NPPL(SSEA) Flight Instructors

[BEagle]

The CAA has now confirmed that an FI(A) who meets part-FCL LAPL-level requirements may instruct for the NPPL(SSEA) as well as for the LAPL(A).

This means that a PPL/FI may receive remuneration for conducting NPPL(SSEA) training without the need to have passed the CPL exams.

The FI(A) course remains the same, as do the PPL experience pre-requisites. There is no lesser grade 'LAPL FI' course.

LAPL-level FEs, if indeed there are any, may also examine for the NPPL(SSEA).

Please note that an NPPL(SSEA) holder may not instruct for the NPPL(SSEA). The lowest acceptable licence grade remains the PPL(A).

[gijoe]

So hypothetical case:

EASA PPL(A) holder obtained on renewal of JAR-FCL(A) , many hours, complex, tailwheel, night, IMC, CRI etc

1. FI(A) course - can this be done without having to do the CPL(A) exams?

2. Medical requirement - Class 1 or 2?

G:ok:

[S-Works]

Only Class 2 required. It takes us back to the days of the PPL Instructors who were the backbone of every flying club rather than hours builders just itching to move onto shiny things. Shame they did not include the PPL(A) in the no CPL exams requirements as that would have returned us fully to where we started!

[sapperkenno]

To the best of my knowledge... The hypothetical case sounds a lot like me (PPL CRI, Night, Tailwheel & FAA CPL/MEIR CFI/II) and this is something I am now seriously looking into doing.

No CPL theory exams are required (Halle-F***ing-Lujah!), and you will end up as an FI(R) just like anyone else (ie, it's no lesser a qualification, and the FI course is the same) but you will only be allowed to teach ab-inito NPPL/LAPL and not the EASA PPL(A). I also believe that having the CRI helps with a slight reduction in the ground training, but no credit is given towards the flying aspect.


Some questions from me...

Is there any further credit given by already having an ICAO instructor rating?

If I train someone towards a NPPL/LAPL, who then decides to do a EASA PPL prior to attaining their NPPL/LAPL by getting an EASA medical and ticking the extra boxes for Radio Nav etc before taking a PPL skills test... Will all the training I've given them count towards their PPL?!

Furthermore, is the whole reason an FI needs CPL level knowledge due to the Radio Nav part of the PPL? So could a PPL FI without CPL exam passes not just teach a PPL course bar the Radio Nav? Is their any wiggle room here, or would that be knowingly trying to bend the rules, and not allowed?

Many thanks,
Spr K retd.

[ifitaintboeing]

Is there any further credit given by already having an ICAO instructor rating?

Under JAR-FCL you used to have to complete 15 hours flight training for conversion of an ICAO > JAR-FCL FI rating. Under EASA, the requirement has changed to 'training as recommended by an ATO'. You will have to pass an Assessment of Competence upon completion of the course with a Flight Instructor Examiner.

CAP 804, Section 4, Part Q Subpart 2, Page 1, contains Article 8 from the Aircrew Regulation which states:

(1) Without prejudice to Article 12 of Regulation (EC) No 216/2008 and where there are no agreements concluded between the Union and a third country covering pilot licensing, Member States may accept third country licences, and associated medical certificates issued by or on behalf of third countries, in accordance with the provisions of Annex III to this Regulation.

(2) Applicants for Part–FCL licences already holding at least an equivalent
licence, rating or certificate issued in accordance with Annex 1 to the
Chicago Convention by a third country shall comply with all the requirements
of Annex I to this Regulation, except that the requirements of course
duration, number of lessons and specific training hours may be reduced.

(3) The credit given to the applicant shall be determined by the Member State to which the pilot applies on the basis of a recommendation from an approved training organisation.

So, an ATO is allowed to recommend what training is required, then may carry out that training. They attest that all relevant training is completed by providing a Course Completion Certificate. No minimum (or maximum) ground and flight training.

ifitaint...

[BigEndBob]

All this goes to prove what an unholy mess things have become.

