying alone is also a big part of confidence building, so I'm certainly not advocating flying the entirety of the hour-building under supervision. I definitely believe a balance of the two is beneficial though.

[Crash one]

I don't understand why but I have felt this lack of confidence solo, but taking a non pilot passenger with me seems to force me to have, or at least demonstrate, the required confidence.
Uttering "Oh ****" with a nervous pax listening would destroy my faith in myself so I would say nothing & think "I am responsible for this poor buggers life, get a grip!"
Taking an instructor just passes the buck.

[flybymike]

Best to give up now before he wastes any more money.

I can't agree with this, in fact it is an incredibly upsetting and depressing thing to tell anyone who has managed to get his licence in the first place. All pilots who are human, and particularly if they are of a conscientious disposition will suffer some degree of nerves but some more so than others. I suffered badly post PPL and I would say it took me maybe 150 hours before I was "fully" comfortable.

There is a good deal of info on the subject out there on the net if you look. Here is one link and I know there has also been an article in either the UK Aopa mag or Gasco mag on the subject (Can't remember which one) Various psychological techniques are also available to deal with the problem which is most definitely not insurmountable.
http://www.hampshireplans.co.uk/AOPA/article.pdf

[Steve6443]

I suffered from a similar sort of anxiety just after passing my PPL, the only way to get over this is to work through it, face your anxiety / fears and overcome them. Having an instructor / fellow pilot sitting next to you is all well and good but how long will this go on for? To pass your PPL, the candidate will have had to have flown at least 10 hours solo, he should just accept that he's done it before, he can do it again.....

[PURPLE PITOT]

All valid points, but if you don't enjoy flying at it's basic level, why on earth is he considering it as a career?

If it is for the perceived "status/money", then best forget it now.

[flybymike]

The ironic and perverse thing is that if he is anything like me, then he will indeed enjoy flying very much (perhaps it is a peculiar form of masochism I don't know) but he will be desperate to find a cure.

It can be overcome.

I have done so, and learning to fly is still without doubt the best ever life decision I ever made.

[AdamFrisch]

That article is great, Mike. Rings a few bells. I used to to get uncomfortable by two different scenarios:

High Altitude.
I'm very afraid of heights, but funnily enough not when I'm flying - or at least that's what I thought then. Turned out I didn't like to fly high for maybe the first 200hrs hours in the new aircraft. It had nothing to do with the altitude per se, just the distance to the ground and the fact that it was just, well, so visible below me in that high wing. This meant I rarely cruised much higher than 5000ft unless the terrain demanded it. But just as quickly as it came, it went away. And I don't know why. Maybe it was a few long cross countries over high terrain that cured it. Today I regularly cruise at 9500-12.500ft with no problems. It's strange how the brain works.

Catastrophic Failure.
This was a big one for a long time on the new (old) aircraft. I just couldn't help to question, especially in heavy turbulence, the integrity of my 60 year old main spar. Sure, they do inspections every year at the annual, but really, chances of them finding a hidden crack or corroded patch is pretty slim - how could I know it hadn't been overstressed or damaged before? Two things helped cure me of this - one was a salvage/breakup of another 520 (that I bought some parts off) where they'd chopped the wings off. I could see how very sturdy and oversized the main spar was. It was a massive I-beam. The second was an Eddy current and dye penetrant main spar inspection on my own aircraft. This gave me the confidence back to fully trust the wing design and as soon as that the anxiety went away.

[abgd]

Hats off to your friend for his honesty in discussing the problem.

Yes, I always felt a little anxious before take-off the first few times I went out on my own. Truth is that I always have felt a little anxious before take-off right from my hang-gliding days though thankfully never in the air (even when things have been going wrong).

My first few flights post PPL I felt especially anxious because I trained somewhere different from where I first struck out on my own. I was very nervous, and I think with reason, about flying in the London TMA.

I solved it firstly by flying more, because 'normalisation' can often help deal with anxiety caused by unusual circumstances. This doesn't have to be flying alone, unless this is a specific part of your friend's phobia. Secondly I did a few flights with an instructor, including tagging along for a ferry flight to a local airfield. Then I did some local flights. Then I repeated the cross-country by myself. Then I started branching out from there.

As others have said, a little anxiety is a good thing. A lot can be disabling. I hope your friend gets things worked out.

[SloppyJoe]

Your friend is not alone, it even happened to Maverick after he lost Goose in that horrible accident. After getting back up there a few times and with the support of his friend such as Charlie and Ice Man he figured it out and ended up beating his problem, even managed to become an instructor at Top Gun. If it happened to him it can happen to anyone, your friend will find the cure the same way.

