Flap Retraction Discussion

[mutt]

Some of you might find this discussion interesting....

http://www.pprune.org/biz-jets-ag-flying-ga-etc/500603-flap-retraction.html

Kinda reminds me of Tech Forum in olden days :)

Mutt

[Capt Fathom]

After 9 pages of debate, these guys are still trying to retract the flaps! How long is the rest of the flight going to take? :E

[tommoutrie]

not me chap - I got them whipped up straight after take off!

I realise the whole thread seems pedantic but you don't see the utter rubbish written into operators partB's where a basic lack of understand means that pilots are forced to do things that dont make sense. I've been on the phone this evening to Flight Safety to a performance specialist and he completely agrees with me. His point was that the 400 foot call happens to be co-incidental with where V2+20 is so why am I bothered? There is no regulation - these guys keep telling me there is and there just plain isnt. I'm bothered about the generic correctness of it all and hate rules for rules sake. I'll get bored of it soon, don't worry.

If you have anything to add to it please wade in - if I'm wrong I'd love to hear why and I really mean that!

[HazelNuts39]

Hi tommoutrie,

I've nothing against your reasoning from a strict performance point of view, except that what has become a habit in day-to-day operations may affect your actions under stress in the unlikely event that you do have an engine failure at V1. From that point of view it may not be a bad idea to maintain flap and thrust setting until at least 400 ft.

I've joined this forum because I was interested in the causes of the AF447 tragedy. It is still mystery why that pilot pulled the airplane into a stall, but one plausible scenario is that under stress he applied a procedure that he was taught in training.

[tommoutrie]

with the AF447 it would be more interesting to go right back to the handling pilots basic training and first flying lessons. Primacy - what you learn first - in flying is a very powerful tool. The gliding world became very aware of this and for that reason stalling is taught very early on to glider pilots. The theory seems to be that its not safe for a pilot to be programmed to believe the nose goes up and you climb when the stick goes back.

I think its pretty likely that the building blocks for that bit of motor programming in that particular pilot were laid right at the very start of his flying. Who really knows..

[grounded27]

Human error, we error in questioning the pilots judgement, he screwed up! Pitch and power in a question of air data, especially in the flight environment he was in!