Help me decide what aircraft to buy.

[rpetersson]

Hi,

Im looking to buy a highperformence aircraft. Heres what im looking after:



Cruise around 180-200 kts.
Economical - Diesel engine preferably. (MOGAS is also ok)
RG
2 seats.+
Envelope around 6g. for utility cat.
50-100k $

Anyone know any airplanes that match these criterias? LSA/Light aircraft doesn't matter.

[A and C]

I can't remember the name of the aircraft but I do know that it is milled from billets of pure Unobtainium.

[Jonty]

Do you want certified or permit?

A Lancair or a Falco would fit the bill on a permit.

[bingoboy]

Glasair maybe

[Echo Romeo]

I know just the thing !
I can't remember the name of the aircraft but I do know that it is milled from billets of pure Unobtainium.

Very good :D

[Silvaire1]

A Long Eze might work. Less expensive than the budget but needs a hard runway of good length.

[dont overfil]

A Tucano should do the job. Just need to find another three quarters of a million quid.

D.O.

[172driver]

As A&C said......:(

[Brian Abraham]

You always have to have trade offs in whatever you desire. Some features may be more important than others. Having said that the SR-71 meets most of your requirements.

Cruise around 180-200 kts. (Check, 1,800 knot cruise, oh sorry, you said 180)
Economical - Diesel engine preferably. (MOGAS is also ok) (Check, if you own an oil well)
RG (Check)
2 seats.+ (Check)
Envelope around 6g. for utility cat. (Sorry, quite a bit less)
50-100k $ (Check, they were giving them away for free)

[Ebbie 2003]

Some funny replies here.

Your specification is rather unrealistic.

Are you a pilot - do you know anything about aircraft? No 200kt airplane can be an LSA.

No 200kt airplane can be 'economic' in absolute terms - it can be economic compared to other 200kt airplanes.

Some of the airplanes suggested can sustain 200kts but not at a reasonable power setting - you'll eat your engine running over 75% - assuming that you want to make your TBO.

At non-oxygen levels you're not going to be able to run above 200kts - so I see you're in Norway - where are you planning to go where those sorts of speeds are going to be needed.

That said - here's an option Jet Provost - buy a good one for under $100,000 - Jet A1 - 200kts easy - 2 seats - 6g plus - RG - economic (not so much per hour - depends where you are - how many hours you fly - but with a little imagination you could get the cost down, rental to other would be TopGuns and for display and you may find you can generate a surplus to make your couple of dozen hours cost nothing).

Silly point but how close are to to the airport where it would be based, how close to your destination airport is your final destination. If the answer to both is an hour or so each end and your home airport/destination airport is short (under 200 miles) - the percentage time saving overall is minor for a 200kt compared to a 140kt - throw in some international travel and the benefit of speed reduces further.

Question of whether you can fly it will depend on a lot of factors and where you're planning to fly.

Overall - if you're planning long trips - all of Easy Jet's fleet will meet all of your criteria and so, so, so much cheaper!

[AdamFrisch]

You should look at a twin. That will be pretty much the only thing you can get in to that will go that fast under $100K. The very few singles that will do it are all over $100K and the list is short - Mooney, maybe. Diesel can be forgotten - it will be an old Avgas burner. A Piper Aerostar will get you to 200kts and can be had for just about $100K. So will a Beechcraft Duke. A turbo 310, a Seneca or a Baron might also get you there or at least close.

[Jonty]

Overall - if you're planning long trips - all of Easy Jet's fleet will meet all of your criteria and so, so, so much cheaper!

But much, much, much less fun!

[A and C]

Being an easy jet commuter I have found over the last few weeks the prices creeping up to the point that if I fill all four seats on my DR400 it becomes more economic.

The added advantage is that I don't fail to get on my aircraft as I don't overbook like Easyjet.

Retuning to the thread, the specification is unrealistic with any foreseeable technology, the Falco would be the closest to the requirement simply because it falls short no all counts by less than the others.

[Tankengine]

So how are your flight time limitations if you commute to work?:confused::eek:

[A and C]

Not affected as my base is where I commute to by easy jet.

[rpetersson]

"Some of the airplanes suggested can sustain 200kts but not at a reasonable power setting - you'll eat your engine running over 75% - assuming that you want to make your TBO."

-Glasair III ( And i think i wrote 180-200 kts in my requirements.?)
75% at 8,000 ft 258 mph / 224 knots 65% at 8,000 ft 248 mph / 216 knots

"Are you a pilot - do you know anything about aircraft? No 200kt airplane can be an LSA."

- Yes I have hold my PPL certificate for almost 2 years now. Renewal coming up in May for SEP. However i did not know about the maximum speed for LSA, thanks for enlighting me!

"No 200kt airplane can be 'economic' in absolute terms - it can be economic compared to other 200kt airplanes."

- Well this depends on how you look at things. If i often visit my relatives in Sweden about 200 nm away. In a PA28 thats 5520 NOK. (calculating rougly 4 hours) there and back.

If i make the same trip with the same fuel cost in a Glasair i would cut my trip cost in half cruising at 8000 feet.

+ That i can run the Glasair on MOGAS.

"Overall - if you're planning long trips - all of Easy Jet's fleet will meet all of your criteria and so, so, so much cheaper! "

- Yes, and your point beeing? Thats like saying I can take the train instead of driving my car. I dont understand your argument.

[rpetersson]

In short looking at the Glasair III it would be the perfect aircraft except for the engine.

