Toxic Cabin Air/Aerotoxic Syndrome

[Flipster130]

https://www.pprune.org/medical-health/657435-progressive-supranuclear-palsy.html

The Environmental Health article above is scary reading for crew (and their families) who have been loyal servants of aviation their whole working lives.
It is quite clear (to me at least) that biological and neurological science is pointing the finger at the oil (and its pyrolised constituents, including Carbon Monoxide) that is found in the bleed air of most modern ac.
But for more insight on the many diseases that are more prevalent in aircrew than the general population - ones that we may have to deal with before we die, see here:

https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/ajim.22608 (https://journals.lww.com/joem/abstract/1998/11000/mortality_among_us_commercial_pilots_and.8.aspx)

https://journals.lww.com/joem/abstract/1998/11000/mortality_among_us_commercial_pilots_and.8.aspx

The only positives I can detect:
a.There are significant genetic differences in how individuals' bodies reacts to these poisons - meaning some may be better 'protected' than others - roll the dice everyone!
b. It is some consolation that airline/manufacturers' executives and our supposed regulators (who probably knew of the risks they were asking us to take but turned a blind eye to them) will also have spent a lot of time travelling in the cabins of their own 'bastard children' and may have been subjected to many low doses of the poisons - what goes around, comes around!
c. Thanks to the sustained pressure from a number of aerotoxic pressure groups around the world, a number of major airlines are slowly doing more of the following - changing to engine oils with less 'nasties' lurking in their recipes, changing bearing seals more regularly and not over-filling oil reservoirs, fitting filters and detectors to the air system and improving crew SOPs and improving post fume-event actions......too little to late for many. Also, of course, no-one wants to admit this - ostensibly 'to protect the industry' from legal action/bills - but perhaps they hope that many of us will die before we wake up to the many liberties they have been taking with our health.

[snooky]

A very sad story, and some interesting links. https://www.change.org/p/stop-contaminated-cabin-air-in-aircraft/u/32437976?cs_tk=AtIbnazBu8p-EEqRAGYAAXicyyvNyQEABF8BvCryH1FN0MHf7SUBY9NA0xM%3D&utm_campaign=749e65d02d7e4e92b566f8ca312d3a88&utm_content=initial_v0_7_1&utm_medium=email&utm_source=petition_update&utm_term=cs

[Flipster130]

Cripes - why have we not heard of this poor guy before?
Absolutely disgraceful behaviour by medical authorities and others - i cant find the right words to describe how disgusted I feel about his mistreatment!
Sign up....

[Manual Pitch Trim]

As per Capt. O’Riordan’s statement, on June 5, 2023, he was exposed to toxic air (https://www.unfiltered.vip/)while serving as the captain on an Aer Lingus flight. He believes that the exposure to toxic fumes, known to cause nervous system and brain injury and known throughout the industry as 'Aerotoxic Syndrome' (https://www.unfiltered.vip/fume-events-aerotoxic-syndrome.html), is a significant threat during flights, and can happen anytime. Please read his own words:
”My life was irrevocably altered by exposure to toxic fumes on an Aer Lingus flight. This personal tragedy has opened my eyes to a larger, urgent public health issue that needs immediate attention. I am not alone in this suffering; there are others who have been similarly exposed and whose lives have been devastated as a result.”


Article in support for Capt. Tom, please like & share https://open.substack.com/pub/bee572/p/mayday-pilot-in-distress?r=ng4vm&utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=web

[Flipster130]

Aer linus fume event 10 Mar 24 (https://airlive.net/emergency/2024/03/11/aer-lingus-crew-receiving-treatment-in-hospital-after-toxic-fume-forced-flight-ei166-to-return-to-dublin/)

[TwoDeadDogs]

Hi all, havent been on here in a long time but here's my 2d worth; the APU in Airbuses drains it's oil into an external tank (it has no sump) as part of the shut-down sequence so when you press the Master switch to OFF, you are supposed to wait two minutes and then shut off the batteries, which allowed the APU to start cooling down and get the oil out to the tank, yet leaving a small amount inside the engine to lube it for the next start-up. This shut down sequence also includes venting the case of the engine itself, equivalent to a crankcase breather in a car engine. The start-up sequence, including opening the inlet flap, gets the oil back from the tank to the engine, so that the oil system is pressurised with oil by the time combustion starts. When the internal seals in the engine start to wear out, oil gets misted into the duct from APU to cabin and we, as engs, would get complaints from CCM and pilots. When we would investigate the duct, we sometimes found oil residue immediately inside the duct, at the joint nearest the APU, but not much further in than that.

