View Full Version : Are Poppies Banned by CX ?
The Old Geezer (or his S/O son) have not seen any CX flight deck crew in uniform wearing Remembrance Poppies this November.
Is it true that company policy no longer allows their display ?
No, but I haven't seen any for sale.:confused:
rick.shaw
5th Nov 2012, 17:19
I think you will find they are available in the respective fleet offices.
As for not being able to wear them, I don't know, but I would be very surprised if that were the case. I wore mine the other day at work and no poppie police accosted me.
cxorcist
5th Nov 2012, 21:07
I flew with an SO the other day wearing one.
Even our newest GM, PH, had one on. I heard he was an excellent sergeant in the army. Quite a leap from Sergeant to Swire. No wonder he hates pilots. They represent all those pesky officers he used to take orders from. Too bad he wasn't in the RAF, surely some of our pilots would have known him.
On a related note, perhaps someone should bring to the COO's attention that our beloved GMA is not keeping duty travel to a minimum, which was one of the stated cost reduction measures in his latest weekly telex. I had a good chuckle when I read that.
Thanks PH, my roster got notably better and it is costing the company more money. Perhaps the iron fist isn't always the best way to manage.
Are you guys serious,of course you can wear one
No snags at all..I've been proudly wearing mine as I have for years. You can get them in most of the clubs..KCC, RHKYC, Hebe HKFC and many pubs including Queen VIC, Old China hand, Globe etc...
Yes even saw some Indonesian ladies wearing their Poppies (but little else) in Queen Vic last Sunday
D-ENIM
6th Nov 2012, 15:24
No reason to wear poppies.
D-ENIM,
No reason to wear poppies.
Oh, D-ENIM, you ARE a card :)
If I infer correctly from your nom-de-Prune, don't forget that a lot of your chaps went down too and we can also remember their loss.
D-ENIM
6th Nov 2012, 16:03
We too commemorate the loss of all victims of war. We just do it without the poppies. Like it or not, the poppy is broadly seen as a symbol of British militarism in various ex-colonies, and I reject it for that reason.
Being based in Hong Kong (China) and employing staff from so many countries around the world, I don't see any reason for CX to allow the wearing of poppies anymore than we should allow any other symbolism that might offend.
That said, you clearly have every right to wear your poppy. You just don't have the right to force it down my throat or wave it in my face at work.
FERetd
6th Nov 2012, 16:26
Get over it, DENIM.
http://i226.photobucket.com/albums/dd16/SDGsteve/Poppy-1.jpg
Shytehawk
6th Nov 2012, 20:44
D-ENIM
I don't remember your countrymen holding back from waving swastikas in other peoples faces throughout Europe not so many years ago. If it were not for those we remember by wearing poppies, then would now, all be wearing swastikas. Nobody is waving the poppy in your face. It is worn as a mark of respect for those who died to give us the freedoms we enjoy to-day
BuzzBox
6th Nov 2012, 23:23
Symbol of British militarism in various ex-colonies
I seem to recall that so-called "British militarism" helped save the world from the atrocities committed by various Axis powers during WW2. Or have I got that wrong?
Gnadenburg
7th Nov 2012, 01:44
"Seen as a symbol of British militarism in several ex-Colonies"
From Don Tow's blog. From what I've read, this is a pretty gentle description of what went on in Hong Kong. Some historians refer to the occupation as the "Little Nanking".
Massacre and Atrocities in Hong Kong during WWII
April 2007 6 Comments
Hong Kong was a British colony before and after WWII, but from 12/25/1941 to 8/15/1945 when Japan surrendered, Hong Kong was under the control of Japan. This article recounts the massacre and atrocities committed by the Japanese troops during those three years and eight months of occupation of Hong Kong. The purpose of recounting these events is not to bash Japan or to generate hatred of Japan, but to make sure that we do not forget the lessons of history so that similar events do not occur again in the future. This is especially important taking into consideration that Japan’s current prime minister recently denied any major atrocity committed by Japan during WWII and Japan’s school textbooks have been rewriting history.
Japan started its invasion of Hong Kong on 12/8/1941 (or 12/7/1941 U.S. time, the same day Japan attacked Pearl Harbor). Great Britain surrendered Hong Kong to Japan on Christmas day, 12/25/1941, on a day that the people of Hong Kong called Black Christmas.
Although what happened in Hong Kong during this period pales in comparison to what happened during the 1937-38 Nanking Massacre, a great deal of massacre and atrocities were committed by the Japanese soldiers against the Chinese, British, Canadians, and other people living in Hong Kong at that time.
As many as 10,000 women were raped in the first few days. Tens of thousands, including women and children, were killed. Many more starved to death. Many parts of Hong Kong were ransacked and burned, and many residents left, deported, or escaped to even famine/disease-ridden areas of mainland China. Basically a reign of terror ruled Hong Kong during those three years and eight months, resulting in Hong Kong’s population of 1.6 million shrinking to 600,000 at the end of that period.
The atrocities were not just against the Chinese, but also British, Canadians, and people of other nationalities. For example, at a hospital for injured British soldiers, the Japanese soldiers slaughtered 170 recuperating soldiers and a few hospital staff. The eyes, ears, noses, tongues, or limbs were cut off on many victims. Seventy of the soldiers were killed with swords while they were lying in bed. The hospital’s seven nurses were raped, sometimes while lying on top of the bodies of murdered British soldiers. Several of the nurses were also slaughtered, and one of them almost had her head severed. All these actions were in complete violation of the 1864 Geneva Red Cross Agreement (which was the beginning of the establishment of the International Red Cross) regarding the treatment of prisoners-of-war.
After 18 days of fighting and bombing and the British surrendered on 12/25/1941, many people came out of hiding in the bomb shelters. Upon seeing many mean-looking Japanese solders with guns pointing at them, some ran either out of fear or not being able to understand the Japanese command to stop, they were shot dead on the spot. Some children cried and before the parents could stop their crying, the children were shot and killed.
Some of the atrocities even continued after Japan surrendered on 8/15/1945. For example, during 8/16-26/1945, a small garrison of Japanese soldiers in Silver Ore Bay in Lantau Island (where the new Hong Kong international airport is currently located) went berserk and slaughtered, robbed, and burned almost everything in sight, thus almost obliterated several small villages in this bay.
Many innocent people were also killed due to arbitrary and unjustly enforcement of curfews and other rules. For example, one time an eight-year old son, upon seeing his mother and a younger sibling coming home, ran across the street to meet them. All three were shot and killed due to a curfew forbidding crossing of that street. Often the rules were purposely left ambiguous or not well publicized, so that the Japanese soldiers could impose severe punishments, including killing, upon the violators.
While facing this reign of terror, many people also performed heroic acts. For example, in a hotel at Shallow Water Bay, Japanese soldiers found several seriously injured British soldiers and planned to kill them. A foreign nurse stepped in front and said if you want to kill them, you have to kill me first. On that occasion, the Japanese soldiers retreated. Dr. Hu, a doctor and head of a public hospital, out of his own pocket provided food and medicine to many orphans, and also provided free medical treatments to these orphans. Without his help, many of these orphans would have starved to death. There was also a British underground organization in southern China, called B.A.A.G., which helped over 600 alliance (including British and Canadian) soldiers escaped to safe territories, and over 120 Europeans and 550 Chinese escaped from Japanese controlled territories in Hong Kong and China.
Instead of learning from history to avoid repeating this kind of massacre and atrocities, unfortunately the Japanese government is in denial of their existence. They publicly proclaim that these events were fabricated in spite of so many eyewitness accounts, and they have been rewriting history in their school textbooks. Their senior government leaders also pay regular homage to the Japanese shrine where many of the war criminals were buried.
It is important for peace-loving people of the world to remember the following quotes:
“Those who cannot learn from history are doomed to repeat it” – 19th/20th century American/Spanish philosopher George Santayana
“All that is needed for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing” – 18th century Anglo-Irish statesman and philosopher Edmund Burke
burgerbun
7th Nov 2012, 03:55
I'll buy a poppy and wear it with pride as soon as I can, to honnor those young men who gave up their lives for our freedom... but at the time, I'm not pointing fingers to my german collegues which had nothing to do with it all... peace all...:)
D-ENIM
7th Nov 2012, 08:35
Your xenophobic replies are worth less than a single sheet of single ply toilet paper is to a case of diarrhea, and in my estimation, right in line with the policies proliferated by those whose demise you celebrate in your Remembrance Day commemoration.
Honoring the victims of war is clearly a noble act and one which I admire and respect. I, however, choose to honor all victims of war without the poppy. I also choose to view the poppy as a symbol of what I (and many others) believe it is: a symbol of unjust British imperialism, militarism, and oppression.
Since we are employed in a multinational corporation where many will take different views on national symbolism, it is in my opinion, best to avoid brandishing offensive insignia, such as the swastika or the poppy, at work.
Agaricus bisporus
7th Nov 2012, 09:12
Denim, your irrational and xenophobic rant about "British Imperialism" seems blithely unaware of the utterly dismal and shameful record of German Imperialism, second only to the Belgian's record for sheer awfulness.
If you troubled to look at the historical record you'd see that british "Imperialism" actually brought large sections of the world into the modern industrial age and (incidentally) in so doing saved them from the dire depredations of your lot and the Belgeeques. British Imperialism was generally a force for the good.
And just what the **** had the First World War to do with British Imperialism anyway?
I was under the impression we entered it to prevent German Imperial aggression in Europe, (just like we had to do again 20 years later) or perhaps the historical record is incorrect...
And if you think that poppies have anything to do with Imperialism you are a very sad, bitter and misguided person. I feel sorry for you.
Agaricus bisporus
7th Nov 2012, 09:20
The poppy is the symbol of a charity devoted to the care and support of war damaged people, while the swastika is the symbol of the ultimate in mankind's capacity for sheer evil.
Your comparison of the poppy with the swastika is by far the most foul, evil, digusting and utterly shameful things I've ever seen written on this forum. I am writing to the Moderators to have you banned.
Hang your head in shame.
D-ENIM,
Your xenophobic replies are worth less than a single sheet of single ply toilet paper is to a case of diarrhea
You're auditioning for the part of the Japanese kid in American Dad, or perhaps Blackadder, right? Absolutely ROTFL :p:):ok:
p.s. Troll alert.
Tableview
7th Nov 2012, 09:28
offensive insignia, such as the swastika or the poppy,
What an extraordinary comparison!
May I please save us all the time D emin you are an idiot ...
Cafe City
7th Nov 2012, 09:48
Tired of coming second D-ENIM?
http://lgsquirrel.files.wordpress.com/2011/09/eagle-on-flag-wallpapers_12095_1600x1200-1024x768.jpg
Need I say more? :E
LongTimeInCX
7th Nov 2012, 19:32
Steady on Mr HKD, if I recall, your mob was late on parade for the first and second event. We're debating British military stuff 'ere, not some Johnny come lately from a colony that was let go. (Well maybe you took it back:-) )
Ovens !! Love it, best laugh I've had in ages.
My poppy was, is, and will continue to he worn with pride out of respect and remembrance.
cxorcist
7th Nov 2012, 21:14
Funny how America is criticized today for over-projecting its power globally and hastily jumping into conflicts. Seems that in the first half of the 20th century, Americans were too slow. I guess you can't please everyone all the time...
Glass Half Empty
7th Nov 2012, 22:39
get to wear mine going through Germany on Saturday - cannot wait, might even double pin it to get a ping off the machine
Absolutely Fabulous
8th Nov 2012, 01:10
Don't be too hard on D-ENIM, he has a right to express his opinion however misplaced it may be :ooh: Afterall, ignorance is not a crime. :=
Perhaps we should all instead look forward to the day his parents get married :}
D-ENIM
8th Nov 2012, 09:44
Confused logic, brazen ignorance, ill-conceived assumption, empty threats, and xenophobic intolerance are all well illustrated in your posts above. Thank goodness you sad souls are not a true reflection of the intellectual demographic of our airline, nor of our profession!
Do any of you (stone chuckers) find it (even in the least bit) funny how you all "recall" historic events, albeit that none of you could conceivably have experienced any of your recollections? I do. And I put it to you that, sadly, it appears that all that remains of the glory of the WWII veterans and victims today, is the ignorance, intolerance, and incapacity to make amends, of their offspring.
Honor without offensive symbolism. No poppy for me, thank you.
