Goodbye Heathrow Tower

[HEATHROW DIRECTOR]

Here's a really sad piccy I just received from an old work colleague. It should bring tears to the eyes of anyone who worked there..

http://i1286.photobucket.com/albums/a610/brendan_mccartney/1EGLLTowerdemolished_zpsa7b67538.jpg

[DC10RealMan]

The picture is indeed very sad.

We had a lot of fun there.

[PeltonLevel]

Given some of the other cr*p that gets listed, why has this iconic building been lost? Money talks?

[Gonzo]

Falling apart and riddled with asbestos?

[spekesoftly]

The steep ramp just below the VCR, was that the location of the "climbing frame" entry?

And the bay window (bottom left) - GM's office?

[B Fraser]

Shame, I had the pleasure of visiting the glasshouse at the top one morning. What an eye-opener that was. The average age of those on duty must have been about 22 and they were incredibly professional. I expected nothing less of course however I was very impressed.

[eglnyt]

Given some of the other cr*p that gets listed, why has this iconic building been lost? Money talks?

It was listed but only on the "local" list.

[obwan]

I know it's only bricks and mortar but that is a really sad sight. :*

[Talkdownman]

Yes, HD, tears for many happy years. Like losing an Old Friend. We had great times there. Never again will a slice of beetroot be launched onto the Belisha Crossing...

[ZOOKER]

Heartbreaking picture.
UKPLC really has lost the plot.

[Sir George Cayley]

Visionaries built it and Philistines destroyed it.

SGC

[ex-EGLL]

Not a pretty sight, I only worked there for a few years, but what a fantastic few years it was.

Barry

[jackieofalltrades]

The steep ramp just below the VCR, was that the location of the "climbing frame" entry?

Yes it is. I visited the tower on a number of occasions, was very taken aback the first time I went to see how steep the stairs were.

[FlyingEagle21]

UKPLC really has lost the plot.

REALLY? Keeping an old ugly 1950s building in the middle of Europe's busiest airport. I can't believe it's been non-operational for 6 years.

Although it was an icon. Heathrow looks like it is finally changing slowly for the better and has the investment is needs. Get rid of the bombsite that is T3 and you have yourself a decent airport.

[hangten]

UKPLC really has lost the plot.

Whoa, whoa whoa. Let's not confuse nostalgia with progress. If this is UK PLC losing the plot we'd all still be commuting on steam trains and trading with clipper ships just like in the good old days...

Still, it is a shame, and I understand how it feels for anyone that worked there.

[Talkdownman]

Still, it is a shame, and I understand how it feels for anyone that worked there
I've had to get used to it. Most of the places I have worked have either been demolished (Southern ATCC, Preston ATCC, Sc ATCC Redbrae, LATCC West Drayton, Heathrow CTB, Stansted 1st Tower, Gatwick GMC, Farnborough N1 Tower, Blackbushe 'temp' tower) or remain defunct or derelict (Gatwick 1st Tower, Northern Radar Lindholme, School of ATC). Says a lot...

[DaveReidUK]

Doubtless the same sentiments were being expressed on PPRuNe in the 1950s, by those who used to work here:

http://www.abpic.co.uk/images/images/1000789M.jpg

:O
http://www.abpic.co.uk/photo/1000789/

[soaringhigh650]

It should bring tears to the eyes of anyone who worked there..

Yay. Tears of joy for me.

Great to know that the old has finally gone, including the old ways of dealing with 'clockwork mice' and setting up Class A airspace all over the place.

[Gonzo]

Excellent....that's ten pounds to me. Easy bet to win. So predictable.:ok:

[HEATHROW DIRECTOR]

Well soaringhigh650, I guess the old place is saying damned good riddance to you too.

[chevvron]

Funny when we moved out of the old (1946) tower at Farnborough (which was it's fourth tower in MK2 form of c1957) I didn't feel any sadness even having worked there from March 1974 to Nov 2002. Mind you the tower obviously knew it was on its last legs; the heating had failed and numerous leaks had started in the weeks before the move.
I took many photos of it in the following months, unfortunately lost.
The 'demolishers' lopped off the VCR within 2 weeks to give the ILS the correct clearances then left it until spring before completing the job, taking down its predecessor of 1943 (N2 Building) at the same time.

[Talkdownman]

Doubtless the same sentiments were being expressed on PPRuNe in the 1950s, by those who used to work here:
(Image, North-side Tower, by Peter Berry)
Blimey, I remember that! I worked with Peter Berry at Scottish. Is he still around taking ATC photos? Is his collection available for viewing?

[chevvron]

I've got some copies of his Farnborough stuff intended for his autobiography, but all early '50s until he was posted to Bedford.
Wasn't the Heathrow northside tower used by the police in latter years, or was it the Met Office?

[DaveReidUK]

Is his collection available for viewing? A few more here:

Air-Britain : berry (http://www.abpic.co.uk/results.php?q=berry&fields=photographer&sort=latest&limit=20)

Mostly taken at LHR in the late 40s and early 50s.

[Mooncrest]

A sad picture indeed. I've never been up there (and now I never will) but commiserations to all who feel they have lost an old friend. I hope I never see the EGNM tower suffer this fate. It is nudging fifty years old however so maybe progress will to catch up with it...:{

[Abbey Road]

Sorry to pee on your parade, people, but good riddance to the to the old edifice! :rolleyes:

[windowjob]

I had the privilege and pleasure to work with some great people and total nutters in that building for quite a few years. No matter what they put in it's place will ever come close.

If you don't recognise the past you ain't got any soul!

[HEATHROW DIRECTOR]

I guess the ghosts of the Captain and the Colonel will still be there long after the building has gone.

[Minesthechevy]

Mooncrest - when ah wer' a lad (I'm a Yorkshireman, but if you tell anyone I will not be appy, appen) I used to live in a caravan about 100 yards away from the tower towards the old (Avro?) factory. Dad was an instructor at YFS and later joined BKS. We got all posh then and moved into a real building, wiv a roof, an' running water, and everything.

[Brian 48nav]

Hear, Hear!:D

A privilege to have worked there; couldn't have believed when my brother and I went on his spotting trips to Heathrow (used to spend the morning doing my thing- bus and train spotting!!)in the late 50s that I would one day work there and even being allowed to run my own train set ie be supervisor.

Soaringhigh650

OK, come clean! The reason you are so anti-UK ATC must be because you got chopped from a cadet course or did you fail selection. Do let us know.

[DeeCee]

The Airport Police Photographer was a customer of mine around 1970 as I was selling photgraphic materials at the time. I remember that he showed me some pics he took of a crash that ended up at the base of the Tower. At first he thought many people had died due to the carnage, but it turned out to be some racehorses that were being transported in (I think) an Elizabethan. Do I recall correctly?

[DaveReidUK]

Do I recall correctly?

More or less, except that it was the wall of Terminal One that arrested the movement of the aircraft, not the control tower.

Oh, and six people did in fact die, with many others on the ground injured.

[Minesthechevy]

http://www.pprune.org/aviation-history-nostalgia/352470-airspeed-ambassador-accident-lhr-1968-a.html

1968 BKS Air Transport Heathrow crash - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1968_BKS_Air_Transport_Heathrow_crash)

[Wycombe]

Talkdownman mentioned:

Blackbushe 'temp' tower

To be fair, I think that's one case where the newer one is a distinct improvement.

[chevvron]

Well at least you don't access the new one through a trapdoor in the floor!

[Talkdownman]

the newer one is a distinct improvement
Rather more nautical than aeronautical. It was designed by the previous Senior FISO who was ex-RN ATC. It just lacks a helm, pelorus and engine order telegraph! 'Steady as she goes, Number One'...

[Sandief]

I have registered today to shed a tear with those of us that worked there.
I understand those that say it was an eye sore - but it was OUR EYESORE.

