The MA700 by Avic, Chinese plane on its own!

[Racine1026]

The MA700: an AVIC program waiting for the Central Government support! (http://www.inplanes1ght.com/2013/01/07/the-ma700-an-avic-program-waiting-for-the-central-government-support/)

The MA700 by Avic is surprisingly competitive for its class. However with no market in China for a turboprop like this, and without government funding the MA700 could be the first A/C to come out China coming from a self funded program. This means a Chinese A/c company would be behaving like Airbus and Boeing. They would feel real world pressures in the financial market! Definitely could change the game in Asia

[Cyrano]

On what basis do you feel it is "surprisingly competitive"? Are there fuel consumption or operating cost figures available? The aircraft has been talked about for four years or more; if it is based on the MA600, "competitive" is not an adjective I would use, and if it is a new design, it is still perhaps 3-4 years from entry into service. I wouldn't label it a "game changer" just yet!

[toffeez]

Maybe the most difficult step would be to convince potential clients that their customer service will be like Airbus and Boeing's.

Without western-style product support, they will only sell to friends and family.

[Racine1026]

Surprisingly competitive I mean its a Chinese A/C unlike the ARJ21 project. The aircraft has orders from outside suppliers in Africa. In terms of weight, speed, cursing altitude it can compete with certain ATR models. However I will agree with you on the unclearity of "Surprisingly competitive".

Also they will need to rely heavily on the outside suppliers they already provide to. The benefit could be strong in Chinese aviation's favor because they will have to rely on western business styles to be successful with no gov backing. So by learning western tactics they could move deeper into africa, and maybe soon into Europe and the Americas. But maybe I am getting carried away here...

[Torquelink]

It looks like an ATR72 and, presumably, will have current generation engines. Likely to enter service just as ATR and Bombardier get going with next generation turboprops so unlikley to feature significantly on the global market.

I'm interested to know what its optimum cursing altitude is. In my experience this seems pretty constant regardless of FL!

[SMT Member]

Looks like an ATR clone to my eyes as well, in which case they've successfully managed to reverse engineer 20+ year old technology and hang a couple of current generation engines off it. Congratulations, but unless the price delta between this and a real ATR are more or less the same as a Geely vs a Volkswagen, I'm not at all convinced they'll sell very many outside friends and family. And even that's pushing it.

[nitpicker330]

ATR 72 copy??? The ATR has a T Tail for a start. :{

Looks more like a F50:ok:

[Rocket2]

ATR 72 copy???

Antonov copy more like

[DaveReidUK]

they've successfully managed to reverse engineer 20+ year old technologyYou're being generous. It's a several times warmed-over development of the 1960-something Antonov An-24 (via the Y-7, MA60 and MA600).

http://english.people.com.cn/mediafile/201211/14/F201211141238211633211643.jpg

Incidentally, Wikipedia reckons it has 4 engines. :ugh:

Xian MA700 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xian_MA700)

[Cyrano]

Surprisingly competitive I mean its a Chinese A/C unlike the ARJ21 project. The aircraft has orders from outside suppliers in Africa.

I think you'll find the Chinese are offering aircraft for free as part of their aid packages to some African countries in exchange for mining rights, trade deals, etc. That's a bit different to an airline (in Africa or elsewhere) making an objective evaluation of MA700 versus ATR versus Q400 and choosing MA700. I know that MA600s (which is a type that has actually flown) have been offered to Cameroon, for example, but given the fact that the MA700 was proposed six years ago and is still a paper project, I'm not sure how many mining concessions or new bridges or harvests it's actually worth...

Rather than being a game changer, I think "yesterday's technology tomorrow" would be a more accurate tagline.

[ohnutsiforgot]

In the picture above, the engineers have obviously taken offense at comparisons to the ATR and removed the stabilizer entirely.

[DaveReidUK]

http://www.cannews.com.cn/uploadfile/2013/0121/20130121010226170.jpg

[Racine1026]

Pertaining to the Ma 600 inclusion in outside deals for mining rights. This form of marketing is not a bad way to build product image. You build a record of the aircraft outside China, you establish recognition, you expand.

The question is more with financing. Without government support the mining rights deals wont work. They need a new strategy. Can they do it? and by trying would they change Chinese aircraft marketing as a whole?

[Anti Skid On]

The Chinese are apparently very interested in purchasing the Tiwai aluminium smelt in Invercargill, reportedly produces the best aluminium available. Wonder why they'd want that

[Marc1985]

The author of the first article, posted a follow up on the financing and the future of MA 700. Btw it is not a bad looking plane but that could be because of the model color scheme haha

Heres the link...
The MA700′s financial support: rumors and facts! (http://www.inplanes1ght.com/2013/01/11/the-ma700s-financial-support-rumors-and-facts/)

[FlightlessParrot]

How much can you actually tell about the technology of an aircraft in this class from a model? This is a genuine question. If you designed a modern turbo-prop with composite construction, modern electronics and modern engines (but NiCad batteries, just to be on the safe side), would it have to look radically different from a Fokker Friendship?

[nitpicker330]

Well I'm confused!!
The first link showed an Aircraft that looked like a F50
Now the latest links show one that does indeed look like an ATR72


Ahhhhhhhhhhhh I just realised my mistake, the first link was a photo of the 600 not the 700.......:ok:

[keesje]

There a long standing tradition of underestimating any aircraft from China. In recent years that let to a few surprizes, capable platform that seem hard to dismiss as just copies. Imo the chinese are perfectly capable of producing a good TP. It all appears to come down to financing.

http://i191.photobucket.com/albums/z160/keesje_pics/ChineseAircraftDevelopment_zps68950d67.jpg

[Racine1026]

I could not agree more. The Chinese are really aggressively going after the aircraft market. There big issue is engines. They cant make good engines. So the contract GE (c919 engines) and so on. But when it comes to the copy idea. Does that matter? If it looks like something else okay but the technology is different. And when it comes to china they outsource for the flight data systems and almost all other technology. They are getting serious about building a plane.

Also Marc that's another good article but it still means there basically getting local government funding not central government funding. Its like Oregon sponsoring the 737 but the US federal government not. It is not enough to call them a stat project