easyJet Portugal. Worst contract in Europe

[zumzum]

Hi guys,
I was wondering if easyJet Portugal has the worst T&Cs in Europe despite what people think (a good employer...)
Monthly net pay for a 7 years in the Company Captain: 4400€ after the new tax increase from portuguese Government from Jan 2013.
Figures with an 80 hrs average.
Random roster which translates effectively on a 5 on 2 off days roster pattern;
Crew treated in the worst way I've ever seen (worst than my previous employer Ryanair)
This is part of a broader plan to cut crew cost/wages by 30% across the network.
If you are considering it: STAY AWAY.

[Basil]

Would I be correct in guessing that's equivalent to about £65k gross?
IIRC top rate captain (SC1) basic in BA in 1997 was about £100k.
About 10 years ago B747 captain overseas about £70k or so.

Too many candidates.

[captplaystation]

I heard from slightly more recent Capts in Ryanair in BCN that the average take home (for 10.5 months of the year ? ) was only around 5200€/5300€, but at least they have a 5/4 roster.

I guess there are not too many other opportunities in Portugal (have an ex colleague who flies for Sata on the Bus & he ain't earning too much nowadays either) and Easy are capitalising on it.

Sh1tty business we are in, no doubt, but I doubt many other professions are faring any better in this corporategreedfest
(sorry, economic crisis :rolleyes:) we are in .

[REMAX11]

Is it really that bad?

Can u transfer to another base?

[S76Heavy]

How does it compare against the cost of living in Portugal?
And can you expect a company to make up a governments tax increase?
I know other people who have been hit hard by the tax increases as well and saw their living wages cut by a significant amount. Those included government jobs as well.

People can and will vote with their feet; however I think there are not too many places to go to in the current economy.

[JW411]

So you have left Ryanair to join easyJet Portugal just to find out that you are worse off than you ever were?

Do you think that there might just possibly be something wrong with your decision-making ability?

[sooty3694]

If crews vote with their feet, the salary will increase!

Is your take home salary worse than many other professionals? If it is, join another profession and work 9-5 doing a job you probably HATE.

It's your choice dude, not ours. Take it or move on.....there will be plenty to fill the void, and there are thousands in the pipeline....many prepared to pay to join the queue.

It's life Jim, but not as we knew it!

[flyzede]

Hi,

I'm a pilot for a portuguese airline and I can give you some tips about the cost of living in Lisboa.

To start with it, it's better to introduce you all to one of the most violent V.A.T. in Europe: 23%! Almost everything you buy (clothes, electronics, furniture, even the restaurant bill!!!) is subject to this crazy tax! :sad:

You'll hardly get a decent 2 bedroom house for less than 950€/month. :=

Although the Airport is in the city, the underground network is completely annoying! Only if you live in Parque das Nações (former Expo 98) it can be valuable for you. Otherwise you'll have a big underground journey ahead everytime you go to work! :ugh:

If you intend to buy a car, do it! BUT FAR AWAY FROM HERE! If you are an EU citizen, bring your own car, otherwise you'll pay for a car as you never did before. :eek:

So, I don't think Lisbon is that cheap!

Dine Out in a good (I'm not talking about top restaurants) restaurant for 2: 80/90€. (Complete meal, without Wine)

McDonnald's average Menu: 5,50€

Underground ticket: 1,40€ (valid for 1 hour) 6€ (valid for 24 hours)

Gas: 1,65€/l Diesel: 1,45€/l always changing! (for worse)

Private School: 500€-1000€/month

Electricity: 70€-80€/month

Hope it helps!

Good luck! ;)

[zumzum]

Well I joined ezy 6 years ago from another company hoping things were better...
They have been but things changed rapidly since the company started to look at different ways to cut crew costs...
Lisbon its ok...but not cheaper than any other city in Europe...Taxation is extremely high and the Company is not interested on offsetting this increases...

