Air Bagan Fokker F100 crash in Myanmar city - Burma (Photos included)

[Ozavatar]

any updates on what happened with Air bagan's F100 today ? I heard that they have crashed somehwere in Burma and two people died ???

[crHedBngr]

Here's a link: Jet crash lands: 2 dead, including 11-yr old - Emirates 24/7 (http://www.emirates247.com/news/jet-crash-lands-2-dead-including-11-yr-old-2012-12-25-1.488653)

[StormyKnight]

Myanmar plane crash kills child, rider | News.com.au (http://www.news.com.au/breaking-news/world/passenger-jet-makes-emergency-landing/story-e6frfkui-1226543310485)

A FLIGHT packed with Christmas tourists has crash-landed on a road in central Myanmar (Burma), killing two people and injuring 11.
Four foreigners were among the injured, state television reported on Tuesday. The airline said the injured were American, British and Korean.
The fatalities included an 11-year-old passenger believed to be a Myanmar citizen and a man riding a motorcycle on the road where the plane came down, state TV said.
The Air Bagan flight was carrying 63 passengers, including 51 foreigners, and six crew members.
It was flying from the city of Mandalay to Heho airport in Shan State, the gateway to a popular tourist destination, Inle Lake, Air Bagan said in a brief statement on its Facebook page.
The airline described the incident as an "emergency landing".
Authorities gave a different and more dramatic account, saying the pilot mistook the road for a runway due to bad weather.
"While descending, the plane mistakenly landed ... due to fog beside the runway," state television reported. It said the aircraft made a hard landing on a road and then came to a stop in a nearby rice paddy field.
"The rear end of the plane broke and caught fire," state TV said, carrying a statement posted on Deputy Information Minister Ye Htut's Facebook page.
Rescuers brought the fire under control about 45 minutes later, he said.
Witnesses said smoke filled the plane when it hit the ground and was still rising from the plane's badly charred wreckage hours later.
Airport officials in Heho said that injured passengers were taken to a hospital in the nearby city of Taunggyi for treatment.
Air Bagan is one of five private airlines that fly domestic routes in Myanmar. It is a unit of Htoo Trading Company, which is owned by business tycoon Tay Za.

[cpt_shawky]

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Jet crash lands: 2 dead, including 11-yr old

A Myanmar plane carrying 65 passengers including foreign tourists crash-landed in eastern Shan state on Tuesday, leaving two people dead and 11 others injured, the airline and officials said. Air Bagan said the aircraft, an ageing Fokker-100, was forced to make an emergency landing two miles (three kilometres) from Heho airport, which is the gateway to the popular tourist destination of Inle Lake.
"One passenger who was missing was found dead inside the plane. We are still trying to identify who the dead passenger is," the carrier announced in a statement posted on its Facebook page.
The victim was an 11-year-old child, according to the information ministry, which added that four foreigners were among those hurt in the accident.
Another person was killed when the plane struck a motorbike on a road near the airport, it said.
The exact circumstances of the incident were not immediately clear, but a government official said a fire was reported in one of the engines as it approached Heho airport at around 9 am (0230 GMT).
"Because of the emergency landing near the airport, the plane broke up in the middle," the official told AFP on condition of anonymity, adding that passengers were evacuated.
A local tour guide waiting at the airport for passengers on the Air Bagan flight to arrive said the fire had "burnt almost the whole plane".
Air Bagan spokesman Ye Min Oo said the two pilots among the injured were taken to hospital, although their condition was not immediately known.
"The cause of the accident is not clear yet. Only the pilots will know the cause, but we can't contact them yet as they have been sent to hospital," he said.
Air Bagan is one of several domestic carriers seeking to profit from a tourist boom in Myanmar as it emerges from decades of military rule. It is owned by Tay Za, a tycoon known for his close links to the former junta.
The airline operates two Fokker 100 jets, which are no longer manufactured.
Long isolated from the world under decades of junta rule, the Southeast Asian nation has seen an influx of tourists and business travellers in recent months following a raft of political reforms.
The surge in demand for air travel has stretched Myanmar's aviation infrastructure, in particular in remote airports.
Yangon International Airport, the country's main terminal, is set to exceed its limit of 2.7 million passengers this year and the Department of Civil Aviation warned in July it needs urgent upgrading.

[Juliet Sierra Papa]

Looking at those pictures it is a miracle that anybody survived.

[Dysonsphere]

Not really post landing fire will do that the wreackage looks pretty much undisrupted. Looks at first glance like a text book forced landing.

[safelife]

Reported as attempt to land in foggy conditions.
Heho Airport is equipped with a NDB as the only radio aid.
11 in hospital including both pilots, both locals.