I have looked into those ducts many times and there would be no evidence of liquid contamination beyond a few inches into the duct. That's not to say that airborne mist did not go further along the duct but that's what I saw. The APUs were generally very reliable and it was often accessories like the oil cooler or the starter motor that gave trouble. The cooler is probably more often a source of oil getting sucked in than the core engine itself. The APU bay in an Airbus is generally very clean as the APU did not shed oil like the APU of a 146. Their APU bay was always filthy. Why? because the APU had to be vented by the eng by pushing a vent button on top of the engine, otherwise when he opened the tiny oil filler cap, the pressurised case would blow a cup full of oil upwards, giving him a coat of oil and a generous coat all over the APU bay. So, SOP was to vent the APU, wait for a few minutes and then check the oil level, which had to be very accurately filled, as any excess would be vented out by the engine when it started. That was on every turnaround with a 146. There were constant complaints about fumes in the 146 and we spent an inordinate amount of time cleaning the APU bay and cleaning the engine itself. The bay was always dirty. Changing over to the A320 was a pleasure as the aircraft told you when it needed APU oil and the bay was always clean, compared to a 146.

[Dogma]

The quality air supply to any sealed vessel is vitally important.

However having flown for decades and scrutinised the situation, aside from isolated contamination events, there is no evidence at all about the general quality of bleed air.


Pilots are all to a certain extent living well beyond the average

So all in all, no particular problem

[B2N2]

The quality air supply to any sealed vessel is vitally important.

However having flown for decades and scrutinised the situation, aside from isolated contamination events, there is no evidence at all about the general quality of bleed air.


Pilots are all to a certain extent living well beyond the average

So all in all, no particular problem

Its stunning how and why you choose to ignore all the evidence provided to you in this thread.
Simply because you don’t suffer the consequences it doesn’t exist to you?

https://ehjournal.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s12940-023-00987-8

[Dogma]

Its stunning how and why you choose to ignore all the evidence provided to you in this thread.
Simply because you don’t suffer the consequences it doesn’t exist to you?

https://ehjournal.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s12940-023-00987-8

There are many causes of debilitating illness and aviation is not kind to the body

I’ve actually even attended the GCAQE conference and witnessed many competing agendas trying to hijack and conflate Contamination Events vs Bleed air

In truth, as with mercury, asbestos and cigarettes, etc. you only need a small cohort study to determine a detrimental impact on health. That “smoking gun” is completely absent in the AeroToxic science

[snooky]

I do find it sad that a few tend to ignore the mountain of evidence to suggest that toxic chemicals reach the cabin from the very hot engine oil. Before we realised what it was I experienced the “sweaty socks” smell when closing the thrust levers on several 757s that I daily flew. Blood tests have confirmed raised levels of several of the oil ingredients and dna testing that I am not good at clearing toxins. This has resulted in very limited mobility, gastric problems and a heart attack, all acknowledged outcomes of inhaling the toxins. Incidentally several other crew flying those aircraft have experienced similar. There is now overwhelming evidence that aerotoxic syndrome is real, too late for some!

[Dogma]

I do find it sad that a few tend to ignore the mountain of evidence to suggest that toxic chemicals reach the cabin from the very hot engine oil. Before we realised what it was I experienced the “sweaty socks” smell when closing the thrust levers on several 757s that I daily flew. Blood tests have confirmed raised levels of several of the oil ingredients and dna testing that I am not good at clearing toxins. This has resulted in very limited mobility, gastric problems and a heart attack, all acknowledged outcomes of inhaling the toxins. Incidentally several other crew flying those aircraft have experienced similar. There is now overwhelming evidence that aerotoxic syndrome is real, too late for some!

Sorry to hear it Snooky - hope you are keeping well. I think a genetic predisposition to such sensitivity is a possibility. That genetic analysis should be possible. I too few the 757 RR RB211 for 6 years, to no ill effect. However, that was with a quality airline with high maintenance standards

As I say the wider issue is that the cohort study on an international basis do not support the low dose exposure theory.

