View Full Version : Looking to start ATPL theory
Hello,
I passed my PPL skills test last week, and am looking ahead to what I may want to do with my flying.
My intention at this time is to continue towards commercial training, and as a result I'm making arrangements to start hour building (1-3 hours a week) soon and more importantly begin studying for the ATPL theory.
The most convenient time for me to do this is between now and this September, when I expect to have less free time to devote to this (I am currently balancing this with University work, but am on temporary leave so have more free time than usual). As a result, I'd be looking to hopefully pass all the exams within 6 months. I'm confident I can spend at least a few hours a day studying for this, perhaps more. It would definitely be by distance learning, as opposed to an 'in-house' course.
My two options are CATS and Bristol. It would seem at first that CATS is the better choice, due to more flexible pricing options and also being given permanent access to the online training system, which would be great for future reference after passing the exams. Bristol on the other hand do not give you access to the software updates after finishing the course, so any material you have would become more and more outdated with time. Another concern also is BGS do not allow you to start until receiving your license, which will most likely take a while due to delays in sorting out the paperwork for my application.
Another thing I need to consider is how the material is presented - I am coming from a scientific background (I study Physics). When I did my PPL, I used both the AFE and Pooleys series of books. I found the AFE books slightly worse from my perspective, as the way the technical/science related material was presented seemed to assume less background scientific understanding. I therefore ended up wasting a little time working through over-simplified explanations of certain concepts (to the point of sometimes being technically incorrect), which ended up making it more difficult to understand. The Pooleys books were a bit better in this respect. Are there any such differences between the way the CATS and BGS theory is presented? Is one more 'geared' towards students who are more scientifically minded than the other?
Another issue I came across while looking into this is that of compulsory study time. I knew already that there was a significant amount of compulsory classroom time (I think about 50 hours?) which is covered by the revision courses ('brush-up' at CATS). However, I spoke to somebody at CATS who informed me there was also a mandated minimum of time to spend studying the actual material prior to this, and that it could be assessed by looking at the length of time I spend logged into the online system (I think it was about 600 hours). What if I manage to attain a good standard in all the subjects in less than this time, or if I spend some of this time learning from the books instead?
I'd greatly appreciate any feedback on these questions, the pros/cons of CATS/BGS, or indeed anything related to the theory course.
packo1848
25th Jan 2013, 23:07
Can't comment on CATS, but I've done my ATPLs so far with BGS (just booked the last set of exams).
Good Parts of the course:
-The material is well set out and the CBT is very easy to use and to track your progress on.
-The Brush-up courses are excellent, the instructors are brilliant at what they do. I found rather than being purely revision courses I was learning quite a bit as well.
-The feedback system seems to work very well, they have a good idea of what you can expect in the exams and you can prepare well for it. This includes those rare questions where the examiner has a slightly different answer to what you might expect.
-The QB I personally found very useful, it splits each subject down into individual topic scores allowing you to quickly and easily identify any weak areas to concentrate on. You can also test yourself purely on these areas if you so wish.
-If you are looking to do it all quite quickly I'd say 2 sittings of exams is better than 3, it all adds up to roughly the same time away but theres less of a mess around factor when only doing it twice (assuming no re-sits).
-You have use of the ATP forum, which is frequented by the instructors at Bristol, a useful tool if you have a burning question.
-The technical support for the CBT is excellent, I had an issue with mine recently (turned out to be an issue with my computer taking a few hours to catch up with the software) and they were extremely helpful in rectifying it over the phone/email.
Disadvantages:
-As you mentioned above; price and non-permanent access to the updates.
-Splitting the exams into 2 sittings is quite some workload, the 1st module is 8 exams which is quite a lot to study for in one go (albeit I found them easier than I'm finding mod 2). Also granted here you don't have to sit the exams in 2 sittings, you can split them into as many sittings as you like within the limits.
The assumed knowledge in the ATPLs is probably around GCSE level, so with a science background you may find that some of it is teaching you to suck eggs. I wouldn't treat it as such though, I found thinking too deep into some areas just lead me astray and I just had to accept what was written in the text book.
As for BGS not allowing you to start before receiving your licence, have you phoned and explained your situation? I have a sneaking suspicion the girls on the desk may be happy to send you the materials while you're waiting on your licence, don't hold me to that though.