[safelife]

Local media has reports of locals saying an engine was observed on fire before landing, the impact seems parallel to the airport with an offset of two miles or so.
Two dead, one local guide (passenger), one motorcyclist who got hit by the plane.
Nine passengers, two crew injured, total 71 pax on board, 51 of them being foreigners.

[hetfield]

reports of locals saying an engine was observed on fire before landingThis is said very often by "locals", but seldom true.....

Maybe it has to do with the speed of sound, e.g. fire on impact is seen before the sound of impact....


PR on BAGAN website

Airbagan Royal Lotus Plus / Myanmar Airline / Your Air Line in Myanmar / Asia Airline (http://www.airbagan.com/press-release.htm)

[subsonicsubic]

Can't comment on the carrier or the equipment but it is refreshing to see this open, honest approach to PR.

[DIBO]

And their website isn't bad either.

Even taking the post crash fire into account, I think they were pretty lucky. Tail section separated, no wings visible, the final second must have been a pretty rough ride though...

[Green Guard]

still...one more point up for No Crew in cockpit !

:eek:

[VinRouge]

Rh engine has had some form of uncontained failure by the looks of it. Tr missing. Post crash maybe?

[Romasik]

NDB approach in fog - the classical recipe for disaster. Having engine fire at the same time is extremely unlikely.

[oceancrosser]

Rh engine has had some form of uncontained failure by the looks of it. Tr missing. Post crash maybe?

If by Tr you mean Thrust Reverser, no such thing on the Fokkerjet.

[VinRouge]

i find it utterly miraculous that they put it down on scrubland and managed to get away with so few deaths.... sure it will all come out in the investigation, but low vis approaches will always be a hazard...

will these jets have been fitted with egpws/gpws at all?

[Airbubba]

If by Tr you mean Thrust Reverser, no such thing on the Fokkerjet.

Are you sure? :=

FOKKER 100 GENERAL. (http://www.fokker-aircraft.info/f100general.htm)

Looks like a T/R in the third picture posted above in this thread.

[suninmyeyes]

Looks at first glance like a text book forced landing.

or possibly they missed the runway and crashed a servicable aircraft...? Think Polish presidential flight or Britannia at Girona. Difficult landings in bad weather,

The GPWS is likely to be a primitive one with warnings based on terrain closure rate rather than a database. So if they were coming down at 700 fpm on an NDB approach to a runway there would be no warning if they went for a road instead.

[Hotel Tango]

Think you got that wrong Airbubba.

The Fokker 100 crashed shortly after take-off from Congonhas/São Paulo International Airport, São Paulo, Brazil, striking an apartment building and several houses. The crash was attributed to the uncommanded deployment of a faulty thrust-reverser on the right engine shortly after take-off.

[JanetFlight]

No Thrust Reverser @ Fk100....

http://images2.jetphotos.net/img/3/4/2/4/22606_1356385424.jpg

Hummmm, i dont think so...:confused:

Maybe Oceancrosser mistaken it with BAE146/ARJ.

[DIBO]

Indeed, no doubt about it: F100's got TR's (http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/3c/Klm_f100_ph-kle_arp.jpg)

So something happened to the RH TR (probably post impact?)

[acmech1954]

Thrust reversers on every F100 and 70 I have worked on, KLMuk and Cityhopper, and a few others.

[mini]

Apart from the sanctions etc, how difficult is it to keep a Fokker working these days? are parts readily available?

[Capn Bloggs]

how difficult is it to keep a Fokker working these days? are parts readily available?
Apparently. There are dozens of the things flying around Oz at the moment. Fokkers in my 12, Fokkers in my 6. Fokkers, Fokkers everywhere!

[Airbubba]

Think you got that wrong Airbubba.

Really? :E

[NARVAL]

I flew the palne for a few years, and of course there are thrust reversers. A very nice plane, mixing very advanced avionics (at the time) and very simple systems (you can still fly it with all hydraulics lost). For the reverse, there is a cable going to the thrust lever: if the reverse accidentally "deploys" in the air, it pulls the cable, and the cable pulls back the thrust lever to idle...Simple and effective! The autoland was extremely good (we tried it just to see in very gusty conditions and it landed the aircraft like a dream!) but ADF approaches...I guess it is a matter of stopping at minimum altitude...and flying no further...

[Tu.114]

In addition to Narvals technical description: we used to practise an inadvertent reverser deployment inflight on occasion in the simulator. While it shook the aircraft quite well until the engine was shut down (if I remember correctly, this was one of the few engine failures where the aircraft would not indicate the affected engine by lighting up the fuel lever; identifying the side was done by looking for the retarded power lever and the little R on the engine display), it was still flyable without noticeable loss of altitude. An open TR is not an instant accident in this aircraft at all.

