naming and shaming - cui bono?

[deptrai]

US media report that an American Eagle pilot has been suspended after failing a blood alcohol test. Full name, age, pictures, nationality...What's the point?

Is shame the elephant in the newsroom?

When will news media transition from a "blame culture" to a "learning culture"?

[/rant over]

[deptrai]

You are right. I was just wondering how the media would know his name...unless someone told them?

[Lone_Ranger]

Perhaps it makes things safer in the long run? ...........shirley its now less likely he will be hired by another company?

[alfaman]

its now less likely he will be hired by another company? :ugh: point being, there are processes to determine that, & trial by press is no substitute. Suspension does not mean guilty, it means investigate to determine guilt. Suppose there's a perfectly innocent explanation? Too late, the individual's only a google away from a ruined reputation. It wouldn't be the first time the press has got hold of the wrong persons details, either, & an apology buried on page 99 doesn't fix it.

[Lone_Ranger]

He failed an alcohol test, he smelled of alcohol, he should'nt have presented himself for work in that condition.
I would'nt want to fly with him.
What the lawyers get up to afterwards is of little interest to me

P.S. re: media versus Judicial system ...the data would be hard to collate, but imho, Its extremely likely the courts in America have ruined more innocent lives than the media ever has....or would you disagree?

[Airbubba]

You are right. I was just wondering how the media would know his name...unless someone told them?

Arrest records (including mugshots) are public in the U.S. in most cases. The fact that the alleged perp made it to the cockpit probably is the result of the time it takes to find someone to make a decision to breath test and the fact that if the pilot is stopped short of the plane, he or she will inevitably claim they were reporting sick and had no intent of operating the flight.

In recent years I've seem some of these cases handled very quietly with charges dropped and records sealed pending successful treatment of the drinking problem.

In the UK, American pilots have often been given suspended sentences or acquittals since hard time might negatively impact their flying career, e.g.:

Drunk United Airlines pilot E***** V******* W********* avoids jail sentence - NYPOST.com (http://www.nypost.com/p/news/national/drunk_pilot_avoids_jail_sentence_bh98Vl7zILRc2wCWFBFQKM)

Heathrow pilot was caught drunk at 9am about to fly to America | Mail Online (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1163609/Heathrow-pilot-caught-drunk-9am-fly-America-spared-jail.html)

Cleared: The pilot who claimed he got drunk in his sleep | Mail Online (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-443872/Cleared-The-pilot-claimed-got-drunk-sleep.html)

In the third link above the accused claims that he showed up at the airport in full uniform and passed though security to report sick:

At his three-day trial, he denied he had been intending to board the plane.

He told the jury: "I was drunk. I realised I wasn't going to work. I assumed I had lost my job. I figured the best thing to do was to tell Harvey."

Attempting to explain why a bottle of whisky he had bought the day before was now two-thirds full, he said the drink had disappeared overnight, adding that "strange things" sometimes happened in his sleep.

Even in the UK, it seems that the legal consequences are recently starting to increase:

Drunk pilot G***** L* P***** who didn't know where he was flying to jailed for 6 months | Mail Online (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1349952/Drunk-pilot-George-La-Perle-didnt-know-flying-jailed-6-months.html#ixzz1C3ym2Nvh)

[BobnSpike]

If I were ever to be so unfortunate as to find myself on trial, I would request that my attorney ask all potential jurors whether they had ever posted on PPRuNe. Any that answered "yes" would be immediately dismissed.

[Huck]

If I were his age and still flying for Eagle I'd be drunk every day....

[VFD]

If I were his age and still flying for Eagle I'd be drunk every day....

Easy now Huck there were are quite a few "senior" pilots at MQ that ended up there do to circumstances from a shrinking industry in years past that were waiting on a "first to interview" at AA or build turbine hours for elsewhere.

But, I will take the humor side as well.

[Huck]

Yeah I meant no harm. I did my purgatory season at ASA.....

Eagle was actually a decent career airline, or it used to be anyway.

