Pensionable age going back up?

[Lon More]

Many countries seem to be heading towards an increase in retirement age for the general population.
We saw ours go down to 55 or thereabouts in many cases some 15 years ago.
Are any ATS providers moving towards a higher age again?

[ron83]

In some ANSP's there is no early retirement age for ATC staff whatsoever :ugh: In ours it's 62 currently and gonna rise to 65:}
I believe it's only EC directive can standardize this:cool:

[chevvron]

A certain ANSP in the UK encourages controllers to 'retire' early as they're at the top of the payscale and the company THINKS that people at the lower end of the payscale (and in all probability with far less experience) can do the job just as well and they can thereby save some money.

[Quintilian]

In Norway there is an operational limit @ 60 years....

However our ANSP has ****** up (mind my french) the staffing numbers (again) - and we now lack quite a few ATCOs... So what's their solution;
- They ask the regulator dispensation from mandatory SIM, and;
- Ask the regulator for dispensations from the operational age limit ...

:D

[anotherthing]

Chevvron,

Judging by your comment you obviously think that those at the lower end of the payscale are not as good at their job as those at the top...

So why are they valid then?

How much 'experience' does one need to be good at their job in your opinion? 5 years? 10?

The vast majority of ATCOs I know are looking forward to being able to retire at a relatively young age on a good pension. I personally feel sorry for anyone who feels that they would rather keep working... seems to me that those people must have pretty empty lives, unless of course aviation is both a job and a hobby to them...

[Dan Dare]

In the days when an interest in aviation was pre-requisite many ATCOs were being paid to further their hobbies. Then the "earn £60k with 5 O levels" recruitment started and the sole motivation of the job became money. This probably explains the difference between those who want to continue until they can't and those who can't wait to retire.

[anotherthing]

Fully understand that. Doesn't mean though that those who love aviation are any better than those who don't at the job, the same applies for top of the scale (i.e. lots of experience) versus bottom of the payscale (something inferred by Chevvron).

It is fairly widely accepted in aviation, flying and controlling, that youngsters ability to do the job is made up of having a quick and nimble brain because of age, the training they have received, which is still fresh in their minds, and then the little bit of experience they have gained as they trained.

Older people have similar levels of skill, but the experience they have gained makes up for the fact that (usually) their thought process has slowed down, and they have (obviously) not just gone through some intense training.

[10W]

A certain ANSP in the UK encourages controllers to 'retire' early as they're at the top of the payscale and the company THINKS that people at the lower end of the payscale (and in all probability with far less experience) can do the job just as well and they can thereby save some money.

And there was me thinking that it was a great scheme negotiated and fought for by the union all those years ago ?

Damn those managers and their cunning plots. They have hoodwinked us again in to giving up work early and going out and living life while we still can, rather than hanging on trying to do radar in our dottage and thinking we are better than those 30 year old plus monkeys with still at least 20 years or more to work.

They've done us up like kippers, haven't they ? :eek:

[Dan Dare]

10W

:ok: Like

[octavian]

Anotherthing wrote:

It is fairly widely accepted in aviation, flying and controlling, that youngsters ability to do the job is made up of having a quick and nimble brain because of age, the training they have received, which is still fresh in their minds, and then the little bit of experience they have gained as they trained.

Older people have similar levels of skill, but the experience they have gained makes up for the fact that (usually) their thought process has slowed down, and they have (obviously) not just gone through some intense training.

Is that the same as;

Old age and treachery will always triumph over youth and skill?

[chevvron]

Oh dear, Anotherthing seems to have incurred a sense of humour failure; doesn't seem to twig I was having a go at management/HR and not coalface workers.

[anotherthing]

Chevvron,

Your humour mustn't translate very well into written word - what is there to have a go at management for in the statement you made (below)?


A certain ANSP in the UK encourages controllers to 'retire' early as they're at the top of the payscale and the company THINKS that people at the lower end of the payscale (and in all probability with far less experience) can do the job just as well and they can thereby save some money.
The way you have written it, it reads that you do not agree people at the lower end of the payscale can do the job as well...

NATS does not encourage people to retire early in the manner you infer... they go because they can. There's a fair few at TC who have drawn down their pension and are still working. Funny old thing though.. most of those by their own admission can't work the busier sectors...

You personally may have a beef with them, but cases are looked at on an individual basis. Not saying the company will always get it right, but there is no policy that you hint at.

[chevvron]

Only today I spoke to someone who has been given an offer he 'can't refuse'; a lump sum payment (he didn't say how much) in addition to pension.
Oh no, NATS doesn't encourage people to retire, but I know of one who elected to go early as he had accrued 40 years pensionable service, then the HR Director pulled the rug from under him by withdrawing the 40 years service agreement 5 weeks before he went!