British & Dutch Plane Spotters sentenced

[tom775257]

3 years for the guys on the charge of spying, others received 1 year on the charge of aiding and abetting espionage. :eek:

OK....now, the 1 year prison sentence has been suspended. The people found guilty of espionage are appealing.

[tom775257]

Apologies for the now misleading subject of the post. From what I can gather the people accused of aiding and abetting espionage have been allowed to go home, with a 1 year (minus 6 weeks) suspended sentence. The others who have been found guilty of espionage, and sentenced to 3 years in jail have asked to appeal. They will be allowed to return to the U.K. until the time of the appeal. This could change; the information seems a little sketchy at the moment…

[FlapsOne]

I'm not bloody surprised........it was only anounced about 2 seconds before your post!!!!!!!!!!!

Are you trying to do Sky News out of a job?

[EGGW]

Sounds like a facing saving exercise by the Greek authorities. Bloody shame it causes untold grief and suffering to a bunch of innnocent people, with a hobby they don't want to understand.
The Greek authorities should be ashamed of themselves.....:mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: http://www.stopstart.fsnet.co.uk/smilie/cussing.gif

[Daifly]

From the BBC:

Plane-spotters found guilty

The group had been hopeful of being cleared

Eight of the 14 plane-spotters accused of spying at a military airshow in Greece have been found guilty of espionage.
The remaining six of the group of 12 Britons and two Dutchmen have been found guilty of aiding and abetting.

Those found guilty of espionage, which include the two Dutchmen, were each sentenced to three years.

It is understood they will be able to go home while they appeal against their sentence.


Those found guilty of the lesser charge were given sentences of one year each suspended for three years.

One of those found guilty of espionage, Paul Coppin said after the verdict: "I wasn't expecting this at all.

"The press have been here to see the evidence in the court and can see the case is ludicrous."

A clearly distraught Lesley Coppin, pacing up and down outside the court, said: "We had guarantees from the lawyers that we wouldn't spend another night in prison. That look unlikely now.

"There's a possibility they might suspend my sentence, but they may not suspend the sentence of my husband Paul."

Mr Coppin's mother, speaking from Norfolk, told the BBC she found the verdict "unbelievable."

Jean Butt said from her home in Norfolk: "My son has three young boys at home."

The three Greek judges delivered their verdict on Friday afternoon, following three days of evidence.

The group had denied the espionage charges, which carry a maximum penalty of five years in jail or a hefty fine.

They were arrested at an airshow in Kalamata, southern Greece, last November, and charged with taking pictures in a military zone.

Invitation

The plane-spotters insisted they were at the show on the invitation of the Greek authorities and that any information collected was already freely available.

But Greek prosecutors told the court in Kalamata they knew what they were doing was illegal and could compromise the country's national security.

They spent five weeks in prison before being released on 14 Dec after posting bail of £9,000 each.

Originally they faced a felony charge of spying, which carries a 20-year sentence, but this was later downgraded to misdemeanour charges.

Those found guilty of espionage are:

Paul Coppin, 45, of Mildenhall, Suffolk
Peter Norris, 52, of Uxbridge, west London
Antoni Adamiak, 37, of London
Andrew Jenkins, 32, from York
Graham Arnold, 38, from Ottershaw, Surrey
Gary Fagan, 30, from Kegworth, Leicestershire
Patrick Dirksen, 27, from Eindhoven, Netherlands
Frank Mink, 28, from Den Helder, Netherlands
Those found guilty of aiding and abetting are:

Lesley Coppin, 51, Mildenhall, Suffolk

Michael Bussell, 47, of Swanland, near Hull
Michael Keane, 57, of Dartford, Kent
Steven Rush, 38, from Caterham, Surrey
Christopher Wilson, 46, from Gatwick, West Sussex
Wayne Groves, 38, from Tamworth, Staffordshire

[spud]

Well they can stop asking for their marbles back for a start!

C'mon Mr Blair, sounds like a couple of your people need you.

