iPad (3rd gen) mount - Cessna 172

[CruiseAttitude]

I am going to buy a 3rd gen iPad and I would also like to use it as a GPS when flying. Any ideas of the best way to mount it?

I fly a Cessna 172 and this is a flying group a/c, so a non-permanent mounting solution will be required.

I have seen a knee strap mount, however I feel this may interfere with full and free control movement when the seat is forward and might be cramped in a small 172? At the same time I would like to avoid blocking out too much of the window.

Any advice will be appreciated. Apologies if this has been covered before.

Thank you.

[englishal]

We have just had some avionics work done and at the same time we shifted a lot of the gear on the right side of the panel to make space to mount an Ipad flat ON the panel - you can buy a clip in mount which you can attach to the panel. I saw a TB20 with this solution whereby the RHS of the panel was an ipad and it was a really nice solution (so we're copying it). I don't know how this would work with your panel though.

An ipad is too big to put on a knee board in my opinion and would just get in the way. I did wonder whether you could mount one as a sun visor :)

[dublinpilot]

I get the impression that most people just leave them on their lap, and move them around as needed.

[CruiseAttitude]

Thanks for the replies, I think I might just use it without mounting then - like a chart.

I was also wondering, does the GPS rcvr work when the iPad is in 'airplane mode' i.e. cellular transmitter disabled?

[maxred]

iPad 3 Mount (http://www.rammount.com/NewProducts/ipad3mount/tabid/4206/Default.aspx)

I have one of these and works perfectly. I mount it on side window, facing in, at angle, and no issues.

The RAM mounts are very strong. I also have an external XG150 which, in conjunction with the I 3, has not failed.

[dublinpilot]

No the GPS doesn't work in airplane mode. You don't need any SIM card in the iPad but it must not be in airplane mode.

[ianwild]

Rumour has it (us Apple fanboys love our rumours) that the iPad Mini will be launched on November the 2nd, if not sooner.

In my mind, that will be the perfect size (7.5 Inches perhaps) for a portable avionics display, and it will certainly be a lot more convenient to temporarily mount (loving the Sun Visor suggestion).

Ian

[Katamarino]

I looked at approach plates on both a 7" and 10" Galaxy tablet. The 7" was, to me, a bit small to clearly read at a glance.

[CruiseAttitude]

Thank you everyone. I always switch my iPhone to 'airplane mode' or switch off when I fly and also always ask passengers to do the same. I wonder why the iPad GPS does not work offline?

If it is assisted GPS surely that won't be any good at altitude because you would not get much of a signal (if any) anyway.

A 7.5" iPad would certainly be much better for the cockpit. I might wait a month or so and see what Apple release.

[stevelup]

I wonder why the iPad GPS does not work offline?

The GPS processor is built into the same chipset as the cellular radios. When you put the iPad in airplane mode, that chip gets powered off.

[CruiseAttitude]

So I guess using an iPad GPS in flight is just the same as having a mobile phone on? I'm surprised Apple have not thought about this, especially given how popular the iPad has been with pilots.

Does this chipset design cause any problems for use on aircraft?

Thanks

[stevelup]

You have several options including but not limited to:-

1) Ignore it - as long as you keep your headset cables clear of the iPad, very little interference occurs anyway
2) Pop the SIM out - that stops that radio attempting to call home so often (it still does it every now and then, but isn't obtrusive)
3) Use airplane mode and an external bluetooth GPS

[peterh337]

My experience with the Ipad2/3G is that the GPS inside it is crap.

Also the unit is near-useless for continuous in-flight navigation because you only have to accidentally touch the touch screen (which cannot be disabled, short of jailbreaking the unit and having a custom prog written which throws away the touch screen event messages) and the damn thing goes away to do something you were not expecting.

Also the Ipad is too big to yoke mount (in most planes) without blanking out something important behind it.

I would get a dedicated aviation GPS, but the bigger ones (e.g. the 695) are still too big to yoke mount in most cases IMHO.