[Lemain]

Would be very easy for someone with a motive to splash/spray smelly booze over crew....and what, exactly, is 'drunk'? Not supporting drink-flying, driving or operating machines but allegations should be treated as a clean sheet to avoid the risk of some kind of set-up by those who wish the individual ill. Trial by media or forum is not acceptable.

[Mac the Knife]

"In recent years I've seem some of these cases handled very quietly with charges dropped and records sealed pending successful treatment of the drinking problem."

As it should be! A large proportion of cases so handled end up with an expensively trained professional rehabilitated and back at work in 6-12 months.

A life saved, a family saved and a pilot back on the flight deck where he should be.

[Lemain]

As it should be! A large proportion of cases so handled end up with an expensively trained professional rehabilitated and back at work in 6-12 months.

A life saved, a family saved and a pilot back on the flight deck where he should be.Hmmm.... not usually if the problem is long-standing. If someone has just been 'silly' then yes, slapped-wrist, and that doesn't need weeks, let alone 6/12 months. If someone needs 6/12 months it's not safe for them to be ATPL. Sorry, sad, but true - they should find some non-flying role to make use of their interest, training and experience, not the flight deck. :( Not being argumentative but just honest and realistic.

[Huck]

Usually the 6 to 12 months is to convince the FAA doctor you're under control.

[LeadSled]

"In recent years I've seem some of these cases handled very quietly with charges dropped and records sealed pending successful treatment of the drinking problem."

As it should be! A large proportion of cases so handled end up with an expensively trained professional rehabilitated and back at work in 6-12 months.

A life saved, a family saved and a pilot back on the flight deck where he should be.

Mac,
Exactly, alcoholism is a disease, and it is a treatable disease, contrary to what some posters seem to believe.

There are many airlines, along with many industrial companies, that have excellent policies and programs to treat the problem.

The airline I worked for was a pioneer in the field, the company program of confidential treatment and rehabilitation applied to all employees, pilots were not discriminated against, although they obviously could not fly while on the program. As I recall, it commenced in its original form in the 1970's. It has been much developed since, but the basic policy has never changed, it is a disease that, if not treated, effectively costs a normal life.

Overall, in a company with a payroll in the order of 35,000, the success rate was very high, particularly for pilots.

[Temp Spike]

I suppose we need to have a trial every time a pilot is removed from duty for cause that may be damaging to the pilot‘s career? Don’t think so. The pilot has recourse through the civil courts IF he/she was removed in error or reputation damaged unjustly.

Maybe we need a trial every time the media reports the news that may damage somebody’s reputation? Don’t think so. Again, you have the civil courts for recourse.

It’s interesting though, because the pilot in question had just finished his preflight.

[captjns]

There are aviation authorities that have mandated procedures inplace to prevent a pilot from entering the cockpit while under theinfluence. During the signing process aBAC is administered. While a positivemay not save the individual’s job, it does, however prevent an arrest leadingto possible prosecution, and of course unnecessary publicity. The program works.

[SLFguy]

"Exactly, alcoholism is a disease, and it is a treatable disease, contrary to what some posters seem to believe.

There are many airlines, along with many industrial companies, that have excellent policies and programs to treat the problem."

Not passing judgement, just want to understand what you are saying.

There are airlines who have alcoholics flying?

[sevenstrokeroll]

I do think that the title of the subject thread should be changed to something like: Drunk American Eagle Pilot.

I certainly didn't know the name of the man or really cared ...a rose by any other name

I flew with a pilot who had an alcohol problem...he recoverd and was a fine pilot and a fine man. When he was a copilot, before the problem, he saved a full jet airliner by extraordinary flying skills.

the airline we both worked for hadhas a one year recovery with full pay.

I would suggest to any pilot that you never start drinking in the first place.

[westhawk]

There are airlines who have alcoholics flying?

Of course there are. Once having completed whatever initial treatment regimen is prescribed, these "alcoholics" are referred to as "recovering alcoholics". The same applies to drug addicts too. Some of those suffering from other psychological "abnormalities" are still eligible to fill safety sensitive positions as well. And not just in flying either. I'd go so far as to say that every major career field is probably represented.

