Nine exams for the PPL

[Mickey Kaye]

Changes to pilot exam syllabus announced by CAA | CAA Newsroom | About the CAA (http://www.caa.co.uk/application.aspx?catid=14&pagetype=65&appid=7&mode=detail&nid=2230)

And to quote

"The UK Civil Aviation Authority (CAA) has today published details of changes to the ground-based exam programme taken by students training for a Private Pilot’s Licence (PPL). The changes follow extensive consultation with pilot representative bodies.

Under the new exam schedule the number of exam papers sat by a student will increase from seven to nine. This increase is to accommodate new regulations from the European Aviation Safety Agency (EASA) which require students to undertake at least 100 hours of theoretical knowledge training, including a certain element of formal classroom work as well as other interactive forms of training. Each exam will feature between 16 and 20 questions, with a pass mark of 75 per cent.

The CAA also revealed it will extend the definition of a ‘sitting’ to ten days to help students cope with the increase. Rather than the current classification of a sitting being ‘one day’, the new arrangements will allow an exam sitting to take place over ten consecutive days. Only one attempt at each subject paper is allowed in one sitting, however.

The CAA said it had responded positively to industry concerns over its initial intention to define a sitting as three days, which some flight examiners felt would be insufficient for many students.

Ray Elgy, Head of Licensing and Training Standards at the CAA, said: “The new exam syllabus which will take effect in the autumn offers a practical and fair arrangement for student pilots training for a PPL. We very much welcomed input from industry in formulating these changes which represent a constructive outcome for everyone involved in pilot training.”

The changes will come into force on the 1 September 2013. The CAA will publish in due course details of arrangements for students who find themselves midway through their exams on that date."

[xrayalpha]

Am a little confused with this "sitting" and one go at one exam per "sitting".

OK, I am simple. I am a microlight instructor. So, in some respects, it is all irrelevant to me.

But I would like to understand what is happening "on the other side of the fence".

So, does one do nine (!) exams all in one sitting?

(we simple microlight chaps just sit an exam whenever we feel like it)

Is there a limit to the number of exams one can have at a sitting, or a limit to the number of sittings (either number, as in say three sittings, or time, as in three sittings in a 12 month period?)

Thanks for any clarification.

[Esperanza]

Umm...I knew about the nine exams, but this "sitting" business is news to me. When I think of my PPL clientele I'm filled with dread. It's hard enough to get them to do exams over a period of months. It all sounds a bit bizarre. This must have been set-up by people with no knowledge of PPL training.

[Esperanza]

Mind you, being able to drag out seven exams over eighteen months is pretty bonkers when you think about it.
FAA...one exam. Possibly not the worst idea ever. Well, apart from the fact that having nine exams is going to be good for the bank balance.

[Treadstone1]

In theory...one switched on kiddie....all nine exams in 10 days...one sitting...job done.:D

[Whopity]

The changes follow extensive consultation with pilot representative bodies. Who precisely has been consulted?
Each exam will feature between 16 and 20 questions, with a pass mark of 75 per cent. x 9 = approximately 162 questions when the EASA requirement is:(1) The examinations should be in written form and should comprise a total of 120 multiple-choice questions covering all the subjects. Does Mr Elgy not understand what TOTAL means?
Have any of the representative bodies actually endorsed the additional 42 questions?

[BEagle]

Fair questions, Whopity!

Particularly since the topic was raised at the last FCL Implementation Forum (which was attended by the CAA) - EASA confirmed that 120 questions means 120 questions and that there is no mandate for 9 individual exams.

I suspect that the real reason for the 20-50% extra CAA gold plating is that the papers were already printed - and that despite EASA's clear guidance, the cost of replacing these 9 papers was of greater concern to the CAA.

Although AOPA persuaded the CAA to increase the definition of a 'sitting' to 10 consecutive days, we were NOT involved in the 'extensive consultation with pilot representative bodies' to which the press release refers and will be asking who actually was involved.....

[xrayalpha]

Does anyone know how it works:

Do I do all nine exams in a 10-day "sitting".

And then if I fail some, do I just do the ones I failed - or all again?! - in another "sitting".

And is there a limit to the sittings, perhaps no more than three?

Sorry, I expected that those who had been "consulted" could explain.

I will get asked this stuff by prospective students, but I am also busy running a business and find it hard to keep up with this. Pity you folk in EASA's claws.

[BillieBob]

You will have 6 sittings, each of 10 days duration, to pass all of the exams. How you arrange exams between sittings is entirely up to you, or more likely to your ATO, which has to recommend you for the examinations, having first checked that you have completed all of the elements of the 100 hours theoretical knowledge training course to a satisfactory standard.

The fact that the UK CAA continues to impose requirements in excess of the EASA Regulation, which it clearly fails to understand, should surprise nobody.

[2close]

Another entry for the Red Tape Challenge, methinks!

On another note, does this mean that the CAA will extend the 10 day rule for sittings to the professional exams?

At the CTKI meeting in February it was stated that they intend to move over to computerised testing for professional exams - maybe 10 days per sitting as well. Anyone got any info on this?

