Latest VHF com piss-offs!

[Slasher]

The past 2 years have shown a rise in the number of home-made air-ground phraseologies that
are slowly becoming the casually accepted norm. This is especially so around my own stamping
ground of SE Asia.

For example...
Standard - "Dullsville Control ABC123 FL350. Request FL370."
Casual - "Dullsville ABC123 checking in at FL350, and looking for 370."

What with this "checking in" ****? And "looking for"? I'm sometimes tempted to quip "If you look
straight up you'll find its 2,000 feet above you pal!"

Another -
Standard ATC - "ABC123 say final level?"
Standard reply - "ABC123 FL 290"

Casual reply - ABC123 is requesting 290 today."

So when did this "today" crap start? Is he hinting to ATC he won't want the same level tomorrow?

We're all guilty of non-standard phrases on both sides of the mike, but its usually one-off and not
a habit. Its when it gradually becomes accepted that confusion slowly sets in - esp on freqs with
high traffic density. It boils my urine something fierce when some non-standard jerkoff screws up
my climb/descent because ATC is still trying to figure out what exactly he said! http://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:www.pprune.org/get/images/icons/icon8.gif

Anyone else?

[Lord Spandex Masher]

Yes. "ABC123 with you climbing blah heading blah"

With you? You don't say job knockey.

"ABC123 almost nearly fully ready"

Oh and slow the f**k down.

[HEATHROW DIRECTOR]

Slasher... Your language is just as bad as theirs.

[Dufo]

Also:
- in the box
- coming down
- fully ready
- ready when reaching
- in sequence

Monkey see monkey do :E

[ZOOKER]

"Golf Alpha X-Ray Teakettle Barbecue on frequency".
"Golf Alpha X-Ray Teakettle Barbecue on handover", (especially when no co-ordination had been carried out),
always amused me.
Admittedly, this sort of stuff came from tiddlers/noddy-boxes/clockwork mice*, so didn't really mind. Everyone has to start somewhere.

*Delete as applicable.

[reportyourlevel]

And "looking for"? I'm sometimes tempted to quip "If you look
straight up you'll find its 2,000 feet above you pal!"

Oh yes, gets me every time.

"Taxi holding point B2, runway 08". "Oh, we're looking for runway 26."

Well, when you take off from 08 if you look behind you it'll be there.

[Slasher]

fully ready

Yep that's another one - like saying "fully pregnant". :rolleyes:

[seat 0A]

Standard ATC - "ABC123 say final level?"

"Final Level"

[Ninja Controller]

"Bye bye" is a personal bugbear.

"Knobjockey123, contact London Control 123.5 bye bye."
"123.55, Knobjockey123."

A colleague has the habit of saying "No delay today, Heathrow should bring you off." :E

[Hotel Tango]

Many of these non standard "I'm cool" phrases have been going for many years. The one that really grates me is the "fully ready" one. Look pal, you're either ready or not ready!

[fantom]

Around the Orlando area I heard an aircraft cleared to a new level and he replied with his callsign only.

Brilliant.

[eastern wiseguy]

We have it on TCAS.......

[PT6A]

The trouble with "fully ready" is that many airports request and publish for crews to report "fully ready"

So maybe in these circumstances the "offender" is only doing what is published!

[Slasher]

Thing is PT6A I've never seen the phrase "fully ready" in any ICAO document or
AIP - if it were gazetted as such we'd all be saying it. As HT said earlier you're
either ready or not - just as your girlfriend reports either she's pregnant or not.

I spat the dummy not long ago in BKK when TWR asked am I fully ready. I just
refuse to be sucked into this nonsense. This is after I reported "ready" on initial
contact. My reply was "ABC123 ready". ATC then asked "but are you fully ready?"
Again "ABC123 ready". "Confirm fully ready?" "ABC123 ready." "ABC123 I need
know if you fully ready." "ABC123 ready." (by this stage I was lined up with the
TO light on!)

"So you fully ready?"