[stevelup]

Also the unit is near-useless for continuous in-flight navigation because you only have to accidentally touch the touch screen (which cannot be disabled, short of jailbreaking the unit and having a custom prog written which throws away the touch screen event messages) and the damn thing goes away to do something you were not expecting.

That, surely, is entirely the responsibility of the app developer?

[peterh337]

I don't think you can implement that in the app - can you?

Would you be allowed to develop an app which has a "disable screen totally" feature, and still be allowed in the apple app shop?

[stevelup]

I'm not talking about an app to disable screen input, I'm saying that an aviation app should have a mechanism for disregarding unwanted interaction.

It would be possible to completely ignore all screen input on an app unless you make a specific gesture or swipe something to unlock.

[piperarcher]

I have looked into the options in my PA28-181 and I also think that mounting it to the yoke hides instruments or switches you really want to be able to see. I dont personally want to mount it onto any of the windows either because it blocks out a large area from which an aircraft might be coming.

For me, I just use it on my lap. I use a panel mounted GPS as my main unit. I do however put the iPAd away for take off's and landing, otherwise you end up with a small collection of charts, kneeboard and iPad on your lap, and you cant move the yoke fully.

I also concur with the touching the screen problem. If you take SkyDemon for example, you might want to touch the screen to get airfield info, or adjust a route in the air, but I wish there was a button to 'lock' the screen when you dont want to make an input. A few times I have inadvertently moved the track or the plane symbol or something. I'm sure I have seen apps that do allow the iPad to disable screen input - though I cant recall what app that might have been.

[stevelup]

You can't accidentally move the track or the plane on SkyDemon when in navigation mode. The worst thing you can do is scroll the map, and it jumps back to the current location after a few seconds anyway.

[piperarcher]

You can't accidentally move the track or the plane on SkyDemon when in navigation mode

You can. I just did a few seconds ago. I have pre-loaded route and with a swipe of a finger I was able to move one of my legs to a waypoint wherever I want to (or didnt want to as the case may be). Unlike the planning screen, you cant 'Undo' it.

I'm not saying it's not a useful feature if you plan to divert or change a planned leg in the air, but some kind of lock feature would be useful to prevent this kind of thing happening unplanned on SkyDemon, or any of the iPad based GPS apps.

[stevelup]

Sorry, you are quite correct.

[PH-UKU]

Got an ipad2 with internal gps, no simcard installed. Works brilliant on a RAM yoke mount on RHS. Battery lasts about 8hrs. Been to France and Norway using skydemon - amazing. Dropped signal twice, in 45hrs of flying, once passing military location in Norway, and then 20minutes from home (Prestwick). In comparison the panelmount Lowrance 2000c with external aerial dropped signal about 20 times in same trips.)

Some folk have gps problems, i have had none and think it is absolutely brilliant.:ok:

[CruiseAttitude]

Hi again everyone,

After playing with the iPad 3 at my local Apple store I decided to take one home. I've installed SkyDemon on it, I had been using this on a Windows PDA up until now.

I understand that the 'airplane mode' disables the GPS, however would just disabling mobile data (under settings) turn off the GSM radio and still allow the GPS to function?

I've just tried this and SkyDemon maintained a position fix, I made sure wifi was also off as I know that can also be used by the iPad for location information. I might be missing something here though.

NB: When mobile data is disabled, where the network operator name usually appears in the top left is replaced with 'iPad'. So I imagine that it is not connected to the network at all.

Thanks

Ps, thanks for the recommendations of the RAM mounts, I will have a look.

[peterh337]

Dropped signal twice, in 45hrs of flying, once passing military location in Norway, and then 20minutes from home (Prestwick). In comparison the panelmount Lowrance 2000c with external aerial dropped signal about 20 times in same trips.)

Some folk have gps problems, i have had none

[my bold]

Not sure I follow you. You currently haven't got a single GPS that's working to an acceptable standard for navigation.

I've had 2 or 3 losses in 1500hrs, which is more like it should be.

I wonder if you have the fairly common VHF interference issue (harmonics of 121.2 and surrounding)? See here (http://www.faa.gov/documentLibrary/media/Advisory_Circular/AC%2020-138C.pdf), page 118 of the PDF.