[The Ancient Geek]

When Fokker went titzup someone bought out the company, renamed it Rekkof, and continued on a spares&service basis. So you still get full factory support but they no longer build new aircraft.

Lovely little aircraft, easy to fly and tough as old boots. The only downside is the outdated and thus somewhat thirsty engines. KLM replaced their last one about a year ago.

[acmech1954]

Only the 100s gone, still operating the 70s

[BALLSOUT]

Craking little airplane to fly, Airbus avionics and simple controls. Still lots of them flying, all with thrust reversers.
They are also now available as biz jets with a full re fit and range extended.
The mod to the thrust reverser system that automatically closes the corresponding thrust lever on inadvertant airborne deployment, was brought in after an accident in Brazil, when one deployed on take off and they took out a tower block.

[PAXboy]

Would be interesting to know the elapsed time from impact to all the photos being take. The 'fog' appears to have cleared by 100%. Sky News report the fire crews on hand quickly, due to proximity of airfield, also mentioned that USA had given an advisory notice about the carrier in previous months - no details of what and when.

[Tu.114]

What about the investigation - does Burma have the capabilities to investigate this accident itself, does it relegate this job to any other countries authority or will this accident go uninvestigated?

[hetfield]

NDB Approach, fog....

Several accidents come into my mind.....

[safelife]

Tu.114: local media reports flight data recorder and cockpit voice recorder have been located and will be sent to Singapore for read out.
So that might reveal what happened, apart from what the pilots will tell us.

[safelife]

US intelligence towards Air Bagan, interesting statements towards maintenance, pilot training and CAA supervision:

https://dazzlepod.com/cable/08RANGOON167/

[Tu.114]

Safelife,

thank You for the information. Especially paragraph 5 of the report You linked is interesting reading and makes me wonder how serious Burmese authorities will be about investigating this accident. If what is alleged in there is true and the supervising authority was under orders to turn at least one blind eye to this company, it would likely be good to have at least a part of the investigation done outside of the country.

[asc12]

The first report did say "landed on a road." I wonder if they mistook highway lights for the runway.

[Herod]

I spent seven years flying the F100. It certainly does have reversers. The confusion could come from it's official designation, which is F28-100. The original F28 (Speys, not Tays) did not have reversers.

[matkat]

Oceancrosser, having worked as a licensed engineer on F100/70s for many years I can assure that thrust reversers are indeed installed on these aircraft.
Totally agree with Herod, think you are getting confused with the F28.

[7478ti]

If it turns out to be related to fog, misidentified road as a runway, or hitting powerlines with an otherwise good jet, it will just be one more tragic unnecessary "low visibility landing" accident that didn't need to happen. These kinds of accidents are entirely preventable using a decent FMS with RNP (at trivially low procedure development cost globally), or even better yet with GBAS/GLS (at far less cost compared to any ILS). How many more of these kinds of unnecessary accidents do we need to have globally, before we recognize that "non-precision approaches" are unnecessary, obsolete dinosaurs, that have no place in modern jet transport aviation?

[Tu.114]

I do not know how the aircraft in question was operated, but during my years on the F70/100, no RNAV approaches were permitted. While the FMS showed the relevant approaches inserted in the database, we were never certified to use them.

A non-precision approach, if handled correctly, is not less safe than an ILS or the like and by itself no reason at all to crash an aircraft. There have been aircraft flown into the ground on an ILS as well, see the Alitalia DC-9 at LSZH in 1990 (http://aviation-safety.net/database/record.php?id=19901114-0) for example.

It will be interesting though to see whether the GPWS was serviceable and working on this flight.

[ZFT]

The US intelligence report is somewhat confusing. Whilst is doesn’t state which crews ‘stopped’ training in Singapore, of the then Air Bagan fleet in March 2008 I can’t recall any applicable simulators being in Singapore!


The ATR crews used Bangkok then and still do. No idea where the F100 crews went then or go now.


I think it is also fair to state that Myanmar 2012 is quite different from Myanmar 2008.

[VinRouge]

Tr's aside, the rh engine looks as if it has shed a few blades at some stage. The tr damage could have happened at any stage.

Until the report is out, the obvious contender will be the low vis approach. Until the full facts emerge, we do neither the potentially skilled actions of the crew nor the memories of the deceased any service. Lets wait till they at least pull the tapes and put out a preliminary report?

[aterpster]

This tells us something:

Air Bagan has said "the plane hit electrical cables about a mile (1.6 kilometers) from Heho airport as it descended and landed in rice fields."