This building gave me my first job after leaving school and I worked on the 5th, 3rd and 1st floors whilst I was there.

And most significantly - I met my husband over the table tennis table there some 30 years ago now.

Yes, its all about sentiment but a very very important part of my life.

Farewell Heathrow tower - sad to see you go! :{

[chevvron]

'Number One'? To whom are you referring?

[Doors to Automatic]

I think that the 'new' tower is absolutely vile - it looks like it was designed in a pub on the back of a beer mat without any thought at all. The cable supports look like an afterthought to stop it falling down and it looks very top heavy. And its location at the end of one of the T3 piers looks plain odd. They could have done a much better job of replacing the fine old building.. :ugh:

[HEATHROW DIRECTOR]

Well said...

[SilentHandover]

Were those of you that worked in and enjoyed the old tower more attached to the tower or the people that you worked with there? There experiences and good memories you have of the building are surely more related to the people and characters rather than the bricks, mortar and windows?

[HEATHROW DIRECTOR]

It was both for me. I recall looking longingly at the Tower when I was a spotter there in the late 50s and early 60s, but never ever believed that I would work there. When I did, it was like a dream come true! I loved the layout of the Tower and Approach rooms, especially when Approach was on the 6th floor. It just seemed a magical place to be. Once I trained and got to know everyone, they too became precious and I recall them all fondly now, some 20+ years after I left there.

I detest the look of the new tower so much that I have never tried to visit it, (assuming they would have even me that is!). It has no appeal to me at all but I hope that those employed there have as much fun as I and my ex-colleagues did in the old tower..

[Gonzo]

Does a great job of heating the patio though......

Seriously though, I preferred working in the old tower...yes it was cramped in the VCR, and the view was compromised, but actually controlling traffic in the old tower was more fun. GMC was significantly more complex than it is now, due to the taxiway layout, but was more intuitive with paper strips. Also, the cramped VCR layout was a benefit when things got busy because it was pretty easy to monitor the workload of those around you.

In the new VCR you're surrounded by screens and it is very easy to get sucked into tunnel vision concentrating on your own task, and in GMC it's no longer so easy to see how busy your colleagues are.

But then of course electronic strips brings a whole lot of benefits that a paper based system couldn't.

All the above IMHO of course.

[SilentHandover]

Fair points all, I guess I just have never felt such an attachment to the towers I have worked in. I had a similar aim of working in my current regional airport's (is that how you described it Gonzo? :ok:) tower as HD from a young age and now I am working there love it but if they offered us a new sparkling shiny tower I think I'd quite happily wave goodbye to the creaking and banging and the temperamental heating system!

[Gonzo]

Mate, if you think a brand new shiny tower means they fix the heating problems then you'll be dreadfully disappointed!:}

[A30yoyo]

Air-Britain : berry (http://www.abpic.co.uk/results.php?q=berry&fields=photographer&sort=latest&limit=20)
I twisted Peter's arm to get these 15 photos put on the publicly viewable ABPIC site....in the photo albums of the Air-Britain members Yahoo Group 'ab-ix' he has several more albums including rare early colour at Farnborough.

[DaveReidUK]

I loved the way the old tower didn't need guy ropes to stop it falling over in a strong wind. :)

[A30yoyo]

There's a variety of shots of LHR towers old and new on Air-Britain : heathrow tower (http://www.abpic.co.uk/results.php?q=heathrow+tower&fields=all&sort=latest&limit=50)

[HEATHROW DIRECTOR]

All I can see on Air Britain are mainly shots of aeroplanes - some of them mine.

[ZOOKER]

"You don't know what you've got 'til it's gone".

Joni Mitchell. 'Big Yellow Taxi'.

[chevvron]

'Guy ropes'? Shirley they're fire escapes for when you can't use the lift! (A similar system was discussed in the planning stage for the present Farnborough tower - no seriously it was!)

[A30yoyo]

Apologies Heathrow Director I should have said more precisely 'shots featuring the old towers and from the new tower'.....there is a shot of the redbrick one from the new one

[Talkdownman]

'Guy ropes'? Shirley they're fire escapes for when you can't use the lift! (A similar system was discussed in the planning stage for the present Farnborough tower - no seriously it was!)
ISTR that for the Heathrow new tower we were offered the following fire escape options:

Emergency high-speed lift.
Escape capsule on a guy wire á la Flash Gordon.
Inertia reel harness (which should stop when 6 inches from the concrete...).

[chevvron]

You forgot the bungee ropes.

[aterpster]

Gonvo:

Falling apart and riddled with asbestos?

I suspect that is the operative word. Ancient buildings don't have that awful material.

[PeltonLevel]

If it's riddled with asbestos, shouldn't there be a bit less of the structure open to the air during demolition?

[AirportsEd]

"I guess the ghosts of the Captain and the Colonel will still be there long after the building has gone."

I haven't heard those stories Heathrow Director - do tell...

[HEATHROW DIRECTOR]

They were ATCOs on B Watch. Both much loved but no longer with us.

[elandel]

R.E Asbestos:
I seem to remember sometime in the eighties they removed a lot of it with men in white suits and lots of polythene - it all looked a bit like E.T.

[Gemini Twin]

I left England in 1962 bound for Australia on board a BOAC Comet 4. I have been back many times since, the last being in 2011, and once I caught sight of the red brick tower I knew I was home and all was well with the world. I guess next time it will be the Concorde at the round about..oh no wait it's a 380.

[EGLL19791986]

Sad to see the old tower go. Had lots of fun there in the 1980's when I was a young man, with HD (BMc), AC and others. LATCC gone too now! Look forward to seeing pictures of Swanwick being demolished though, preferably before I start pushing up diasies!

[DC10RealMan]

Its worth living forever to see Swanwick being demolished.

Dreadful soulless place where the Fun Police rule.

I was once with a colleague who got told off for laughing in the Swanwick canteen.

[2 sheds]

I was once with a colleague who got told off for laughing in the Swanwick canteen.
Do tell!

2 s

[DC10RealMan]

2Sheds.

Nothing to tell.

A group of us just got told off for laughing in the staff canteen.

I always remember a friend who worked for BA came to Swanwick for a visit and described it as "Waterside by the Solent" as he found it very similar to the dispiriting BA headquarters.

Somehow I couldn't imagine getting told off for laughing in the old days at LHR.

[Ninja Controller]

Swanwick became a much more vibrant place around November 2007 :E

I couldn't imagine getting told of for laughing at Swanwick nowadays. A polite foxtrot oscar would probably be forthcoming.

[cwatters]

Pitty the tower at LHR wasn't listed but English Heritage have their views on what's important. We're trying to get the few remainng cold war missile silos listed (for example at RAF Molesworth) but not sure they are interested.

[DC10RealMan]

Ninja.

Aah! that would explain it.

Fallows xx

[Doors to Automatic]

That's a very good point cwatters. How did that carbuncle in West London (Trellick Tower) manage to get Grade 2 listing but the fine tower at LHR didn't!?

[DaveReidUK]

How did that carbuncle in West London (Trellick Tower) manage to get Grade 2 listing but the fine tower at LHR didn't!?

Explained in post #3.

[Trinity 09L]

Trellick Tower = because folks pay to live there, and it gave the luvvies of Notting Hill something to adore (not much else).
An imaginative architect could have preserved the LHR Tower by building around it as a historical centrepiece (similar to British Museum) with the building they wish to put there, but money (& Spanish win).:*

[Minesthechevy]

Trinity 09L : not just CTBs, not just UK. Our local (french) hospice got a quadzillion euros to rebuild, so they totally destroy the beautiful 100+ yo building to make way for a euronowhere bland piece of modern tat. They could have preserved the facade and modernised behind it, but no - just more crap to look at.