[BOEINGBOY1]

However minor, there crimes apear to us here, the truth is that they still broke the law of the land of where they were! No matter how strange the law, religion or customs can be of a foreign culture, you should always respect and obey them.

If not, you should be prepared to accept the consequences of your actions, of which the 14 spotters clearly were not. I understand that that although much information is freely available over the internet, the taking of photo's (especially in the areas concerned) is strictly phrohibited, as it is indeed at many airports around the world including the UK. Didn't thay also have documentation warning that there actions were ilegal?

I hope that they can put togeather a good apeal case, (i understand all are alowed to return to UK pending an appeal), but hopefully can also reflect upon there actions.
:eek: :o :eek: :o :eek: :o

[Mishandled]

If you can't do the time, dont commit the crime. And these morons knew it was illegal.

[brain fade]

Well said,Spud. thats that sorted out.
I'm amazed the spotters went back for the trial in the first place.
If i was one of them i would not travel to greece again under any circumstances. including future legal proceedings.
A lucky escape, being allowed to go home pending an appeal. Stay there!;)

[Nopax,thanx]

How many times...................they did not take photographs on the base! That's already been accepted.

Mishandled - good name! Morons? Unless you know them all, how can you make that kind of allegation? You only bring your argument down to the gutter making such statements.

Try and make a reasoned point and people might take you seriously.

[DIRECTTANGODELTA]

What an absolute bloody disgrace!!There are spotting societies in Athens and Greece-how can these magistrates say these people are spies??The government must intervene in this mess-the greek air force is full of clapped out 3rd hand aircraft-who is interested anyway??Can Stelios help??The hobby is harmless so why all the fuss-send in the army and sort them out -lets have a boycott on holidays in Greece:mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:

[EGGW]

Boeingboy1 did you know they were actually invited to these Greek airbases by the Greek Airforce as part of a series of Open days. They had permission for these visits, doesn't exactly reflect very well on their hosts does it :rolleyes:

They are completely innocent, for christs sake, Greece and the UK are part of NATO, and the European Union.
The prosecution offerred no, repeat no evidence, and gave no information on behalf of whom these people were "Spying" for.
It took my less than 5 minutes surfing to turn up stacks of info. on the net regarding the Greek Airforce. most of the Greek Airfields that i fly to in the summer are joint civil/military. I wonder of we will include a PA to Pax, sorry no writing or piccie taking, as you might be a spy http://www.stopstart.fsnet.co.uk/smilie/tosser1.gif

[Flying Lawyer]

I hope and suspect it will all end well.
The sentences are unlikely to be served, and are probably intended as a warning to others not to ignore notices around military bases. Three years is quite a warning, and will certainly hit the world's headlines!

During the trial, Squadron Leader Nektarios Samaras of the Greek Air Force said he could not understand the group's claim they were writing down aircraft numbers as part of their hobby. He'd never heard of such a hobby.
I must say I have some sympathy for the defence lawyer who had to try to explain this rather British phenomenon to a Greek Court. :D

EGGW
The allegation was that they went beyond the permitted areas. They originally faced felony charges of spying, which carries a 20-year sentence, but this was later downgraded to misdemeanour charges. Do we know enough about the facts of the case to judge whether they were guilty of the misdemeanours alleged?
Espionage sounds very serious, but bear in mind you can be convicted of technical offences under the Prevention of Terrorism Act in the UK without being a terrorist.
These are only ideas put into the discussion - I know nothing about the case except what I've seen in the media.

[yotter]

Again the country which originated the concept of democracy has seen an appalling miscarriage of justice. Old stagers like me remember the farcical trial and imprisonment of the Swiss pilots back in the '70s.
I agree that some sort of protest is needed, and a show of support from IFALPA would help.

[M.Mouse]

EGGW

There are in fact 36 countries listed in my company information where photography is not permitted from the air. Including parts of the US and also within 25NM of Goose Bay as well as some other areas of Canada.

Needless to say Greece is included in that list.

Better start making those PAs.