[gijoe]

So what is the demand for FI(R)s that can only teach to LAPL and NPPL(SSEA)?

:ok:

[andre1990]

In simpleton terms, does this means that someone with a PPL can teach NPPL for remuneration?

[RVR800]

This change will ease the huge shortage of FI(Restricted) that there is in the UK at the moment :rolleyes:

BTW : Makes the the CPL(A) exams below economic viability - who will sit these now?:ugh:

Will they re-introduce the pilot assistant role i.e. PPL/IMC in RHS next!

[BEagle]

In simpleton terms, does this means that someone with a PPL can teach NPPL for remuneration?

First they must meet the FCL.915.FI FI Prerequisites

An applicant for an FI certificate shall:

(a) in the case of the FI(A) and FI(H):

(1) have received at least 10 hours of instrument flight instruction on the appropriate aircraft category, of which not more than 5 hours may be instrument ground time in an FSTD;

(2) have completed 20 hours of VFR cross-country flight on the appropriate aircraft category as PIC; and

(b) additionally, for the FI(A):

(1) hold at least a CPL(A); or

(2) hold at least a PPL(A) and have:

(i) met the requirements for CPL theoretical knowledge, except for an FI(A) providing training for the LAPL(A) only; and

(ii) completed at least 200 hours of flight time on aeroplanes or TMGs, of which 150 hours as PIC;

(3) have completed at least 30 hours on single-engine piston powered aeroplanes of which at least 5 hours shall have been completed during the 6 months preceding the pre-entry flight test set out in FCL.930.FI(a);

(4) have completed a VFR cross-country flight as PIC, including a flight of at least 540 km (300 NM) in the course of which full stop landings at 2 different aerodromes shall be made;

Then there's the FI(A) course to pass (some of the prerequisites may be obtained whilst training for the FI certificate, provided that they have all been completed before application is made).

Once all that's been completed, yes, a PPL/FI may teach for the NPPL(SSEA) and LAPL(A) for remuneration.

[Trim Stab]

I wonder what impact this will have on future requirements by FTOs for CPL/CRI/IRIs?

Effectively, PPL instruction has now become a "hobby" for other PPLs who presumably have another profession to support their family.

Even before these new rules it was difficult to earn any remuneration as an FI, and now it will be even harder. I can't see many CPL holders being interested in becoming an FI, given that it is now a completely uneconomical investment.

[Mickey Kaye]

I wonder if it will not have a positive impact on ATOs and flight training in general.

For someone of restricted financial means would this not give them a more cost effective route to obtain remuneration from flying.

Also wouldn't one of this PPL/FI be alot less likely to fail a CPL check ride when they have say got 700 hours under there belt rather than 200?

[Level Attitude]

Also wouldn't one of this PPL/FI be alot less likely to fail a CPL check ride when they have say got 700 hours under there belt rather than 200?

I think this is irrelevant.
A certain standard of flying is required both to pass a CPL Skill Test and
to pass an FI Test.
(NB: Is the FI Course pre-entry flight test still required under EASA?)
(NNB: Having re-read BEagle's Post #10 the answer is: Yes)

Most people who had just passed their CPL test would have no problem
passing the FI Course pre-entry flight test - I think a lot of, even
experienced, PPL holders would.

An FI, even with 700 hours of experience, would still need to do
the CPL course prior to the CPL Skill Test and this would bring them up
to exam standard, not their previous instructional experience.

[Level Attitude]

The CAA has now confirmed that an FI(A) who meets part-FCL LAPL-level requirements may instruct for the NPPL(SSEA) as well as for the LAPL(A).

For any organisations that only teach for the NPPL this is good.

Unless, and until, all leisure flying (PPL/LAPL/NPPL) instruction can be
done by a PPL FI with no additional requirements (ie CPL level knowledge)
then I cannot see RFs/ATOs (that also teach for PPLs) wanting to employ
instructors who do not have CPL level knowledge.