The really disturbing thing is that some old guy who hasn't yet been born is going to be saying the exact same thing about the 2012 version one day.......

[401167H]

I loved the old tower; it had real character - by comparison, the new one is just a hastily-contrived, poorly designed tinpot stick of $hite.

and in the old tower it was amazing what could be heard through the partition walls of the dormitory ..... :E

(and we won't mention the night shift ''shenanigans'' which occurred in the snooker room!)

haha! happy days! :ok:

[Saab Dastard]

I recall visiting the old tower with BRL and a few other forumites 7 or 8 years ago, which was a great privilege and for which many thanks to those who arranged it.

That was a good day. :ok:

It is always a bit sad to see a structure being demolished that has good associations.

I also visited LATCC at West Drayton (also now gone). Gosh, I'm beginning to see a pattern - you'd better not invite me to the new tower...;)

SD

[Lon More]

We're trying to get the few remainng cold war missile silos listed (for example at RAF Molesworth) but not sure they are interested.

I believe Sub Brit (http://www.subbrit.org.uk/) are working on it too.

I opened a bottle of 40 year old malt when I read that HMP West Drayton was to be leveled to the ground.

[Vercingetorix]

Lon More
Why did you celebrate that the H M Prison West Drayton aka LATCC was to be leveled? Unhappy memories?

[360BakTrak]

Most of the places I have worked have either been demolished (Southern ATCC, Preston ATCC, Sc ATCC Redbrae, LATCC West Drayton, Heathrow CTB, Stansted 1st Tower, Gatwick GMC, Farnborough N1 Tower, Blackbushe 'temp' tower) or remain defunct or derelict (Gatwick 1st Tower, Northern Radar Lindholme, School of ATC).

Showing your age now TDM!!! ;):E

[Minesthechevy]

Unbelievable apathy wrt 'recent' history abounds in the UK.

When I was a Greenham Common Commissioner after the site was returned to 'public' ownership I tried to get TPTB to look at the preservation of the CTB and its conversion to a small aviation museum. Funds would not have been a problem, given the number of US personnel that must have passed through its doors.

But oh, no, the local residents increasingly saw it as their own private playpark, and I remember the Commission meetings usually dissolved into a NIMBY yah-boo session worthy of PMQs...

[P160]

Worked there from 1986 to 2010, always knew it was to be demolished by BAA after we moved over to the abomination at the end of Pier 7 but it still came as a bit of a shock when I saw the photos in the press last week. Many happy memories of working there and the characters. When the outfield was relaid at Lords I bought a square of the turf and it became hallowed ground in my garden, I even took it with me when I relocated, wonder if I could have a brick as a memento ? ......................I'll get me coat :8

[Lon More]

Unhappy memories
Not the most pleasant place to work. The view from the canteen was guaranteed to get a cycle off to a bad start; as was the view of couples having knee-tremblers over the road from the Ops Room at night.
Got on OK with most of the people, with a couple of exceptions

[HEATHROW DIRECTOR]

Not pleasant? Blimey, you were there at the wrong time mate!

[Talkdownman]

HD, Lon More is caught up in thread drift about HMP West Drayton.

[vancouv]

I recall visiting the old tower with BRL and a few other forumites 7 or 8 years ago, which was a great privilege and for which many thanks to those who arranged it.


SD - I believe I was one of those fellow forumites. As a lowly PPL it was a great experience.

I remember that while in the tower the Captain of a US heavy was told off as he became No. 1 for departure but then had to admit he hadn't received all his paperwork (which he had been hoping to get before reaching that point) and so couldn't go - he had to taxi round to the back of the queue. The controller wasn't happy, but I was pleased to see even the big boys get it wrong sometimes!

Gonzo - I think you were the person that showed us round, for which I'm very grateful.

Vancouv

[HEATHROW DIRECTOR]

vancouv. Amazing. That was happening when I left the tower some 20 years again. Culprits then were usually BA!

[LAS1997]

Can they not save some of the bricks? I would buy one for old times sake. Why not at least preserve the glass tower bit? Surely it can find a new home either in another part of the airport; say the visitors centre or maybe a local aviation museum, Brooklands?

[windowjob]

So much of the original kit should have been saved - the original "data transfer system" beautifully engineered with rollers and said to have been made by the Fire service for example.

The "Air" Controllers used to put the dead strips into a tray on top of the desk before the ATSA took them for filling in the Movement book.
This was usually done with a well practised lob. Such was the expertise that a clearly impressed visiting pilot said "I've been here nearly an hour and they've not missed with one"
Twin DFTI's, proper anemometers, barrel lights, feather duster for the lighting panel (well that's what they said they used it for :uhoh:) - ah nostalgia ain't what it used to be!

[DC10RealMan]

What happened to the ex U-Boat binoculars?

[HEATHROW DIRECTOR]

Pete Bish has the data transfer system.

[Lukeafb1]

Scanning through the thread, I don't recall anyone mentioning why it is actually being demolished. Its nothing to do with 'falling down' or asbestos. Simply that the ground space is needed for the new T2A area.

My office was in there until a few months ago and I can tell you that apart from technical equipment, the goldfish bowl was almost as it was left when it closed. And as has been mentioned, the ladder up to the top is still as 'interesting' as it always was! I'm amazed that the 'Elf and Safety' zealots didn't get in on the act.:ok:

[Minesthechevy]

DC10RM - I don't believe the bins did come from a U boat, but I am told they were taken to the new tower.

[Bigears]

I was lucky enough to get a visit by simply ringing the doorbell one Sunday morning in late February 1984 whilst on my way to my ATCA Course at Bournemouth. No official ID, just 'I'm passing, any chance of a look around please?'! Different times, much missed.
If any of the controllers or assistants reading this were on duty at the time, thank you for allowing me in, stashing my suitcase out the way and giving me a tour which was leisurely and extremely interesting.
I was made to promise that the photos wouldn't appear in the next edition of Flight International, and I hope that sufficient time has passed that anyone in the photos has no objection.
Sorry about the quality- scans of slides, and I should point out that it was a quiet February round about late morning- hence AIR controllers hats off in the first photo. I hope they bring back some happy memories- certainly seemed a very happy group of people at the time.

http://i1280.photobucket.com/albums/a499/Bigears3/Twr1_zps803b4869.jpg

http://i1280.photobucket.com/albums/a499/Bigears3/Twr2_zps9e9d4c90.jpg

http://i1280.photobucket.com/albums/a499/Bigears3/Twr3_zps8d36a716.jpg

http://i1280.photobucket.com/albums/a499/Bigears3/Twr4_zps56d52cb9.jpg

http://i1280.photobucket.com/albums/a499/Bigears3/Twr5_zps7f6dceca.jpg

http://i1280.photobucket.com/albums/a499/Bigears3/Twr6_zpsc164a23a.jpg

[Minesthechevy]

Cooo. Block 16 coned, the extension stands out, no fast turn-off to the south from 27L. From all that red tape round T4, I'm guessing it was still under construction.

Bigears - is there any way you could get hard copies of these to talkdownman or HD? There is an occasional Heathrow ATC nostalgia evening held in some pub somewhere and I'm sure the old gitXHXHXH revered gentlemen who attend would appreciate it.

[DC10RealMan]

One of the first BA B757s and a BMA SH360 on the Birmingham and East Midlands service in the Bravos, and a Bangladesh Biman DC10.

Happy days!

[Talkdownman]

Looks like it was 'D' Watch on!

[Minesthechevy]

DC10RM - your joy at seeing a DC10 has clouded your memory - them's the Charlies, methinks - although yer eyesights not bad, I didn't make out the shed on C32.

[DC10RealMan]

DC10, Mans aeroplane!

None of this girly glass cockpit nonsense.

