Ejection Seat or Butt Fire?

[Temp Spike]

Regarding these easily obtained ejection photographs I would like to ask the experienced;

1.Does one’s buttocks get warm?

2. Does it always involve head scalping?

https://encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQ_7SmoZNsXQTQuHxBrKXyc6ceic0KAClsXfA_RrUB s-vvW2moQ

https://encrypted-tbn1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRHlbuDHMoozUREKSPRc6Zb6Jetc6Jb8ydGFYBIXc9 R6okkuxyE

[wiggy]

Err....

1. No
and
2. No (despite the nickname....)

[Archimedes]

One would assume that in such a scenario, the buttocks might be too busy clenching for them to notice any sensation of heat...

[RetiredF4]

1.Does one’s buttocks get warm?

Depends what you ate the day before:\

[CoffmanStarter]

But you do tend to be a couple of inches shorter :}

[Temp Spike]

Thanks!

I personally saw a pilot eject from an A7 as the attack/fighter lifted off the runway at Tinker AFB about 25 years ago. Shocking and violent, but saved his life as one wing folded on the step. Still his flight suit butt area appeared to be smoking as he lay face down in the grass next to the runway. Seeing these photos, it occurred to me that the heat must be tremendous in the enclosed cockpit as the rockets fire. I was also under the impression that their flight suits were made of nomex or otherwise non-flammable.

[BOAC]

Rockets do not fire 'in the cockpit'. The initial movement is cartridge powered until up the rail when the rockets let go.What is "as one wing folded on the step"?

[twothree]

Many years ago a certain individual ejected from the back seat of an A-4. His seat was not of the Martin Baker type and the efflux from the discharging cartridges of this seat vented via several small louvres, directed down and out from the seat as it travelled up the rail.
HOWEVER, one of these louvres had been positioned the wrong way. i.e. it pointed towards the seat pan, and the flames burnt thought the seat pan, through part of the dinghy he was sitting on, through part of his parachute harness and through his flight gear.
So far so bad, HOWEVER, because one of the louvres on one side was pointing the wrong way, the ride up the rail was not as smooth as normal and the individual suffered breaks on his legs and arms, AND a broken neck as his body flailed during the "ride".
The good news. Because he was rather light-weight, the seat just managed to clear the tail of the aircraft., and although part of his parachute harness was burnt through, the remainder dropped him in the water at a reasonably safe speed. He was picked up and survived, and eventually returned to flying.

[LowObservable]

An A-7D belonging to a funny outfit called the 4450th TG, thereby opening some interesting investigations at the time.

[Temp Spike]

Nope, it was on the runway. I know about the lawyer getting squashed in his house by the A7 you mention. Same pilot though, ( I think ).

Don't remember any imeadiate house clearings. Many after the tornado a decade ago.

[West Coast]

No it wasn't on the runway. It was in a suburb of Oke city where it landed. Yes, it was associated with the F-117. I was driving cross country and stayed the night at the Q at TIK a couple days after the accident.

[Temp Spike]

We are talking about two different crashes. There where NO stealth fighters at Tinker then. Transit or otherwise. What the hell is this?

[West Coast]

Do a little research.

[Temp Spike]

Up yours liar. I was THERE!

F117? In 1985 at at Tinker AFB? General Burpee was in command of AFLC at the time.

Who the hell do you think your dealing with here?

No wonder the Brits are sick of Americans on this blog.

[West Coast]

Up yours? Really fonzi.

The aircraft crashed off base. It was an A-7, D model to be exact, the unit was associated with the then secret squirrel F-117 program. Your memory is simply slipping after all the years. It happens.

It crashed into a house in Midwest city, that being a 'burb of Oke city, not far from TIK. Give me enough time and I'll get you the cross streets. You want the bureau number of the jet? I got that as well.

[Temp Spike]

We are talking about two different crashes. I was there during both get it yet liar?

Keep looking up old news reports please and you might get it right eventually. Try midwest city oklahoma. Tinker does not have a runway 17. Both crashes was off runway 36

[Temp Spike]

There was no "squirrel unit". Both A7s had just been rebuilt at the overhaul facility. What squirrel unit? Who the hell cares about what unit anyway? totally irrelevant. All AF A7s were rebuilt there! There is no "Squirrel unit".

Looking up data don't mean your smart or experienced with aviation. It just means you are a keyboard commando. Like about millions and millions of other people????