[mary meagher]

I would be very interested to know if a similar programme of treatment exists in Russia, where vodka is part of the culture.

[Lemain]

Of course there are. Once having completed whatever initial treatment regimen is prescribed, these "alcoholics" are referred to as "recovering alcoholics". The same applies to drug addicts too. Some of those suffering from other psychological "abnormalities" are still eligible to fill safety sensitive positions as well. And not just in flying either. I'd go so far as to say that every major career field is probably represented.AA purloined the word 'alcoholic' and redefined it for AA purposes, and introduced the term 'recovering alcoholic'. The 'disease' concept is not universally accepted but alcoholism is recognised as a mental illness. AA maintain that alcoholism is incurable hence 'recovering', never 'recovered' so any programme that is AA based (12-step) is for life.

Flying airlines is particularly dangerous to alcoholics:

Long periods of boredom
Periods of high stress
Missed, delayed or snack meals
Overnights alone without spouse or partner
Sufficient money to spend
An unusually (compared with other occupations) high proportion of young-ish, fit-ish, attractive-ish people who are all away from home and glad of company...where does one meet...over a meal or a drink.

The acronym HALT is used in some treatment programmes to remind alcoholics of the danger times --

Hungry
Angry
Lonely
Tired

These should all be avoided as far as possible as they are triggers to have a drink.

The best thing an alcoholic pilot can do is find a non-flying role where the hours are regular, meals are regular and they can go home safely to their partner every evening. The best thing an airline can do for an alcoholic pilot is find them an appropriate ground job.

[Desert185]

Lemain...The best thing an alcoholic pilot can do is find a non-flying role where the hours are regular, meals are regular and they can go home safely to their partner every evening. The best thing an airline can do for an alcoholic pilot is find them an appropriate ground job.

A ground job? That would drive me to drink after flying for a living.

[Dynamite1]

prevention better than cure...for airline drivers here in the tropics the national regulator's mandate; 100% BAT for every crew on every flight before one can even look at the ships papers. Failing/refusing the breath analyser (only a zero readout is pass) anchors the protagonist with imm effect. For a first time offence its a three month hiatus, docking of pay, and the regulator being informed.
In case of repeat, kiss ur license goodbye!
The BAT procedure pretty crisp and fool proof with no avenues to bypass!
been quite effective imho.

[westhawk]

The best thing an airline can do for an alcoholic pilot is find them an appropriate ground job.

Well that's one opinion. And I might even agree with it under narrowly defined circumstances involving individuals with a chronic problem. Conversely, many people committing alcohol related offenses aren't necessarily "alcoholics" unless the meaning of the term is broadened to include a whole set of behaviors related to alcohol consumption that do not fall within the clinical definition of alcoholism. I've long observed that the clinical, legal and colloquial usages of the word are not the same and are widely misused within society.

In my opinion it all comes down to how the terminology is used and in what context.

As for this latest accused pilot, I think it would be more appropriate if this stuff was handled with more discretion at least until such time as they are convicted of a criminal offense. It just seems more civilized.

westhawk

[westhawk]

100% BAT for every crew on every flight

What a wonderful idea! Why not add a simulator check too? Or is poor proficiency, perhaps due to lack of rest a more acceptable reason to crash? While we're at it we might as well give polygraph tests for malicious intent and strip searches for contraband just for good measure.(oh we sorta do already, my bad) After all you can never be too safe! :(

We just keep moving closer and closer to those dystopian sci-fi novels I grew up with.

[Lemain]

westhawk -- totally agree, most people are not alcoholics, they just did something stupid. Mind you, drinking and flying/driving/surgery/heavy machinery/industrial plant is so obviously a 'no' and so dumb that you ask whether they are smart enough to be doing such a responsible job. Still, a career and job breaker for one mistake is probably too harsh? A long ban is stupid - all it does is to make their skills rusty.