[HEATHROW DIRECTOR]

D Watch=Doom Watch.

Mr & Mrs Park and their son Charlie....

[Brian 48nav]

First;Surely that's the back of Window Job on Air Deps?

Is that Dave Carney on GMP? Not sure when he left LL but not there when TDM and I started Nov '86. Remember him refereeing some of the London Airways footer matches.

GMC man is spit of Roger Clarke - but he didn't start until '91.

[Talkdownman]

GMC looks like Forster with Steve Barnes GMC ATCA (GRHS).
And, as you say 48Nav, windowjob on Air Deps...
Must dig out the old watch-lists...

Bigears, thanks for posting those...clearly making us old Meldrews happy...

[HEATHROW DIRECTOR]

Who is the lady on Air? Nicky?

[DC10RealMan]

I was talking to Stu Barnes (Steve's dad) recently at a retired staff "do" and was talking about Steve's enthusiasm for football which was not matched by his skill.

He was an all round "good egg" and I for one miss him.

[Brian 48nav]

Bren, IIRC Nicky started in late '87, I believe she was destined for City when it opened and was holding with us but managed to persuade 'the powers that be' to give her a go at LL - on E Watch initially?

Called in to see her in Verwood a while back (she was living in the next road to my uncle), just before she moved to the sea front at Barton on Sea. I keep looking out for her when visiting Bob Hillyer - he lives about 500yds away - but no sightings.

Tony

Did Steve die as a result of diabetes? I remember him as a very nice guy. RIP.

[DC10RealMan]

Brian.

Unfortunately yes, about ten years ago when he was based at Manchester and a few weeks before he was due to get married.

Tony F

[elandel]

Talking of the ladder......
One day in the eighties the Duchess of York visited after parking a helocopter on Block 85. A rather stern looking policeman was stationed at the bottom of the stairs. The Duchess had rather a short skirt on and Roger Darling was happy to let her go first. He had to be told to 'avert his eyes'
to maintain royal protocol. Can't remember what Rogers reply was....
Happy Days.

[HEATHROW DIRECTOR]

Brian. Nicky was at Heathrow 1987-99. She came to Ruth's funeral, although I did not see her. She wrote to me later but did not give her address so i don't know where she is now.

Tony. Yes. Steve was a truly nice guy and I was devastated to hear of his passing. Had many, many fun times with him.

[Minesthechevy]

Elandel - I remember that there were about 14-too-many assorted bodyguards, NATS dignitaries and other hangers-on for that poor lift.

[dash6]

Remember HM the Queen Mum arriving in the VCR on the equipment hoist..?

[windowjob]

Blimey, I wish I still had that much hair!

Must have been on a slip as I was on B Watch (mostly) with the aforementioned Colonel and Captain, God bless 'em.

[Brian 48nav]

Blimey, Malc you must have stood too close to the old 155 bus (from down my way at South Wimbledon) and had your roots shaken loose. Who was the lucky lady?

25 years later this year since John Smeath left us, RIP mate - didn't know 'The Colonel', Harry something?? Think he was in H&I same time as me.

BW

[windowjob]

Harry Richardson was The Colonel.
Deputy to Les West on B watch then as you say went to inspectorate or something.
Retired and went to the US and became a part time coastguard!

I used to travel with the Captain, my missus used to work with his wife Diana and we're still in touch, saw her a couple of years ago in Truro where they both came from.
He used to fly Canberras and one of the nicest blokes you could meet.

[AyrTC]

Harry Richardson was at Kirkwall and he was always was very polite when you passed him a clearance from Scottish, he always ended the phone call " I will call you as soon as its airborne". He must have said it thousands of times. I finally got to meet him at Kirkwall in the early eighties at the BEA/BA/ Highland Division Viscount retirement shindig. :)

[HEATHROW DIRECTOR]

Last I heard of Harry was he was living in the USA but I don't know if he is still with us. Before I left the Tower in 1993, Harry visited us. He was wearing the most incredible pair of cowboy boots you have ever seen. A few stories:

1. Harry had a Wurlitzer organ. Just how competent he was with it I don't know. He didn't bring it to work.

2. Ernie Abery came in one day to take over from Harry. Like most of us, Harry seemed a bit nervous of Ernie so to make small talk he said: "I see QPR has gone down". Ernie walked purposefully across the room and studied the met TV!

3. Cessna 310 had a gear problem and did a fly-by for us to look. As usual the Sup (Harry) called to the Air Man that he would tell the AFS when the twitcher was #1. Problem is, nobody told Harry the twitcher was on a fly-by. The AFS had a great time chasing it down 10L.....

4. Harry's log entries were legendary. For something concerning an outbound he would always put the FPLN details. So.... "Bealine XXX "EGLL, Amber 1, Green 3, Blue 4, White 19 to Roma, delayed five minutes for catering".

Amazing that he flew Canberras but as M said, he was a really nice bloke.

Now, who has any stories about JK...

[Minesthechevy]

JK. Ah, yes, JK.:ok:

'I will be late for the afternoon duty tomorrow, I have to meet the Dutch Ambassador about financing a self-propelled barge'

'Anyone want to drive a Beemer for a few days, I'm holding it in case the owner doesn't pay me what he lost on cards the other night'.

Please could someone give chapter and verse about the 'Airline XX, do you have the traffic in sight?' transmission? I remember it was a JK classic, but cannot for the life of me remember the details......

And the urban legend - well, I'm assuming it was UG, it seemed a tad extreme even for JK - about two large gentlemen who turned up at the CTB one night asking to see 'Da Supervisor' because they felt they had a prior call on JKs presence, and he was scheduled for a night duty.

As a raw newbie to the CTB, I wondered how many more like him there could be. I don't know if I should say y'all were like that or he was a one-off, after 21 years there I was still undecided.;)

[chevvron]

When I first met JK at LATCC, he immediately impressed me a being the popular image of a spiv. He used to regale us with stories of his mortgages, his au-pairs etc in the canteen during breaks.
I heard when he returned to Heathrow, he started re-training in GMC and managed to turn a 747 up a dead end, and it took ages to get a tug to push/tow it out!

[Talkdownman]

JK holds the record for the most aircraft cleared for take-off at once...

[HEATHROW DIRECTOR]

That's right. I've transferred aircraft to JK as they left the cul-de-sac and he'd say.. "Do you see the BOAC 707 ahead", "Affirm", "Roger, that traffic will be turning left after take-off, you're cleared for take-off....." And the pilots lapped it up!!

[HEATHROW DIRECTOR]

Dunno about JK's Beemer..... remember Cowboy's orange Rolls Royce?

Oh yes... JK versus Chief Officer MY in the tower.. MY became exasperated with Jake over something and shouted "You come to work in an ostentatious car.." Jake said: "Excuse me; it's not an Austin, it's a Jaguar".

[Brian 48nav]

I may have put this story on Prune before.... but never mind. A few of us are sitting in the rest room at LL and in he walks dressed up in a 3 piece suit and very smart overcoat.

'What brings you here, JK' we say - he now being at City.

'I've got an appointment at CATO' says he.

'Oh, you after a posting to a desk then?'

'No, I've got a disciplinary interview'

We of course are all ears.

'I was temporary SATCO while the real one was ill and did a favour for one of the airlines, who promised me two free tickets. By the time they arrived a new boss had been installed and as the tickets had been addressed to his office he opened the letter and found them. So I'm on a charge of granting favours and accepting reward!'.

He didn't seem too worried as he left with our best wishes ringing in his ears.

Later we hear that he had come out of the hearing 'smelling of roses' as his solicitor threatened to report the new chief officer for the very very serious offence, against the Post Office Act of xxxx, of opening mail addressed to someone else as the letter containing the 'gift' had been clearly addressed to Mr J K, SATCO.:O

[HEATHROW DIRECTOR]

And on Derby Day he was a D2 spinner. When B Watch arrived he told Harry he wasn't too well and was going off sick....... complete with binoculars over his shoulder!! What a character..