[aterpster]

http://i201.photobucket.com/albums/aa214/aterpster/VYHHNDBRwy36_zpsf8c4d429.jpg

[aterpster]

http://i201.photobucket.com/albums/aa214/aterpster/VYHHairportdiagram_zps53bbccbb.jpg

[bille1319]

Looks like a perfect horizantal landing though. There's no mention of a missed approach or problems reported with visibility on the approach and with a servicable GPWS or basic satnav there should have been little trouble with the glide. However the RHS engine nozzle extension looks strange and the rudder seemed to have been compensating for this at the time of impact. We'll have to wait on flight recorder data publication.

[safelife]

@Tom Imrich: the aircraft wasn't GPS equipped. I'm not aware of any Fokker 100 with GPS.
DME/DME update is unavailable in the mountains of Burma. Hence no RNAV/RNP approach is possible there without GPS.

[D'pirate]

ZFT, the ex- KAL F100 simulator was briefly moved by Alteon to SIN before going, I believe, to Ansett flight training in Melbourne.

[ZFT]

Really, thanks

[Metro man]

Anyone have the METAR for the arrival time ?

[aterpster]

Tom:

If it turns out to be related to fog, misidentified road as a runway, or hitting powerlines with an otherwise good jet, it will just be one more tragic unnecessary "low visibility landing" accident that didn't need to happen. These kinds of accidents are entirely preventable using a decent FMS with RNP (at trivially low procedure development cost globally), or even better yet with GBAS/GLS (at far less cost compared to any ILS). How many more of these kinds of unnecessary accidents do we need to have globally, before we recognize that "non-precision approaches" are unnecessary, obsolete dinosaurs, that have no place in modern jet transport aviation?

RNP AR, ah the bar is set so very high.

Then, even with that capibility the runway end has to qualify, which is not a simple deal. Look at the number of LPV approaches that have been denied in the U.S. because of GQS issues and/or lack of the requiste vertical surveys.

The state-certified vertically-guided approach simply won't fit everywhere, not even with Boeing's super state-of-the-art gizmos. And, oh what Boeing charges to apply all of this stuff to airplanes like an early 767/757. Think of having a fleet of 40 such airplanes and looking at Boeing's invoice. :)

[LeadSled]

Folks,
Where did it crash, in relation to the airport? It is not obvious from the reports I have seen so far.
There is a road with a alignment not far off RW 36, to the south of the 36 threshhold.
Tootle pip!!

[Machaca]

They were lined up but too low and went through the trees along Highway 4, shearing off the wings:

http://i337.photobucket.com/albums/n385/motidog/BaganAir-HehoA_zps37c1620e.jpg


http://i337.photobucket.com/albums/n385/motidog/BaganAir-HehoB_zpsb29a7079.jpg


http://i337.photobucket.com/albums/n385/motidog/BaganAir-HehoC_zps1bb044d1.jpg


http://i337.photobucket.com/albums/n385/motidog/BaganAir-HehoD_zps57f1a139.jpg


http://i337.photobucket.com/albums/n385/motidog/BaganAir-HehoF_zpsed2deece.jpg


http://i337.photobucket.com/albums/n385/motidog/BaganAir-HehoG_zps8b0720de.jpg


http://i337.photobucket.com/albums/n385/motidog/BaganAir-Heho8_zps6f6ea522.jpg

http://i337.photobucket.com/albums/n385/motidog/BaganAir-Heho7_zps57b0ed32.jpg

http://i337.photobucket.com/albums/n385/motidog/BaganAir-Heho9_zps27c7da5e.jpg


http://i337.photobucket.com/albums/n385/motidog/BaganAir-Heho0_zps8db81341.jpg


http://i337.photobucket.com/albums/n385/motidog/BaganAir-Heho2_zpsaf1c8cc0.jpg

[Capn Bloggs]

I'm not aware of any Fokker 100 with GPS.

Quite few in Australia, some with ADSB. By Dec 2013, they'll all have ADSB unless they stay low.

Of course having GPS is one thing. Having the approach in the FMS database is another. As aterpster said, these things cost...

[Mr A Tis]

If it was XY-AGC, then it is an ex British Midland FK100 (G-BXWE). I pressume there will be some ex BMI drivers familiar with that particular aircraft?

[safelife]

I flew it in Myanmar as XY-AGC for airBagan in 2005, so go ahead with your question. (It had no GPS if that's it.)