Other than ground jobs, there are opportunities for simulator training and airborne flying instructor (daytime, regular hours) both of which should be fine for a abstinent so-called 'recovering alcoholic'. They need regular hours and meals, few stress triggers; not all 'hairy' events cause 'stress' indeed most 'stress' results from things you can't control and that drag on. Reduce temptation, so meals out and bars especially when alone or with boozy company letting their hair down is a bad idea. Plenty of good quality regular sleep is also good. In essence, that means a 9 to 5 kind of job, not an operational airline pilot whose life is exactly the opposite.

100% BAC testing of all flight crew makes a lot of sense. Takes all the guesswork out and home testers are very reliable and cheap so there's no reason why anyone would present with positive BAC. If they slip-up after a late drinks gathering, they can phone-in sick. Good for pilots, public and airlines.

[deptrai]

google "Lyle Prouse". Or read this post:

http://www.pprune.org/3028059-post52.html

imho alcoholism is treatable.

[Lemain]

imho alcoholism is treatable.Yes, but the success rate even from the best private rehabs is less than 30% by their own stats. By sensible measures, i.e. 'treated' = 'cured' = no recurrence, ever, of uncontrolled drinking the success rate is very low indeed, single figures.

Futhermore, almost all treatments are based on the 12 Step programme originally invented by the founders of AA and hijacked (what a word to use on PPRune!) by the rehab hospitals. The treatment includes removal of triggers; the worst triggers for an alcoholic to slip happen many times a day for the typical airline pilot and are unavoidable in this job. Suppose you were a commercial beekeeper for a living and suddenly became hyper-sensitive to bee stings, that now cause anapylactic shock, (this is a real problem and does happen) would you still work the hives?

[westhawk]

"Lyle Prouse".

I remember the Prouse postings from awhile back and found his words quite poignant and instructive.

so dumb that you ask whether they are smart enough to be doing such a responsible job.


Quite so, but from what I've seen in real life it's usually more to do with the emotions than the intellect.

westhawk

[Dynamite1]

Westhawk......afraid I don't quite see the analogy, although I do get the sense! After three decades of pulling the pole in those military mach-beaters; having lost a few mates who ended up on the wrong side of the 'battle with bottle to throttle', find this very simple procedure (takes three minutes including the sign in) extremely effective, and ensures that we don't endanger fare paying public with this avoidable issue.
Bottomline....stops a defaulter from getting anywhere near the Gate.

[Huck]

100% BAC testing of all flight crew makes a lot of sense. Takes all the guesswork out and home testers are very reliable and cheap so there's no reason why anyone would present with positive BAC. If they slip-up after a late drinks gathering, they can phone-in sick. Good for pilots, public and airlines.

It's good if you don't believe in civil rights or human dignity.......

[Lemain]

westhawk Quite so, but from what I've seen in real life it's usually more to do with the emotions than the intellect.That's also mainstream thinking in the treatment of alcoholism and other chemical dependency (aside from nicotine which is different). The difference is important to the clinician treating the alcoholic but not an airline. The airline needs to ensure that its pilots turn up for work fit for work. Those who don't, particularly those with some long-term hard-to-treat illness need to be moved out of operational flying duty into some other role, or let-go. When it comes to large numbers of people at real risk, then due diligence demands a low-tolerance to such issues and in the case of alcohol the technology is so simple and affordable that the tolerance can be close to zero. As everyone here knows, for sure, everyone has some ethanol in their blood...it's never zero as in 0.00% but there is a level that can distinguish between nominal zero and zero zero.

Those whose emotions lead to the bottle without adequate time to throttle are not fit to fly airliners. They need to phone-in sick if they have a temporary problem...no need to mention drink at all.

All rules need boundaries or they are unenforceable. Why is the age of sexual consent in the UK 16 years? At 2345 UTC you've assaulted a minor whose birthday is tomorrow. What about DST? Or other time zones? Suppose the minor was actually born in a zone GMT - 6 hours? Have you still assaulted them? Is it the time of birth or the date of the certificate? Even those boundaries that seem straightforward are subject to argument :)

[westhawk]

Well Dynamite my objections to this approach have more to do with the kind of world we are to live in. I already greatly resent the post 9/11 world of aviation security in the form of the TSA and their rampant disregard for common sense. I feel that autocratic measures such as mandatory drug and alcohol testing already go too far and am opposed to adding any more. It is a tiny problem that could be better addressed through other measures than distrusting an entire group completely innocent of any wrongdoing regarding alcohol/drugs. If anything the preflight sim check makes more sense!