[HEATHROW DIRECTOR]

The gentleman who someone's friends wanted to see was BW, who went to Gatwick and is no longer with us.

[HEATHROW DIRECTOR]

The 16th Heathrow Nostalgia Evening will be held at the Lasham Gliding Club on Friday 15th February 2013. Doors open at 1700 and the Gliding Club Café will remain open serving simple but adequate hot meals until 1830.

The bar will open around 1800.

Programme starts at 1900.

Entry fee (payable on the evening) is £4.

For further information please email: [email protected]

[A310bcal]

The tower is coming down.....never made it up to the top, but visited the canteen on the ground floor many a time !!!

On a different topic, I wonder if any contributors here ever flew out of White Waltham in an old Apache for "air experience" in the early '70's ???:)

[Talkdownman]

I wonder if any contributors here ever flew out of White Waltham in an old Apache for "air experience" in the early '70's

After my time...

[HEATHROW DIRECTOR]

A310bcal... ground floor canteen, otherwise known as the Greasy Spoon. Remember the delightful Ivy?

[chevvron]

A310bcal:
My ATCO Cadet Course (No 23) did our route flying in it(1974; G-ASMN?); Waltham - Birmingham and return on airways, then Waltham - Stansted OCAS and Stansted - Ostend return on airways. The ATCO Cadet did the navigation and RTF whilst the instructor, Frank Brejka, did most of the flying. I say most because he let me pole it from Stansted back to Waltham via overhead my parents house in Chesham!

[A310bcal]

31 May 1974 ? Mr Cl**ke? happy days eh?:)

[qwerty2]

A310bcal...

My memory must be playing tricks but I seem to remember flying in an Aztec down to Bournemouth to pick up duty frees and then on to Bordeaux for lunch.
We were supposed to stop at Jersey on the way back but as we were running late we just went around.
I was sitting down the back as La Rochelle passed below thinking that I was unlikely to do this again and how nice La Rochelle looked.
I guess that was 1973 ; our training was holistic back then.

[A310bcal]

Qwerty2:

Not guilty that time , altho' was around White Waltham at that time.....there was an Aztec based there, G-AZZA so you might well have flown in that, a darn sight better than that battered old Apache I can tell you.
But the favoured run with you young guys from ATC in '74 was down to Bournemouth, over to Jersey, then to Dinard , ( for duty free purposes), thence to Cardiff via Berry Head ( remember being asked where we were going by ATC as we TRIED to pick up and track the BHD NDB on a very "iffy" receiver).
Clear customs and then back down Green 1 to WOD to leave for White Waltham. Not sure who enjoyed it most , me or the pax as it was a great day out for us all!

[windowjob]

As the others, great fun, with a twist. Went White Waltham-Bournemouth-Jersey-Manchester - White Waltham. Only we didn't, got to Jersey and we went to see a colleague in the Twr and the pilot went for a comfort break. Met back at the aircraft and as we were taxying he said "there's a howling Northerly, it will take forever to get to Manch, let's got to Southend instead"
So muggins ends up re-planning as we taxy out.
Get to Southend where the pilot has some mates only they stood round laughing.
Customs decided that we were iffy having not gone to Manch and late change to Southend maybe we were smuggling and took lots of the aircraft apart!

Some time later we got back to White Waltham.

[A310bcal]

windowjob.

:D

[Tigersaw]

WINDOOOOOOOOW!

Something often heard in Tels requiring everyone to drop everything and rush across and have a good stare

[Talkdownman]

On the 6th floor in the old radar room we had covered windows. If there was ever anything of 'interest' outside a similar call would go out 'this is a window job' whereupon the controllers (usually all but the one left 'holding the baby'...) would rush over to the window, pull back the blind, let in loads of light and crowd around the window making suitable derogatory comments and exclamations....great fun...

[windowjob]

And one day we ALL managed to get to the window which was underneath the visitors gallery.

Upon returning to the positions we glanced up to see horrified faces - visitors who'd just looked down at the radar room at "the worlds busiest" to see it totally empty! :eek:

I guess no more "window jobs" once smf came in.

[obwan]

Often wondered where your "callsign" came from.:D

[Lon More]

... ground floor canteen, otherwise known as the Greasy Spoon. Remember the delightful Ivy

Couldn't have been any worse than the one in the old orth Side LATCC . I reckon when they knocked it down they'd have had to take dynamite to the grease build-up behind the cooker.
Then there was Fag-ash Lil; never seen without a fag with at least an inch of ash on it until she coughed and it fell on your food. Happy days.:ugh:

[HEATHROW DIRECTOR]

Recall the venetian blinds in the gallery operated from a panel near the sup's desk? There were switches and push buttons and nobody knew exactly what they did, except that by pushing a button or switching a switch would make one of the blinds open. Favourite trick was to push a button as one was going on a break resulting in the room being flooded in daylight and strings of expletives coming from the controllers!

[Vercingetorix]

HD
I had an email from a controller from Bejing who had seen a picture of the tower with the Blind Controller function and was asking what the "Blind Controller" function was. The function didn't translate as sensible.

Lon More
Jean, the cook in the old North side LATCC was a Diamond who could do a mean steak, eggs and chips. A hark back to when both SATCC and EGLL were places for humans.

:ok:

[HEATHROW DIRECTOR]

"Blind Controller" . Hahaha. It might have been Colin Ward (God Bless him) who walked through the Approach Room with dark glasses and a white stick whilst there were visitors in the gallery!

[Vercingetorix]

HD
Nice one
reminds me of Capt Welford ex BA:ok:

[HEATHROW DIRECTOR]

Ohh indeed!!

[chevvron]

Come in for a night duty (7.45 pm start) at the old LATCC (where Compass Centre now stands) and the lady in the canteen would be busy clearing up, so she usually told us to serve ourselves!
I was there on an afternoon duty one day and asked for steak and chips; she gave me 2 pieces of steak on a whole mountain of chips, charged me 5 bob.*
This was nothing compared to Gypsy Rose who used to do the graveyard shift at West Drayton; Len Vass told me he went down about 2 am and asked for egg and chips; she gave him 3 eggs on a big pile of chips. 'Not much there, that'll be one and six*' she said!

*If you youngsters don't understand pre-decimal money, tough!

[DC10RealMan]

Canteen open at 0200 for the operational staff

Surely some mistake!

[chevvron]

Yes indeed it was! The West Drayton canteen in those days (late 60s/early 70s) was open 24/7; nothing like a good fryup or just a few slices of hot buttered toast in the early hours!
Barton Hall (Preston ATCC for the uninitiated) in the same era you were lucky to get a cheese sandwich made by the daytime staff and sold from the bar, but only until last orders.

[Lon More]

IIRC the Drayton canteen was closed for an hour for "cleaning".

Hot buttered toast ? I remember there being a new kitchen assistant, straight off the boat, being shown how to do it. Toast the bread, butter it, put it on a plate. However as nobody had ordered it, at 0300, it went straight into the bin. Come 0700, and the Morning shift drifting in, things htted up but no toast was forthcoming. A peek in the kitchen revealed it, toasted, buttered, on the plate, into the bin .....

The Sabena restaurant at EBBR was a revelation. on the 7th floor of the terminal building, great view of the apron and runways., watching the AF and SN crews enjoying their meals with a good bottle of wine.

[HEATHROW DIRECTOR]

There were three "restaurants" at London Tower when I started - two on the ground floor separated by simple partitions. One side for aircrew and highly-paid ATCOs and the other side for "manual workers". Upstairs (1st floor) was a waitress service restaurant where the 3rd floor people used to eat. We used it for going-away parties too - Alastair McLean, Bill Stretton and other musicians provided entertainment. When I left Heathrow Tower in 1993 all that lot had morphed into a machine providing Mars bars and crisps!