"ABC123...READY! *

I believe this fully ready crap probably started when pilots have reported ready
thinking the girls will report in very shortly - only to find by line-up they're still
jabbering away on the PA. Just my theory.

* If anyone happened to hear that on TWR for 19L - yep it was me! ;)

[blissbak]

The big deal is not about buddies approaching the holding point, but it usually is more likely to happen during start up when Ready crew do still hold their passengers on the boarding stairs.

[tom775257]

Whilst I don't agree with it, I have certainly seen 'fully ready' mentioned in the Jepps. Even saw it yesterday at Venice:

'Contact APT operator on 131.47 when fully ready to move'

[Thridle Op Des]

From 0530-1300‡ and from 1400-2100‡, call for ATC CLR possible up to 15min before fully ready. ACFT
calling have to use following phraseology:
- "DELIVERY, (Call-sign), (Stand), (Type), (QNH), (received ATIS INFO), REQ CLR only."
Becoming fully ready to start, use following phraseology:
- "(Call-sign), fully ready."

Lifted straight from the charts - don't blame us!

Without wishing to get argumentative (I know - it will look like I am!) part of the issue is we have to cross 36 FIRs from OMDB to KJFK, each ATC sector has their own way of doing things, from an ATC perspective, it could be argued that things are a little more parochial, so you know 'your stuff' (MATS - whatever) and maybe some of the 'stuff' in the adjoining FIRs because you talk to them every day. We get classic comments like "don't you have our AIP in your flight deck" when querying a FL250 descent restriction with 60 miles beyond the restriction to the threshold of the active runway; "Er, no". Sorry if we are aggronoying pilots but sometimes we try not to be idiots but we're not too sure what is the latest form of perceived idiocy.

I was mortified the other day for example: having operated 3 sectors a day into LHR with bmi, I hadn't been to LHR with our lot in the last 6 years. I did my reading and checked the notams but then when asked to call Heathrow Director and falling back into the old ways of "callsign only to director" failed to realise that there are now TWO directors and the first one wanted the Type, level passing, level cleared, ATIS. I missed it so the very patient gent on the other end (thanks - if you are reading this) asked me for the details :ouch:

[Talkdownman]

"callsign only to director"
...ie. when instructed ;)

[mebur_verce]

I believe this fully ready crap probably started when pilots have reported ready thinking the girls will report in very shortly - only to find by line-up they're still jabbering away on the PA. Just my theory.

A reasonable theory, IMHO ;)

[tuskegee airman]

"Bigjet 123 request FL350 if available"

[On the beach]

Many years ago at an airfield somewhere in the "Middle East" there was a "Hicks-from-the-Sticks" Freighter who called:

"Four burnin' an' turnin' ready for the push"

To which a BA captain taxying behind replied:

"Actually, Old Bean, you've got five burnin' an' turnin', as you so quaintly put it. Your APU is on fire"

You gotta love them ol' Southern country boys.

[Ninja Controller]

It always amazes me that in these stories there is always a BA Captain to hand when a slack jawed American needs to be put in their place.

The country boys do provide some entertainment though.
"N123AB no speed restriction, climb FL100"
"Okay let the horses loose and up to the ton, 123 ayy bee"

[500 above]

"Charlie Charlie"...

[172_driver]

Let me guess..

100 % Brits who have posted here so far??

[eastern wiseguy]

Slasher might take exception to being called a Pom!

[crewmeal]

Lets not go down the road of El Al missing some passengers after taxiing at JFK and some wise guy on ground frequency telling them to check the ovens!

[Minesthechevy]

Crewmeal.

Not funny.

Hope the person concerned got to meet an unemployment queue shortly after.