Good luck with it :ok:
Many thanks for your great post, will take that into account.
Best of luck also with the last of your exams!
portos8
28th Jan 2013, 07:57
Bristol Groundschool is a nice system, though a bit pricy I do think you get value for money. Some schools using Bristol allow you to spread the exams over a longer period so worth looking into a more "flexible" approach.
ATIS31
28th Jan 2013, 20:20
Have you thought about ProPilot at Coventry ? I went to a openday last year
and am considering going to them, has anyone recent experience on their Distance Learning Course ?
Hey Odai,
I'm in the same situation as you. It is possible to start your ATPLs without your actual license at Bristol. However they told me that the EASA rules state that you need it prior to starting on ATPL. Do you think it would cause a problem to start now? Im currently waiting for my license to arrive.
Hey guys,
BYR, if Bristol are willing to send you the materials before getting the license I'm guessing then it won't be an issue with EASA, assuming you're just getting a head start on the material?
I've also just looked into the courses at Oxford and Profpilot. Any feedback on these?
The Oxford course doesn't seem to be ideal due to not all the material being online and the highly structured (ie non-flexible) nature of their course. Not to mention the price, which is higher than Bristol.
I'm still confused also about the EASA mandated minimum hours for study at home (quoted as being anywhere from around 500 to 600 hours). Would it be an issue if I got to a good standard after logging less than this time?
Sovi3tskiy
31st Jan 2013, 16:38
With Bristol GS its great, but you need to be in control, have a set traget and plan, the 2 sittings thing isnt needed, when I did mine a few people sat 4 or 5 of the exams then the others a month later or so on just to make it easier, but you can only do the exams if you did the brush up course on that topic!
Fun, great guys Bristol Gs, pro's at what they do, the only disadvantages I guess is finding accommodation, If they would have onsite some kind of hostel would be good, as when you book now you have to fight for places and you can get shafted and pay a lot for the 4 weeks total...
packo1848
31st Jan 2013, 17:32
Odai, don't worry about any minimum hours to study at home; you'll easily clock hours up reading through the material, taking progress tests and revising. I don't even think they're recorded to be honest, may be wrong though.
redsnail
31st Jan 2013, 17:53
When my hubby came over to the UK to convert his ATPL. He went to Bristol. He said that they were the best theory providers he's ever seen and experienced.
Given at the time he had over 7,000 hours and 3 jet types on his licence + he was a former theory and flight instructor, his assessment had some basis of merit.
This is not a sponsored advert for BGS.
Thanks again for your responses guys.
I would go for Bristol, but the real killer is the 4 weeks total in brush up courses. I've always learnt best on my own, and this has been apparent from my university studies. So the brush up courses for me would really just be box ticking, which is frustrating.
In this regard I think Profpilot is ideal, as they only require your presence in Coventry for 12 days total I think, but they do not offer any electronic learning material (apart from the ipad software). I'd be OK with going to Oxford for the 4 weeks total as I'm very fond of the city, but again the course price is extortionate and they also do not offer the full course in an electronic format.
I guess an option could be to register on the Profpilot course and buy the Bristol software (ATP Digital), for £500, but this really is expensive. Or just any third party software from an aviation supplier (I see that Oxford have their OATMedia line available publicly).
/sigh
redsnail
4th Feb 2013, 09:42
The brush ups aren't there to teach you. They're there to prepare you for the exams. Think of it as exam technique revision.
go around flaps15
4th Feb 2013, 12:38
I completed my ATPLS a few years ago and had one or two problems with Performance.
After a recommendation from a friend I decided to go for a performance brush up in Bristol Ground School.
I had a really nice instructor who brought me through the various parts of the subject that I was finding difficult. I felt very confident leaving the brush up,and really felt I had a better understanding of the subject. I passed the exam no problems at all.
Performance forms an integral part of every single working day that I have(737-800 2500 hours)
It was a subject that I hated and just could not get my head around the day before I went for the brush up at BGS,but it changed into a subject that I both enjoy and find very interesting to this day.
BGS worked for me:ok:
Flaymy
5th Feb 2013, 15:16
Have you looked at CAPT? They have shorter brush-up courses, and a more convenient location for a lot of people.
taxistaxing
11th Feb 2013, 10:52
Odai,
I looked a BGS and was impressed with what I saw. However I went with CATS in the end, mainly because of the flexibility they offer (they are also substantially cheaper than BGS, particularly if you go for the on-line only course). After a quick look at the CATS notes I bought an old copy of BGS materials from eBay and have used these as the cornerstone of my study. In my opinion they are clearer than the CATS offering and it has been useful having reference to two sources of notes as having alternative explanations of concepts aids understanding.