I just wanted to warn everyone of you who might be interested to join easyjet because the company during the interview offer different numbers to the candidates regarding taxation and flight pay...

Good luck...

PM me if you want more detailed infos!

[Speevy]

So you joined easy 6 years ago and you are a captain in lisbon.

This means you accepted lis as a base.
Why?

Everybody within the company knew it was a bad contract, Why did you accepted it?

Maybe you thought it was smart to jump the que and accepted a place in lis in the lhs that everybody else was turning down?
You should have waited for lgw....

[Cmon-PullUP]

The LIS contract is not a secret, and it doesn't take a long time to put numbers and conditions together, before it is clear that it is a far better deal to stay in the RHS for another year or two and then take a turn in LGW like most guys have to.

For those considering to join as DEC in LIS i do agree with the first poster..... STAY AWAY, it will NEVER be a good deal and you CAN NOT transfer to another contract once you are in.

It's a scam, and the only way to stop a contract like this is if no-one signs it..... As if :(

[kick the tires]

I believe some people see it as a way to get a permanent Captains contract by first doing their time in LIS.

My understanding is that the contracts only run until Feb 2014 at which point the individual can return to their country, not base, of origin.

[brizzol]

It's no secret. The contract is absolutely rubbish. I think easyjet are just dipping their toe into the depths of ****ty contracts to see if they can get away with it.... They have crewed the base, albeit with a few DECs and deep command holding pool swimmers(who have taken the opportunity to get a quicker command). The bottom line is the base is crewed so I guess we can see this sort of sub standard contract being rolled out in other new bases too... Coupled with the new scale B British Fo/Sfo contracts(which guys ARE signing), it is safe to say, our Terms and Conditions are coming under attack....

[ROBMEDIUM]

In my eyes ( reading your previous posts ) you either

Read and accepted this substandard contract. ( why ? )
Jump the upgrade queue by accepting this substandard contract therefore being directly responsible for lower terms and coditions within easyJet.
Now which one is it?

[FirstOfficer]

Brizzol makes an important point.

Another aircraft is being added to LIS base, I am sure there will be people queuing to sign the contract...

[captplaystation]

Did some of you "Orangemen" learn nothing from the past 10 years of Ryanair history ? :rolleyes:


Divide & Conquer

Divide & Conquer

Divide & Conquer


Repeat enough times until it penetrates your self-serving skulls ! ! :ugh:

[Ennie]

Don't like it, don't join, very simple.

Stop moaning about it, it's boring!

[flyhardmo]

All you people who paid for type ratings, accepted a base/position on lower terms to jump the queue and basically sold your soul thinking you would get ahead, this is the result. Now you come on here and whine.

Hang your head in shame because you have screwed up this industry. Unfortunately there are way too many idiots lining up to do the same. :ugh:

You reap what you sow :D

[RAT 5]

Sadly, so do many innocent victims = colleagues in other companies.

[jackitin]

My understanding is that the contracts only run until Feb 2014 at which point the individual can return to their country, not base, of origin.

Sadly this is not true, it was rumoured but there is no such clause in any of the contracts. This is a one way ticket.

[puma230]

My understanding is you can swap bases only, ie someone has to want to trade places with your slot in Lisbon! If that doesn't show how dreadful the contract is nothing will! WB must go home laughing his t*ts off!

[zumzum]

to those that say people here jumped the que:
partially its true. But some of us are here for personal circumstances and because of previous base closures.
Some others accepted it because they said: "better and internal cpt that has a guarantee to continue within the easyjet group than a DEC with a 2 years contract scared as s**t to lose his job"... because he doesn't know if he will be renewed or not...Who do you think will fight for better T&Cs??
We all (easyjet cpts) have a promise to transfer to another base in 2014. If the COmpany change its mind then we have a problem...
Unfortunately I made a mistake and thats why I'm here sharing my opinion and telling you not to come. This is hell.
I wanted to fight these T&C myself, from the inside. Because I'm not scared, but now I think its a lost battle. Too much has to change, including Government taxation which is ridiculous: a FO pays 45% taxes here...Insane.
So just STAY AWAY...This is bad even for your mental health..!!