[CruiseAttitude]

Hi again guys,

I've been reviewing iPad mounting solutions and it came down to either a RAM glare shield mount (seemingly only avail from the USA) or a RAM yoke mount (available from pilot shops in the UK).

I think I'm going to go for the yoke option and mount it on the co-pilot side and angle it towards P1. just wondering if anyone who has done this can give me any feedback about this setup. I fly a C172P.

Also, just to confirm that the iPad GPS seems to work perfectly with mobile data set to off and that also seems to disable the GSM radio - no need to take sim out. I've been testing in the car. Looking forward to trying it out in the air once I get the mount..

Thanks again

[BackPacker]

Also, just to confirm that the iPad GPS seems to work perfectly with mobile data set to off and that also seems to disable the GSM radio - no need to take sim out. I've been testing in the car. Looking forward to trying it out in the air once I get the mount..

Yep. Same here. I have a prepaid sim which I rarely use (prefer Wifi instead) and I normally have the cellular connection turned off. No problem in flight whatsoever. For better battery life I guess I should turn off Wifi too, but I typically don't bother. (So far I still need to find an application for Bluetooth, so that is turned off permanently anyway.)

I get the impression that most people just leave them on their lap, and move them around as needed.

I don't use any sort of mount since I rent aircraft, and rent various types so no single solution would work. I just keep it in my lap, but I bought a Kensington Black Belt for it. A thick rubber ring that goes around the edges, leaving the buttons free to access. The GPS doesn't seem to be bothered by it, and I have the feeling that this will greatly reduce the chances of damaging the iPad. I have also put on one of those clear plastic screen protectors. You never know what might scratch the glass.

Of course if you put the iPad between seats or some other shielded location, expect loss of GPS lock.

some kind of lock feature would be useful

I posted the same complaint to the Skydemon forums and the response was that the lock is already in place, but is only actived in Flying mode, after a few seconds, and when movement is detected. Or something to that effect. So a quick test at home would not give you the definitive answer.

I have not flown with SD since I got that response so I have not verified the exact behaviour, but there is some form of lock at the very least.

Nevertheless, better safe than sorry. So I try to minimize accidental touching of the screen.

[BabyBear]

Quote:
some kind of lock feature would be useful
I posted the same complaint to the Skydemon forums and the response was that the lock is already in place, but is only actived in Flying mode, after a few seconds, and when movement is detected. Or something to that effect. So a quick test at home would not give you the definitive answer.

I have not flown with SD since I got that response so I have not verified the exact behaviour, but there is some form of lock at the very least.

Nevertheless, better safe than sorry. So I try to minimize accidental touching of the screen.

I can confirm this to be the case. I tried changing the route I was flying last week and couldn't without taking it out of navigation mode!

BB

[n5296s]

It took me a while to figure out what works best. I wrote something about it, search for "ipad happiness at last" (since the idiot pprun3 naz1s won't allow the actual url).

Basically I use a modified (extended) RAM mount, which holds the ipad in front of the yoke where it doesn't obscure anything. It's a compromise - life is full of them. I use the mygoflight holder, which can also be strapped to one knee.

The touch sensitivity of the thing is a nuisance, you will indeed every now and then find yourself looking at it and thinking "why is it showing THAT?". Just something you have to get used to.

I find that the built in GPS works fine in level flight. In steep banks it often doesn't, no practical impact except the CloudAhoy track looks funny. I also noticed on a long descent the other day that it lost GPS for a minute or two. If any of this bothers you, you can get an external GPS for around $100.

I don't really know why you would bother with airplane mode, but if you do worry about these things then I guess an external GPS might solve the problem (though it might also get switched off in airplane mode, I have no idea). The idea after all is that even radio receivers generate RF which might affect our oh-so-delicate navigation equipment.

By the way Cloud Ahoy is a fabulous app (though I don't know if it works outside the US). It shows in detail all aspects of your actual flown route, once you're on the ground.