[snooky]

Sorry to hear it Snooky - hope you are keeping well. I think a genetic predisposition to such sensitivity is a possibility. That genetic analysis should be possible. I too few the 757 RR RB211 for 6 years, to no ill effect. However, that was with a quality airline with high maintenance standards

As I say the wider issue is that the cohort study on an international basis do not support the low dose exposure theory.

Thank you, sadly it is unlikely that I will ever regain mobility. The 757s I flew were very well maintained by a large operator but several undoubtedly had oil vapour leaking via bleed air. Later models had less problems initially but did deteriorate with age. I operated large numbers of short sectors and this meant more regular short exposure as the leaks generally occurred at top of descent. When the aircraft were sold on at least one operator fitted filters for the flight deck.
Of course there are hundreds of available studies suggesting toxic poisoning is possible, this website links to just a few. https://toxiccabinair.com
I feel that whilst nothing can be done for me or my late colleagues acceptance of the problem could save others suffering a similar fate in the future.

[Dogma]

The Environmental Health article above is scary reading for crew (and their families) who have been loyal servants of aviation their whole working lives.
It is quite clear (to me at least) that biological and neurological science is pointing the finger at the oil (and its pyrolised constituents, including Carbon Monoxide) that is found in the bleed air of most modern ac.
But for more insight on the many diseases that are more prevalent in aircrew than the general population - ones that we may have to deal with before we die, see here:

https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/ajim.22608 (https://journals.lww.com/joem/abstract/1998/11000/mortality_among_us_commercial_pilots_and.8.aspx)

https://journals.lww.com/joem/abstract/1998/11000/mortality_among_us_commercial_pilots_and.8.aspx

The only positives I can detect:
a.There are significant genetic differences in how individuals' bodies reacts to these poisons - meaning some may be better 'protected' than others - roll the dice everyone!
b. It is some consolation that airline/manufacturers' executives and our supposed regulators (who probably knew of the risks they were asking us to take but turned a blind eye to them) will also have spent a lot of time travelling in the cabins of their own 'bastard children' and may have been subjected to many low doses of the poisons - what goes around, comes around!
c. Thanks to the sustained pressure from a number of aerotoxic pressure groups around the world, a number of major airlines are slowly doing more of the following - changing to engine oils with less 'nasties' lurking in their recipes, changing bearing seals more regularly and not over-filling oil reservoirs, fitting filters and detectors to the air system and improving crew SOPs and improving post fume-event actions......too little to late for many. Also, of course, no-one wants to admit this - ostensibly 'to protect the industry' from legal action/bills - but perhaps they hope that many of us will die before we wake up to the many liberties they have been taking with our health.

This is the kind of spin and nonsense that has cheapened the arguments about effective monitoring and understanding.

Certainly fluffing the numbers and facts. The emotive language is a huge turnoff too

[Flipster130]

Dear Dogma,
You are entitled to your opinion but I think you sound like a 50-a-day smoker saying 'everything is rosy' in your garden - just because you are still here and so, your 'exception' disproves the rule.
Maybe you have only ever flown new and well-maintained aircraft that don't have fume events and smelly cabins, or maybe you don't have the genetic disposition to the effects of the many pyrolites of engine oil. If so, you are lucky; have you been tested for the genetic bio-markers?
However, it does seem as if you are one of those who doesn't want to believe that the industry (to which most of us here have given the best years our lives) has been less than careful with our health. I can appreciate that might be a big blow to someone's esteem and self-worth which might, in turn, prevent them from accepting the situation - but it may be better to explore the possibility that some airlines and manufacturers have made profits at the expense of safety.
Nonetheless, if you have read the ever-increasing number of peer-reviewed scientific studies with an open-mind, I think you will find the science is becoming more and more clear.

I have to say that I wasn't too sure myself when I first read of Aerotoxic Syndrome. I am happy to admit to having had very little experience of fume events in aircraft types that seem to be regular subjects of air quality issues. I only recall experiencing one fume event in my career - it was in the rear cabin and to which we reacted quickly, so that the FD did not get the smelly socks smell (we think) and we were fortunate to be in a position to descend to10kft and depressurise on approach to London. Likewise, I have had very little first-hand experience of Sheep-Dippers Flu or Gulf War Syndrome but, like most of the rest of the world, I have come to accept the large volume of science and epidemiological research on these and other occupational illnesses. Ultimately, I have done my research and am suitably convinced - hindsight bias maybe but also maybe not?