[safelife]

There was a press conference today which had the senior flight attendant explaining what happened from her point if view.
She said there was no information given to them from the flight crew, they just noticed it was no normal touchdown and rushed to evacuate once the plane had come to a stop.
From what I understand she quickly moved herself to the overwing aero and opened some of the exits. At least one wouldn't open.
Passengers evacuated quickly and after that the junior flight attendant who was sitting in the back crawled through dense smoke to the front and reported to the captain (or senior attendant) that she saw no passenger on board. She received burns to her head on the way. The captain and this junior flight attendant left the plane by then and it started or was burning considerably by then.
The passenger who ceased did so because she fainted during impact and was left behind, the crew had no chance to notice her then in the smoke.
The senior flight attendant stressed that in her view the evacuation went pretty much as per procedure, and apologized for failing to rescue one passenger.

[LeadSled]

They were lined up but too low and went through the trees along Highway 4, shearing off the wings:

Machaca,
I assume this was to the south of the airport, and they were approaching 36, is this correct?
Tootle pip!!

[Thaihawk]

The Fokker 100 invilved in this crash was XY-AGC.

[rogerg]

How many more of these kinds of unnecessary accidents do we need to have globally, before we recognize that "non-precision approaches" are unnecessary, obsolete dinosaurs, that have no place in modern jet transport aviation?
Unfortunatly many A/C are flown in 3rd world countries who are not yet "modern".

[hetfield]

and with a servicable GPWS or basic satnav there should have been little trouble with the glide.

GPWS wouldn't produce any warning, unless not properly configured or high ROD.

EGPWS indeed, would have helped.

[skianyn vannin]

What was the actual visibility at the time of the accident? Can anyone post the METAR. I see from the Jep chart that 2800 metres is required.

[aterpster]

What was the actual visibility at the time of the accident? Can anyone post the METAR. I see from the Jep chart that 2800 metres is required.

According to Aviation Hearld there are no METARs or local weather reports for this airport.

[smiling monkey]

According to Aviation Hearld there are no METARs or local weather reports for this airport.

You'd be lucky to get a windsock, let alone runway threshold markings at some of the remote airports in Myanmar...

[Herod]

I know it's only Google Earth, but the terrain looks pretty flat for the three miles before the 36 threshold. Don't see why they would impact before the runway, unless something else was wrong. As has been posted before, if a reverser deployed inadverently the thrust level would retract to idle. At approach power, that would normally be quite controllable.

[aterpster]

What was the actual visibility at the time of the accident? Can anyone post the METAR. I see from the Jep chart that 2800 metres is required.

Flat, except for the power lines and the row of trees.

[Centaurus]

Unfortunatly many A/C are flown in 3rd world countries who are not yet "modern".

It has little to do with the type of approaches. Non precision approaches have been normal procedure since instrument approaches were first used in aviation. This includes WW2. The problem is the incompetency of the pilots that fly them and the age old habits of `ducking` under. ` Change the attitudes, cultural or otherwise of the crews and the perceived risks associated with non-precision approaches will reduce.

"Real men don't go around" is the attitude that leads to crashes and kills people and there is plenty of evidence this attitude is common among certain types of pilots. Again, ethnic culture often plays its part.

[Willie Everlearn]

Let's say this aircraft was equipped with GPS. I don't believe the Myanmar CAA has issued any approvals for stand alone GPS approaches.
Has anyone found a stand alone GPS approach in that country?

[mates rates]

Sometimes the attitude in these 3rd world places with NDB approaches is "you just put the needle on the nose and go as low as you can go".In these humid tropical environments the clouds grow up out of the jungle not down from the sky.

[Lone_Ranger]

Don't normally comment on accidents and wont pretend to have any special knowledge, but apart from the detached TRs, nobody seems to have mentioned the bloody big hole in the side of the nacelle..:suspect:

[Machinbird]

Don't normally comment on accidents and wont pretend to have any special knowledge, but apart from the detached TRs, nobody seems to have mentioned the bloody big hole in the side of the nacelle..http://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:www.pprune.org/get/images/smilies/cwm13.gif
Well, if you are seeing the same hole that I see, the fire damage runs vertically above the hole, and not aft, ergo more than likely caused after everything came to rest.

[Lone_Ranger]

The fire may have come afterwards, dont mean the hole didnt get made before it lit up does it? anyway just an observation.

[BALLSOUT]

obsolete dinosaurs, that have no place in modern jet transport aviation? The F100 was way advanced for it's day. I flew them years ago in the 90's, but I'd say thay are more advanced in many ways than the new 737-800's I fly now.
I would be happy to fly them again any time.