[zumzum]

The company is struggling to crew the base anyway.
People now know how bad this is...thats why they changed the rules: now you can't transfer unless they find someone that can replace you...this means virtually never..!

[SKYCLEAR13]

If we STOP WORKING tomorrow AND if we do that all together, these gangsters will negotiate...

But WE are so stupid.....

[Iver]

For you easyJet pilots who have been there awhile and have the requisite hours and experience there is a potential solution: EK is starting to hire directly onto the A380.

The EK package seems quite competitive and you can get away from those killer LCC rosters. QR and the other large UAE airline are hiring too. Vote with your feet and go see the world.... At least an option to consider. Doubt the conditions in Europe will get better over time.

[FRying]

What are you EZ boys and girls waiting to ground EZ airplanes once and for all for 3 days, a week, 3 weeks ??? Working in office jobs IN ADDITION TO your current crazy rosters ? Have your homes taken away because of a sudden requirement to achieve some obscure yield ? Having to pay part of your passengers tickets from your own pockets ? Your daughters in the red light quarter to finance your meager salaries ?????

What is the use of BALPA ? What sorts of excuses will this "union" come up with in order not to act ?

How can someone who cannot take control of his fate make the decision to go around when all goes pear shape ? How can you give the control of fast jets, within which strong decision making hence strong personality is key to safety, to people who cannot even decide to act for their own long term good ??

I know there's a great chance that my post will be erased but what the hell... This situation is turning into a farce. Year after year. "What kind of extra excuse can I find not to strike ? Hey, I'm still making more than the employee at Mc Donald's down the street. I still have more of a life than that poor bugger.".

Turkeys. And weak ones.

[zumzum]

FRying,
You are so right and I agree 100%.
UNfortunately we are dealing with a UK airline where a UK colture in all over the places here...How many times I've heard colleagues saying: well I can join the Union as far as we don't strike :ugh:

Unfortunately this is what Mrs. Thatcher brought. A colture of fear and submission towards the employer...

I think this time will be different though...cos people is really fed up down here and I think people has finally realized that there is not much to lose...

But yes, I'm ashamed of my colleagues most of the times...scared of their own shade...unable to make decisions even if they like to be called "Commanders"...

[peacekeeper]

zumzum,

I think you've made your own 'command' decision which has led you to where you are. I'm guessing your in Lisbon due to a base closure but that you could have gone to another base as an FO. Since Madrid closed recently you had since last April to figure out what the Lisbon Captains contract was like and you still decided to go. Is it really your colleagues you should be ashamed of?

[zumzum]

Peacekeeper,
I wouldn't be so stupid to put my career path within easyjet. We have few ex mad pilots here anyway.
Secondly I'm not ashamed of anything...and I doubt this is the place to discuss or blame each other for what has happened.
I'm not blaming you for having in the Uk alone 60/70% of the FOs flexicrew, even if I probably should because this is the way it goes in easyJet. Everyone complaining but nobody does s**t.
I started this thread because I wanted to make people aware of how bad this contract is. Many things were hidden from us when we signed (read sick pay etc.) and others unexpected (tax increase by 11% this year alone) and I just wanted to give an heads up. Inform people that is probably considering EZY Portugal. Full stop.
Then if you want to start a new conversation about who's responsable for what let me know...I have a couple of things to say regarding your lovely BALPA, which allowed this contract in a first place btw (or you want to hide behind the story that had no jurisdiction because was a different Country and bla bla bla...) ...Because you are a BALPA member isn't it??? Or you are one of those guys that say: "I can't afford the membership.."or "I don't believe in unions..."?

[puma230]

Zumzum, when will you chaps get union recognition and start the fight?