[terrain safe]

Ready doesn't always seem to mean ready to some. Ask the pilot "report ready", back comes the reply "ready". Instructed to line up after the landing and the aircraft lines up at the correct time. Good stuff, plan A seems to be working. Landed aircraft vacates so aircraft cleared for take off. "Oh sorry the cabins not ready yet". The next transmission is to tell the inbound at 3 miles to go around. WHY LINE UP IF NOT READY? When questioned pilots reply that we are ready and we thought the cabin would be ready by the time we were cleared for take off.:ugh::ugh::ugh:

Mind you I keep saying to pilots "taxy forward". As if they could or would taxy backwards in normal operations.:ugh::ugh::ugh:

[Loki]

Terrain Safe happens in En Route too

"Big jet 123 ready for descent"

"Big Jet 123, descend FL 200"

"Ah Big Jet 123, roger....do you want us to descend now?"

[dontdoit]

Or the bunch of knobbers that I hear most days checking in after departure from London Stansted "xxx123 with you HokeyCokey 5A departure passing 3 thousand for x thousand WITH IDENT" .... Please stop it, it's only valid for identification when it's been requested.

[Callsign Kilo]

It's all a bit of a laugh on the flightdeck to extract the urine out of our non standard peers. However the way some of you go on about it is quite entertaining. Aviate, Navigate, Communicate. There's a reason why communicate is last. Hopefully all the non standard guys are better at the first two and laughing at biggles who level busts, incurs runways or has a CFIT every time they land, but thankfully performs the radio to the required ICAO phraseology standards

[terrain safe]

LOKI

Yep been there and heard that too.

We're surrounded I tell you!

[berserker]

And what the h... is fully establisher om the ILS?
Either established or not established....

[ATCO1962]

What annoys me even more than most of these non-standard phrases is the number of pilots who check in on busy frequencies without so much as a nano-second's worth of waiting and listening before transmitting. Recently, I've had a pile of pretty important comms interrupted by people who just can't wait to have a chat with me. Please; wait five seconds after a freq change before transmitting.

[Big Pistons Forever]

Amazing how more flight hours are flown in N America than the rest of world combined, yet we somehow make it work without resorting to the anal radio pedantry that seems to be a requirement to exercise the privileges of a CAA ATPL license; and do it with the lowest accident rate of any jurisdiction. :rolleyes:

[Oubi]

I hate the "fully ready" stuff...
But when a pilot reports ready for push-back and you see bridge still connected, or cargo door opened, and when there's not enough time for sarcasm... I must admit "call me back fully ready" is tempting :(

or
"ABC 123 cleared for t/o"
"Cleared for t/o ABC123"
2 seconds later
"rolling ABC123"

ah damn... that's the way you do it :E

[Doodlebug]

Que?

Always thought that 'Ready upon reaching' was bona fide, a means to let ATC know that on reaching the hold there'd be no delay from our side, hence making it easier for him to plan his landing/departure sequence. Happy to be educated..? :confused:

On an aside: some places in the world anything other than the severely non-standard 'Charlie-charlie' will have the controller mystified :E

[haughtney1]

Thing is PT6A I've never seen the phrase "fully ready" in any ICAO document or
AIP - if it were gazetted as such we'd all be saying it. As HT said earlier you're

And therein lies the rub...the ICAO document isn't controlling, it is guidance and is superseded by a locally published variation.
My personal peeve is the dicks who use 121.5 as their own little chat channel...but normally a German is nearby to sort them out....:E

I think we should add to this...who has heard the best PA on an active frequency? and what lies and useless info did it contain, and did anyone offer congratulations?:E:E:E

[Talkdownman]

and what lies ..... did it contain
Midland 9 in the Bravo cul-de-sac transmits PA on Heathrow Delivery "Our departure is delayed by ATC". Pilot informed "if you cared to request start you will note that there are, in fact, no ATC delays". Uh oh.

[The Many Tentacles]

The best PA I got was from a BA pilot approaching STU who started a good 2 minute waffle about the weather in Heathrow, how long they could expect to hold, a few interesting facts about Wales and then some more waffle.

It was almost interesting, but it took me a long time to sort out the mess that 2 minutes of blocked frequency caused.

I did respond by telling him it was a lovely PA and that I hoped he could do it just as well for the passengers when he tried again in a minute.