:)

[BillieBob]

Another entry for the Red Tape Challenge, methinks!
More a case for a legal challenge, I would have thought. EU law requires that there are 120 questions in the PPL exams and the UK CAA are clearly non-compliant with this requirement.does this mean that the CAA will extend the 10 day rule for sittings to the professional exams?Nope, the maximum permitted length of time for a sitting is 10 days

[tomtytom]

Could you not in theory let a student do 3-4 exams in a day then just backdate them all by 1 day each?

[Whopity]

You can let them do all the exams in one day, why would you want to backdate them?

The problem is that all exams and any resits have to be completed in 6 sittings. As you are allowed 4 attempts in any one subject, if you used all 4 attempts, each being a different sitting, then you only have two sittings left to pass the rest!

Of course if they just had 2 exams to cover the 9 subject it would be so much simpler and closer to the original template which was copied from the FAA!.

[BEagle]

Perhaps applicants should choose 14 questions from each of the papers and ignore the rest?

"I've answered 126 multiple choice questions and passed 11 in each exam, giving me an average of 78.6% - which is more than EASA requires".

I suggested 6 exams for 6 sittings, but people could obviously take more in each sitting, should they so wish:

http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a341/nw969/exams_zps42eab36c.jpg (http://s14.photobucket.com/user/nw969/media/exams_zps42eab36c.jpg.html)

[MrAverage]

BillieBob

The problem is the EU requirement is only: "should be 120 questions" (and therefore not must). This allows the CAA to use their discretion.........

[Whopity]

This allows the CAA to use their discretion.........Yes, it can be less than 120, but not more than, as that would exceed the regulatory requirement. The CAA have no remit to be more stringent than the regulation requires!

[Fostex]

Do you not have that the wrong way round...

It should be at least 120 questions to satisfy EASA, but not less than 120

[keith williams]

All of this argument about the number of questions really is missing the point.
The real problem is that much of the material has no relevance to what a PPL holder actually needs to know and do.

Does it really make any difference if we have 120 questions on irrelevant subjects or 200 questions on irrelevant subjects?

[BillieBob]

The problem is the EU requirement is only: "should be 120 questions" (and therefore not must). This allows the CAA to use their discretion.........No, it doesn't work like that under EU law. The AMCs are 'soft law' and must be complied with unless an alternative means of compliance has been accepted. Since this has not been done, the CAA is bound by the 120 figure, as EASA has confirmed.

[BigEndBob]

I'd like to see exams in which you have to get 100% to pass.
The questions would be relevent, safety orientated, essential information.
You can take the exams as many times as you like to pass.
I remember years ago the commercial air law was two papers, one requiring 100% pass mark, the questions weren't hard, but essential collision avoidance stuff.

[Private jet]

Looking at all these new requirements, how unsafe must i have been when i got my UK PPL under the old pre euro CAA system?..........:ugh::ugh::ugh:

[OpenCirrus619]

Does anyone definitively know whether exams passed under the current system will still be valid for 24 months from "The successful completion of the theoretical knowledge examinations".

e.g. If someone passes the last exam, under the current system, on 31st August 2013 they will be OK - as long as they complete their PPL by 30th August 2015?

Thanks

OC619

[BEagle]

Yes.

Only the new exams may be taken after 31 Aug; however, unless you have passed both Navigation and Flight Performance & Planning before 1 Sep, you will have to take them again. This is because certain syllabus items have been moved from one exam to the other - there's nothing new in the actual syllabus content. All other passes of the old exams will remain valid for the normal time period.

It seems that the new 9 exams include a total of 172 questions - so the CAA has gold-plated the EASA requirement to the tune of an extra 43.3%....:\

[BigEndBob]

Well at least they are going to correct the already wrong answers to some questions before we start using the papers, unlike the old papers.

[BEagle]

BEagle - do the CAA even listen to "corporates" like AOPA?

Yes. We're collaborating at the highest levels; however, the 'exam people' seem to be living in a world of their own - something we are currently attempting to change.

If sufficient members, who are privy to sight of the PPL exams, have concerns at their content and relevance, we will certainly be taking up the cudgels!

[Whopity]

We're collaborating at the highest levels; however, the 'exam people' seem to be living in a world of their own That sums up the current CAA, a total lack of communication or supervision from the higher levels to those doing the work!

[justmaybe]

Agree with G RICH - the 10 sittings rule is going to throw up obvious problems, and some of the nav questions are simply ridiculous at PPL level. Who on earth at the CAA is overseeing or monitoring this exam process? None of it bears any relevance or enhances training at the private pilot level. If the CAA is only going to deal with 'corporate bodies' then AOPA needs to get a very public grip on this, and soon!

[Whopity]

the 10 sittings ruleThere are only 6 sittings allowed. Each sitting can last up to 10 days!

[BEagle]

....some of the nav questions are simply ridiculous at PPL level. Who on earth at the CAA is overseeing or monitoring this exam process? None of it bears any relevance or enhances training at the private pilot level. If the CAA is only going to deal with 'corporate bodies' then AOPA needs to get a very public grip on this, and soon!

justmaybe, are you an AOPA member? If so, please e-mail the office with your concerns and we will look into them.