[pontifex]

Ballsout. I agree wholeheartedly. They were the bees'knees. Only problem I ever knew about was when the busbar behind the FO shorted out and filled the FD with blinding smoke/fumes in seconds. LHS was wearing enormous glasses that gave hin a little protection and he slung it at the nearest runway he could see(fortunately they were in the pattern at CPH at the time). The FMS was way ahead of it's time and the instrumentation was pure early Airbus. It was a delight to fly and we had an unofficial competition to see who could get it from LGW to CDG (raw date/manual) fastest. No problems with over reliance on gizmos then!

[VinRouge]

Don't normally comment on accidents and wont pretend to have any special
knowledge, but apart from the detached TRs, nobody seems to have mentioned the
bloody big hole in the side of the nacelle..http://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:www.pprune.org/get/images/smilies/cwm13.gif


I mentioned about potentially spat blades with my original comment on the TR. But this could have come as a result of FOD as the jet carved its way through the treeline.

My thoughts are in agreement with another poster; if this damage pre-existed prior to impact, you would have expected smoke stains both aft and above the hole. Until the prelim report comes out and they replay the tapes, its all guesswork!

If the aircraft has impacted trees, I wouldnt be surprised if the TR had ripped itself off in the impact with the ground.

[hetfield]

It has little to do with the type of approaches. Non precision approaches have been normal procedure since instrument approaches were first used in aviation. Relevant accident statistics show the opposite....

[Loose rivets]

Yes, it's so like many of the accidents/incidents at the time of my early career.

I can still feel the reluctance to breath as we descended into icy still cloud on one NDB.

[The Real Slim Shady]

How many of you have operated in to Heho?

Know the terrain, threats?

[bluepilot]

The F100 although advanced for its time did have drawbacks, many were fitted with AHRS and without adequate DME updating the map could shift quite alot, I do not know of a GPS upgrade for the aircraft and the airline i operated them for had TAWS (EGPWS) fitted some 7 or 8 years ago, it is unlikely that this aircraft had TAWS fitted when new , therefore it is possible that it was retro fitted to this airframe. An NDB approach was not easy although the drift ball and (if well trained) the FPA was useful.

I always remember my sim instructor in the 1990s when converting onto the type preaching that when all the gizmos were starting to confuse and absorb the crew to throw them away and to always remember "its only a bloody aeroplane!" and revert to basics. "the kit although clever is perfectly capable of flying you into a mountain". Wise words.

[BobnSpike]

#slim shady:

Since when was knowledge a prerequisite to post authoritatively on PPRuNe?

[The Real Slim Shady]

@bluepilot: that particular model was a 650-15 unlike the KLM jets that were 620-15 a la F70. The KLM jets had AHRS.

That jet had triple IRS: there is no DME / DME updating in that area. Once you leave the Mandalay VOR you are on your own:the Heho NDB is next to useless, in a valley 3600ft above MSL. If you can't do a visual approach the chance of getting in is slim.

The road that runs perpendicular to the runway axis has power lines to the south: it may be an error setting the local QNH.

@bob - there is no LIKE button on here :-)

[JFA]

I was under the impression that KLM had a mix of 650-15 F100's with triple FCC and triple IRS, which was the top notch config available.

Also, FMS approaches are not allowed in the Fokker 100, but if used wisely, can make NPA's, specially NDB, much, much, much safer. You don't have to be in a 3rd world country to start an approach only to find your ADF needles just frozen. Happened to me more times than i would like, but you gotta relate all the information available to the crew and don't screw with the MDA.

I flew F100's with 3 AHRS over the Atlantic to the beautiful Madeira Island, it always found us that piece of land, but we had some drift events.
With 3 IRS's, if everything is checked out and operated correctly, you have a better gun than ADF needles, even after 150NM navigating only on IRS sources.
FMS navigation, like i said before, is a good source for cross-reference, on the Fokker 100, is a supplemental means of navigation.

I am sorry for the loss of life, my condolences to the families of those who where victims of this tragic event.

[bluepilot]

Shady is correct the KLM F100s were TAY620-15 with triple AHRS, the F70s had twin IRS, KLM later aquired 5 used F100s with 650-15 engines with triple IRS. All F100s have been retired and only the F70s remain in service.

I am informed that this airframe was ex BMI so probably did have triple IRS, not that that makes a huge difference given the challenges to the crew on the day with primative NDB equipment and terrain issues.

[Tinribs]

I second the above comments on flyability and updating

NDBs were very easy as groundspeed and track were clearly displayed, what else do you want. On an ILS you did not get DME if the wrong runway was entered, not sure how this would be presented on a non ILS runway

There was a problem that the systems were designed for european operation and so if out of dme range for some time perculiar effects could be seen. The system seemed to assume that any errors were due to system drift and allow for it in future but if the percieved drift was due to poor dme quality the system could correct for non existing drift and induce an error

[mr cellophane]

As befits my age, I have only just become aware of the crash (thanks to Airliner World) Something jogged my memory about 11327 and sure enough, it was an aircraft that I worked on at EMA, when it flew for British Midland. (I still cannot call it bmi). Its always sad to hear bad news of an old friend.

[blind pew]

My most stressful flight ever was on a F100 as we lost our Nav dsiplays during a dirty dive into Sofia during the Yugoslavian conflict.
A cheap system which would drop out if you lost the two DMEs that it calculated it's position from. Did the same if the two were were on the same axis as the aircraft (gva).
So you had to dive into your briefcase, find the chart, tune the nav aids.....

Similarly the all talking autothrottle didn't work in open descent - we had two stall warnings flying into Nice during visual approaches before it was realised that it didn't do what it was supposed to do.

The first the crews knew that the autothrottle wasn't working was the shakers.

Then it had a useless undercarriage - I grounded an aircraft once to be told by the guy who was responsible for the original acceptance that he had refused the aircraft...SR modified it and Marichetti? Built a new one which failed with the press on board.
Wrong aircraft for a flag carrier.

[DownIn3Green]

Fokker 28...ala Piedmont/Henson had no T/R's...

[Piltdown Man]

...nobody seems to have mentioned the bloody big hole in the side of the nacelle..

How about engine components which, nanoseconds before, where whizzing around at warp factor snot, escaping when asked to stop in the blink of an eye?

There also appears to be some rather high expectations of an investigation. Analysing CVR and FDR data requires a great deal of expertise - if they were working. And then who will be doing the investigation? I'll suggest that there is not a great deal of experience in this country. Unfortunately, normal procedure in this part of the world is to find the captain and blame him.

However, if you consider these questions:

Was there a DME?
Was the runway lit (are lights installed)?
Was there an official approach?
What were the minima for that approach?
What are the restrictions if the NDB was U/S?
When was the NDB last tested?
What was the weather on the day?
What were the planning minima?
What do the airline's procedures say about operating at Heho?
How much fuel was carried?
What was the technical status of the aircraft?
What was the background of the pilots?

etc...

Unless each of these has a reasonably positive answer, this will just be another "Third World Jungle Crash", of which we will see more of as this part of the world gets richer.

Top Tip: Don't fly "Third World" if you want first world safety.

[safelife]

Flight Data Recorders were sent to Singapore, but got refused, then sent to Australia for read out and analyses.
In answer to your questions:

Was there a DME?
- there is no DME at Heho.
Was the runway lit (are lights installed)?
- the runwa is not lighted.
Was there an official approach?
- there are NDB approaches (with high minima) to both runways
What were the minima for that approach?
- between 4500 and 5700 ft altitude depending on the charts
What are the restrictions if the NDB was U/S?
- no IFR approach possible
When was the NDB last tested?
- good question, let's say the indication is stable 3 NM inbound
What was the weather on the day?
- fog in the morning, otherwise clear
What were the planning minima?
- see approach minima
What do the airline's procedures say about operating at Heho?
- not much I reckon!
How much fuel was carried?
- usually plenty as fuel is tankered into Heho
What was the technical status of the aircraft?
- reliable sources tell me it left of lot to be desired...
What was the background of the pilots?
- local

[JammedStab]

Accident: Bagan F100 near Heho on Dec 25th 2012, landed on road outside airport (http://avherald.com/h?article=45b1221e/0000)

http://avherald.com/files/bagan_f100_xy-agc_heho_121225_final_report.pdf

The Aviation Herald was able to obtain a copy of the final report concluding the probable causes were:

Primary Cause

- During the final approach, the aircraft descended below the MDA and the crew did not follow the operator SOP's.

- The pilots had no corrective action against to change VMC to IMC during bad weather condition and insufficient time for effective respond to last moment.

Secondary Cause

- Captain of the aircraft had insufficient assessment on the risk that assigned the FO as PF.

- There may be under pressure by the following aircrafts as the first plane on that day to Heho.

Myanmar's Directory of Civil Aviation (DCA) reported the aircraft was performing an NDB approach to Heho's runway 36, MDA at 530 feet, the first officer (29, CPL, 849 hours total, 486 hours on type) was pilot flying, the captain (49, ATPL, 5,937 hours total, 2,547 hours on type) was pilot monitoring.

The crew had properly briefed a go around.

After joining the final approach the aircraft descended with flaps at 42 degrees, there were cloud between aircraft and the runway threshold. The pilot flying therefore was looking down onto the panel flying the instruments, the pilot monitoring was watching the outside.