[Johnm]

The OP's friend needs to join AOPA and look for a mentor who will fly with him and help him build his confidence. If we knew where he was based we might know someone.

[foxmoth]

If you are both hour building, why not suggest you do a few flights together, maybe go slightly further than you would by yourself and you fly out and he flies back. You could even make a couple of days of it, if cash is tight, throw a tent in the back.

[englishal]

I think your "friend" needs to find a flying buddy. I think it is quite normal to feel a bit apprehensive just after the PPL, as lets face it, you don't really know that much and the reality sinks in that no one, but yourself, will get you out of trouble!. As you get more experience and you *know* what to do, then this apprehensiveness disappears, so keep flying. It is the Type A superPilot I am scared of- those that DON'T feel a little bit apprehensive right after their PPL.

I also find flying alone a bit boring really. Who wants to be Johnny No Mates sitting in the airport cafe talking about planes to the rest of the spotters?

Yea having the wings off our Commander was very reassuring - to see big wing spars and big bolts holding it together! not sure I'd go up and do spins in a 30 year old flying club Cessna though.

PS Top Gun wasn't real :D

[foxmoth]

PS Top Gun wasn't real

WHAT!!! NOT REAL


NOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!
:}

[Jude098]

I also find flying alone a bit boring really. Much better to have someone other than ATC to talk to. And very boring on a landaway having a tea/coffee by yourself.

Most plane spotters don't think a female pilot worthy of "talking planes" to. Not that I really want long discussions on strutts, oleos, nuts and bolts, lol.

[Gertrude the Wombat]

Uttering "Oh ****" with a nervous pax listening
That's part of my passenger briefing:

"Don't worry if I talk to myself from time to time. This is the habit one gets into of explaining what one is doing to the instructor, many pilots do it.

"And if I swear at myself it's also probably nothing to worry about - it probably means that I'm irritated that I've done something slightly less neatly than I think I should be capable of."

[phiggsbroadband]

Perhaps he is flying club aircraft that he considers to be old and only marginally airworthy. Although they get through a £5000 annual, they may have only half their radios working, have a tatty appearance and develop flight stopping faults regularly.

Maybe he has been stranded at a distant airfield with a plane that has gone 'tech'. Or, dread the thought, he has actually had to do a real forced landing in a farmers field. (Regular PFL practice is quite a good idea.)

I don't think there are many pilots who fly fault free aircraft.

[Pace]

When you start flying you do not have much experience and can easely get to rely on an instructor or more experienced pilot to make decisions if things don't go to plan.
I used to fly in the local area on my own but for longer trips teamed up with a good friend who was a very experienced and capable pilot!
We would cost share trips with friends further afield and with him there I was confident and cheerful and playing out the role of commander on my legs when deep down I knew he was the commander!
All was well with that charade until one sunny Sunday we had a trip planned into France with a couple of friends!
They turned up early raring to go as was I brimming with confidence prepping the aircraft.
Then the call that drove fear into my heart !
" hi C here ! Had a collision with a car on way to airport and cannot come ! You take them your perfectly capable ".
My confidence vanished as I desperately thought up an excuse to cancel!
the two non pilot friends would not accept the excuses and all if a sudden I heard myself saying " come on then let's go "
We had a fantastic day and flight and the high carried me for weeks!
Sometimes we have to face our fears and dive in
For now your friend would be better teaming up with someone of his own ability so that he feels at least partially in command rather than pretending with an Ace in the right seat

Pace

[CharlieDeltaUK]

Seems to me that there are two types of fear whic could be at play, both quite different.

There's the fear of some life-threatening event, but I suspect the more common fear for new pilots is the fear of simply not being as good as you want to be. It's a big mental investment in learning to fly and most people want to do it well. On the one hand, you have a PPL. On the other hand, mosty of us realise then just how much we really have to learn.

[Matt7504]

I have to say, this thread has received quite a good response, thank you everyone. Phiggsbroadband, your description of an old Cessna is pretty much a perfect representation of the Cessna I fly, had a radio and all in it also!

[OMGisThatJohn]

He's probably worried about things like engine fires and radio failures. Classic Pugs.

[119.35]

It's quite common to be apprehensive about solo flying shortly after gaining your ppl. Not as common to be that worried but still not that unusual.

Flying with a buddy is a good suggestion or flying solo but doing straight forward trips that they are familiar with. Not really in the true spirit of 'hour building' for a cpl but they aren't at that stage yet. A few straight forward trips which they are familiar with would soon breed confidence. Small steps and all that.