[Dream Driver]

Iver, leaving EZY for EK, are you crazy!!! The Middle East is the worst place to live on earth :yuk:

[FRying]

Guys, guys, guys... Do yourself a favor, make your future better. That will be at a cost today (not getting paid for several days. Who cares...). But the return on investment will be absolutely HUGE !

Ground these f-in airplanes for several days. Then get back to negociation demanding a good pay scheme and a good ON/OFF patern as well a stop to this CTC non-sense. EZ management still play the bully ? Go for another round of 3, 4 or 10 days on the ground.

EZ shares will drop like leaves in fall. I swear they'll beg for a truce. End of story.

[stiglet]

Looks to me like FRying is the opposition and would love to see easy pilots strike.

[Craggenmore]

Dream Driver,

Because you live in Qatar and are grounded?

[kick the tires]

Looks to me like FRying is the opposition and would love to see easy pilots strike.

...... and is not even subtle about it!

[FRying]

Nope. Not subtle about it. I'm aware of that. This situation is not subtle either. I'd even say it's very vulgar in essence.

Easyjet has reached a critical mass. T&Cs at EZ have an impact on the industry as a whole. When you guys don't take your responsibilities and mess up your own T&Cs, that does not have an impact on you alone. Why should I be "subtle" ? This situation has gone way beyond acceptable and has turned raw. There's no room for philosophy anymore. Philosophers get eaten alive.

I read comments calling for evading to the Middle east. What are you ? Wimps ? "Oh, I'm so scared I have to leave to the moon. Maybe they'll be nice to me up there. I'm only a poor little gentle puppy. Don't hit me and I'll be your friend."....Pathetic !

When are you going to act as grown ups, for christ sake ? Management is playing cat and mouse with you, using the wide range of your weaknesses. And you're diving into it.

This supply and demand issue is BS. If they're told "no pilot will get paid anything less than 60 grand upon landing at EZ or your planes stay on the ground", you'll see you could have 500 cadets waiting at the gate and EZ pilots receiving good salaries and a more livable life. This supply and demand issue is only good for those who don't want to face the abrupt reality and the fact they will have to go to war at some point, whether they like it or not.

Joe Public is not an issue either. He'll never agree on a strike anyway and will always think you get paid too much. Who cares ??? He'll have to buy his cheap ticket some other day or fly another airline. That's part of the pressuring tool too.

Last but not least, the impact of an increase of your salaries upon the ticket fares is minimal. Some try to scare you away making believe low fare tickets rely on you being reduced to slavery. That is so false. Make your own calculation on a first officer being paid 4000 pounds instead of 2000. Divide this 2000 difference by the total number of passengers flown in a month. That's only 0,22 pounds extra on each ticket if you fly 8400 pax in a month !!!! Do you realise how far from ruining your airline you are by demanding decent salaries ??? It has nothing to do with "we have to pay you peanuts or we'll have to charge twice as much".

What is certain, though, is that 1800 pilots giving up 2000 pounds a month translates into a 43,200,000 pounds gain for the airline in a year. Solution ? Increase average fares by a rough 0.50 pounds and the airline will still make the same sorts of profits with no decrease in pax numbers as the change is painless. No change in business model and no need to make people live in hell. Everybody's a winner.

So, act.

The only thing is it takes a bit of guts and planning.

[Aporrizaje]

Well said FrYing!.
We are being duped into believing that ****ty pay and conditions is the only way an airline can survive.It is not true,greedy b€&@ds just want more mo'!.
Vueling will be hiring pilots for 700€ base,they want guys with less than 600hr total who will comply no matter what...experience is worth nothing to the MBA wunderkids.

[FRying]

Right. And very honestly, if I were one of these managers I would do the exact same thing. Shafting all I can since there is no response. Who cares as long as my bonus gets as high as the Empire state building ?!! And I would be laughing with my fellow managers at those dumb pilots taking all the cr@p-and-I-never-thought-that-was-even-possible-that-is-going-way-beyond-my-hottest-fantasies-those-pilots-are-so-stupid !!!

[busav8r]

Nope. Not subtle about it. I'm aware of that. This situation is not subtle either. I'd even say it's very vulgar in essence.

Easyjet has reached a critical mass. T&Cs at EZ have an impact on the industry as a whole. When you guys don't take your responsibilities and mess up your own T&Cs, that does not have an impact on you alone. Why should I be "subtle" ? This situation has gone way beyond acceptable and has turned raw. There's no room for philosophy anymore. Philosophers get eaten alive.

I read comments calling for evading to the Middle east. What are you ? Wimps ? "Oh, I'm so scared I have to leave to the moon. Maybe they'll be nice to me up there. I'm only a poor little gentle puppy. Don't hit me and I'll be your friend."....Pathetic !

When are you going to act as grown ups, for christ sake ? Management is playing cat and mouse with you, using the wide range of your weaknesses. And you're diving into it.

This supply and demand issue is BS. If they're told "no pilot will get paid anything less than 60 grand upon landing at EZ or your planes stay on the ground", you'll see you could have 500 cadets waiting at the gate and EZ pilots receiving good salaries and a more livable life. This supply and demand issue is only good for those who don't want to face the abrupt reality and the fact they will have to go to war at some point, whether they like it or not.

Joe Public is not an issue either. He'll never agree on a strike anyway and will always think you get paid too much. Who cares ??? He'll have to buy his cheap ticket some other day or fly another airline. That's part of the pressuring tool too.

Last but not least, the impact of an increase of your salaries upon the ticket fares is minimal. Some try to scare you away making believe low fare tickets rely on you being reduced to slavery. That is so false. Make your own calculation on a first officer being paid 4000 pounds instead of 2000. Divide this 2000 difference by the total number of passengers flown in a month. That's only 0,22 pounds extra on each ticket if you fly 8400 pax in a month !!!! Do you realise how far from ruining your airline you are by demanding decent salaries ??? It has nothing to do with "we have to pay you peanuts or we'll have to charge twice as much".

What is certain, though, is that 1800 pilots giving up 2000 pounds a month translates into a 43,200,000 pounds gain for the airline in a year. Solution ? Increase average fares by a rough 0.50 pounds and the airline will still make the same sorts of profits with no decrease in pax numbers as the change is painless. No change in business model and no need to make people live in hell. Everybody's a winner.

So, act.

The only thing is it takes a bit of guts and planning.

:D Very well said Frying.

[busav8r]

...betray complete ignorance of the laws governing industrial action in the UK. Such action would be illegal as so called secondary action, and would leave all those taking part in it, and any union that organised it, open to wide ranging legal remedies. i.e. Action for breach of contract. Any pilots taking part in secondary action could face dismissal.

I am not for one minute suggesting that Flexiscrew is a good thing. It is a disaster for the long term future of the piloting "profession". However, unfortunate though it is, there is very little that can be done to stop the rot.

john_smith, even tough I understand your arguments, I think there is one small detail you've just forgotten: if, without exception, all EZ planes would be left on the ground what is going to happen to the flight crews? Legal actions against to all of them? Dismissal to everybody?! The end of EZ? I don't think so.

What is happening to EZ now is a complete disaster to everybody, and a complete disrespect to our profession. But I am afraid the problem is not only with EZ... we just need to look around (most particularly in the EU and US) to see the disaster...

[wiggy]

if, without exception, all EZ planes would be left on the ground what was going to happen to the flight crews? Legal actions against to all of them? Dismissal to everybody?! The end of EZ? I don't think so.

Possibly not, but given UK law it probably would be the end, financially, for anyone who the company could prove helped organise such a stoppage.

[HundredPercentPlease]

busav8r,

No, they would just go after a handful of captains. Maybe sack 49 (in irony) and then, as is legally allowed in the UK, go after all their assets for compensation.

Possibly then go after the union for compensation too.

I don't fancy losing my house over this. So, legal industrial action only. And in the UK you cannot legally take any form of IA concerning matters that are not directly affecting UK members.