You are the squirrel. lol

[West Coast]

I made no mention of a runway, perhaps you might be addressing another poster.


Secret squirrel was a term widely used in the Marine Corps when discussing things of a classified nature such as the F-117 at the time. Thought you mentioned you were once in the Marine Corps, if so you would have recognized the term instantly, it was a widely used term.

Can you provide me with specifics of the crash so we may find out who is correct? I saw a couple of crashes in my time, saw the aftermath of a few more. With a little thought I can nail down dates to within a few weeks to a month or two.

Her ya go, you can buy your own secret squirrel patch

Secret Squirrel Patch - OCP (Model #:80336) (http://www.usamilitarymedals.com/secret-squirrel-patch-p-12539.html?gclid=CLCwvb7y7rQCFYp_QgodpysA5A)

[Temp Spike]

I was in the Marines during the Vietnam war. No squirrels. No F117s. No PC keyboards. Never would have heard "squirrels".

In the 80's, no Marines at Stinker Field, no squirrels, and, I was not in the Air Force. Just a very well paid vet.

So I don't know what you are trying to prove and I cannot fathom why the hell you are trying so hard to prove it?

[West Coast]

I simply want you to provide some details about the accident so the veracity of your story can be determined. I believe you're in error. I avoid calling folks liars concerning events from a quarter century before, memories fade.

I'm not trying to prove anything.

[aerolearner]

The aircraft crashed off base. It was an A-7, D model to be exact, the unit was associated with the then secret squirrel F-117 program. Your memory is simply slipping after all the years. It happens.

It crashed into a house in Midwest city, that being a 'burb of Oke city, not far from TIK. Give me enough time and I'll get you the cross streets. You want the bureau number of the jet? I got that as well.

I suppose this could be the event you mentioned:
1987 Ramada Inn Corsair crash - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1987_Ramada_Inn_Corsair_crash)
Major Teagarden was assigned to the 4450th Tactical Training Group which was involved with the development of the Lockheed F-117 Nighthawk.

EDIT: this one is a perfect match:

8th August 1985 USAF A-7D Corsair II 69-6198 4450th TG / 185th TFG
Tinker Air Force Base Engine problems. Crashed near Oklahoma City Major Denny D. Nielsen ANG ejected

The plane, an A-7D attack jet, apparently lost power and caught fire over a densely populated section of the Oklahoma City suburb of Midwest City, said Bill George, spokesman for nearby Tinker Air Force Base.
Sorry for the confusion.

BR,

aerolearner

[West Coast]

Yes, the later...

Temp spike, had a chance to do any research?

[E L Whisty]

You two! Go down to the other end of the bar and buy each other a beer. Don't come back until you are the best of buddies!

[ORAC]

Ejection History - USAF A-7 Corsair II (http://www.ejection-history.org.uk/Aircraft_by_Type/CORSAIR_II/A_7_USAF.htm)

[con-pilot]

The only other A-7 accident at TIK that I recall was a Navy A-7E pilot that ran off a wet runway (at the time 12/30, now 13/31) on a Friday, probably in a hurry to get to the O'Club. He didn't eject, but did get to the Club later.



Not having time to check ORAC's link, I remember an A-7 accident at Tinker, just off the runway (17 back then), on a test flight when the pilot realized the ailerons were hooked up backward and ejected. If I recall correctly, the A-7 came close to hitting Building 3001. The pilot only had minor injuries.

But, this was a long time ago and my memory of the incident is hazy.

Now I'll check ORAC's link and see if I made a fool of myself. :p



By the way, I was taxing out in a T-34 after a major overhaul and during the control check I realized the ailerons were reacting the opposite way as they should from the control stick inputs. Taxied back in and sure enough, they were installed backward. The mechanic/engineer that had preformed this feat of engineering, had actually had to cut holes in the internal sheet metal to accomplish this feat.

Ah, the joy of going with the lowest bidder.


Well, okay, just checked ORAC's link, there is just the one that crashed noth of the air base listed. So I am confused. In fact, I just now remeber meeting the pilot at the NCO/O ANG Club at Will Rogers at a party.

I give up.


Maybe it was the cheap Scotch. :p

[con-pilot]

I hate to say this, and someone please double check as I might of missed this accident, but there is another A-7 accident that is missing from ORCA's link. Not blaming you ORCA. :ok:

This one was in Atlanta, GA. near Dobbins AFB/ANG Base. I saw the smoke and fire from the accident site from my hotel room at the Marriott. It was due to an engine failure and the pilot ejected at the last possible second and was severely injured. The A-7 ended up in an apartment complex near Dobbins and I seem to remember that there were fatalities on the ground. He was a Delta pilot along with being in the Air National Guard.