Anyway no offense is intended by my sarcasm. The dystopian sci-fi novels I refer to include Brave New World by Huxley, 1984 by Orwell, If This Goes On and Coventry by Heinlein, This Perfect Day by Levin, Fahrenheit 451 by Bradbury and many other sci-fi stories by authors like Clarke and Asimov. Classic stuff that was just as much about societal observations pertinent to the times in which they were written as the fictional stories they told. In essence the stories were vehicles to present the authors ideology in fictional story form.

Have good day all.

westhawk

[Lemain]

It's good if you don't believe in civil rights or human dignity.......Generally, I'm batting on the same team as you. Trouble is that alcohol is such a major part not just of our recreation but our diet and culture. Those with a drink problem live in that culture and makes it hard for them to stop. I guess many of us know pilots and others who work in abstinent states to avoid temptation. That's smart, if you know you've got a problem.

I'm not sure that it's 'undignified' to blow into an intoximeter? Since the tester doesn't know me from Adam it isn't personal...I just don't care. Others might care, and I understand that but what about passengers? Employers? I don't see the 'civil rights' argument at all. Every jockey is weighed before the race and after. Is that 'undignified' and against 'civil rights'? In any case, random testing is normal and accepted. I'd find it far more undignified to be tested because I looked out of sorts (when I wasn't) than be tested before every flight.

I think it'll come. Would be better to put the effort into making sure that the procedure and consequences on fail are acceptable than try to sandbank the water-meadows from the river.

[Lemain]

westhawk --

Well Dynamite my objections to this approach have more to do with the kind of world we are to live in.I'm with you 100% on this, in general. But alcoholism is a mental illness. Those who are not alcoholic but who slip up by accident should have self-tested after a boozy session. If they don't self-test BAC can they be relied upon to even do a proper pre-flight?

PRE-FLIGHT CHECKS

1. Are captain and crew sober and fit to fly?....

[Karel_x]

Do Russian pilots have drinking problems?
I would be very interested to know if a similar programme of treatment exists in Russia, where vodka is part of the culture.
I can remember last several serious disasters with alcohol:
12.9.2012 An-28 Kamchatka - both pilots (!)(investigated also the grown crew)
20.6.2011 Tu-134 Petrozavodsk - navigator (short after that the company lost AOC)
14.9.2008 B737 Perm, CPT (Aeroflot ends the cooperation with the company and it was sold)

Despite this, there are very big differences in drinking in Russia. Cities x villages, educated x non educated, employed x unemployed, young x old etc. Vodka is not important part of culture for qualified and educated people with good job in cities like Moscow or S. Petersburg. I guess it is fully comparable with a rest of the world.

[westhawk]

Those who don't, particularly those with some long-term hard-to-treat illness need to be moved out of operational flying duty into some other role, or let-go.

Yes, agreed.

I also think it's time to admit that the "disease" didn't make someone show up half in the bag. That was a choice. A poor choice that should be dealt with by removal from flying duty today and depending on the full circumstances perhaps forever, at least for this company. I know I wouldn't tolerate it as a boss. Call in sick, ask for treatment, seek treatment outside, whatever. Show up impaired and you're out. We just don't need pilots with that kind of judgment. If somebody calls in sick too much they're gone too, but at least they didn't endanger their license their life or anyone elses. Perhaps they should seek treatment before it really starts costing them. Then if they have the stones to complete the process they'll have their chance at redemption. But after showing up tanked is a little late in my book.

It's not always easy to be both compassionate towards someone with a sickness yet intolerant of willful negligence. But that's how I am on this subject. Others may disagree.

westhawk

[westhawk]

Anyway it really is time to sign off for now. Good discussion and good day!

westhawk

[woodja51]

Not condoning any guys heading to work when they shouldnt, but just exactly how many accidents were attributable to drug or alcohol present in a pilots system... My guess is.... Almost none!

