SE QLD storms and why we evacuate the tarmac

[ampclamp]

http://www.abc.net.au/news/image/4377684-3x2-940x627.jpg

[ampclamp]

The photo was lifted from South-east Qld warned more storms to come - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation) (http://www.abc.net.au/news/2012-11-18/south-east-qld-warned-of-more-storms-to-come/4377954)

[Ejector]

strange it hit the horizontal stab and not the tail fin ???

[duncan_g]

Did it actually hit the aircraft? It looked to me as though it hit the ground some way behind the aircraft, and just gave the impression of actually hitting the aircraft :confused:

[ampclamp]

Hi Duncan, It looks like it is beyond the tail, hard to tell, but it is a good reminder to get off the tarmac when storms are anywhere nearby.

Maybe some of our Air NZ ppruners would know if it took a hit?

ninja edit. NZ Herald is reporting it did not hit.

[Nose wheel first]

Must have been a shocking experience for anyone on board. :E:E:}

[Capt Kremin]

ANZ reporting that it hit the ground behind the aircraft. Aircraft unaffected.

[rudderless1]

It seems to stop all of a sudden at the hori stab!!??
Might be a MOD aircraft turnaround.

[Aye Ess]

WOW...just as well the aircraft wasn't ten seconds late.

[WMUOSF]

I was standing on ground right of aircraft facing.
The lightning hit the ground well to the rear of the aircraft.
The angle of the shot gives the wrong impression, just as well.

[Ultralights]

it was some way behind the aircraft, eitehr that, or it is the least light emitting lightning strike i have ever seen.. if it hit the aircraft, im sure the aircraft and surrounding area would be lit up brighter than daylight.

[Transition Layer]

Looks like Brissy is copping another hammering today!


http://www.bom.gov.au/radar/IDR663.gif?20121118092042

[Kiwiconehead]

Yes, talking to my aunt and uncle in Indooroopilly, big hail, not as big as the tennis ball size reported at Toowong.

Glad I'm freezing my ass off in Melbourne.

[EW73]

If it HAD hit the aircraft, it would have continued to ground somewhere, usually via the tyres or the gear earthing strips.
Where the maximum damage is usually done!!

I live in the northern suburbs and there were many quite violent thunderstorms pass overhead, had around 65mm of rain and upwards of 100kph/63mph winds at times, thankfully no hail, over the entire weekend!

EW73

[Nepotisim]

I hate to say it but the 747 / 767 and a few others don't have earthing straps fitted to the gear like a few people seem to think.

Bonding leads are generally not connected during a transit except whilst refuelling is taking place:ok:

[Gangnamstyle]

Are all these electric storms common in Queensland or fairly recent phenomena due to climate change? I am not familiar with weather in the Australian region.

[ampclamp]

380 driver, in Sydney 10 nm warning white lights and blue lights for 5 nm for evac. It is imho good OH&S although It aint perfect. Cant speak for any other ports.

A former work colleague was hit some years ago close to, or attached to a 767. Very lucky to survive. Buggered his nervous system and could not work last I heard.

[tourismman]

Electric storms in Brissie are common event every year from mid Oct to Mid March .Some years can be worse than others.The Gap storm 4 years ago was a very destructive storm but there have been plenty of others.

[Capn Bloggs]

Zap!

KrRzQbNMfW4

[Oceania1]

Isn't it best to be safe than sorry and wait a bit longer to be sure.

I know from my perspective (Ramp OOL) we have had days where we have had clearance to go back on and within seconds a lightning bolt has hit the runway or tarmac very close by. On Saturday we were off/on/off a few times in the morning.

No-one can predict what is ahead and the only thing that you see on radar screens is what has happened and I have seen bolts come from clear blue sky so unless we are absolutely sure and we get clearance everyone else can wait and if you don't like it then we are sorry but we have families as well and they expect us to come home from work at the end of the shift.

[hewlett]

"Bolt from the blue", thats why science is used to help make the decisions.Google it. Frustrating for those wanting to get back to work also, but the risks are real.

[Oakape]

A quote from a lightning awareness doucument -

'Unlike the far more common "negative" lightning, positive lightning occurs when a positive charge is carried by the top of the clouds (generally anvil clouds) rather than the ground. Generally, this causes the leader arc to form in the anvil of the cumulonimbus and travel horizontally for several miles before veering down to meet the negatively charged streamer rising from the ground. The bolt can strike anywhere within several miles of the anvil of the thunderstorm, often in areas experiencing clear or only slightly cloudy skies; they are also known as "bolts from the blue" for this reason. Positive lightning makes up less than 5% of all lightning strikes.'

Also -

http://www.nws.noaa.gov/os/lightning/resources/lightning-safety.pdf

Two excerpts from the document -

'Lightning often strikes outside the area of heavy rain and may strike as far as 10 miles from any rainfall.'

'Some people were struck because they went back outside too soon. Stay inside a safe building or vehicle for at least 30 minutes after you hear the last thunder clap.'

I have witnessed a lightning strike approximately 10 miles ahead of a storm. It was a very fine bolt that hit the ground just over the back fence. I shot inside as fast as I could move! There was no thunder associated with the bolt & no cloud in the sky except for the storm clouds in the distance. I could hear thunder from the distant storm. This is possibly why people get struck on golf courses & the beach. They think that the storm is too far away to be a problem.

[Oceania1]

30 mins stuck in the aircraft with pax.............big deal
We had one day where they waited as long as the flight had just taken but at least everyone walked off safely and went home at the end of the day.

I would rather wait and be alive at the end of my shift and so would my family so even though your pax might be getting annoyed it is also their safety we care about.
Are you going to explain to the coroner why people were allowed to walk on tarmac and got killed by a lightning strike.

Safety before schedule and patience from the crew is appreciated and remember we are all trying to achieve the same thing so hassling us won't hasten the decision.

[Ejector]

I was standing on ground right of aircraft facing.
The lightning hit the ground well to the rear of the aircraft.
The angle of the shot gives the wrong impression, just as well.

What would happen to it if it was hit when on the ground?

[lurker999]

see Bloggs post above and press play. wait for the slow mo and stop motion shots for for answer

[ampclamp]

Thanks to bloggs and lurker.
Now imagine being plugged into a headset where the hit grounded on the RHS of the nose. :eek:

[Jabawocky]

Are all these electric storms common in Queensland or fairly recent phenomena due to climate change? I am not familiar with weather in the Australian region.

NO!!!

They have been like this since long before the AGW idiots got into the media. In fact it is only recently that the weather is more like it was 40+ years ago.

People have very short memories ......Go figure!

[Pith Helmet]

I have personally witnessed 'operator pressure including threats' to ramp staff who leave the tarmac during operational shutdown periods. This would never have occurred a few year ago. It is a joke how much pressure and intimidation is being placed on staff.
I would like to see executive management stood on the tarmac while lightning strikes around them.

[Eastwest Loco]

Oakape - In the last fortnight players at the Thirlstane Golf Club near Devonport Tassie were singed by lightning and a few needed medical attention and lost facial hair, which some of the ladies were pleased about.

I will personally admit to being stupid enough to continue working through turnarounds during electrical storms.

Older and allegedly wiser, I acknowledge it was running with scissors. Dumb!

If you are on a golf course during a particularly violent thunderstorm the safest thing you can do is to stand at the highest point on the course and hold a one iron above your head.

Rationalle?

Even God can't hit a one iron:E

Best all

EWL

[gaunty]

Loco

Good one, great to see you are still around.

[Kiwiconehead]

It's very tempting to just duck out on the tarmac and wave an aircraft on the gate, or start one up.