[mebur_verce]

Always thought that 'Ready upon reaching' was bona fide, a means to let ATC know that on reaching the hold there'd be no delay from our side, hence making it easier for him to plan his landing/departure sequence. Happy to be educated..? :confused:

In my view, "ready when reaching" does definitely no harm, although it becomes a little useless when it is said 1500m before the holding point :)

I mean: it's good to know you'll be ready when you get to the holding point, but if you're telling me very early, there will still be some uncertainty about the plan. Of course, the closer you are to the holding point when you tell me, the clearer the plan will be.

[samotnik]

I'd like to expect that everybody's "ready upon reaching" without a verbal notice. Inform the ATC in advance only if you're NOT "ready upon reaching".

I wonder whether these crews that are usually not "ready upon reaching" at smaller airports, do so at busier ones, when they are number one in a long queue and still not ready. ;-)

[Slasher]

....the ICAO document isn't controlling, it is guidance and is superseded by a
locally published variation.

That's why I said "or AIP".


"Fully ready" at the HP (which I was referring) is different from a "fully ready"
at the gate. I recall LAX Gate Hold procedures yonks ago included the phrase
"fully ready" in part. I think NRT is the same.

[Bearcat]

You moaners of atc diction should do some time state side.

Yeap I agree some of the read backs are just plain appalling but heck if we all abided by the bible to the ent degree the asylum would be beckoning.

Atc..."flash 123, traffic 12 O'C , crossing left to right , 1000 ft below.

Flash 123...... Ehhhhh talllyhoo!

This really grits my sh!t

[On the beach]

"Fully ready" means what that "Ready" doesn't?
"Ready on reaching" means that you are not ready now. Waste of R/T time.

Are all JFO "prat speak". It alerts us to a "prat" doing the R/T today.

The one good thing that these useless phrases indicates to me is that at least the plane is being flown by someone competent in the left hand seat who is just about to administer a "cuff round the ear" to the prat in the right hand seat.

Before pressing the mic button tomorrow, think before opening mouth. "Do I really want to be today's prize prat?" :E

[Doodlebug]

Heavy traffic. You've just deiced. It's snowing and the clock is ticking, there is a lot of inbound/outbound traffic, the airport is closing soon and there is an unexpected runway-change. Whereas you had a long taxi ahead of you before, you now find yourself 200 metres from the new hold with a string of landing-lights on final, albeit with enough time/space ahead of them for you to make it out if you are quick enough to get your ducks re-arranged into the new row. 'Ready upon reaching' says I, in the hope of informing the controller that we CAN make it, should he be able to work us in.

Unacceptable?

[On the beach]

'Ready upon reaching' says I, in the hope of informing the controller that we CAN make it, should he be able to work us in.

Unacceptable?

Why not just say "Ready?". Simples.

[Doodlebug]

Because I'm not. But I will be when I get there. If I say I'm 'ready' he might turn me into the intersection I'm just trundling past.

[ZOOKER]

Even better, tell ATC what you are ready for. Descent, start, pushback, taxy, base leg, etc.

[Doodlebug]

Context, Mr Zooker. I believe my scenario does have some merit.

However I do stand to be corrected, especially by a retired ATCO. My question was genuine.

[ZOOKER]

Doodlebug,
No disrespect intended whatsoever. Just scrolled up to your post about snow and a ticking clock. Surely in this situation an airfield would remain open? An aerodrome is a 'business' after all.

A little fun story from the annals of ATC. Many years ago, one of our 'colourful characters' received a telephone complaint from a pilot about the service provided to his airliner.
In the days when ATCOs, (as opposed to 'managers'), were allowed to converse directly with 'customers', our 'colourful character', (who, sadly is no longer with us), was allegedly heard to reply...."Sir, at this airport, we have 4 runways, we also have VDF, 2 NDBs, Radar, ILS and PAR. The only thing we don't have is a f*cking crystal ball".

[LoserGill]

Pilots enjoying their work; I bet it gets boring and monotonous in the cockpit hour after hour, day after day, week af... well you get it.

It never bothered me frankly, levity is good.

