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PPRuNeUser0173
9th Mar 2013, 08:56
Please can someone elaborate what exactly the requirements are for the supervision of these instructors and where I can find the regulations? Thanks for your help.

S-Works
9th Mar 2013, 09:38
Its an unrestricted FI(A) who has been briefed and approved by the Head of Training/CFI.

There was a document on the CAA website that for the life of me I can't find at the moment that covered supervision of Instructors. I will keep digging!

RTN11
9th Mar 2013, 10:21
The requirement is that you have to be supervised by an unrestricted FI(A).

How this supervision is administered is largely left up to interpretation. I've taught at schools where your supervising instructor would sit in on a number of your briefs, and even back seat occasional flights, right down to other schools where someone could be "supervising" you from home, while you're the only instructor at the airfield.

Each school should have their own policy in place, and this should hopefully be clear in their flying order book.

PPRuNeUser0173
9th Mar 2013, 11:20
Bose-x - please keep digging and thanks for your efforts.
RTN - I believe remote supervision is a regular occurance at lots of schools but I think that is not legal. I thought the supervising instructor had to be at the school. As for backseating and attending briefings is that not standardisation?

Curtis E Carr
9th Mar 2013, 11:57
Note sure if this helps.

From Annex I to Commission Regulation (EU) No 1178/2011:

FCL.910.FI FI Restricted privileges

(a) An FI shall have his/her privileges limited to conducting flight instruction under the supervision of an FI for the same category of aircraft nominated by the ATO for this purpose, in the following cases:

etc

From Annex VII to Commission Regulation (EU) No 290/2012:

ORA.ATO.210 Personnel requirements
(a) [...]

(b) Chief flight instructor (CFI). The ATO providing flight instruction shall nominate a CFI who shall be responsible for the supervision of flight and flight simulation training instructors and for the standardisation of all flight instruction and flight simulation instruction. The CFI shall hold the highest professional pilot licence and associated ratings related to the flight training courses conducted and hold an instructor certificate with the privilege to instruct for at least one of the training courses provided.

From AMC/GM to Part ORA:

AMC2 ORA.ATO.210 Personnel requirements

QUALIFICATION OF HEAD OF TRAINING AND CHIEF FLIGHT INSTRUCTOR

(a) [...]

(b) Chief flight instructor (CFI)

(1) The CFI may delegate standardisation and supervision to the flight instructors. In all cases it is the CFI who is ultimately responsible for ensuring quality and standards.

RTN11
9th Mar 2013, 12:22
I've never seen a legal document stating exactly what is meant by supervision, therefore it is always open to interpretation. If an FI feels he is able to supervise from home, with a report of what happened during the day, then I would say that is legal. This is working on the principle that something is legal unless a document specifically states it is not.

Certainly, the CAA have issued some guidance in the past, but it was only ever advice and not legally binding that the FI must be present at the airfield. This is much like the arguments over letting a passenger have a go on the controls when you only have a PPL, or whether you should be on the ground when you send a student solo, you can argue all day but there is no guidance in the law, so it is all open to interpretation, and whatever the school/cfi is happy with.

Whopity
9th Mar 2013, 15:12
I've never seen a legal document stating exactly what is meant by supervision, therefore it is always open to interpretation. Then start with the ANO Schedule 7. This is what it says for an AFI and there are still some left:Assistant flying instructor's rating

(2) (a) Such instruction must only be given under the supervision of a person present
during the take-off and landing at the aerodrome at which the instruction is to
begin and end and who holds a pilot's licence endorsed with a flying instructor's
rating entitling the holder to instruct on an aircraft of the same type or class as
the aircraft on which instruction is being given.

The document that Bose is looking for is a CAA TrainingCom (now out of date) which included the above reference together with the JAA one which was less specific. The latter was removed from the ANO in Aug 2012 and replaced by the legal reference for an EASA rating as Curtis has stated above.

RTN11
9th Mar 2013, 15:26
That's all well and good, but we're not discussing an AFI rating, we are discussing an FI(A) rating.

An AFI rating is a whole separate thing, with different requirements to be met before you get a full instructors rating (ie, drop the A from AFI), and these days only really applies to microlight instructors who's experience levels are going to be nowhere near that of someone with a CPL teaching PPL on an SEP aircraft.

An FI(A) rating is only restricted until the requirements are met, and you have a sign off from an FI(A) saying he thinks you're OK. The legal text may well hold true if you have an AFI rating, but if you have an FI(A) rating, there is nothing illegal about being supervised by someone who is not at the airfield.

Obviously this comes down to the discretion of the club, and a brand new instructor in his first month will require closer supervision than someone who has been doing it for a year but only has 24 solo sign offs, hence why the CAA have only issued guidance rather than putting something hard into the law.