[NBanker]

My memory must be playing tricks but I seem to remember flying in an Aztec down to Bournemouth to pick up duty frees and then on to Bordeaux for lunch.

I remember doing the same trip in (I think) the August of 1973 but in a Navajo. We were late getting back to White Waltham and, after holding at Woodley for a thunderstorm to pass over the field, we landed in the dark by the light of the members' car headlights lined up along the runway edge!
NB

[Talkdownman]

IIRC the Drayton canteen was closed for an hour for "cleaning".0100-0200. An old bloke called Charlie would chuck us out...

One of the toast butterers became an ATCO...

A mate who was a Trident jock occasionally used to ask me over to join him for lunch in the BEA canteen in QB whilst he was on airport standby. So I did. Linen tablecloths and silver service...us air traffickers were normally used to legging it over 6 lanes of frenetic traffic to spend our LVs at Harry Ramsden's...the challenge was not to open the box until we got back to the rest room...or back on GMC...

[Lon More]

You got Luncheon Vouchers? Must have been after my time. I remember getting meal tickets for a while, then on my birthday getting a pay rise and losing the vouchers. After paying more tax and the extra cost of meals i was about a quid a week worse off.

[chevvron]

Don't remember WD canteen actually closing for cleaning, as far as I recall they just cleaned round us if we were in there, usually max of about 6 at a time. I was there Mar '69 to Sep '71.
I too used the QB restaurant courtesy of my wife at the time. She was secretary to the BEA Training Manager Tridents/737s (c1978) and worked on the same floor a matter of 50 yards away, and would 'borrow' a colleagues pass to get me in.

[A310bcal]

Heathrow Director:

Your memory of the Greasy Spoon is very good!!! I was a BEA General Apprentice back in '64-'67, doing most of the menial jobs they could think up for us and it was but a short walk from Queens Building, Terminal 1 or 1A across to the Tower for some sustenance. I too remember the divided area but think I managed to stay in the "posh " side where the BEA ground staff used to eat....more pretty faces there too!!
Despite working in BEA Flt Ops in Queens Building the Restaurant there was definitely out of the league of a lowly Apprentice, especially as we were getting paid about £5 a week !!
Very sad to see one of Heathrows landmarks being so harshly treated, but I guess thats progress.....

[HEATHROW DIRECTOR]

A310bcal... At least you got into the posh area! In the "other" area was the lovely Ivy serving. Even the labourers had to put their fingers in their ears when she started!

It is a shame to see the old place go. In fact, it's almost gone as a recent picture shows (tnx Pete Bish):

http://i1286.photobucket.com/albums/a610/brendan_mccartney/IMG_3990_zps59196854.jpg

[Andy Mayes]

What a sad picture!

Shame my unit couldn't have got their hands on the VCR to replace our current one which has more holes than the Costa Concordia.

Which floor housed the radar room?

[Loki]

Of course there was the lovely "Maureen" at WD in later days, well known for her customer skills. "Evening Maureen" would be answered with "And I don't want none of your lip neither!" Phrases like "Oi! Cloth ears, don't you want your dinner?" will remain with me for ever.

[HEATHROW DIRECTOR]

Andy. In recent times the approach room was on the ground floor. However, originally it was on the 6th floor.

[Talkdownman]

In recent times the approach room was on the ground floor
Yup, opened in 1989 at huge expense, vacated by Heathrow Approach in Oct '93...

[Tigersaw]

Where was CACC, was it 4th floor?
I remember going to see the new 20Mb hard disk drives, thing like a washing machine.

[HEATHROW DIRECTOR]

Not sure.... Telemove was on 5th so CACC must have been further down.

[ex-EGLL]

OK, severe memory failure could be setting in. When did the canteen(s) in the CTB close, I got there in '78 and don't remember them. We always went to one of the BAA staff canteens in the terminal buildings

Regards from sunny South Alabama

[NWSRG]

What's going into the space left behind It's a pity that the old tower could not have been preserved for posterity, and put to alternative use. Would it not have made a good conference facility? Put a nice restaurant in the upper levels?

[Lon More]

a pity that the old tower could not have been preserved for posterity,

£££££££££££££²

Whebn the new tower was built at EHBK the old VCR was retained and put atop the terminal as a museum. Never seen it used and I don't think there's any access to it. Someones probably using it to grow weed

[Vercingetorix]

Lon
Luncheon vouchers were around in the mid to late 70s. I used to exchange mine in my local 7/11 equivalent. :uhoh:

[ZOOKER]

Look at what is being taken apart.
And then look at the heap of sh*te with the corrugated-roof in the distance.
Let's just demolish St. Pauls, Blackpool Tower, The Palace Of Westminster, Edinburgh Castle. I mean, what thee f*ck do we need all this history for? Stonehenge is an ideal location for 300 executive-style detached 'homes'. And as for The Ring Of Brodgar........

[Lon More]

Luncheon vouchers were around in the mid to late 70s.

Thanks, I'd long departed for Europe by then.

[chevvron]

LVs are still around if you work at a unit without canteen facilites.

[terrain safe]

Chevvon: not for much longer :{

[HEATHROW DIRECTOR]

Those night duties in the tower could be exhausting....

http://i1286.photobucket.com/albums/a610/brendan_mccartney/HeathrowTower4_zps38babe92.jpg

[Talkdownman]

HD? On a night duty? Surely not...

[HEATHROW DIRECTOR]

Well, there were some interesting things to look at... like the replacement strip transporter....

http://i1286.photobucket.com/albums/a610/brendan_mccartney/HeathrowTower3_zpsb2a730d7.jpg

[Talkdownman]

Ah, TLWM, say no more...

[eastern wiseguy]

Terrain Safe

Chevvon: not for much longer


What have you heard?

[terrain safe]

Heard a rumour that they will be included into basic pay so no more LVs. Mrs TS so enjoys using them in the local supermarket.

[eastern wiseguy]

Not a bad idea...fed up handing them over like "free dinner tickets".....or explaining for the millionth time that You DO take them...anyway back to Hounslow :)

[Brian 48nav]

Was there really two of you on a night duty HD ? Wasn't Wendy lovely;)

[HEATHROW DIRECTOR]

Only until it bandboxed, Brian, then it was me on my lonesome.

[windowjob]

Plus a lighting op, usually snoring - sorry instantly alert!:ok:

[mad_jock]

Can one of you tell us interested folk what all the bits an bobs are on the desk?

[windowjob]

Anemometer (2 square displays), DFTI (distance from touchdown indicator, 2 round display at the top usually one centred to monitor deps and one offset to show the tfc on final), RVR display, Grids of small rectangular displays one for each runway, between them is the loudspeaker for when you take your headset off, phones R/T along the bottom and in the middle the large screen was the SMR, surface radar for poor vis. If I remember correctly the TV screen at the side was a slot monitor.
Not forgetting the Mk2, and inferior, data transfer system - metal chute to pass the strips from GMC to Air.

[Talkdownman]

Thanks, windowjob, I read jock's post without specs as 'bit with boobs'...

[mad_jock]

So was the desk ever christened?

[Gonzo]

Which desk? :}

[Spitoon]

Be careful now.....you don't want to upset boy George!

[HEATHROW DIRECTOR]

Thanks Windowjob - I often wondered what they all were.

[brianj]

All this talk of the Tower going..... the beginning of the end was when Hatton Cross hostel went.
Couldn't leave a pie in the oven without watching or some so and so would half inch it!
Tom O'Connor would come in abut 2 am and awaken everyone in the dorm by putting the lights on and playing an LP!