You will find that the brush-ups really are just the icing on the cake and a hoop you are required to jump through by the CAA. In fact, CATS themselves advise that you don't attend a brush-up until you're consistently scoring 80% + in practise papers. Therefore I wouldn't give too much weight to the brush-up courses when choosing which school you go with.
The content of the course isn't that difficult. The people who seem to struggle with the course are the people who are not used to study, either because they haven't ever done any or because it's years since they left school/university. It undoubtedly takes quite a bit of self discipline - in my case getting up at 5:30am every morning, and working through to 8:30 before leaving for work. I've found that this has been enough to achieve decent (i.e. 90% +) results in the exams I have taken so far (fingers crossed for the results I'm currently awaiting :uhoh:).
I'd also say that you should be at significant advantage coming from a scientific background. You'll probably know more than most of the tutors, and also you will have developed the ability to study independently during your degree which should be a big help.
Thanks for all the advice guys.
Flaymy, I had a look at CAPT but it seems they also run their brush up courses for two weeks, similar to BGS.
Taxistaxing, I also considered going for the £999 course at CATS, and simply purchasing material, whether digital or printed, elsewhere. From the sample that is online, it doesn't seem the notes are all that good.
With regards to the brush-ups, my main issue with them is the amount of time I'll have to spend in (and pay for) accommodation, travel arrangements etc. So the shorter/fewer the better. This is the real killer with regards to BGS, two weeks is simply too long for me.
CATS is more manageable, with Profpilot seemingly the best in this regard, but with the latter being relatively expensive.
I wish you all the best for your remaining exam results!
These two sets look particularly good with an attractive price:
Complete Set of 15 Jeppesen ATPL Manuals - Detailed item view - Leading Flight Equipment, Pilot Supplies, Aircraft Equipment, Aviation Headsets (http://proviationshop.co.uk/shop/article_JEPPESEN-ATPL-FULL/Complete-Set-of-15-Jeppesen-ATPL-Manuals.html?sessid=UmS2v7FhcsfvcTjRBmHpzf2PGt9tqWV0vEhWdlJ2 mBMh4p9jIPEzvhRJJw99ZclL&shop_param=cid%3D88%26aid%3DJEPPESEN-ATPL-FULL%26)
Oxford ATPL(A) Manual Volumes 1-14 on CD - Detailed item view - Leading Flight Equipment, Pilot Supplies, Aircraft Equipment, Aviation Headsets (http://proviationshop.co.uk/shop/article_CDSETOAT/Oxford-ATPL(A)-Manual-Volumes-1-14-on-CD.html?sessid=UmS2v7FhcsfvcTjRBmHpzf2PGt9tqWV0vEhWdlJ2mBMh4 p9jIPEzvhRJJw99ZclL&shop_param=cid%3D57%26aid%3DCDSETOAT%26)
If I were to go with both sets and the £999 course at CATS, it should cover everything and still come out relatively cheap.
EDIT: It now seems the course at CATS is £400 more expensive than when I last checked - talk about a missed opportunity! :p
Richard Phillips
13th Feb 2013, 11:25
Odai,
Don't worry - CATS do the ATPL's for £999 still. You just have to ask & say that you don't have the ipad.
I did this yesterday. As i already had the free PPL account, i was given access within 20-minutes, which is pretty good. :ok:
You should be able to find online versions of certain books at no cost if you use google.
"I had a look at CAPT but it seems they also run their brush up courses for two weeks, similar to BGS. "
"two weeks is simply too long for me. "
You simply are not going to get it in less than two weeks - you have to do 65 hours in the classroom (minimum) and there are duty hours regulations to abide by - 6 hours per day. That's just over more than 10 working days.
ford cortina
13th Feb 2013, 14:17
You say you can complete in 6 months. With only a few hours a day.
I think you will find that rather difficult.
Any way you look at it, you will have to do some residential.
Bristol have one of the best reputations. It is worth it
Many thanks again for the helpful responses.
Richard, thanks for the pointer - will take it into account. I hadn't realised they removed the option to opt out of the Ipad software on their website.
Paco, sorry, I meant two weeks per module was too long. As far as I can tell, Propilot meet the mandatory classroom time within 12 days of attendence, CATS in 15 days, and BGS in 20 days (not counting the weekends where you'd probably still be staying in Cheddar and paying for the accommodation). I've asked BGS and they've said there is definitely no alternative to the 2 x 2 weeks they offer at the moment.
Ford Cortina, I have reviewed my options and I will probably be able to commit a bit more time than originally intended. It should hopefully be doable - if for whatever reason I cannot get it done in that time frame, I can stretch the last part out a little longer and still be well within the 18 months EASA set. The only disadvantages would be the length of time between the second and third modules (assuming I go for the 3 module course at either CATS or ProPilot), and having to delay my CPL/IR for another year - it's not ideal but isn't the end of the world. But that would be a 'backup' and it would definitely be my aim to have everything complete by the end of July or August. I realise that would require a great deal of effort on my part.
We take about the same time as propilot.
Paco, looking at the website it seems to imply (it's not too clear) there are three modules, and that each one has a two week revision course associated with it?
If it's unclear I will amend it, but if you look at the calendar page you will see that module 1 is in the first week, and modules 2/3 are covered in the second, in the last two weeks of every month. That's 9-10 working days in total. You can appear one month for module 1, and another for module 2 and yet another for module 3.
Thanks, that clears it up. Can I ask how you split up the subjects, what materials you use for teaching the course etc, and if there is any flexibility with regards to pricing options (opting in/out for manuals/software etc)?
Module 1 (covered in first week)
HPL
POF
AGK
Instruments
Module 2 (covered in 2nd week)
Law
Ops
RNAV
Met
Comms (I & V)
Module 3 (also 2nd week)
Nav
M&B
FPM
Perf
The above order is how we can get the whole syllabus inside 750 pages - there's no repetition.
They are our (my!) own notes, which are also used by Embry-Riddle, the RAF (PPL version), Transport Canada (as a reference for exam questions) and many other places. You can read the reviews of the book version by clicking on the picture on the website.
You can't really opt out of the notes since they are part of our approval - if you sign on with one school and use another's notes, you are not following the approved course.
However, we will be launching a "no printed notes" option very shortly. It will only make a slight difference to the price, however, as the the real cost of the course is in the consolidation and support while you study. This will be more of a convenience item for students who are out in the bush and don't have space for paper books.
Paco, thanks again for your response, much appreciated. Can I ask which link you're referring to specifically for reviews of the manuals, as I cannot find it on the site. Could I also ask if you have any sample/preview/demo etc of your software? Lastly, any chance you have an approximate date on when you expect to have the no printed manuals option available, and how much cheaper it is likely to be?
With regards to what you mentioned regarding using a third-party's learning materials, if that material is also part of another approved course it wouldn't really matter would it?
I looked into using Bristol's ATPDigital software (priced at £500) but was told the software can only be activated on a PC twice, and that any activation after that (if outside the initial 12 months) would require a circa £50 fee. This makes it very expensive as a long term reference tool as I format my system every 12 months or so (assuming there are no problems in between that would necessitate a format). The only alternative I know of is Oxfords ATPL CBT - which is about £1000 I think. Anyone know of any others?
With permission of the mods, you can see it directly here:
Pilot Training & Ground Studies - Electrocution's Aviation Books (http://www.electrocution.com/aviation/#JAR)
There is a link from the big picture on the front of the CAPT website for EASA Pro Pilot Studies - check out the big ad on the right.
As for cost reduction, it will only be in the order of £2-300 - the cost of the course is in the classrom stuff. The printing is only a small part of the story.
The other guy's approval means nothing in this day and age - logic would say it should, but you can't even subcontract an FTO like you could in the old days (when the trains ran on time). Sorry, it's an ATO now :)
You can use a disk imager like Acronis to take an image of your hard disk once you have it set up how you want, and every 6 months or so you can restore it. Windows needs to be reinstalled regularly anyway (which you obviously know all about) as it collects a lot of crud on the hard drive over time (it even used to slow down regularly about 3 in the afternoon, and you had to reboot to liven the memory up). Ah, those were the days....
Whirlygig
18th Feb 2013, 16:27
paco , have you just been for a stroll down memory lane and got mugged? :p
Cheers
Yeah, been getting my hands dirty inside a computer again - got a Turbonutterb*st*rd running the flightsim! :)
Thanks again for your reply Paco, will take that into consideration.
With regards to simply making an image right after a format, it's something I've considered doing in the past but unfortunately sometimes I make hardware changes that necessitate a completely fresh install with a new software setup. The 2 install limit is just too restrictive and frankly it's absurd that the software is controlled in such a way when you need to splurge £500 on it to begin with (itself an extortionate amount). Unfortunately, this kind of thing seems common from my search for a suitable course - the Nordian ATPLs ebooks for example stop functioning after only 18 months unless you pay another extortionate fee (not clear on their website, but it seems to be the entire cost, about 560 euros) to keep them accessible!
I've had a look at a few more schools, and Flying Time was another I came across. I spoke to them and they're willing to be flexible and condense the revision courses to only 3 days for me. The person I spoke to wasn't too clear on how this is organised, but I'd obviously get a guarantee that this is definitely doable before paying up for a course as it would be one of the deciding factors for enrolling. They use the Nordian textbooks - does anyone have any feedback on these and how they compare to the others?
Be careful with the three days - there is a legal minimum of time in the classroom of 10% of the study time, which for the ATPL is 650 hours, so you must do at least 65 hours in an approved classroom.
As for the Nordian books, I believe there is a thread about them if you do a search.
OK - now down most likely to go for Propilot, but also still considering Oxford or Bristol. It turns out Flying Time won't be much use to me due to the way the course dates are organised.
The downside to Bristol are their two week courses at Cheddar being too long for me otherwise I guess I would have just opted for their offering, and Oxford ends up being very highly overpriced (although I wouldn't mind spending two weeks at Oxford as I love the place, not to mention being able to sit the exams in-house).
If I went with Propilot however, it would mean I'd need to invest in third party digital software as this really is a lot easier and quicker for me to get through. I'd still use the hardcopy books from Propilot to make sure I've covered everything in their course and maybe also occassionally to have a different perspective on some concepts. As I mentioned Bristol's ATPDigital would have been ideal but I cannot justify dropping £500 on something I cannot guarantee ownership of past 18 months. Oxford's CBT series is also very expensive at nearly £1000. Further, I get the distinct impression from other posts on this forum that their material goes into a lot more detail than what is relevant, and I wouldn't have any guidance on what exactly I would need to study. Are there any other software based solutions out there that I may have missed?
Apologies for bumping this thread, I just had a couple more questions regarding this and didn't think it worth starting a new thread.
I may have difficulties in completing the groundschool in the original timeframe intended due to how long it is taking to get started. I was originally hoping to sit my last exams in the September session. I may however end up doing only the majority of the course (in the case of the Propilot course, 2 out of three modules) by the September session, with the last exams (Propilot module 3 is AGK, Instruments, Ops) not being done until, worst case scenario, the September 2014 session.
This excessive timeframe raises a few concerns for me.
Firstly, if something happens to the training provider in that span of time, what happens with any training I have already completed with them? Will, for example, any passes still count? Would I have to do all the classroom time again?
Secondly, will the material I receive for subjects such as Operational Procedures become too outdated after that much time? This is referring to materials such as hardcopy manuals which obviously aren't updated after receipt, unlike software.
Finally, how would it look to a prospective emplpyer (eg airlines) if it took me, worst case scenario, 18 months to complete the exams from the start of study to the last exam, possibly with 12 months in between two of the phases? Or will no one look into that much detail?
Your last problem is the more serious one. I am not aware of any provider likely to go down in the future due to gross mismanagement, like some recent schools have.
However, if they happened to get hit by a stray nuclear device, :) your paperwork could be taken up by another school without much problem - we did that with Dragon and with a few people from Cabair, and even PTC guys from Ireland got sorted with some schools in UK.
