IR test and application

[sunboy]

So I have completed an IR(A) and posses a CPL course completion certificate so only hold a PPL and did a 55 hour IR course with 15hrs actual flight time (excluding about 1hrs 50mins on the skills test itself)

My issue is as follows. As I filled out my CPL/IR application after passing my IR test I tried to be as honest as possible, and I was. In my log book there are 3 separate columns: total time, IFR and IF. Obviously my total time and IFR times are the same throughout my IR training but my IF is different. Being as honest as possible, I knocked off 5 minutes from each flight as we would always do a visual approach back into my home airfield. And we were IFR but obviously not instrument flying.

So here I am applying for my IR and I just realised that although I've met the requirements to do 15 hours in the aircraft, all 15 of those are IFR but about 30 mins of that would not be IF.

Firstly, is this an issue in IR application? Baring in mind I have about 1hrs 50mins on my skills test all IF so will that be ok? Or do the UK CAA want 15 hours IF before skills test? Maybe some of that missing IF time can come from my CPL course?

CAP804 really isn't very clear on things like this...

[tiger88]

Sunboy,

Some interesting items you mention, all of which should have been covered by your flight school.

Firstly; did you do the CPL before the IR? If so you wouldn't have had to do the 55hr IR course as the 10 hours IF from the CPL would have covered 10hrs sim time on the IR making it a 45hr IR course providing you had a CPL course completion certificate, which you state you have. Unless you needed the additional 10hrs off course.

Secondly; taking of only 5 minutes from the IFR time is a little on the unrealistic side if you ask me but if you can get away with that then that saves you some additional flight time. 10 minutes is more realistic as you don't start logging IF until you have departed, from brakes off to airborne is typically 5-10 minutes alone and then add the visual landing and taxi in to brakes on another 5 minutes, obvously depending on the airfield environment you operated at.

I was informed that you are required to have completed 15hrs IF time in the aeroplane during the IR course before sitting the IR test. So typically you would have around 18hrs in the aircraft depending on the number of flights undertaken, to meet the IF portion requirement prior to skills test. I don't think you can credit any of the CPL IF time as this was a different module course of training and was to be used to deduct 10 hours of the IR course to begin with, but then this doesn't appear to be the case with you anyway. However your training provider put you forward for test having confirmed you had completed all the required elements of training and you passed the IR so I would say make the application and see what happens. Sorry this isn't a definitive answer and I am sure someone with clearer advice will be along shortly.

[Level Attitude]

sunboy
There is no such thing as a "55hr IR course".
The standard IR course is of unspecified length, but it must consist of
at least 55 hours of flight by sole reference to instruments (now called
"Instrument Flight Time" under EASA).

This IF flight time certainly doesn't include any visual work such as
taxiing, T/Off, visual approaches, circling to land and landings.

Hence my previous post of 3rd Dec 2012
Any adverts for, say, "55 Hour IR(A) Course" would, in my opinion, be misleading
as course length is not specified - only that 55 Hours Instrument Flight must be
completed - and Taxiing, Take Off and Landing are not done on instruments.

NB: For Sim work, the visual bits are so minimal, I can't see any problem
claiming all Sim time on an IR course as IF.

If you had only 55 hours exactly on your provider's IR course they should not have put
you forward for test as you could not have completed the requirements of an IR course.
As they did, and you passed, you should contact them for advice.

Secondly; taking of only 5 minutes from the IFR time is a little on the unrealistic side
if you ask me but if you can get away with that then that saves you some additional
flight time. 10 minutes is more realistic as you don't start logging IF until you have departed
Don't confuse IFR time and IF time.

A whole flight (Chock to Chock) can be conducted IFR, irrespective of
whether any IF flight took place or not.

[tiger88]

LA,

When I was referring to IFR logged time I was meaning the chock to chock time, so subtract 10-15 minutes to give the IF portion. I should have made that clearer.