As the aircraft descended through 660 feet the pilot flying called "I visual".

About 2.5nm before the runway threshold the EGPWS called "500", the aircraft was descending at 700fpm at 139 KIAS. The aircraft continued to descend, at 108 feet AGL the captain called "Not OK" and pushed the ALT HLD button, the EGPWS announced "100", "50", "40", "30", sounds of impact were heard in the cockpit while the aircraft collided with a 66 kV power line, trees, telephone cables, a fence and collided with the ground coming to a stop 0.7nm before the runway threshold, aircraft debris struck motorcyclists. One passenger and one motorcyclist died in the accident, another motor cyclist and the remaining occupants of the aircraft survived, 2 crew and 7 passengers with serious injuries, 4 crew and 57 passengers with minor or no injuries. The aircraft was destroyed.

The DCA reported the captain commented "Not OK" just prior to 100 feet EGPWS call and pushed the ALT HLD button just when the EGPWS sounded "100", however, the first sounds of impact occurred at the same time.

The DCA analysed:

During the approach to Heho airport, there were foggy conditions reported in the Heho area, including low fog on the approach to runway 36. As the aircraft descended on the approach, the crew briefed for a possible go-around. However, during the final approach, the aircraft passed through the MDA and the crew continued the approach in reducing visibility conditions. Due to the low fog, it is likely that the crew were not aware of the tress, power lines and other obstacles short of the runway.

The DCA analysed:

During the approach to Heho, the crew briefed for a possible go-around, which is normally action when the aircraft reaches the MDA and the crew decide to continue, based on remaining visual with the runway or, if not visual, conduct a go-around. The MDA at Heho was 530ft.

While on final approach at an altitude of 660 ft, the pilot flying called "I visual", however there was no similar call when the aircraft reached the MDA at 530 ft. At 500ft, the EGPWS aural alert sounded"500" with no response from either crew member. The approach was continued without any crew call out on the visual conditions at the time until. at 02:23:04, at eight of just above 100 ft, the PIC called "Not OK, indicated that the crew were previously satisfied that the crew likely maintained some visibility of the runway or the runway environment. However, by not calling out the standard MDA call at 530 ft, the crew missed an opportunity to ensure that the approach was still within all normal parameters at a point where they could execute a successful go-around.

In addition, the aircraft EGPWS aural alert announced callout heights of "100","50", "40", "30". These callouts are standard alerts to provide height cues to the crew during the flare and landing and are not used for terrain avoidance. Despite the EGPWS callouts, there were no further actions taken by the crew apart from activating the Alt Hold function at a height that was too low to prevent terrain collision.

...

The Air Bagan Standard Operating Procedures (SOP) for a non-precision approach were clear in their guidance in regard to calling "visual" at the MDA of and approach and that if the aircraft entered IMC after passing the MDA, the crew were to conduct a go-around.

It is apparent that from the recorded evidence that the crew did not follow the requirements of the Air Bagan SOP's and Heho NDB letdown procedure during the approach to Heho.

The report analyses critical of Air Bagan's safety management and safety overview as well as DCA's overview of the airline, however, without identifying specific points related to the accident flight.

The DCA issued following safety recommendations however:

- Department of Civil Aviation ensure the Air Operator's implementation of FDR analyses Programmes.

- Air Bagan operation ensure the qualitative requirements of operational personal with non-precision NDB approach training with IMC, awareness of MDA, and EGPWS alert.

- Air Bagan operation ensure to access multi-crew operation of CRM training, supervision of captain and the risk FO to perform the PF.

[talkinair]

Thanks JammedStab for the follow-up.
Sad.
Also typical of so many accidents...reporter says witnesses said engine was on fire.
Report says no mechanical problem, just CFIT.
Thankfully old airplanes and non-precision approaches are quickly fading away.
Unfortunately, pilot error persists.

[Piltdown Man]

That was a good find JS, thanks. But I disagree with you talkinair; the "old" F100 works very well and is a good instrument flying platform. A newer aircraft would do no better unless flown down a GPS approach to CAT I limits, but I don't think this airport has drawn up such an approach.

A quick read of the report puts the following questions in my mind. Firstly, what was the purpose of the Captain pressing the Alt Hold? Secondly, no mention was made of the actual mode recorder by the FDR. Why was that? The button may have been pressed but it's one of the most rarely used buttons on the panel. When functioning, with a VS or 700' or I'd expect the mode to take about 100 feet or so to take effect. That clearly didn't happen. Thirdly, did the F/O flying really have such detrimental effect? That was a very stable approach. Lastly, I saw no analysis of their failure to go around. I wonder why?