The bottom line is that, on the balance of probabilities, there appears to be a very strong link between hot bleed-air (contaminated by pyrolised engine oil) in the cabin space and to the ill health of numerous crews and passengers. I believe we are now in a position to know why a large number of my colleagues and friends have been debilitated - or have passed away before their time.... which perhaps is why some of us get emotional. I am sorry you cannot relate to that; it is not done for effect.
F

[blind pew]

There are always disbelievers, fortunately some get converted and realise how foolish they are.
I was given a week to live over the 75/76 winter under the watchful eye of Roger Williams who had carried out the first liver transplant.
40 years on I tried to get my Tox results from several sources but weren’t available.
In the late 80s I occasionally got blinding headaches on the DC10 and tracked it down to some of the engineers turning off one or two packs in cruise to save fuel. With one particular engineer I swore at him after I developed a blinding headache having asked him to leave all the packs on an hour before but he sneakingly turned a couple off. He took the micky out of me and my sickness. The following year I flew with him again and he apologised as he too had developed a lot of weird symptoms.
Shortly afterwards the head of training offered me an out of seniority transfer back to short haul which helped but I ended up loosing my license on medical grounds 3 years later.
After flying THE aerobatic glider with the twin brother of the guy whose estate sued BA amongst others I communicated with the heads of the first two aerotoxic organisations..Have no doubt that if aerotoxic syndrome is recognised then civil aviation as we know it today will have to have a radical overhaul and that won’t happen.
There is of course a genetic side to it just like why my urine smells after eating asparagus and the Mrs’s doesn’t.

[Manual Pitch Trim]

Another contaminated air event amongst the unreported…
“Passengers boarding a flight to Orlando were evacuated after “a strong odor” was detected on the plane, according to a spokesperson for Frontier Airlines.

Flight 1759 was scheduled to depart from Charlotte Douglas International Airport to Orlando, Florida on Wednesday evening. The flight was operated by an Airbus A321neo.

As a precaution the captain issued an evacuation notice, and 226 passengers exited the plane using the jet bridge and on evacuation slides”.





https://airlive.net/emergency/2024/03/29/passengers-evacuated-via-emergency-slides-of-frontier-airlines-flight-at-charlotte-douglas-international-airport/?fbclid=IwAR2atyzGC6vaW_j4Ta1ETj8cbGkY_O34-_1OgQyT2wWwYCNS4fvbVg4wLVo#lukt9v1uvq0487rm9c

[artee]

Another contaminated air event amongst the unreported…
“Passengers boarding a flight to Orlando were evacuated after “a strong odor” was detected on the plane, according to a spokesperson for Frontier Airlines.

Flight 1759 was scheduled to depart from Charlotte Douglas International Airport to Orlando, Florida on Wednesday evening. The flight was operated by an Airbus A321neo.

As a precaution the captain issued an evacuation notice, and 226 passengers exited the plane using the jet bridge and on evacuation slides”.

https://airlive.net/emergency/2024/03/29/passengers-evacuated-via-emergency-slides-of-frontier-airlines-flight-at-charlotte-douglas-international-airport/?fbclid=IwAR2atyzGC6vaW_j4Ta1ETj8cbGkY_O34-_1OgQyT2wWwYCNS4fvbVg4wLVo#lukt9v1uvq0487rm9c
I can understand evacuating the plane, but using the slides sounds a bit enthusiastic.

[Manual Pitch Trim]

Thanks for sharing the truth honestly. I agree with what you say. The authorities need to act and be pressured, safety isnt first here.

There are always disbelievers, fortunately some get converted and realise how foolish they are.
I was given a week to live over the 75/76 winter under the watchful eye of Roger Williams who had carried out the first liver transplant.
40 years on I tried to get my Tox results from several sources but weren’t available.
In the late 80s I occasionally got blinding headaches on the DC10 and tracked it down to some of the engineers turning off one or two packs in cruise to save fuel. With one particular engineer I swore at him after I developed a blinding headache having asked him to leave all the packs on an hour before but he sneakingly turned a couple off. He took the micky out of me and my sickness. The following year I flew with him again and he apologised as he too had developed a lot of weird symptoms.
Shortly afterwards the head of training offered me an out of seniority transfer back to short haul which helped but I ended up loosing my license on medical grounds 3 years later.
After flying THE aerobatic glider with the twin brother of the guy whose estate sued BA amongst others I communicated with the heads of the first two aerotoxic organisations..Have no doubt that if aerotoxic syndrome is recognised then civil aviation as we know it today will have to have a radical overhaul and that won’t happen.
There is of course a genetic side to it just like why my urine smells after eating asparagus and the Mrs’s doesn’t.