So what is the risk / consequence /probability of this issue causing an accident versus other factors we accept ( mostly) without question such as fatigue, poor training , aircraft that have design flaws with paper procedures that have to be recalled on a dark and stormy night to keep them flying ( ref Airbus) etc etc...

By the way, even though most companies have a zero level, several regulators globally have a .04 BAC in the legislation as well as a 8 hr + bottle to throttle...

So there is not an agreed position or world best practice in the first place...

Frankly give me a "chuck yeager"in a cockpit with a beer under his belt than some of the products from the continued race to the bottom training systems...

But the law is the law so that ends the rhetoric or " gedankan " experiment...

[Lemain]

westhawk -- Yes, was a good discussion, my pleasure. Good day to you...and Happy New Year. Glad to hear that my American cousins didn't all fall off that dreadful cliff!

[Huck]

I don't see the 'civil rights' argument at all.

I can see that.

Police could solve many more crimes if they could ignore constitutional protections also. But that don't make it right.

The previous poster hit the nail on the head. I cannot name a non-russian airline accident caused by alcohol abuse. I can name one dozen caused by lack of basic flying skills. Perhaps every pilot should be required to demonstrate a simple stall recovery in a simulator when they duty in to work.........

[sevenstrokeroll]

our airline has a rule of 12 hours to report, we report an hour before flight so, its really 13 hours bottle to throttle.

as it is in our ops specs/FOM, it has the weight of a FAA regulation.

also a specific number on a blood test.

[Lemain]

our airline has a rule of 12 hours to report, we report an hour before flight so, its really 13 hours bottle to throttleFine for normal social drinkers. Not for alcoholics. If I had to be piloted by an active drinking alcoholic pilot I'd give him a half litre of vodka half an hour before take off. Better still, take the bus.

[Uncle Fred]

westhawk stated:

It's not always easy to be both compassionate towards someone with a sickness yet intolerant of willful negligence. But that's how I am on this subject. Others may disagree.


Well said westhawk and I would like to think that many do agree with you. The idea of trying to understand another person's struggles is something to which we should all aspire. Yet we also need to be mindful of what would bring them to work in such a diminished state and that they must be prevented from being at the controls.

I think the points made by westhawk, Lemain, and Huck are some of the best that I have read on this topic and I commend them for raising the level of the discussion--very good reading.

[DownIn3Green]

Well, I suppose I'm goimg to catch hell for this, but here I go...

WoodJA51 makes a good point re: Chuck Yeager...however, Gen Yeager was in his A/C ALONE...

I have always belived Rules were made for idiots with no common sense...

Getting back to the theme of this thread, some folks seem to feel that it is OK to be a little under the weather when flying...

I might agree with this, but the theory of a little bit won't hurt...

And probably under normal operations everything should be OK...

So now you lose an engine after V1, and the second engine on the same wing shuts down due to debris...

That bit of "under the weather" that you took off with has just killed 200 plus pax plus your crew...

Anyone who doesn't like this post, get the PPrune breathalizer out, because I'm definately "PUI"...(posting umder the influence)...Sorry for my luck...DI3G...

[mary meagher]

There is a poster nailed to the door of the loo in my gliding club; IMSAFE. You all know what it means....there are a lot of conditions that should cause you to decline to fly, illness, medication, alcohol, fatigue, emotional upset. Probably the biggest cause of unfitness to fly, considering modern conditions of employment, would be fatigue, certainly a factor in the Colgan disaster. BUT the stupidest reason for being unfit is alcohol, and I am absolutely in favour of a breath test as a matter of simple routine. Low cost, universal, and if you know you have to take one you wouldn't be stupid enough to drink, would you?

A shame about alcoholics, recovering or otherwise, I have four in my immediate family alone, and if tempted I could easily fall into the syndrome. BUT there are a lot of guys out there who would LOVE to have a job flying for the airlines. If you feel sorry for any recovering alcoholics, give them a job on the ground, and let them get their kicks flying alone where nobody else gets hurt.