The material is not likely to be outdated - there is some revision of the syllabus due later this year, but don't hold your breath. After all, how many ways can you describe an altimeter? :)
Some airlines are enquiring of the study progress of some students (subject to Data Protection, of course). It is therefore in your interest to make a decision and get started. All this time you've been asking questions, you could have been a fair way into your studies. There are no bad schools in this country - it doesn't really matter which one you use as long as you have the right motivation. :) In the class, you have to do at least as much work as a distance learner.
taxistaxing
8th Mar 2013, 07:14
Morning Odai,
Time frame to get started can be very short. You simply pay the course fees (or part thereof, see below) and can get cracking straight away. If the brush-up timetable of the school in question doesn't fit with what you require, you might want to consider looking at another school. My provider (CATS) offer quite a bit of flexibility in this regard, with each of the three stages having three or four brush-ups per year. You can also chop and change subjects, and complete the exams in more than three sittings, if this suits.
In relation to the specific questions:
1. You are right to be concerned about your provider going bust mid-way through your course. To guard against this consider negotiating to pay, say, half the fees up-front and half on commencement of the final stage. This is what I have done. It doesn't eliminate risk totally but gives you some downside protection.
2. The main update recently has been the change from JAA to EASA, but not all the subjects are featuring EASA questions as yet (as far as I'm aware). Ultimately the underlying subject matter doesn't change that much, and question banks are a useful method of spotting new questions. I'm actually using JAA BGS materials for my course, and then cross checking the syllabus against CATS materials for updates in the run up to each set of exams.
3. Obvious not a voice of experience, but I can't really see why an airline should care about how many sittings you have taken, or the length of your course, so long as you have achieved first time passes and high scores in each subject. After all by definition to do this you must complete the course within the 18 month timeframe from first to last exam set by the CAA.
taxistaxing
8th Mar 2013, 07:38
PS
In relation to question 1, your school going bust wouldn't affect any exam results you had already achieved since the CAA, not the school, is the exam provider. You would however need to find a new school to complete the minimum number of ground school hours, and to counter-sign your application forms for any remaining exams.
DumpingTheRat
8th Mar 2013, 12:03
BGS are the the best by far IMHO when you go distance learning.
The previous poster was right a few hours a day and complete in six months is gonna be very hard work , if you think full time ground school is 6 months and they are in the classroom 8 hrs a day.
You are going to have to plump for the brush ups whther you want to or not they are a required aspect of the course .If you say you always study better alone think of it as learning to work and study with others , an ethos that will be a permanent part of any career you may have in the industry
Many thanks for all the responses guys.
Paco, do you mind if I ask about the specifics of accommodating those external students? For those who had already completed parts of the course, did they have to redo all the classroom hours from scratch, even for the subjects they had already completed (assuming the modular structure was different to yours)?
Taxistaxing, my main concern would indeed be the logistics of getting my studies finished rather than lost money if, God forbid, my chosen school were to go bust. My problem is that after this September I'll have very little time to study again until around June 2014. So having to redo groundschool hours to fit to another provider's course would be a big setback, assuming I can't get everything finished before this September.
DumpingTheRat, I am relying on my experience with my Physics degree helping out with the material. Everyone I've spoken to has said it should help considerably, considering the amount of scientific material in the course. So hopefully what I plan to do should be doable. If it isn't, I can make time summer next year to finish off.
Are there any other providers I may have missed? I can't seem to find any other than Oxford, BGS, Propilot, CAPT, CATS, and Flying Time - are these the only available providers?
Thanks again guys.
DumpingTheRat
13th Mar 2013, 21:59
Odai , yes without a doubt the physics knowledge you have will help with PoF, Perf, GNav possibly agk and RNav but remember it is not the level of difficulty that is the issue with the atpls' im thick as pig ****e and understand nothing about physics . Any idiot can pass the exams , it is the sheer volume that is the issue . The actual scientific material is actually in the minority when compared to the amount of pure knowledge to be acquired from the various other subjects most of which have no scientififc basis .
Good luck
Thanks!
Yeah, I had a nagging feeling that would be the case. Ah well, I guess I'll just have to try my best - got a fall-back option anyways. :p
Odai - the process is simple enough - if you came to me and said your school had gone bust, I would need to see what progress tests you had done, and what exams you had already passed, then structure the rest of your course with us to take care of the rest. There may be some repetition because schools tackle the subjects in different orders, but I wouldn't worry too much about that.
I would need evidence from the other school, of course, but this sort of thing is at HOT's discretion. CAA agreement would usually be a formality.
BTW - your physics degree, while useful, is overkill. As mentioned above, it is the volume of stuff that is the problem. You will also need lessons in bad English for the exam questions :)
That's great, thanks for the clarification! :)