But I remember the day at high school when a bunch of guys got hit while sheltering under a tree in the quad.

http://www.wintec.ac.nz/mediaarts/students/work/journalism/files/Thankfully.pdf

[AEROMEDIC]

For some geological reason, some areas are subject to lightning strikes more than others. Singapore's Seleta airport is one of them.
At times of thunderstorms, they close the hangar doors and discourage staff from going outside. Not just because of the rainstorms, but mainly due to lightning strikes. I was there when several lightning strikes occurred and staff told me that it was common. A bit unnerving if you are near the hangar door.
A month later, it was also unnerving to have a rainstorm occurring on approach to Seleta after that.

I guess we all have our "war stories"

[SIUYA]

EWL said:

In the last fortnight players at the Thirlstane Golf Club near Devonport Tassie were singed by lightning and a few needed medical attention and lost facial hair, which some of the ladies were pleased about.


Was it the ladies who lost their facial hair? I'll bet the ladies partners were pleased about that! :}

[Eastwest Loco]

Saved a bucketload for the hubbies SIUYA. I did elude to facial hair loss - and it was on ladies.

No industrial equipment needed in the next visit to the alleged beauty parlour/panel shop.

I shouldn't be so mean though. The members who play Thirlstane are a lovely bunch and it is a great 9 hole course with some challenging holes.

One doesn't mess with electrical storms - this one gave no notice and grounded right there as a 1st port of call.

That is why we must be very wary, but that 1st zap can't be predicted.

Hiya Gaunty

Best all

EWL

[QF22]

Changi Airport and for that matter to whole of Singapore is lightning prone.
And no the tarmac at Changi never closes for lightning or anything else for that matter. Life is cheap, slavery is alive and well !
GLTA !

[my oleo is extended]

A quote from a lightning awareness doucument -

'Unlike the far more common "negative" lightning, positive lightning occurs when a positive charge is carried by the top of the clouds (generally anvil clouds) rather than the ground. Generally, this causes the leader arc to form in the anvil of the cumulonimbus and travel horizontally for several miles before veering down to meet the negatively charged streamer rising from the ground. The bolt can strike anywhere within several miles of the anvil of the thunderstorm, often in areas experiencing clear or only slightly cloudy skies; they are also known as "bolts from the blue" for this reason. Positive lightning makes up less than 5% of all lightning strikes.'Absolutely. One bolt that dropped from a storm Anvil hit an object over 20 km's away. It is rare but in that instance the strike zone was in an area where not a single cloud was present.

Changi Airport and for that matter to whole of Singapore is lightning prone.And no the tarmac at Changi never closes for lightning or anything else for that matter. Life is cheap, slavery is alive and well !GLTA !
Almost as cheap as in Vietnam! Could tell you some ramp stories that would have the OHS zealots soiling themseves. Lives and limbs are very very cheap.

One of the issues also surrounding ramp shutdowns is for example this - If you are a QF rampie in say Brisbane, all weather 'calls' are made by Ops in SYD. The storm lights and sirens in BNE are activated by the BNE Ops guys, but permission to activate them has to come from SYD. They, in SYD, are monitoring a weather radar loop that is around 20 minutes behind real time. So when they see a storm cell with lightning strikes 20km west of the BNE airport, and it is travelling at 40 km/h the storm could in fact already be dropping bolts onto the airfield. I have observed this personally.
So in reality the system is flawed.

[Keg]

I thought BAC took care of the strobes in BNE these days? One out, all out?!?!? Same as in Sydney. When the lights are on, they're on all over the airfield.

This is different to Perth where quite famously a year or so ago QF ended up with the ramp clear- and legitimately due to multiple lightening strikes on the airfield- whilst the virgin ramp kept turning them around. QF had delays of aircraft on the ground of up to 8 hours. Word from the QF ops people in PER is that at one stage the VOZ ground handlers ventured back out (QF still off) only for a lightening strike in close proximity. They scurried back inside quick smart, waited 5 minutes and then were out again.

However, as you say oleo, the call was being made from Sydney on advice and live feed from PER BOM. The stupid thing was that PER had told Sydney multiple times to stop sending aircraft across to Perth due to the backlog but they didn't fully appreciate what was going on until about the four or five hour mark. By then it was all too late.