[Manual Pitch Trim]

https://avherald.com/h?article=51698161&opt=0


By Simon Hradecky, created Monday, Mar 25th 2024 21:06Z, last updated Monday, Mar 25th 2024 21:06Z Aviation Herald

A Lufthansa Airbus A321-200, registration D-AIDB performing flight LH-1128 from Frankfurt/Main (Germany) to Barcelona,SP (Spain), was enroute at FL310 near Lyon (France) when the crew decided to return to Frankfurt due to an oily odour in the cockpit shortly after takeoff. The aircraft landed safely back in Frankfurt about 2 hours after departure.
Incident: Lufthansa A321 near Lyon on Mar 24th 2024, fumes in cockpit

Also April 2 toxic air event, with a burning odour

An Air France Airbus A318-100, registration F-GUGO performing flight AF-7310 from Paris Charles de Gaulle to Nice (France), was descending towards Nice when the crew requested priority reporting a burning odour in the cockpit. The aircraft continued to Nice for a safe landing on runway 22L.




https://www.aeroinside.com/19324/france-a318-at-nice-on-apr-2nd-2024-burning-odour-in-cockpit?fbclid=IwAR0wDCydCyp6yDj-cep4PmtrdYVK04Aqt1l0uxruUehqfWVo-u2uG4hMIX8#

[TLoraine]

These two new published scientific papers relating to the contaminated air on aircraft issue are very significant. One discusses the mechanism which may explain why people get health effcts from exposure and one is based on research done by an engine oil manufacturer about the toxicicity of the engine oil anti wear additives used today and which will be used in the future. For those of you who follow the issue, it has long been argued by some that the engine anti wear additive blend used in engine oils - tricresyl phosphate - has very low levels of the ortho isomers of TCP known as TOCP, MOCP and DOCP so all is OK as the other isomers are ok. The other isomers (meta and para isomer blends) are constantly detected in the aircraft cabin so the hope was this argument that they were safe was correct but this new paper shows that the other isomers are anything but OK.

1. The role of nanoparticles in bleed air in the etiology of Aerotoxic Syndrome: A review of cabin air-quality studies of 2003–2023
https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/15459624.2024.2327348

2. Organophosphate toxicity patterns: A new approach for assessing organophosphate neurotoxicity
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S030438942400815X

[Flipster130]

Fascinating Tristan.....
It seems to me that all OPs (and VOCs and CO) are pretty bad things to have in the tin can cauldron of airliner cabins but solutions do exist to prevent the contamination of paying pax and unwitting crews (although the av world is a slow-adopter).
However, an issue not often discussed here, is that the longevity and bio-accumulation of these toxins in our environment may have rather worse long-term effects than previously thought.
Is it possible to stop using them altogether in aviation oil?
We seem to be seeding our world from above, rather like a crop-duster....contaminating all life on earth slowly. Or is that science fiction?

[snooky]

Latest from the petition. https://www.change.org/p/stop-contaminated-cabin-air-in-aircraft/u/32545119?cs_tk=ArknXXN8u8p-EFxvM2YAAXicyyvNyQEABF8BvPeWH3EI2TuhIcPDe_VapKw%3D&utm_campaign=01d28ceb4da14abfa309476db0d2a458&utm_content=initial_v0_7_1&utm_medium=email&utm_source=petition_update&utm_term=cs

[wcthomas]

Is it possible to stop using them altogether in aviation oil?


Possible yes, but as you say the aviation world is a slow-adopter. All jet turbine oils contain 2-3% TCP (one has a slightly different phosphate of similar structure). Removing an approved additive from a formulation and replacing it with different chemistry is considered a major change and sends the formulation back for full approvals. That process takes up to ten years and millions of dollars. Once one oil is fully approved the system may allow read across on the new additive to other formulations, although that is not written into the current process.

It is probably faster and cheaper to address the fume issue with some engine design changes or a scrubbing system in the air system.