[greatorex]

Absolutely Bonkers!

[BOEINGBOY1]

EGGW,
They may have been invited to visit the airbase open day, but then seemingly abused the trust of there hosts! I agree that this seems to be a total over reaction and face saving exercise on behalf of the greek authorities, but there actions must have caused some serious concerns in the first place. I will never understand the mind of a spotter, but it does seem strange why people want to write down the reg numbers, movement times, pilots name etc of flights - and I guess to the greek authorities on the day it must have too! I know a few spotters and they all take risks with their hobby, including the taking of ilicit photographs and "accidiently" wondering away from the crowds inorder to obtain that perfect photo shot.

I wonder of we will include a PA to Pax, sorry no writing or piccie taking, as you might be a spy as i said earlier, many airports around the world, including the UK already do phrohibit photography airside, including your dear old name sake!

[Les Bee'un]

It's no wonder that poor old Danny has to keep upgrading the server when people start multiple threads on the same subject.
Reading down just a few posts you will see that this topic is already "under way".

[innuendo]

I wonder if it was established just WHO they were spying for? If there was not some body to pass on the "Intelligence" to, can you really have been spying?
This is ludicrous:confused:

[Benjurs]

As a UK expat living and working in Philadelphia I believe that these people deserve whatever the courts hand out.

Whether or not I believe in the laws here in the US I have to obey them. If not I can expect to be treated like any other lawbreaker here in the US. If I don't like the laws in the US I have only one choice - to leave.

These people went to Greece and broke their laws, plain and simple, now they have to pay the consequences no matter whatever they think of it.

[squeaker]

Surely they would only be expected to be punished if they were actually guilty of espionage, which they clearly are not. Of course one should respect local laws and customs when in another country, the issue here is whether they collected information to pass on to someone else, presumably the Turks. It must be obvious they were not collecting numbers for this purpose, and the stuff they had must have been in the public domain for years.
I'm all in favour of punishing people that flout laws in foreign countries because they would legal at home, but that does not appear to be the case here.

[cat 3a]

One should obey and respect the customs and laws of others

(by the way the marbles shouldn't be here in the first place)

[TheFox]

Squeaker your post seems to be xenophobic. Just because its not against the law here dosen't mean it shouldn't be against the law in Greece. It up to Greece to make the own laws, and i dont think this law make the Greeks into some sort of Barbarians.
These people knew the score before they went there and sailed to close to the wind and got caught. When i fly to certain place i have to fill in forms to comply with the prevension of terrorism act. If i don't i would be breaking the law, an liable to what that entails, but it wouldn't mean I am a terrorist.

[Lon More]

The biggest crime they committed was one of stupidity in believing that they would enjoy the same freedom there as they do in the U.K. These guys paid a considerable sum to pursue their hobby and often have an inflated opinion of their own worth
Many places in the "civilised" world still have restrictions on photography. I can remember signs at EGGW saying that it was forbidden to photograph aircraft. I think it is still forbidden in, e.g. the Netherlands, to make aerial photos without a licence.
Greece may be part of NATO but relations with Turkey are. to put it mildly, strained, making them almost paranoid about security and, as in most countries, the first contact they will make will be with MPs who are not known for intelligence and sensitivity. It was only neccesary for one person to take a photo after a request is made to stop or make a silly comment and as my old man used to say, "Yer feet won't touch."
Once a decision has been made the entire military machine will close ranks behind them and the whole affair takes on a life of its own. If you think face is important to orientals you don't know much about the military mindset.
Back in the 70's an Irish Controller working at Maastricht spent 6 months in a Belgian Jail for telling the MPs to "Fark off" when instructed to stop photographing. His defence was that he was outside the airfield, however the fence was built about 3m. inside the boundary; he could have been out in a couple of hours but refused to grovel and insisted on his "Rights".
If you think something like this couldn't happen in the U.K. I suggest you go find a manned police speed trap, drive through it at double the limit, giving the police the finger and when finally stopped be exceedingly rude. By the time they finish you won't even have a dog licence.