[742-xx]

I think that wether we like to admit it or not, we can all relate to this post.
I cetainly can.
I used to only ever fly alone, and driving to the field was like driving to the dentist.
Then one day my dad asked if he could come flying.
It changed things completely for me.
I've always been wary of being 'over-confident'. Which I think is why flying 'concerned' me.
But with a passenger I really enjoyed it. I still fret 24 hours before we go, just the usual 'what if this happens'.. but I think that this is perfectly normal.
I think that no matter how nervous you are, deep down you know that you are competent. You must be, you got the licence after all.
But I can certainly relate.

Hope it all works out for you.
All the best.

[Hampshire Hog]

I learned to fly because I was a terrified airline passenger. I was terrified through some of my training, but I had a great instructor who built my confidence. Then came the solos, some of which were fine and others had me quaking in my boots. I completed all successfully and later picked up both the 'Best PPL' and 'Best IMC rating' awards for the relevant years from my training organisation. I was still very nervous flying alone.

Now, with almost 200 hours, I still have days when flying solo leaves me a little apprehensive, but mostly they don't. Why have I kept going? Determination and a sense of achievement really. Because flying is complex and sometimes a little scary, I wan't to succeed. It is probably good to be a little nervous from time to time - it is your brain working to keep you alert and ready to handle threats to your wellbeing.

If you are worried about coping with harsh conditions, take a look at the 'Flying Wild Alaska' DVDs. They show what small planes can handle (not that I'm recommending you copy them!). Where are you based?

HH

[F4TCT]

Not flown since may 2012 and getting back in the air in about 3 weeks and doing a good few hours with the instructor.

Not scared of the what if's as im confident i could get myself out of any pickle. Nearly ran a tank dry once which shook me up a bit but got straight back on the horse so to speak..

I hate flying on my own though, its so boring. Don;t need another pilot as a PAX.

[Steve6443]

Uttering "Oh ****" with a nervous pax listening

I had to laugh this weekend, I took my sister, her husband and their son for a flight Saturday afternoon when it was, well, a little blustery, to say the least. I'm coming into land, lined up nicely, looking to put in a decent landing, am in the flare when suddenly a gust of wind catches me and raises the plane about 5 feet - well, maybe it felt like that, in reality it was probably only a couple of inches before I reacted - however the very first reaction was an exclamation - "Oh ****".

Only after I'd caught the plane, corrected and made a really smooth landing did I look at my sister to see her face a picture of unadulterated relief - I asked "What's wrong, did you not enjoy the flight?" to which she replied "when you said "Oh ****", I thought we were going to crash....." :eek:

[G-F0RC3]

If it's to do with control then I'd recommend learning some aerobatics. It'll build a huge amount of confidence and make 'normal' manoeuvres not seem quite so bad. :)

If it's to do with navigation then I'd recommend getting a GPS as a backup and not flying when the conditions are marginal until well practised.

If it's to do with communicating with ATC then I'd recommend just practise.

Good luck to your friend. :)

[Piper.Classique]

Not scared of the what if's as im confident i could get myself out of any pickle. Nearly ran a tank dry once which shook me up a bit but got straight back on the horse so to speak..

That's all right then. Any pickle? Really?
You must be a better pilot than the rest of us then. I hope.

[KNIEVEL77]

Great thread.

I'm a little anxious at the moment being 2,500ft up in a tiny little Robinson R22 while training but everyone tells me 'exposure therapy' should help.

[IrishJason]

With just over 150 hours I'm still not 100% comfortable with massive height, Yes I'll do it practicing stall's etc but I'm not there just yet. I'm much happier sitting at 2-3k in a small single :ok:

[FullWings]

What this person might be experiencing is possibly something to do with the Dunning-Kruger effect (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning–Kruger_effect), only in reverse.

Many of those I observe in the flying world who are brimming with confidence, seem to have all the answers and just leap into aircraft and go are not necessarily the most competent, often by a long way.

Those who understand the dangers, are aware of what can go wrong and also understand the limitations of their own skills often seem slightly under-confident until they learn to mask this with a bit of bravado but underneath they are still (rightly) apprehensive.

Aviation is not natural and the best state to successfully engage with it is heightened awareness, somewhere on the line between fear and complacency.

The person in question has passed all their exams and checks and their instructor (and the CAA) has deemed them worthy to hold a licence. It could be that they know there is so much more to know (getting Rumsfeldian here) and it's preying on their mind. Best to reassure them that some of the real 'aces' have similar doubts every time they take to the air...