[piperboy84]

That said - here's an option Jet Provost

Yeah and you could use the jet provost to visit the house in the Bahamas your insurance agent bought with that bit fat cheque you wrote him for coverage. Not sure how the credit card swipe would work during air to air refuelling though.

We all started out trying to marry the very best attributes of different machines to get our"dream" plane, when we get right down to it the reality is price, insurance, flying skills, operating costs, utility and mission dictate that 95% of us (non lottery winners) end up with a 100 knot tops, under 200hp, lycoming or rotax in a 2 or 4 seat LSA or spamcam and that fits the bill just nicely. For the kind of money you are looking to spend the real decisions you will have to make is can I score a deal on a nice used plane that has the icing on the cake features such as CSP or sh&t hot avionics or even a low/zero time engine.

Good luck and remember there is a bunch of fun and knowledge to be had during the search for the aircraft.

[A and C]

If a Glassair is what you want be very carefull when you buy a home build.

A few years back we fixed a home build that had been imported from the USA, the build quality of the parts of this aircraft varied from just about good enough to death trapp and resulted in lots of extra work to make it safe and a good looking at from the LAA.

As an LAA inspector I have seen both the very best of workmanship and a compleat disregard of proper construction techniques, please look very carefully before parting with your money.

[rpetersson]

Yes i agree theres issues with buying homebuilt kitplanes.. Need to be very carefull indeed.

[Jonty]

I would agree with the point about importing an aircraft from the US.

However, if an aircraft has a current permit from the LAA then it should be up to scratch, one would hope.

[Silvaire1]

If i often visit my relatives in Sweden about 200 nm away. In a PA28 thats 5520 NOK. (calculating rougly 4 hours) there and back.

That's not much of a job for a Long Eze - I met a guy who flew one from Hawaii to California :) So again, with an O-235 sipping auto fuel like a C152, cruising at something not too far below your goal, it's an aircraft that was designed to do what you're wanting to do.... if you have hard runways. About $40K for a nice one.

[Jonty]

The problem with non certified aircraft in Europe is the weather. Certainly in the UK they are limited to day VFR only. Makes them somewhat restrictive.

[Choxolate]

you have to factor a lot more than fuel cost.
Hangarage
Insurance
Servicing
Annuals
.. plus incidentals on top. Tyres, oil, repairs etc. etc

These added together will almost certainly exceed your fuel cost per hour unless you fly at least 100+ hours per year

[172driver]

Well, coming to think of it, there actually is an airplane that pretty much fits your bill: Marchetti 260 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aermacchi_SF.260). They are pretty rare (in the civilian version), but go like hell and are fully aerobatic. Not sure about the economics, though.

[A and C]

Economics........Marchetti........same thread...........me going to lay down in a dark room ,

[rpetersson]

"you have to factor a lot more than fuel cost.
Hangarage
Insurance
Servicing
Annuals
.. plus incidentals on top. Tyres, oil, repairs etc. etc"


- Are you implying that these costs would be higher than for a PA28?

[A and C]

While you opinion that an aircraft with a current LAA permit would be OK is well founded some do slip through the net.

It was the wing tip strobe electrical cables routed through a length of (leaking) garden hose in the wing tip fuel tank that got my attention on one USA import.

[Tinstaafl]

Piss poor standard. How hard can it be to find a length of non-leaking garden hose?

[englishal]

In Norway you'd want an IR and deice :) how about an older Seneca, what with all that terrain around? Probably cheaper than owning a car in Norway !

[tommoutrie]

get a nice RV-4 with a 160 or a 180 on the front. That's fast enough.

[avionimc]

Pipistrel Virus or Sinus is my choice. Fast, very efficient, ideal for cross-country flying. In 2012 a Pipistrel Virus completed a long westbound flight around the world (from/to Slovenia via Senegal, Antarctica, Easter Island, New Zealand, Mt. Everest, Seychelles, etc.). Average fuel burn was 4.78 gph in 369 hours flown. The total distance was 49,138 nm, 17,873 of which were above water. The average ground speed was a little over 133 knots with an average headwind of 12 knots. The highest recorded GS was 190 knots and the highest recorded altitude was 29,413 feet near Mt. Everest. (sources: Flying Magazine (http://www.flyingmag.com/pipistrel-virus-proves-efficiency-around-world#2PhqmLBK570wuG3Q.99), Full Itinerary (http://www.worldgreenflight.com/knjiznica/pr/GLWF_ITINERARY_up_to_date_10.pdf), GreenLight WorldFlight | North Pole - Why (http://www.worldgreenflight.com/))

[wsmempson]

Why would someone who specified an aircraft capable of 180-200kts be interested in a Pipistrel Virus? Seriously, do take the time to read the original question...:ugh:

[Barcli]

You could have a look at a Harmon Rocket ?

[A and C]

The Harmon Rocket seems on the face of things to be an attractive idea but the rear cockpit is very cramped and more important the RV4 it is derived from can have issues with the firewall structure, given the extra weight of the O-540 this is likely to be an issue even with the extra structure to support the bigger engine.

On the whole I think it is just a bit too much power and likely to upset the balance of the very nice RV4.

[hugh flung_dung]

You could buy my Arrow 2 instead, which is currently "priced to sell". Admittedly, it's not quite as fast as your spec (and not 6g) but with the price difference you could operate two aircraft - one for travel and one for aeros.

HFD