:cool:

[hobie]

quote:

"I will never understand the mind of a spotter, but it does seem strange why people want to write down the reg numbers, movement times, pilots name etc of flights "

why cant they have interests like us ....

Quote:

"Interests: sex , aviation, fast cars, sex, booze, sex and did I mention sex?"

I hasten to add, not the same pprune member!

[rolandpull]

Bottom line is that these guys had an official Air Force letter of accreditation inviting them to the show. The Greeks knew the reason for the chaps visit. These Greeks are are bunch of sloping shoulders nothings who when push came to crunch didnt even have the conviction to make there guilty verdict stand, but declare the verdicts suspended. Interpreters on 15 euros a day?
I trust when the Greek Air force send a jet to RIAT this summer they will be bringing a tent to keep it in!
With respect to a previous statement on prohibited photography over nations listed in ops manuals, I have never seen cabin crew attempt to stop any pax air to ground piccy taking during any stage of flight. I bet they are oblivious to the facts.:confused:

[Lon More]

Hobie
Koi carp says it all,
rollandpull I bet they are oblivious to the facts
Ignorance of the law is no excuse. Just because a law is not enforced does not mean that it has been deleted

[Rollingthunder]

Does anyone think the Turks don't know what and where every last piece of the Greek Airforce is at anytime? Do they actually need to enlist anoraks from the UK or the Netherlands to fill them in with information from an airshow? Give me a break.

[EricTheRed]

Hey you guys!

If the likes of "Mishandled" et all were real pilots, or even airline staff, they might realise that "spotters" are actually human beings with a common interest in aviation. They are, effectively, supporters of aviation and the complete opposite to NIMBY's and other groups who try to oppose the movements of GA and commercial aircraft.

Time we showed some solidarity with people who are on our side.

'Nuff said.

Respect to you all.

ETR

[maxalt]

Back in the 70's an Irish Controller working at Maastricht spent 6 months in a Belgian Jail for telling the MPs to "Fark off" when instructed to stop photographing....he could have been out in a couple of hours but refused to grovel and insisted on his "Rights".

Ahhh yes...the myth of 'good old British Justice and Fair play'.

The Irish are especially familiar with its shortcomings.

Funny how you Brits get so upset when the tables are turned on you.

Welcome to the brutal truth. There is no right above the right of a sovereign state to treat bothersome foreigners as it so wishes.

[Semaphore Sam]

Regardless of the pros and cons, in never fails; in Greece, someone always gets it in the end.
(In remembrance of the Swissair crew at Athens, b*ngholed by airport incompetence at Athens).

[crab]

If the Greeks are really serious about punishing these people,they should confiscate their anoraks!

[yotter]

I hope maxalt is joking with the reference to 'good old British justice'. Surely even a Ryan driver can see the difference between a travesty of natural justice about the right to wear an anorak of one's own choosing, and a small domestic spat in N.Ireland that no one's really interested in.

[Tom the Tenor]

"Small domestic spat in N. Ireland." Tell that to the grieving families of thousands of Irish and British people that have died in your so called little 'Spat' since 1969. Yotter, get off the stage, you are only making yourself look foolish.:confused:

[rolandpull]

Youre drift doesn't compute on my CRP-5.
So what are you saying is that by CC not knowing 'the law' and not knowing how to enforce 'the law' that they dont know about, they (CC) are failing in their duty as professional aviators by being ignorant of 'the law'. Do you work for Olympic?:confused:

[yotter]

Oh Tom. of course the Irish troubles are tragic and much more important than a bunch of anorak plane spotters - that is the whole point of my sarcasm. It was your Irish mate who started this sideline by having a sly dig at the Brits. If you don't like aviation type joshing and general p*** taking - hard luck and sorry if you missed the point. Try reading my message again.

[Boss Raptor]

Oh dear...welcome to the real world...