Unless a student is certain (ie medical issues) that they will not want
a PPL then I cannot see a use for these instructors.

Even a Trial Lesson cannot be done by them, in case student comes
back/goes on to complete a PPL (Ex 3 being a required PPL Exercise)

It would all become a complete "Buggers Muddle" with the student being
required to either redo flight exercises with an appropriately qualified FI
or forced to continue with their original aim of gaining an NPPL or LAPL
and then having to go through the conversion process(es).

[Level Attitude]

An applicant for an FI certificate shall:

(a) in the case of the FI(A) and FI(H):

(1) have received at least 10 hours of instrument flight instruction on the appropriate aircraft category, of which not more than 5 hours may be instrument ground time in an FSTD;

Something for IMC Instructors to do if the IMC/IR(R) cannot be saved?

[RVR800]

Level Attitude - Buggers muddle (That is right)

The PUT hours for a student log book would have to be tallied up by instructor competencies in order to comply with these rules - then someone at the Belgrano would have to unpick all this in the administrative hub that is FCL - of course that will lead to a completely seamless process I am sure with no unforseen consequences :=

[Level Attitude]

then someone at the Belgrano would have to unpick all this in the administrative hub that is FCL

Nothing to do with the CAA.

It is an ATO/RF that has to state, in Section 9, of a PPL application
that a course of training according to Part-FCL has been completed.

Totally the ATO's responsibility. That is why I do not think they will be
very keen to employ a mix of both PPL and "Sub-PPL" Instructors.

[xrayalpha]

It all seems complex, but according to my analysis posted in the Private Pilots section, it would only take a few more hours to go Micro, SSEA, LAPL and SEP than SEP direct.

To make life easier, I copy the post which also has the extracts from CAP 804 etc.

**********************************

For the benefit of Ross, and anyone else who wants to spend their hard-earned cash in the aviation industry, here are the extracts. (if I wanted to learn to fly and explore all the options, just downloading CAP 804 would put me off!

Plus I have added the NPPL Micro to NPPL SSEA.

I will try and sum it up first:

NPPL Micro:

Min hours 25 (for full licence) and 15 for restricted. But on our C42, really a light aircraft in most ways, look at more than that.

NPPL medical.

Microlight Exams.

To get SSEA added to NPPL Micro: (Provided one has 32 hours flying time)

Minimum of three hours extra training (1hr instrument appreciation, 2 hrs stall/spin awareness)

One Part-FCL wrtten exam (Aircraft General)

To get LAPL from NPPL SSEA

Have some knowledge of something - don't know what it is, how to find it or how it is assessed.

Apply for licence.

For LAPL to SEP:

15 hours in aeroplanes since you got the LAPL, 10 of which must be flight training at a FTO (so some flying schools may not count if they are the old registered training facility type?) and at least 4 of the 10 hours must be solo, etc.

If you don't already have a radio licence, you must get one at this stage.

So:

"Straight" route: = minimum 45 hours and radio licence

"Convoluted" route: = NPPL (M) - NPPL (SSEA) - LAPL - SEP = minimum 25 hours, plus 3 hours, (plus 4 more if needing to "top up" to 32 hours) plus 0 hours plus 15 hours plus radio licence = 47 hours.

So just two hours more. (on rarely achieved minima)




For NPPL Micro to NPPL SSEA)