Whopity
9th Mar 2013, 16:11
An AFI rating is a whole separate thing, with different requirements to be met before you get a full instructors ratingSince 1999 the requirements for an AFI to upgrade are exactly the same as an FI(R). A number did not achieve this and some have returned to instructing so there are a number about.

Under EASA its not for the CAA to provide guidance any more. ATOs will be required to specify in their manuals what is required and in the meantime RFs will be able to decide as they wish however; it would ultimately be up to a court to decide if their interpretation of supervision was appropriate if there was an accident involving supervision.

PPRuNeUser0173
9th Mar 2013, 16:37
Thanks everyone for your help so far

Level Attitude
9th Mar 2013, 17:17
RTN11
I am sure you are just paraphrasing but, as there is still much confusion
between what Part-FCL now requires and what was required prior to
17 Sep 2012:

An FI(A) rating is only restricted until the requirements are met, and you have a sign off
from an FI(A) saying he thinks you're OK.

Previously a CFI/HoT (not an FI(A)) would need to recomend that the supervisory restriction
be removed.
There is no such requirement under EASA: If an Instructor meets the
hours/sign offs they can apply to to have the restriction removed
even if everyone they have met/worked with thinks they are
rubbish.

RTN11
9th Mar 2013, 17:44
Previously a CFI/HoT (not an FI(A)) would need to recomend that the supervisory restriction
be removed.

It didn't have the be CFI or HoT. It had to be an unrestricted instructor who was on the books of the flying school, who was nominated by the school to supervise restricted instructors. I wasn't aware that this had changed under EASA, since it no longer applies to me I hadn't read that section.

Still, no definitive text has been produced as to what is expected when an unrestricted instructor is supervising a restricted one. The AFI stuff simply doesn't apply to this rating, and the only AFI rating issued these days would be for microlights. There have been no accidents to take this to court to get a ruling, so the schools must be doing a pretty good job of interpreting the rules and mitigating the risk, even if that means that you are being supervised by someone who is at home. A bit like a junior doctor being left to it on a night shift with a consultant on call at home in bed.

Curtis E Carr
9th Mar 2013, 18:14
The supervising flight instructor is required to sign for each flight/air exercise he/she has supervised on the form SRG 1133R.

Other than the above, I cannot see where any further signature or sign off is required on the part of the HoT, CFI or anyone else.

BillieBob
10th Mar 2013, 08:55
As Whopity explained, the means of supervision will have to be described in the ATO's documentation and approved by the competent authority. Continued approval will depend on compliance with the approved documentation. This is potentially more prescriptive than before as the competent authority is able to approve only the level and means of supervision that it finds acceptable.

Consequently, since approval will only be granted if the proposed supervisory process is acceptable to the competent authority, they would clearly prefer that there is no definition of 'supervision' in law. Such is the myth of a level playing field.

Mojave_90
18th Aug 2013, 12:31
Hello everybody

I found this interesting thread and I also have a question about the supervisory restriction.

I currently work for 2 aeroclubs and I have done 20 solo sign-offs so far. Can they be spread between both flight schools or do they all have to be done in one ?

If yes, can both my supervising instructors sign the SRG1133R ?

Thank you in advance for your answers

Cobalt
18th Aug 2013, 22:18
On that form, each individual flight is signed by the supervising instructor, so yes, they can be signed by instructors at different ATOs.

Whopity
19th Aug 2013, 06:27
As you are using the SRG 1133R you obviously have a UK issued licence but, your location is given as France. In the UK the CAA required RFs to nominate FIs who may supervise, FCL.910.FI FI also requires the supervisor to be nominated so make sure that the signatory is so nominated to avoid any later problems.

Mojave_90
19th Aug 2013, 17:58
Alright, it is a good point. In France the flight schools are only beginning to become ATOs. I will see what has to be bone regarding the paperwork.
Thank you for your help (Whopity and Cobalt)

PPRuNeUser0173
22nd Aug 2013, 06:17
Is it allowable for an unrestricted Instructor from school A to "supervise" a restricted Instructor from school B?

downwind24
6th Sep 2013, 20:25
Guy's , as a matter of interest , do you receive an increased hourly rate or set day allowance/rate when you provide supervision to a restricted instructor?

I know most schools do a mixture of both.

Whopity
6th Sep 2013, 20:48
Is it allowable for an unrestricted Instructor from school A to "supervise" a restricted Instructor from school B?A bit like the barman in the Coach and Horses pulling pints in the Red Lion? It will depend upon whatever arrangements are established between the two organisations and their acceptability to the regulator.

Never heard of anyone being paid extra to supervise!