[Lon More]

Maxalt
Good old (British) justice and fair play
Obviously up ther somewhere with the Irish standard of education.
If you could read you might have noticed it occured in Belgium. The guy concerned, a good friend of mine, is now working in the U.K. as a controller.
Had you read my previous posts properly you might have concluded that I had very little sympathy with the lot of those concerned.

rollandpull

The captain is responsible for the actions of his crew.
As this information is published in the relevant AIP it could be argued that by not informing the crew his preflight preparation and briefing is inadequate so I repeat, ignorance of the law is no excuse.
In practice the law is no longer enforced

No I don't work for Olympic

Edited for spelling mistakes on French keyboard

[RickPhucked]

Greece are supposed to be in the EU, and with all the european lark they should act accordingly, Yes these guys were wrong, but I think within the EU it should have been a ticking off etc etc, go home.

Now what I cannot understand is how Greece is so convinced that there technology is so advanced that it has to be protected, very strange. I get the impression they are becoming similar to the african 3rd world countries who are convinced that because they have 2 guns and a helicopter they can take on the world, they then argue that because a british person has seen the weapons that he is spying, and don't understand when you explain that you can buy the same stuff in europe 'fairly easily', its a very strange scenario.

[wickerman]

I seem to recall Trainspotters having similar problems in China whilst taking piccies of steam trains. The difference is that in Totalitarian China they saw sense and quietly released them with a rap on the knuckles.
I expect this will end up in the European Court along with Asda and the right to slice your Ham where you please.

[Mishandled]

Eric the red. I've worked at airports ever since I left university (over 10 years ago), and wjhilst I still think that these people were stupid I dont have anything against spotters in general, weird though I think their hobby might be. These particular individuals though, went to a foreign country, broke the laws that they knew about and are now reaping the rewards. If they had obtained permission from the appropriate authorities, or just stayed within the bounds of the law, then there would have been no problem. They didnt, they must pay the penalty. I have sympathy for them on a human level, but as I said in my first post on the subject, they did the crime now they must do the time.

[Nopax,thanx]

Mishandled - check out the thread on JB for the accused's version of events - might interest you.

[skippyscage]

this is taken from the "horses mouth"...... maybe if you take the time to read this you can understand the wider issues, instead of typical knee-jerk reaction (like the popular press)

this has been broken into 2 parts as it's tooo large.....

"quote....

In this note I am responding on behalf of the "Kalamata 14" to a number of issues that have been raised:-

1. E-MAILS:
I am sympathetic to the desire that a number of people have expressed to bring to the attention of the Greeks their displeasure at Friday's decision and have seen various suggestions as to e-mail addresses (Greek AF, Greek
Prime Minister, Greek Ambassador etc) which could be used.

Whilst I would not wish to prevent anyone who wishes to from expressing their views in this way, I am doubtful as to their effectiveness and there is great potential for them to be counter-productive. I would ask that anyone who feels that they must communicate via e-mail to Greek officialdom to please be both
polite and constructive.

2. BOYCOTTS:
The last thing any of us would want to see is people boycotting Greek restaurants in the UK or taking any form of 'direct action' to vent their feelings. There are plenty of things wrong with the world without us adding to them. Our argument is with the Greek 'system' not with individuals or with the Greek people in general. On the other hand I fully support a boycott of Greek holidays as I sincerely believe that by visiting Greece, foreigners are placing themselves at risk. There are many wonderful holiday
destinations in this world so removing Greece from your list of options should not cause anyone any hardship and falling tourist revenues may eventually cause the Greek government to re-evaluate their treatment of visitors.

During our time in prison and from further information provided to
us on our return, we have learnt of many people who have had unfortunate experiences of the Greek legal system. It is not simply the case that "planespotters" should expect problems in Greece, rather that when "things" happen to any foreign visitor to Greece, there is enormous potential for them to go wrong in a big way. The Greeks themselves are well aware that to witness a crime in Greece is a dangerous thing. This is why many months
after the assassination of the British Military Attache in a major Athens street during the rush hour, no witnesses have as yet come forward.