[justmaybe]

Thanks Whopity, thats what I actually meant - danger of posting late at night and in anger! BEagle, I will but be prepared for a lot of reading!!

[Vone Rotate]

So 100 hours of theoretical training?
At the average of £20 per hour for an instructor that's another 2k for the student. Or have I got the wrong end of the stick and they simply have to keep a personal log or something?

Bit OTT as I and many others just self studied then took the exams.

Why the limit on sittings I'll never know! It's a PPL! Who cares if a student does one at a time??

[S-Works]

The 100hrs can be self directed study. I have started pointing students at the online training courses as these easily meet the study time requirements.

100hrs over 9 exams in reality is probably what most people will self study.

I don't see this as a problem.

[xrayalpha]

bose-x,

How does the student (or FTO) prove that 100 hours have been done.

Just passing the exam obviously doesn't count!

(thinking that I could self-study one page of Trevor T while watching a film, and no-one is the wiser. That's 90-mins in my logbook - do I need a training logbook?)

Of course, my FTO might insist on properly logged "face time" - it would earn them some cash, and I cannot do the ground school/exams elsewhere?

[LTCTerry]

"Imagine how unsafe..."

In FAA-land 1 test for private, 1 test for IFR, 1 test for commercial, and 1 test for ATP. Think how unsafe all those N-registered 7X7 products must be with only "four-tested" pilots guiding them all over the world! Yikes.

Terry

[Whopity]

How does the student (or FTO) prove that 100 hours have been done.Training Records and until you can verify it, you can't recommend the student to take the exams. This would of course mean that no exams can be taken until all the ground training is completed.

[BigEndBob]

Anything could be written in the student records.

I propose to give up instructing, would be a lot safer, no responsiblities, no licences to revalid, no seminars, flight tests, no medicals, no u/s aircraft to deal with, no crap weather, no rent, no rates,no leci bills.

I could rent a room at a local flying school, school or college, charge £20 hour doing just ground school. Student keeps receipts and thats proof the ground school has been done!

Would make more money than i do now working 6 day week for minimum wage running my own flying school.

[xrayalpha]

BEB,

Have some ambition.

Go to your local college. Draw up a syllabus. Then offer it as a college course.

Staff job, long holidays, bank holidays, subsidised canteen, "in service days" so you can can keep up with EASA's latest (maybe that should be "in service months", and then a pension at the end of it!

[Whopity]

And approval fee!

[Greg2041]

Any truth that the date has been postponed again to the end of September and not August? I heard this from a QFI last week.

[Level Attitude]

How does the student (or FTO) prove that 100 hours have been done.Training Records and until you can verify it, you can't recommend the student to
take the exams. This would of course mean that no exams can be taken until
all the ground training is completed.

Not so,
A candidate can take any exam, at any time*, if they have learnt the subject
and been recommended by their ATO
* = Taking in to account the 18 month and six sittings requirement

FCL.025 Theoretical knowledge examinations for the issue of licences
(2) Applicants shall only take the examination when recommended by the approved
training organisation (ATO) responsible for their training, once they have completed
the appropriate elements of the training course of theoretical knowledge instruction
to a satisfactory standard.

AMC1 FCL.025 Theoretical knowledge examinations for the issue of licences
TERMINOLOGY
The meaning of the following terms used in FCL.025 should be as follows:
(b) ‘Examination’: the demonstration of knowledge in one or more examination papers

By the end of their flying training (ie before Skill Test) PPL candidates must
have received 100 hours of theoretical instruction but there is no minimum
hours laid down before they can take one, or all, of the written exams.

I don't think ATPL candidates would be very pleased if they had to have
received all their required hours of theoretical instruction before they
were allowed to take their first/first group of exams (isn't this where
the idea of, a limited number of, exam sittings comes from?)

[Treadstone1]

FCL.025 Theoretical knowledge examinations for the issue of licences
(2) Applicants shall only take the examination when recommended by the approved
training organisation (ATO) responsible for their training.

How and to whom do you recommend?

Is there yet another form/process I don't know about?

[BillieBob]

You make the recommendation to the examiner in accordance with the procedure in the relevant Training Manual, which will have been approved by the competent authority. Presumably, to determine that the appropriate elements have been completed for each exam, you will first have to decide what proportion of the 100 hours theoretical knowledge training is appropriate to each subject.

[Treadstone1]

Hi Billiebob,

If its a RF, what Training Manual?

[Cobalt]

Procedure for an RF

RF: "How long did you read the books?"
Student: "Dunno - maybe 100 hours?"
RF: "Right then, off you go!"

[Whopity]

If its a RF, what Training Manual? Your original post referred to FCL.025 and ATOs. Until April 2015 RFs may continue unapproved as they did under JAR-FCL, so they do not have to make any recommendation. When and if they become an ATO they will have to produce a Training Manual with the relevant details.