And one new ATCA lasted about 4 hours after being dropped off one Sunday before getting Mummy to pick him up as he was scared. Never did start on Monday morning.


Back to the Tower, remember Dave Lister in '72 blocking the Lansom tube to QB after I told him we regularly put a duster down it to clean the inside.

And Steve the STPO who did a runner one night- was found in the bar playing the piano amongst the dreg glasses.

[HEATHROW DIRECTOR]

Bizarre bloke Tom.... I believe he ended up as an airline Captain.

[brianj]

First Choice/TOM B767 I think.

[Loki]

I think I stuck it out for a fortnight at Hatton Cross before making alternative arrangements. Those Caravelles were noisy!

Had my only aircraft accident with Tom at Booker in an Airtourer......as we were taxying out to return to Denham, the main undercarriage broke/collapsed. Even today I reflect on the fact that his landing at Booker was velvet smooth and what might have happened had it been at all "firm"

[Loki]

I think it was Tom who introduced me to the tunnel that ran under the central area, between Queen's Building and the Tower (elsewhere too, I believe). Apart from other uses, it served as a conduit for the Lamson Tube system; one could hear the containers hurtling along in the pipes. It was a somewhat eerie way to get into the tower building.

[None of the above]

Loki...

I think it was Tom who introduced me to the tunnel that ran under the central area, between Queen's Building and the Tower (elsewhere too, I believe). Apart from other uses, it served as a conduit for the Lamson Tube system; one could hear the containers hurtling along in the pipes. It was a somewhat eerie way to get into the tower building. I only have a vague recollection of the existence of the tunnel but I do have clear memories of the two bods who were i/c the Lamson Tube system.
They were known as Tweedle Dum and Tweedle Dee and hated one another like poison.

[Loki]

Remember them well....a right pair of whingers.....the whole system could be brought to a standstill by launching a pair of tubes from Flight Clearance with less than 30 seconds separation, IIRC.

[None of the above]

...launching a pair of tubes from Flight Clearance with less than 30 seconds separation, IIRCIt was permissible if you stated 'Caution, turbulent wake'.:ok:

[dash6]

A search and rescue smoke canister worked quite well too.Unadressed tubes went direct to Tels.:} (All allegedly!)

[Reverserbucket]

A few more recent ones of the cab....

http://i1000.photobucket.com/albums/af127/reverserbucket/IMG_2473.jpg

http://i1000.photobucket.com/albums/af127/reverserbucket/IMG_2472.jpg

http://i1000.photobucket.com/albums/af127/reverserbucket/IMG_2469.jpg

http://i1000.photobucket.com/albums/af127/reverserbucket/IMG_2461.jpg

http://i1000.photobucket.com/albums/af127/reverserbucket/IMG_2460.jpg

http://i1000.photobucket.com/albums/af127/reverserbucket/IMG_2450.jpg

[Brian 48nav]

Let's get this 'Tedious' threads back where it belongs!:):)

[Andy Mayes]

Sad that I want to know this but can someone explain the VCR seating arrangements in the above photos please?:O

[Gonzo]

Top VCR photo.... The two chairs by the railing facing the camera are GMC1 on left, and GMC2 on the right. The desk where if occupied the people would be sitting facing the bottom left corner of the photo is the Westerly Air desk, so Arrivals would be closest to the camera, and Departures nearer the GMC desk. Mirrored on the Easterly Air desk opposite, so Arrivals on the right and Departures on the left. Off to the left out of frame and down in the corner is Ground Movement Planner, commonly called 'the pit' as it was tucked way out of sight, with the GMC Assistant. The GMP position in the new tower is still called 'the pit'.

2nd VCR photo is the view from Westerly Air desk, so the camera is positioned between the Arrivals and Depaeture controllers. The red chairs the other side of the desk are at the GMP Assistant position.

3rd VCR photo is of the GMC2 desk, and just past that on the left in the VCR Supervisor's desk.

[Andy Mayes]

Thanks Gonzo.

[mad_jock]

Someone had bad dandruff on the westerly air desk.

[YouSaidBolt]

I dremnt of working their........... Doesn't the new place have the same positions???

[Mooncrest]

Does Heathrow (or any of the London airports) still have an approach radar room on site, to act as a back-up in the event of an equipment failure at Swanwick ? If so, are there appropriately trained staff about to provide a radar service, given that the London airports are basically tower-only these days ?

I know Heathrow used to have Approach on the ground floor of the now deceased tower and that was supposedly retained after the move to LATCC.

[Talkdownman]

Does Heathrow (or any of the London airports) still have an approach radar room.....to act as a back-up in the event of an equipment failure at Swanwick ? If so, are there appropriately trained staff about to provide a radar service, given that the London airports are basically tower-only these days ?
Such 'nats operational contingency' information might be restricted.

[surfingatco]

Just caught up with this thread - best 12 years of my ATC "career" spent in that building - and I've got my brick! (Thanks MD & MC). I'm looking forward to AC's stories on friday evening at Lasham - I think the rule will be, what goes on at Lasham, stays at Lasham ;o)
The picture below was taken during the previously mentioned visit of the Duchess of York with Lord Boyd-Carpenter and Keith Williams. It's me on easterly Air Arrivals looking far too serious - mind you I was on D Watch ;o).
Btw, I recognise the ATSA in the background but can't remember his name? I think he was/is a West Ham fan.

http://www.mikeinglis.co.uk/images/Fergie_LL_Tower1.jpg

Caption competition anyone?
See some of you on Friday!

[Spitoon]

Lord Boyd-Carpenter? Looks an awful lot like John King.

But there's no question the star of the shot is the man with the electric hat!

[surfingatco]

Oops! Not the first miss ident in my long career - Lord King of BA it is!

[Minesthechevy]

surfingatco - or should I say Silver Surfer ATCO ?:rolleyes:

Yes, that's Lord King, and the ATSA was Mark but I forget his surname.

[HEATHROW DIRECTOR]

......Granata?

[161R]

......... Barber?

[Brian 48nav]

Mark Hooper - didn't he used to help Hobbsie with UKATTS stuff?

[Heathrow Cargo]

I worked in the Control Tower Bar, aka Dodge, on the ground floor from about 1980 - 1983 when it closed.

Many hours of fun and stories never to be told ;). Curtains pulled at closing time punters left by the front door and those in the know re-entered around the back, Happy Days!

The bar was a staff bar that had a public license, the guys who ran it also ran the Queen's Building bar.

[ZOOKER]

"Control Tower Bar"?
Holy Moly!
A tradition methinks NATS should re-instate.

Allegedly, the new CTB, (control tower building), at EGCC, will not have a bar, but there will be a branch 'Greggs' nearby.

[ZOOKER]

surfingatco,
interesting photograph.
Note how John Kings' fingers are clasped in the same fashion as those of the Duchess Of York.

[jh5speed]

I also had the pleasure of visiting in 1984 as part of my prep for the ATCO board interview (I didn't succeed - became an engineer instead). As I recall it was a 'give us a call when you are outside on the doorstep' sort of arrangement.

I seem to remember being told at the time (my memory prompted by the pictures above) that there had to be a CCTV to cover the view of the intersection obstructed by that radar head. How did that come about - did no-one think of sightlines when they were planning the radar installation - was it really a problem?

[HEATHROW DIRECTOR]

There was no CCTV showing the intersection abeam the radar head when I was there (1972-1993). In fact, we asked many times for CCTV to enable us to see the cargo cul-de-sacs but had no joy. Meanwhile, the Police had CCTV all over the place, including cameras on the tower, to watch road traffic.

[jh5speed]

Thanks HD - thinking about this, I must have wrongly linked a passing comment about the not-so-ideal placing of the Heathrow radar, and a CCTV (again early 80's) at East Midlands tower to cover a holding point (?) due to a new/extended cargo building (?)