If there's anything really wrong here, it's the UK law.

[EZY25]

FRying ... nail, head! The choice is ours. Lisbon is at the very front of the battle. Lose it and it will be nail, coffin. Time to stop finding excuses and park the aircraft. Short pain, long term gain. Simple.

[FRying]

John Smith, I'm not saying things would be straightforward. That's why I wrote it would take some planning. This needs to be well thought out and taken care of in advance with lawyers. Some sort of case needs to be built up over time in order make action fit nicely into a solid legal canvas.

But, hey ! This is not Oliver Twist times ! There is no need to act fatalist. There is no other options anyway or you'll be working for god knows what sorts of miserable salaries by 2016-2017 and will try to live some poor miserable life and health until...you die. Even if you're hiding behind one specific Captain contract for now, striving not to look at what's going on in the F/Os world, don't be fooled : you'll come under attack at some point.

[wiggy]

I SAY:

- NO discretion on FTL
- NO OTP - I TAKE THE TIME NEEDED
- NO FLAPS 3
- NO ONE ENGINE TAXI OUT IN
- TAKE EXTRA FUEL
- NO DIRECTS

Just a FWIW.

There's nothing to stop you doing any of the above, as long as you are very careful to ensure that:

1. You make it clear that these decisions were not made for "industrial" reasons or made because you were p**'d off with the company.


2. You can show that your decisions were also made on a purely personal basis and were not part of a coordinated campaign. That means being very careful about the use of any form of written communications, including text messages, e-mails, even messages on forums such as this. In the event of a dispute these days the UK courts are very likely to grant management and/or their lawyers access to all your records (cf. BALPA and Openskies, and BASSA and their relatively recent spat).

Good Luck........you'll need it if you're thinking of taking action in the UK.

[zumzum]

LIS pilots just announced their first strike.
Apparently response rate was overwhelming.
All voted in favor with only one or two against.
The Union said they are ready to fight until the situation goes back to acceptable T&C in line with industry and easyjet standards.
Pilots are tired of games and false excuses from management and can't wait no longer.

[Too big to fly]

I just want to add my2 cents...
I was supposed to start with easyJet in March but I turned it down last minute.
The feedback from the pilot community in LIS has been very negative (at least to the people I've been talking to). All the infos in this thread are real. There is no written guarantee to be renewed after feb '14 plusyou can only move to another base if they "can find a replacement", which means never...nobody wants to fly for these guys in Portugal and apparently the company is struggling big time to crew the base...
I'll stay where I am waiting for EK :}

[H69]

strike confirmed apparently. more days in april as well!
rumours of direct entry pilots cancelling last minute..

worst paid contract in Europe indeed..

[Thad Jarvis]

Welcome to Warwick's Easyjet. The only thing missing is the harp on the tail.

[zumzum]

Well even if no one will ever admit that Warwick has been kicked out fom RYR.
Rumors are that in easyJet too his reputation amongst Management is not that good anymore
So I would not be surprised to see him out in not too long.
The only thing is achieving is upsetting the workforce by constantly throwing sand in their face... I assume more and more unrest will end up with his head...
Let's see

[Thad Jarvis]

To be honest he only says what many of them them are thinking but he has delivered no rocket science and the company is facing what is likely to be the most industrial turmoil in its history across a lot of the network. It's been coming for a while.

[ERJ145 Driver]

Hi, can anyone tell me the requirements for the LH seat in Lisbon base? How long does it take to upgrade if already joining with sufficient qualifications?

[Warrior2]

Hi All,

Given that this thread was a few years old, Has anything changed in LIS, Roster, Pay? Taxes? Time for upgrade?

Would appreciate any information,

Thanks, W2

[ezy320]

All remains the same really. Strike was smashed by other bases. BCN contract is very similar to the Portuguese ones. TAX the same. All the info has been discussed here in detail mate. :yuk::yuk: