Reporting localiser established (Nov 12)

[DB6]

Every now and then I have a good old hack at CAP 413 and update a document I have written for our training department to improve my airline's R/T.
I am aware of the recent changes in phraseology regarding ILS intercept, however there remains the feeling that we should call when localiser extablished, as a prompt to the controller if nothing else. The latest amendment of CAP 413 (2) offers the following:

1.6.8 When it is judged that this will aid situational awareness, controllers may request
aircraft to report established on the localiser. Notwithstanding its use for situational
awareness, it should be used where the clearance to establish on the localiser is not
implicit within the phraseology used.

Two questions:
1) What the f**k does that mean?
2) Do you still expect a 'localiser established' call when you have cleared us for the ILS?

[Glamdring]

Your guess is as good as mine regarding the first question.

Personally, If I want you to report established I will ask you to report established. Otherwise just fly the approach, I have a fancy radar screen that does a pretty good job of showing me when you are established :ok:

*EDIT: Thinking about the first question it may mean that we should ask you to report established on the LOC if we want you to establish on the LOC but not to descend with the glide. Just a thought.

[RustyNail]

In the places I've worked it depends on how you get onto the LLZ.

If there is a fix positioned on final approach that an A/C can navigate to I just use "Cleared ILS approach RWY 23", I don't need a call established LLZ as I dont really care about the horizonatal positioning of the A/C, as the fix is already within the LLZ capture area.

If I am radar vectoring an A/C onto final approach then I am responsible for terrain clearance (normally radar terrain map) until the A/C resumes their own navigation.

Once I give a closing heading to intercept the LLZ I ask for a report "established LLZ". This indicates to me that naviagation (and therefore terrain) for the A/C has now passed back to the pilot ("Turn left heading 200, intercept the localizer, report established"). Once the pilot reports LLZ established and therefore back on their own navigation I use "Cleared ILS RWY23" for the vertical component of the approach.

I suspect you will get 500 answers from different parts of the world but this is the norm where I have worked, now and previously.

[2 sheds]

Interesting that ICAO specifies...
An aircraft vectored to intercept a pilot-interpreted final approach aid shall be instructed to report when established on the final approach track....but the UK :ugh: says...
Controllers may instruct the pilot to report established on the localiser where it is judged that it will aid situational awareness.

As RustyNail says, if for example the descent clearance cannot yet be given, the closing heading plus the instruction to report established on the localizer directly implies that the aircraft may establish. Until that is specified, then the heading should be continued, if necessary through the LOC (although that manoeuvre should, of course, have been specified).

2 s

[HEATHROW DIRECTOR]

Place I worked back in the days of Pontius Pilot we were required to confirm the aircraft was established on the ILS before transferring it to the tower. Probably changed now..

[eastern wiseguy]

Place I worked back in the days of Pontius Pilot we were required to confirm the aircraft was established on the ILS before transferring it to the tower. Probably changed now..

I agree...if nothing else an established call reminds ME to tell YOU to contact the tower:)

[DB6]

Thanks for the replies.
On balance we'll probably keep saying it - especially if we're still with approach at 4 miles.

[mebur_verce]

Place I worked back in the days of Pontius Pilot we were required to confirm the aircraft was established on the ILS before transferring it to the tower. Probably changed now..

Hasn't changed in Italy, anyway.