3. GREEK VISITORS TO UK AIR SHOWS
I disagree with those who advocate asking airshow organisers to revoke invitations to Greek AF aircraft to UK airshows. Their aircraft are rare enough over here at the best of times and their presence enriches any airshow. If we can't go and see them over there, please lets have them over here! More importantly, if our interest is ever to be understood in Greece then an education process needs to take place. One way this can be furthered is by having Greek aircrew at UK airshows to see what goes on in a 'normal' country.

We were arrested at a small town provincial trainer base where probably few, if any, of the personnel had ventured out of Greece. My own belief is that had the same situation arisen at a Greek fighter base, with english speaking aircrew to hand who had perhaps been involved in a TLP or similar event which might have given them experience of landing to the sight of vast numbers of camera lenses and telescopes being pointed at them, then the incident would have been settled amicably at the beginning. What we want is more Greek AF visitors to spread the word back home that interest in military aviation is not something which inherently consitutes 'suspicious behaviour'.

If our arresting officer had brought a Kalamata based Buckeye to last year's RIAT and had seen what people do at airshows in the rest of Europe, the arrest would probably never have happened.

4. PROPAGANDA
Because there is still misunderstanding, let us be clear once more. At NO point during the trip did ANY member of the group take ANY pictures at ANY Greek military installation. Pictures were taken at 4 locations:
1) Athens War Museum, 2) the Bell 212 helicopter parked on the general aviation ramp at the old Athens civil airport (Hellenikon), 3) the museum collection at the old port in Mesolongi, 4) the scrapyard in Vonitsa village containing the wrecks of scrapped F-84F Thunderstreaks broken up in 1986.

Greek propaganda continually spins the story that "they were warned three times and still continued". The facts are that as we entered 3 airshows we were informed that there was a ban on photography, and as a result we "continued" not to take any. The insinuation that a film was 'destroyed' (by its owner)
is a nonsense as all film was removed from cameras by the police whilst we were detained elsewhere under armed guard.

5. "THEY KNEW THAT TAKING NOTES WAS ILLEGAL"
The only evidence produced in court to specifically state that note-taking was illegal was an extract from a non-Greek web site. The group were apprehended at Tanagra on the first day and after a thorough checking out by the police, AF and security service, were released. The investigating officers checked out the full range of paraphernalia, cameras, film, telescopes, notebooks (jncluding Tanagra), reference books etc. Upon release we were told "sorry to have delayed you", "you have done nothing wrong", "do not take any photographs at military installations" and "enjoy the rest of your holiday". If it was legal to take notes at Tanagra on Monday, why was it illegal to take notes at Kalamata on Thursday?

One of the eye-openers for me during our trial was to learn that the Articles of the Greek penal code under which we were charged are themselves part of a "secret document" and do not form part of the law as available for perusal by the public. These Articles are not published in the "Government Gazette" and therefore do not form part of Greek law as publicised to the
Greek public. To obtain a copy of the Articles which formed the basis of the charge, our lawyer had to effectively 'sign the official secrets act'. He publicly told the court that in reading the contents to the court (on live TV) he was committing a far greater offence than any of the accused. The fact is that there is no legislation which prohibits taking notes of the serial numbers of Greek military aircraft which is precisely why the charge brought against the group was the nebulous one of 'espionage'. The
prosecution case was based not upon evidence of wrongdoing (the evidence showed that members of the group had looked at aeroplanes through binoculars, walked around an airshow static park and written down numbers) but rather that possession of cameras, telescopes, reference books and notebooks whilst travelling in a group of 14 in two minibuses with prior contact with the AF HQ was conclusive proof that the individuals involved
could not possibly be spotters (never heard of such a thing!) but must be spies.

On the subject of notes, the Public Prosecutor made great play over the presence of signs at Kalamata prohibiting photography and argued that by implication the ban on photography implied a ban on note taking etc. I found it significant that the media had found it necessary to apply to the court for permission to bring cameras into the court room, but strangely none of them had felt a similar need to ask permission to take notes (this despite the fact that dozens of people were taking notes in the court room).