I was attending Jetstar initial school which was near Dobbins. It was the topic of conversation at Flight Safety the next day. This would have been in 1992 I believe. I'd have to look up my records which are stored somewhere to be sure.

Anybody else recall this accident?

[Wholigan]

OK I closed this thread after reading the first page because we do NOT talk to each other in this way on PPRuNe.

Then I read the following post on page 2 and decided to re-open the thread:

You two! Go down to the other end of the bar and buy each other a beer. Don't come back until you are the best of buddies!


Take this advice and stop being so damned rude and angry!

[con-pilot]

I was not angry, just confused. And those that know me, are not surprised. :p:

[Temp Spike]

Thanks Con.

The incident I was talking about was flown, (almost flown), by the Test Pilot and I was told his wing folded because the lock flag was installed up-side down and the wing hadn't locked. I was standing between the, (at the time), A7 hanger and the 135 hanger, (135 post dock area). They kept a T-34 in hanger north side of transit, that belonged to the CAP. Is that the one you are talking about?

Been so long ago, bldg 3001 was the big three bay hanger with 135 at the North end and B-52s at the south?

[fallmonk]

Wee bit of track but of the A7 ejection page I noticed this
"17th March 1991 USAF A-7D Corsair II 70-0953 198th TFS
PR ANG
Muniz ANGB
San Juan Damaged by saboteurs"

What Really caught my attention was damaged by saboteurs !
Anyone put some light on this ?

[con-pilot]

Yes, that had to be it. Obviously I got the year wrong.

Thanks. :ok:

TS

Is that the one you are talking about?

No, well at least I don't think so. The T-34 that I was talking about was one that had been pulled out of storage and rebuilt for the CAP. A company in Moore, Ok. got the cotract to overhaul the aircraft and I was paid a whopping 50 bucks for each test flight. After the aileron incident I didn't do too many more of them.

[con-pilot]

(additional edit: BTW con, did you transport any of those macheteros?)

Sorry, missed that. Took me a minute to figure out what you were referring to.

Err, yes I did and no I didn't, if you get my drift. Long story but a good one.

We used the ANG Base at San Juan quite a bit when I was with the USMS. It was a good trip, always out and back on a Saturday and along with true time and a half, we also received 3/4 day per diem, which was about a hundred bucks in the winter time, high tourist season rates. And about the only thing I bought down there was a coke out of the coke machine. I volunteered for every one of those flights.

[Temp Spike]

Well Con I remember CAP T-34 at stinker field.

All of the aircraft being overhauled at Tinker, (when I was there it were A7s, E3As, KC, EC, NKC-135s, B-52s, and B1s) were done by DOD civilian employees. There were no outside contractors doing overhaul work. So test flying was done 100% by sworn DOD people, civ/mil. CAP had nothing to do with the ALC. CAP was short of a base perk and I think they had C-172 (T-41) as well. But 50 buck test flights?! Sell yourself cheap will ya?

[con-pilot]

50 buck test flights?! Sell yourself cheap will ya?

Well hell, I was only 18 and in university at the time. That was good money back then in 1965/66. Had a fresh Commercial/Inst/Multi-engine ratings and couldn't wait to use them. :p

As for the CAP T-34s, they had nothing to do with Tinker AFB. The Air Force gave a bunch of T-34s to the CAP, most from storage at Davis–Monthan AFB. Civilian contractors, one being a company called 'Aircraftsmen', an FBO at Will Rogers, now owned by AAR, had a contract to rebuild/overhaul the T-34s for the CAP. They in turn sub-contracted some of the work to another company, now long gone, that was at a small airport, also now long gone, in Moore OK. That was the company that I did some test flights for.

Sorry if I gave you the wrong impression.

I had been flying T-34s since I was 16 in the Aero Club at Tinker.

[Temp Spike]

Con - I had a gov source for surplus PT6A-25 engines that I think were used in the T-34C. Picked up 12 for a song. Turned them to an outfit in Texas who in turn did some biz with another outfit, (I think in Guthrie). Don’t know if any ever made it into a T-34, but it would be interesting to find out. Really wished I’d saved a couple.