BuzzBox
8th Nov 2012, 10:39
Do any of you (stone chuckers) find it (even in the least bit) funny how you all "recall" historic events, albeit that none of you could conceivably have experienced any of your recollections?
Lest we forget...
it is in my opinion, best to avoid brandishing offensive insignia, such as the swastika or the poppy, at work./QUOTE]
Comparing the poppy to the swastika is without doubt the most offensive thing I have seen written on this website!
D-ENIM I have no words to describe how loathsome an individual I consider you to be.
With any luck the moderators or better still an act of god will prevent you from writing your rubbish in the future.
[QUOTE]Do any of you (stone chuckers) find it (even in the least bit) funny how you all "recall" historic events, albeit that none of you could conceivably have experienced any of your recollections? I do
Although I and I suspect nobody else on the forum were there, a quick search for either images or the Wikipedia history of Auschwitz (a place synonymous with the swastika) can easily be found. Do you find peoples recollections of that event, even those people like myself who, thank god, were not there funny?
You offensive ignorant moron.
D-ENIM,
Would it help to mention that I have, to choose a couple, on occasion, stopped by the maritime memorial in Mainz and the Falklands memorial in BA to read the names thereon?
Anyhoo, we'll be attending the memorial service in Marlow this year; last year it was Manly and, if I happened to be in Germany, I'd probably go to theirs.
p.s. Better not mention the ceremony we attended on 28th June this year ;)
illusion
8th Nov 2012, 23:20
This discussion on British Imperialism would not be complete without...
YouTube (http://m.youtube.com/#/watch?v=Wb7K_KUJqoQ&desktop_uri=%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DWb7K_KUJqoQ)
:p
Taras B
8th Nov 2012, 23:34
It was the red poppies which grew over the graves of the fallen soldiers of WWI that inspired the poem, "In Flander's Fields"... in time, the Remembrance Day poppy has become the world's most recognized memorial symbol for soldiers who died in conflict.
Unlike the flags or insignia of individual nations or religions which are exclusive, the poppies simply grew over the resting places of the dead. It didn't matter what side a soldier fought for, or whether he perished with a bang, or a whimper.
If anyone can think of a more appropriate symbol to remember all fallen soldiers, I'd like to hear what it might be. If anyone is offended by the poppy, or is offended by those who choose wear one, now may be a good time to reflect on why.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P_x0M5y-EWo
White None
9th Nov 2012, 07:41
Everything that needs to be said about D-ENIM..... has been said; a misinformed, confused and incorrect individual whose use of the word Xenophobic about others should perhaps be practiced looking in a mirror.
Taras B, thanks for those words and I look forward to more.
In the meanwhile:-
Blackadder - Manfred von Richthofen - YouTube
It's humour! In my experience all members of all armed forces thrive on it. If anyone feels offended feel free to dig out some Brit-Blasting humour, or if you like, I will, happily.
Tankertrashnav
9th Nov 2012, 08:59
Further to TARAS B's post, it was in fact an American lady, a Miss Moina Michaels who worked at the YMCA HQ in New York who is generally credited with the origin of the use of the poppy as a symbol of remembrance. Apparently after reading "In Flanders Fields" she decided that from then on she would wear a poppy each year in remembrance of the dead.
So much for it being a symbol of British imperialism.
Starbear
9th Nov 2012, 14:08
Even as a Brit the words on the Gallipoli Memorial at ANZAC Cove put everything into perspective:
"Those heroes that shed their blood and lost their lives…
You are now living in the soil of a friendly country. Therefore rest in peace. There is no difference between the Johnnies and the Mehmets to us where they lie side by side here in this country of ours…
You, the mothers, who sent their sons from faraway countries wipe away your tears; your sons are now lying in our bosom and are in peace, after having lost their lives on this land they have become our sons as well."
As credited to Kemal Ataturk after he became the first President of Turkey.
Steve the Pirate
9th Nov 2012, 14:52
Thank you to the likes of Taras B and Starbear for putting the outrageous comments of both camps into some sort of perspective.
STP
Good to see Messrs Rhodes,Slosar,Hall,Pratt and others from the "best in the business team" looking suitably solemn and paying their respects at the Cenotaph at the Eleventh Hour of the Eleventh Day