The Prosecutor stated that whilst Touchdown had permission to visit the open days, they had no permission to take notes. In my experience of 30 years of "planespotting" during overseas base visits, I can recall many instances where I have needed a permit for photography, but not a single instance where I have been given a permit allowing note taking. In most countries, were a misunderstanding to arise over a note-taking issue, the remedy would be to confiscate the offending notebook, not to threaten the offender with a 20 year sentence for espionage (subsequently commuted to 3 years following imprisonment and trial). Bear in mind that the 1 year suspended sentences are for those with no evidence against them (ie no notebook). The difference between a 1 year suspended sentence and a 3 year custodial sentence is that some guys copied down notes in the hotel, or took down the list at the time..

Bear in mind also that a 1 year suspended sentence also applies to a grandmother non-spotter who was sitting in a van doing a crossword.

cont.....

[skippyscage]

cont...


6. THE SENTENCES
Following the total confusion which ensued due to the shabby way in which the verdict was delivered, I have subsequently determined that the implications of the two sentences are as follows:-

1 year suspended: Applies to those found guilty of "aiding & abetting" espionage. I am lucky enough to fall into this group. This sentence is suspended for three years which means that if we do not commit an offence in Greece during this period then the 1 year jail sentence does not come into play. That means I now have a criminal record which causes many impediments
to normal life, for instance I would have difficulty in entering the USA. We can also pay a daily rate to in effect 'buy out' the sentence. Strangely, paying this fee would in effect mean that the conviction had 'never happened'. This confirms my view that the Greek legal system is concerned more with finance than with justice. The bail money for the 1 year guys should be refunded shortly (less the additional £4000 legal bill which was sprung upon us on Friday, for those who opted to take this money out of the £9000 bail). Appeals have been lodged against the 1 year suspended sentences.

3 year sentence: The only reason the 3 year guys are now back in the UK is because they have lodged an immediate appeal. They are now back on bail of £9000 and will not see this money until the appeal comes to fruition (years?). Should the appeal go against them, there is a second tier of appeal but they would go to prison pending the second appeal hearing. Whilst imprisoned in Nafplio last year we met prisoners who had multi year sentences who had an appeal hearing scheduled for a year after their release.

There are many issues raised by this case, a number of which have nothing to do with "planespotters" but everything to do with the wider issues of Greece, its legal system and its place within the EEC. Last weeks trial ran for many hours and I do not have the time or stamina to go through all the points raised, so the above just skims the surface. We have not heard the last of this by a long chalk. As with my note before Christmas I do not
intend to follow up this note with further messages, nor will I reply to any responses on the subject - I have my own life to lead. I would urge you continue to support the "planespotters" case in whatever way you can and if you know anyone planning to travel to Greece, if you care for them, try to dissuade them.

Regards,

Mike (Convicted of espionage, Kalamata, Greece, 26.4.02)

(No.11 in December, No.4 in April)

...unquote"

[chiglet]

Can it be that "El Presidente" Bluurr having signed at "treaty" to allow ALL of or EU "friends" to come here and arrest anyone , that they think has broken a law in their country. Is that why he's doing nowt?:mad:
we aim to please, it keeps the cleaners happy

[Unwell_Raptor]

I hope somebody locks these guys up.

http://www.hellas.org/military/air_force/

[PaperTiger]

Me too. I just wrote down every serial reggie which appears on that page. There's even more on the Army page.

[Nopax,thanx]

Mr. Tiger...............do not leave your house, the Greek Military Police are on their way. Do not attempt to fill your refrigerator with Greek yogurt and ouzo in an attempt to appease the authorities, as they can see through such blatant propaganda.

You are quite obviously a spy on the payroll of the Turkish military, and will be dealt with accordingly!

If you need legal assistance, do not attempt to contact these people, as they are spies too.

http://www.f-t-a.freeserve.co.uk/

Love from Stavros and the team!