NPPL(Microlight) or UK PPL (Microlight) to NPPL (SSEA)
The holder of a valid NPPL with Microlight Class Rating or UK PPL (M) licence without restrictions
who wishes to obtain a SSEA Class Rating shall:
a. Produce the NPPL or UK PPL (M);
b. Produce logbook evidence of currency on Microlight aircraft;
c Carry out such SSEA conversion training as is judged necessary by the FI(A) or CRI(SPA)
conducting the training to achieve the required standard for the applicant to take the NPPL
NST and GST in a SSEA. This training must include:
(1) Not less than 1 hour of dual instrument appreciation;
(2) 2 hours stall awareness/spin avoidance training;
(3) Differences training for Microlight pilots whose Microlight flying has been solely on
flexwing aircraft;
(4) Not less than the 32 hours required minimum total flight time for the NPPL with SSEA
Class Rating, which may be a combination of both Microlight and SSEA flying.
d. Pass the Part-FCL PPL (A) theoretical examination in Aircraft (General) & Principles of Flight;
e. Hold a valid NPPL Medical Declaration or Part-MED LAPL, Class 1 or 2 medical certificate;
f. Pass the NPPL NST and GST in a SSEA.
For the holder of a PPL (M) with operating restrictions, the requirements shall further include:
g. The whole of the navigation training required for the NPPL with SSEA Class Rating;
h. The completion of a minimum of 10 hours total solo flying which may be a combination of
Microlight and SSEA flying. NPPL/XC/REV 10 dated 17 Sep 2012
3
An applicant who has commenced training for a NPPL with Microlight Class Rating, but who elects to
train for the NPPL with SSEA Class Rating before qualifying as a Microlight pilot may claim all those
hours of Microlight training on either control system undertaken in the previous 6 months as
allowances against training for the NPPL with SSEA Class Rating subject to the following provisos:
a. The minimum requirement of 10 hours solo must be flown in a single-engine piston aeroplane
for the grant of a NPPL with SSEA Class Rating;
b. The minimum requirement of 32 hours of flying instruction required for the NPPL may consist
of a combination of Microlight and SSEA training;
c. The whole of the navigation training required for the NPPL with SSEA Class Rating must be
completed.

For NPPL (SSEA) to LAPL:


Licence previously
issued under the ANO
Conversion to
Part-FCL Licence Requirements
NPPL(A)(SSEA) LAPL(A) with
Single Engine
Piston aeroplane
endorsement
1.
2.
3.
Hold an NPPL(A) with SSEA rating;
Hold an LAPL medical certificate (or Class 1 or
Class 2 medical certificate) issued in
accordance with Part MED (MED.A.030). Any
limitation arising from the holder’s medical
status will appear on the medical certificate;
To be issued with a UK Flight Radiotelephony
Operator’s Licence an individual must fulfil the
EASA Language Proficiency Requirements for
Flight Crew at Level 4, 5, or 6. Whilst the pilot
licence can be obtained without meeting EASA
Language Proficiency Requirements for Flight
Crew, a person without a UK Flight
Radiotelephony Operator’s Licence is not
authorised to use a radio in an aircraft. The
holder of an existing valid UK Flight
Radiotelephony Operator’s Licence will be
accepted as qualifying for a Level 4 (expiring)
language proficiency endorsement;
27 July 2012CAP 804 Part I Flight Crew Licensing: Mandatory Requirements, Policy and Guidance
Section 4 Part P Page 12
NPPL(A)(SSEA)
continued
LAPL(A) with
Single Engine
Piston aeroplane
endorsement
4.
5.
6.
Have knowledge of the sections of Part-OPS
and Part-FCL relevant to the LAPL(A) – in
accordance with A.1(b) of Annex II to the EASA
Aircrew Regulation;
If the applicant has not completed 6 hours pilot
in command of SSEAs since being granted the
NPPL(A) with SSEA rating, comply with
FCL.105.A(b) – LAPL(A) Privileges and
Conditions on issue of the Part-FCL LAPL(A) in
order to be entitled to carry passengers. i.e:
FCL.105.A LAPL(A) – Privileges and
conditions
(b) Holders of an LAPL(A) shall only carry
passengers after they have completed, after
the issuance of the licence, 10 hours of
flight time as PIC on aeroplanes or TMG.
Flight as PIC completed since the issue of the
NPPL(A) shall be credited towards fulfilling this
requirement.