[Dg800]

It's good if you don't believe in civil rights or human dignity....... If we were talking about every single citizen being screened in the morning before even being let out of their home, then you'd have a point. As we're only talking about a select group of people being tested right before being entrusted with several hundreds of lives, I think that screaming "Human rights violation!" is a bit over-the-top if not outright ridiculous. :ugh:

[Dynamite1]

Downin3,Mary & DG..

spot on folks...as it is drivers today combat many connected issues; circadian, fatigue, irrational scheduling, prolonged layovers.....and other usual occupational hazards (lack of skill?)....one less off the list can only help stay atop the ship....
While a simple breath analyzer test (0 reading at my latitude) is no skin off my back; there will always be a contrary opinion!
cheers all..

[sevenstrokeroll]

I've been earning a living as a pilot since 1979

I would be very happy to do a breath test prior to each flight/takeoff etc.

I do support this...I also support anyone who commands a nuclear weapons system (eg: president obama) does the same thing along with random drug testing.

Of course I don't drink or use illegal drugs.

[con-pilot]

I do support this...I also support anyone who commands a nuclear weapons system (eg: president obama) does the same thing along with random drug testing.


Along with every surgeon just prior to performing surgery.

Every bus driver before they get on a bus.

Every train engineer just before they get into the engine cab.

Every ship captain before they get on the bridge.

Every truck driver before they can get into the truck.

Every police officer before they report for duty.

Etc.

[deptrai]

Every bus driver before they get on a bus

this is already happening...during the last 4-5 years, several cities in Sweden, Norway and Finland (a country with a similar drinking problem like Russia...) have tested a "breath alcohol locks" which require bus drivers to push a button and then blow into a breathalyzer which is connected to the engine control unit. If alcohol is detected, a red light goes on, and the engine won't start. After initial scepticism, bus drivers now seem to accept it, and it will be rolled out on a full scale in several cities. I think some legislators in New York want to make this mandatory for school buses. I haven't made up my mind on this, but I'm not entirely against it. In principle, I don't like the increased "surveillance" of innocent people who are not at fault in any way, and generally I like the idea of trusting other people, but on the other hand it seems to be a relatively inexpensive way to prevent drunk driving (and potentially save lives).

Simple technology, no police involved...it prevents people from drunk driving, instead of punishing them for it (and is probably more cost effective for society than sending offenders to prison and victims to the hospital).

I don't see this coming to aircraft anytime soon, I think the case for airplanes is less compelling, as there are far more drunk driving accidents than "FUI" accidents, and it would be a long road to get it certified...but in places where "FUI" accidents have happened, maybe it wouldn't be such a bad idea.

[mary meagher]

con-pilot, that's an interesting list you propose for regular breath testing for alcohol. In addition to President Obama, as proposed by seven-stroke-roll.

Let me go down the list and see if these are comparable to piloting an aircraft in risk to the general public.

1) Surgeons generally only kill one patient at a time.
2) Train drivers don't have to steer or navigate, and they usually survive mid track collisions
3) Truck and bus drivers and car drivers and police officers constitute such an enormous population of potential drinkers that setting up a universal pre-driving or pre-use of firearms breath test would be impractical. They also usually only kill one or two victims at a time.
4) Ship captains, since the Titanic, usually carry sufficient lifeboats and have time to use them if they do something stupid, like showing off and running aground. This is not necessarily true in third world countries, or smuggling illegal aliens into Europe or the United States, but once again, enforcement is impractical.

So sorry, all you sensitive airline pilots, suffering from six monthly medicals, yearly sim sessions, and the financial squeeze of salary that is always a problem for pilots and librarians - if it is a desirable occupation, there is an oversupply of aspirants. Supply and demand. So guess you'll just have to pucker up and blow.

[Basil]

six monthly medicals, yearly sim sessions *
Recollect mentioning to my AME, as he carried out his simple, but lucrative, check of the Bas mind and body, that no-one ever checked him.
AME: "I read The Lancet"
Bas: "But no-one asks you questions about it!"


* Six monthly sim sessions of two days each in the airlines for which I've flown :ok: