View Full Version : All Line Training in Indonesia Cancelled!!
avgeek23
18th Jan 2013, 04:56
I heard yesterday that the DGCA in Indonesia has brought in a new rule stating no Indonesian airline may hire any foreign flight crew with less than 250 hours on type.
Can anyone confirm when this will take effect? Is it immediate?
I'm guessing it will have a huge impact on all those poor guys lined up for Lion Air through EagleJet!
Luke SkyToddler
18th Jan 2013, 07:27
If they were "poor" they sure as hell wouldn't be involved with Eaglejet, it's for rich kids only :rolleyes:
TypeIV
18th Jan 2013, 07:42
:D:D:D:D If this is true
inner
18th Jan 2013, 07:48
Back side of the medal is that non typerated people can forget applying overthere, so yes, also the poor people. This rule is just to protect the locals.
It is getting worse every single day in this industry.
This rule is just to protect the locals...and the EU, US of A and RoW don't also protect their own?
Vsnake
18th Jan 2013, 09:05
I'm not sure this will stop line training programs. Look in Turkish, the rule is 1500h for foreign pilots but there is still many line training programs going on..
:bored:
inner
18th Jan 2013, 09:13
@zft, what concerns europe, NOP!!!!!!
This is europe of today.
I'm sorry but you've lost me?
TypeIV
19th Jan 2013, 07:16
It is getting worse every single day in this industry.
How is the industry getting worse by removing alot of P2F opportunities?
inner
19th Jan 2013, 07:42
.....by also making not typerated guys (non paying people) impossible to get a chance.
Raccatto
19th Jan 2013, 08:32
What's the point ?
LINE TRAINING 500h on type > 250h on type Indonesian DGCA rule.
Maybe am i wrong?
Or when you are eligible to start a line there, , are they going to hire you for starting the 500 h ? ok,in this case things change.
bye.
Feedmemore
19th Jan 2013, 08:54
Look to buy 250h or more in Europe.
Then go to Indonesia, buy 500 hours or more.
Then come back to Europe and start a new line training as this is the law for each airline you will go....
This is what guys you don't want to understand, once you are out Of the airline you need to restart the whole line training process.
TypeIV
19th Jan 2013, 09:06
by also making not typerated guys (non paying people) impossible to get a chance.
They take $25-40k for the line training and they have more applicants than opportunities (rated guys), hence the constant increase in price for the LT. I don't see them taking any non rated + non paying guys in the foreseeable future for this reason mate.
This rule would make the industry more good than bad I would guess. The Indonesian P2F schemes are a cancer to the industry. The AB-initios even include the cost for TR+LT in their total training cost from day one nowadays, it's no longer a move of desperation, they count on having to do the LT+TR. That's how bad the situation is. :ugh:
pilotchute
19th Jan 2013, 09:24
Guys,
The 250 hour thing is if you want to fly with a validation of your current licence. If your employer will organise an Indonesian licence then it is no problem to have less or no time on type at all.
ROO-C26B
19th Jan 2013, 15:07
Pilotchute,
Is there any chance you could direct me to the reference regarding the new 250 hrs on type requirement? I could not find it on the DGCA website.
Thanks,
Cheers.
PilotWA123
20th Jan 2013, 02:59
I am interested to see the reference as well... Could not find anywhere..
pilotchute
20th Jan 2013, 04:01
That's from HR at Airfast for the DHC-6 jobs they advertised. I have turbine time but none on the Twotter so they can't validate my licence and they won't get you an Indonesian licence unless they think you will be around long term.
Phenom100
20th Jan 2013, 11:20
In the coming months i will starting with a well know carrier in Indonesia (not Lion) and i have NO time on type. So this may be just a Airfast restriction.
jetjockey696
20th Jan 2013, 14:16
if you are desperate... you can get indonesian license... pay for yourself.. 6500USD for endorsement the going rate... :p
Phenom100
20th Jan 2013, 15:47
I already have DGCA License and have flown in Indonesia for many years.
pilotchute
20th Jan 2013, 22:21
Phenom,
My comment was in regards to validations. If you have an Indo licence you don't have any restriction with regards to time on type as you say.
Feedmemore
21st Jan 2013, 04:30
You can still corrupt an official in Indonesia and they will stamp your logbook and say you flew with them.... Without touching the plane.
Because we don't need really to fly the plane,it s just to get a job....
brasmelzuit
21st Jan 2013, 06:45
regulation number : AU.4301/1/1/DJPU.DKUPPU/2013
Regarding foreign pilots, those are about to commence flying in Indonesia, either to convert or validate their license, must have a minimum of 250hrs on the aircraft they intend to fly.
The regulation is in forced from January 10, 2013
I cant find on their website, but the authority has made a public announcement.
local website:
detikcom : situs warta era digital (http://www.detik.com/news/read/2013/01/21/100533/2147971/10/kemenhub-perketat-syarat-pilot-asing-di-maskapai-penerbangan-nasional)
Tomasz
22nd Jan 2013, 14:15
Govt Tightens Rules on Use of Foreign Pilots by Indonesian Airlines
January 21, 2013
Indonesia's Transportation Ministry has tightened the requirements for the use of foreign pilots by Indonesian airlines, a ministry release said on Monday.
"The move has been taken in the context of improving aviation safety, especially to prevent a number of air incidents, including serious ones, involving foreign pilots," the ministry said in the press release.
The National Committee for Transportation Safety in December said that the Sukhoi Superjet crash that killed all 45 people on board during a demonstration flight in May was due to the foreign pilot's unfamiliarity with the terrain of West Java’s Mount Salak.
In mid-October, a Sriwijaya Air plane carrying 96 passengers landed at Tabing airbase in Padang, West Sumatra, 12 km from its intended destination of Padang airport. A ministry spokesman called it a "serious" breach of safety, though the landing was normal, and its foreign pilot was suspended pending investigations.
The ministry said that foreign pilots should have the appropriate flying hours for the type of aircraft they pilot.
"The transportation minister, in this case the air transportation directorate general, is requiring that foreign pilots wishing to apply for an Indonesian license or to validate theirs should have at least 250 flying hours for the specific aircraft they want to fly," the ministry said.
Airline operators wishing to use foreign pilots should also meet all requirements, including meeting the minimum flying hours requirement, when applying for validation or endorsement with the air transportation directorate general.
The release said that the new requirement took effect as of Jan 10.
Some 600 foreign pilots are currently estimated to be working with Indonesian airlines such as Lion Air, Citilink, Garuda Indonesia, Wings Air and Sriwijaya Air.
In 2011, 650 Indonesian pilots for Garuda Indonesia went on strike over wage inequality between Indonesian and foreign pilots. Following the strike, Garuda announced it planned to only use Indonesian pilots in the future. But in August 2012, Garuda said that as the airline wanted to add more jets to serve its regional and international routes, it was looking to use foreign pilots again.
Full article here - JakartaGlobe (http://www.thejakartaglobe.com/home/govt-tightens-rules-on-use-of-foreign-pilots-by-indonesian-airlines/566706)
Ministry of Transportation (Indonesia) / Kementerian Perhubungan Republik Indonesia (http://www.dephub.go.id/read/berita/15880)
Govt Tightens Rules on Use of Foreign Pilots by Indonesian Airlines
January 21, 2013
Indonesia's Transportation Ministry has tightened the requirements for the use of foreign pilots by Indonesian airlines, a ministry release said on Monday.
"The move has been taken in the context of improving aviation safety, especially to prevent a number of air incidents, including serious ones, involving foreign pilots," the ministry said in the press release.
The National Committee for Transportation Safety in December said that the Sukhoi Superjet crash that killed all 45 people on board during a demonstration flight in May was due to the foreign pilot's unfamiliarity with the terrain of West Java’s Mount Salak.
In mid-October, a Sriwijaya Air plane carrying 96 passengers landed at Tabing airbase in Padang, West Sumatra, 12 km from its intended destination of Padang airport. A ministry spokesman called it a "serious" breach of safety, though the landing was normal, and its foreign pilot was suspended pending investigations.
The ministry said that foreign pilots should have the appropriate flying hours for the type of aircraft they pilot.
"The transportation minister, in this case the air transportation directorate general, is requiring that foreign pilots wishing to apply for an Indonesian license or to validate theirs should have at least 250 flying hours for the specific aircraft they want to fly," the ministry said.
Airline operators wishing to use foreign pilots should also meet all requirements, including meeting the minimum flying hours requirement, when applying for validation or endorsement with the air transportation directorate general.
The release said that the new requirement took effect as of Jan 10.
Some 600 foreign pilots are currently estimated to be working with Indonesian airlines such as Lion Air, Citilink, Garuda Indonesia, Wings Air and Sriwijaya Air.
In 2011, 650 Indonesian pilots for Garuda Indonesia went on strike over wage inequality between Indonesian and foreign pilots. Following the strike, Garuda announced it planned to only use Indonesian pilots in the future. But in August 2012, Garuda said that as the airline wanted to add more jets to serve its regional and international routes, it was looking to use foreign pilots again.
Full article here - JakartaGlobe (http://www.thejakartaglobe.com/home/govt-tightens-rules-on-use-of-foreign-pilots-by-indonesian-airlines/566706)
Ministry of Transportation (Indonesia) / Kementerian Perhubungan Republik Indonesia (http://www.dephub.go.id/read/berita/15880)
Govt Tightens Rules on Use of Foreign Pilots by Indonesian Airlines
January 21, 2013
Indonesia's Transportation Ministry has tightened the requirements for the use of foreign pilots by Indonesian airlines, a ministry release said on Monday.
"The move has been taken in the context of improving aviation safety, especially to prevent a number of air incidents, including serious ones, involving foreign pilots," the ministry said in the press release.
The National Committee for Transportation Safety in December said that the Sukhoi Superjet crash that killed all 45 people on board during a demonstration flight in May was due to the foreign pilot's unfamiliarity with the terrain of West Java’s Mount Salak.
In mid-October, a Sriwijaya Air plane carrying 96 passengers landed at Tabing airbase in Padang, West Sumatra, 12 km from its intended destination of Padang airport. A ministry spokesman called it a "serious" breach of safety, though the landing was normal, and its foreign pilot was suspended pending investigations.
The ministry said that foreign pilots should have the appropriate flying hours for the type of aircraft they pilot.
"The transportation minister, in this case the air transportation directorate general, is requiring that foreign pilots wishing to apply for an Indonesian license or to validate theirs should have at least 250 flying hours for the specific aircraft they want to fly," the ministry said.
Airline operators wishing to use foreign pilots should also meet all requirements, including meeting the minimum flying hours requirement, when applying for validation or endorsement with the air transportation directorate general.
The release said that the new requirement took effect as of Jan 10.
Some 600 foreign pilots are currently estimated to be working with Indonesian airlines such as Lion Air, Citilink, Garuda Indonesia, Wings Air and Sriwijaya Air.
In 2011, 650 Indonesian pilots for Garuda Indonesia went on strike over wage inequality between Indonesian and foreign pilots. Following the strike, Garuda announced it planned to only use Indonesian pilots in the future. But in August 2012, Garuda said that as the airline wanted to add more jets to serve its regional and international routes, it was looking to use foreign pilots again.
Full article here - JakartaGlobe (http://www.thejakartaglobe.com/home/govt-tightens-rules-on-use-of-foreign-pilots-by-indonesian-airlines/566706)
Ministry of Transportation (Indonesia) / Kementerian Perhubungan Republik Indonesia (http://www.dephub.go.id/read/berita/15880)
Skydive007
23rd Jan 2013, 03:05
I am not surprised. I think this is a whole setup to make few bucks arrange by a team of players inside and out. Don't waste your ur money on P2F.
There are plenty of other opportunities around the world besides A320 or 737. Just expand your search.
Now a days there are lot of TP aircraft work and looks better then a jet plus pays more than a jet too.
Companies who chargers 50k on line training and and etc they make more than 50% of the total as pure profit to the company.
So look around.
Taking Indonesian CPL is also not going to work.....Expat FO shall have 250 hours on type to fly in indonesia.
so if you are an expat and looking for a job in indoesia, and have less than 250hours on type, there is NO CHANCE.
avi8r.mir
28th Jan 2013, 19:29
There is a reason why there are so many jobs in Indo right now. I just came back to Europe from Jakarta. The place is a **** hole and they have no idea how to manage the airline. Treating pilots like dogs. And the place to live is very bad, traffic is BAD, Duty time is BAD, Condition to rent a place to stay is BAD. Well i am glad that i am back.
Good Luck to thous who are going there or starting with any airline! i give 2 months u will be back in ur country looking for another career.
fareez36
29th Jan 2013, 13:16
mind sharing here Avi8r?
:8
ROO-C26B
30th Jan 2013, 01:19
Avi8r,
I agreed Indonesia is not everyone's cup of tea. You must be one of those FOs recently failed the sim check twice and got sent home because you cannot meet the standard and cut the grade.
Happy flying.:ok:
JulieFlyGal
2nd Mar 2013, 12:03
In the coming months i will starting with a well know carrier in Indonesia (not Lion) and i have NO time on type. So this may be just a Airfast restriction.
Phenom100, you mean to say the DGCA will still allow foreigners to fly if they don't have time on type, but do have an Indo licence?