[cossack]

I'd like to expect that everybody's "ready upon reaching" without a verbal notice. Inform the ATC in advance only if you're NOT "ready upon reaching".
And in enough time for ATC to come up with a plan B.

I wonder whether these crews that are usually not "ready upon reaching" at smaller airports, do so at busier ones, when they are number one in a long queue and still not ready. ;-)
You bet they do and tell you just after passing the last intersection before the runway end.:ugh:

BA are the worst culprits around here: "not quite fully ready, just waiting for final figures, is there anyone behind us?" Only 7 or 8 others that have been on the same frequency for the last 10 minutes crawling along behind you.

I will now routinely separate likely culprits from the main line and fit them back in when I know they are ready. You can go as slow as you like then.;)

[LeftBlank]

Having flown in the US I always felt the big difference was you can get away with less pedantic RT than Europe because most, not all, but most of the guys on frequency are American citizens who on the ground talk more or less the same language.
Flying into busier UK and other European hubs that is not the case.

Personal teeth gritter, why do some prats read back "land XYZ123" missing out the word "clear"? When did this come in? :rolleyes:

[chiglet]

...."Sir, at this airport, we have 4 runways, we also have VDF, 2 NDBs, Radar, ILS and PAR. The only thing we don't have is a f*cking crystal ball".

I think that was Mr C to a BCAL skipper :D

[reportyourlevel]

Personal teeth gritter, why do some prats read back "land XYZ123" missing out the word "clear"? When did this come in?

...and indeed the "ed to" between the "clear" and "land".

[His dudeness]

but normally a German is nearby to sort them out....

Thats in our genes....looking at this very thread I think we are more closely related people than you would possibly like to be told...or is it just the ATCOs ?

[Ceannairceach]

Only this week...

"Scottish, ABC123 bustin' out of 2.5 for 5.0 on a WAL1Y"

Fact.

[ZOOKER]

W2 LAG phraseology? Glad to see McIntegration is progressing smoothly. :E

[FC80]

Here's one for you that seems to be more controllers than pilots -

'Roger, that's copied.'

:suspect:

[PhiltheReaper]

I may be out of my depth here, but I must sat I disagree with the vast majority on this issue of "fully ready" and indeed slightly on the issue of being ready on reaching. I'm not disputing the instructions for proper RT, merely the argument about the use of English.

ZOOKER, rightly said in my opinion that context is key to a ready message. Is the "ready on reaching" not that context? As a paraphrase of "ready to depart, on reaching HP" ? Perhaps I am wrong.

Most importantly though, readiness is not a bi-polar state I believe. It is possible to be in a partial state of readiness. This could be why the military use a scale for readiness for example. Allow me to submit an example.

(As with many terrible stories, I have chosen to set the scene with a camping expedition - A gory end to many a fictional hero!)

You are out camping, and your friend says "we have to go in 5 minutes". You know it will take you 10 minutes to pack your things away.

However, after 8 minutes, a group of axe murderers runs towards you in a murderous rage. I believe, that whilst you are 2 minutes from being "fully ready" you will find yourselves very much ready enough to take some departing action, without any delay at all!

An unlikely story, to be sure. But the point stands I hope.

Phil

[ZOOKER]

Phil,
many thanks for all the kind comments. Keep reaping, I'm sure it will pay off in the end.
It's a 'Hard Road', as Mr. Mayall said.
Worth it in the end, even if you finish up on EGLLZT.

[Minesthechevy]

Totally off-topic, for which I apologise to the sensitive

Zooker - I went to see John Mayall play in Lyon a few months ago - still just as good as he always was...... well worth catching him on tour.

[Nautilus Blue]

QFA10 Syndrome (also affects Speedbird).

"Qantas Ten, climb to flight level 390"

"Qantas One Zero, flight level 390"

Ok, I can take a hint,

"Qantas One Zero, contact centre on 123.45"

"Qantas Ten roger, 123.45"

:ugh:

Still, if thats the worst that happens on a shift its been a good day.