[Minesthechevy]

I seem to recall that the 'buried' Charlie stands (C14, C16) were at one point to be kitted out with CCTV for our benefit but the baggage handlers union objected.

Now, I cannot think of a single reason why a baggage handler would feel threatened by CCTV whilst going about his daily routine, but maybe others could?:E

[Burnie5204]

Jh5c

It was EMA that used to need CCTV to see the RW27 holding points W1/2 and A1/2 because where the old ATC VCR was meant that these were blocked from sight by a combination of the terminal and the RFFS station.

Was one of a whole number of reasons (not least of which was how the new west pier of T1 would have blocked the view to M, H and G runway holding points) why they got the new tower and combined APP/AGL/ATE building whilst the old VCR and RADAR rooms were still serviceable (And are still in 24/7 use by Apron control and the Ops crews)

[Lukeafb1]

For LAS1997,

This may have been posted already, but the VCR has been removed intact (alright, in pieces) in the last few weeks and will be displayed at the museum at RAF Cosford.

[Uplinker]

I visited in about 2003, while waiting to go to work. Rang the doorbell and asked if there was any chance of a quick visit. There was and I want to thank all concerned, but don't know any names, sorry. It was early afternoon and I think I watched a Concorde land amongst others. I was very impressed by the professionalism of all the controllers, alongside the 'Heath Robinson' style gizmo's - a combination which is so quintessentially British!

I also flew in and out of EGLL many times, and was very appreciative of all the controller's skills, which were and are the best in the world, in my opinion.

(I was the tw@t in pilot's uniform).


U

[B Fraser]

I managed a visit too as member of a flying club. Very British indeed ! I thinks one of my party asked about modernising the system and was politely told that if a pen broke then you just used another one.

The room was running just about flat out but the air of coolness and quiet professionalism was astonishing. It made you proud to be a Brit :ok:

[Talkdownman]

Coloured felt-tip pens, some pieces of paper, binoculars, a clock, a wireless set, a telephone and a comfy chair...what more would one need...

[Atcham Tower]

Er, a mug of tea?

[On the beach]

and a Lamson Tube, for entertainment.

[Brian 48nav]

Marie, Suzy,Marilyn, Jules,Sue etc...'dream,dream,dream' (remember the Everly Brothers?):O

[Minesthechevy]

Brian, you're just an old letch....... :hmm:

[windowjob]

What more could you want?

"Trolley" :)

[Jester Wester]

I've just hand a very nostalgic time reading all these posts and looking at the photos. Does anyone know if there was ever a digital copy made of the video "In safe Hands"?.
I know it was shown at CATC for many years, I think even after APC moved to LATCC because the radar procedures didn't really change.

[TOPPROP]

Does anyone know if there was ever a digital copy made of the video "In safe Hands"?.
I know it was shown at CATC for many years, I think even after APC moved to LATCC because the radar procedures didn't really change.

Would that be the video produced by a certain EGLL ATCO, AD? Soundtrack 'PURE' by the Lightning Seeds?

I'd love to see the above video again, in fact I'd pay money to watch this again.

Better still, how about youtube?

[Jester Wester]

No, I remember that one as well, but the one that I am referring to was made in the late eighties (I think), long before AD arrived on the scene.

Several of the "stars" of this video climbed the managerial ladder and probably getting pretty close to retirement.

[Jester Wester]

TopProp
Is this the AD one you were referring to? If so free of charge!!!

Heathrow Airport- London - YouTube

[TOPPROP]

No, the film to which I refer was produced, directed and edited by AD. A short video about being an ATCO at EGLL, soundtrack PURE by THE LIGHTNING SEEDS. Not broadcast on on network TV, but shown at the CATC when AD came to visit.

[DaveReidUK]

Heathrow Airport- London - YouTube

That's an old video, so I'm sure it has been remarked on before, but I still love the part at around 2:55 showing simultaneous easterly landings and westerly takeoffs. :O

[windowjob]

What? you mean they no longer do opposite direction calibrations during the day?
Sporting wasn't the word.:ok:

[HEATHROW DIRECTOR]

Great fun, eh, M?

[Talkdownman]

They now need 15 mile gaps for runway inspections too...no sport in that!

[Gonzo]

There is when Checker needs to do an on/off to check FOD/light fitting etc and nobody knows how to do it! :eek::E

[HEATHROW DIRECTOR]

You'll be telling us next you don't have BBQs on the roof A!

[Gonzo]

Not after the last one which nearly burned a hole through the roof!:oh:

[JustaFew]

Due to Brendan's extra large sausage!

[windowjob]

Or the fire risk from his 3ft long cardboard bow tie!

[N90-EWR]

"busiest international airspace in the world"??? :hmm:

[DaveReidUK]

"busiest international airspace in the world"???It's a rather vaguely worded claim, but I would suspect that in terms of the numbers of international aircraft movements (departures, arrivals and overflights) the airspace above Heathrow (or rather above SE England in general) is among the busiest in the world (around 5000 flights per day, I believe).

[N90-EWR]

I wonder what the numbers are for a similar size sample of airspace over the NY area. :8

[Vercingetorix]

N90-EWR

Last time I was in a meeting with an ex New York TRACON manager the figure he gave for their total movements was about twice that of the London TMA but to balance it out they had about twice as (or more) many controllers.
So, in effect, same same.

:ok:

[N90-EWR]

Not sure its in effect the same without taking at look at what you do over there. I don't doubt that you're busy, but I'm sure we're comparing apples and oranges.

Our airspace is divided into 5 areas. EWR, LGA, JFK, ISP, and Liberty. But not all areas are the same. The ISP area is a joke, as they never get any significant traffic. Liberty area does get some volume, but its pretty much all departure traffic at 10000 and above, so complexity is very low on that sector. Most of the heavy lifting is done by the first 3 areas I mentioned. EWR is both the busiest, and more complex of the areas here.

Not unusual to be working anywhere from 12 to 20 arrivals on our ARD/4FNL (KEWR), or MUGZY (KTEB, KMMU, CDW) sectors.

Is the approach control over there located at or near the tower? I'm curious about your operation to the point that I may take a trip over to London just to visit the facility (assuming you guys would allow a NY controller to take a tour). I could arrange for a similar tour of the NY TRACON to any controllers from your side of the pond.

cheers! :ok:

[DaveReidUK]

Is the approach control over there located at or near the tower?

No, Terminal Control for Heathrow is located about 50 miles away, at Swanwick in Hampshire.

[Andy Mayes]

No, Terminal Control for Heathrow is located about 50 miles away, at Swanwick in Hampshire.
Along with the approach sectors of Gatwick, Luton, Stansted, London City and Northolt.

[Talkdownman]

More like 72 miles...

[DaveReidUK]

More like 72 miles... Heathrow (old tower VCR): N 51 28 14 W 000 27 11

Swanwick: N 50 53 12 W 001 17 10

I make that 47.0 nm (54.1 sm), 222.1° true

The crow you consulted must have been flying the long way round - I hope he doesn't calculate your distance to run callouts. :O

[HEATHROW DIRECTOR]

Memory Map says 54 miles...... but does it matter?

[chevvron]

If it's more than 10 miles it's too far to commute.
(Thinks: You never worked there HD, how would you know?)

[DaveReidUK]

but does it matter? No, not to you or me, but it probably would to our NY TRACON friend when stumping up for the taxi fare from LHR. :O

I'm curious about your operation to the point that I may take a trip over to London just to visit the facility

[Talkdownman]

Neither does it matter to me any more. I've never worked there either, for I declined nats' generous and well-considered 'at my expense' posting. Instead of 33 sm to Heathrow it is 43 sm in the opposite direction according to Google Maps fastest route....so I make that approximately 76 sm in the cab. A cab driver might even stretch that a bit for USD...