For LAPL to SEP

(b)Specific requirements for applicants holding an LAPL(A). Applicants for a PPL (A)
holding an LAPL(A) shall have completed at least 15 hours of flight time on
aeroplanes after the issue of the LAPL (A), of which at least 10 shall be flight
instruction completed in a training course at an ATO. This training course shall
include at least 4 hours of supervised solo flight time, including at least 2 hours
of solo cross-country flight time with at least 1 cross-country flight of at least
270 km (150 NM), during which full stop landings at 2 aerodromes different from
the aerodrome of departure shall be made.

The "straight route" is:

(a) Applicants for a PPL(A) shall have completed at least 45 hours of flight
instruction in aeroplanes, 5 of which may have been completed in an FSTD,
including at least:
(1) 25 hours of dual flight instruction; and
(2) 10 hours of supervised solo flight time, including at least 5 hours of solo
cross-country flight time with at least 1 cross-country flight of at least
270 km (150 NM), during which full stop landings at 2 aerodromes different
from the aerodrome of departure shall be made

*********

Am I correct in all this?

[sapperkenno]

Without wanting to go round in circles, and disappear up my own eArse-hole trying to understand this muddle...

We're saying that as an ICAO (FAA) Flight Instructor, I'll be able to do a EASA FI course to become a FI(R), but only teach for the NPPL/LAPL, and there is no set minimum standard, just as recommended by an ATO then pass a test with an FIE. This I'm happy with, and aim to have done within the next few weeks.

Does anyone know if a similar thing exists to become an IRI?? As I'm a CFII (ie, a FAA IRI) too, would there be a similar route to becoming an IRI?

Is the definition of CPL Theoretical Knowledge still taken to mean passes in all the EASA CPL exams (or ATPL exams) or could it be argued that as a holder of a ICAO CPL/IR, and as somebody allowed to instruct commercial pilots under the FAA system, then maybe I do have CPL theoretical knowledge after all, albeit not having paid through the nose and wasted 650+ hours of my time to get the European gold-plated (and supposedly safer) version of CPL knowledge?!

And finally, what is the end goal of EASA? Is it to become a sort of European FAA, with all the various countries becoming regional offices (similar to FSDOs), or will the various CAAs still keep up their own take on things and have various differing rules, regulations and charges etc instead of just having everything as EASA and the whole of Europe follow the same rules?

[Piper.Classique]

And finally, what is the end goal of EASA?

To put an end to GA worldwide and provide gold plated jobs for eurocrats?

[Whopity]

If you don't already have a radio licence, you must get one at this stage.
Since when has it been mandatory to hold a FRTOL when applying for a PPL? It can't be an EASA requirements as its a National licence! I don't see anything in the ANO that mandates it! Standards Doc 19 Para 2.1.8 states that an applicant for a PPL Skill Test must have passed the RT written paper, but that is all. As that counts as one of the 9 EASA PPL exams that is no surprise. I still see no legal requirement to hold a FRTOL.

Whilst the pilot
licence can be obtained without meeting EASA
Language Proficiency Requirements for Flight
Crew, a person without a UK Flight
Radiotelephony Operator’s Licence is not
authorised to use a radio in an aircraft.Except as a student pilot (Art 51), or when acting under the supervision of the holder of such a licence (Schedule to the aircraft radio licence) and CAP 804 Section 6 Part A Para 1.1!

[much2much]

it,s all a lot of the usual muddle,but been a old sort ,i can remember when there were a lot of ppl instructor ,who were chasing the 700, hour in search of "a better life"economically any how:
Then those ppl club instructors content to stay there , given bcpl,golly when i started there were ppl, cpl senior commercial and atpl ,scrape scpl, intro bcpl , scrape bcpl ,remove f/o privileges on heavy aircraft for cpl. THEN Jaa EASa ,ON AND ON AND ON,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
Thinking about this my self, renewing ppl,and f/i (medical limitation prohibit professional licence renewal) but my R/T is not valid for life as was my ppl/a , since it was transferred to my cpl,atpl, which has expired , but i still have the"knowledge,as for f.i,: my rt is fine, but my d long sin lat is long(titude) past,:ugh:not trying to make any sense of it , but it just gets worse, except for MR bureaucratic.