Fake Italian pilot travelled in cockpit [Archive]

Tableview

23rd Sep 2012, 06:36

Already posted in Italian on the Italian forum but I thought it was of wider interest.

A man who posed as an airline pilot and travelled in the cockpit of at least one plane was arrested in Turin Airport using forged identity cards and wearing a pilot’s uniform, Italian police said on Saturday.
The 32-year-old, whose real name was not released, allegedly created a fake identity as a Lufthansa pilot named “Andrea Sirlo,” complete with a Facebook page that included fake flight attendant friends.
Police said they were alerted several months ago after “Sirlo” introduced himself as a captain to a Civil Aviation lieutenant, who became suspicious because he seemed too young for the job.
The national military police tracked down the suspect from photos on his Facebook profile, in which he is shown posing in uniform and sunglasses in front of airplanes.
He was arrested in the check-in area of Turin Airport on Friday.
Police said “Sirlo” had travelled for free on at least one flight as a “third pilot” sitting in the cockpit. They were investigating whether he had flown as an imposter at other times.
Lufthansa declined to comment on whether one of their flights had been involved and said it was a matter for the police.
At a press conference, police displayed a white shirt with epaulettes and a black double-breasted jacket with pilot stripes sewn on the cuffs. They said they also seized fake resumes, airline badges and an airport staff parking permit.
Turin Airport said in a statement it had not issued any permits in the name of the person involved.
A profile on a website where users can track their flights shows “Pilot Andrea Sirlo” flying from Munich Airport to Turin on Oct. 23, 2011. ()
Munich Airport did not immediately respond to a request for comment.
The case recalls the 2002 film “Catch Me If You Can,” in which Leonardo DiCaprio played Frank Abagnale, a real-life con man who is said to have flown more than 1,600,000 kilometers (1 million miles) as a fake Pan American pilot in the 1960s.
’Sirlo’ is the name of a flight corridor over Turin.

jcjeant

23rd Sep 2012, 07:03

That's what awaiting him :)
http://im.rediff.com/money/2009/jun/18sld6.jpg

RHINO

23rd Sep 2012, 08:00

Give him a job!

wiggy

23rd Sep 2012, 08:11

DaveReidUK

23rd Sep 2012, 08:42

So 32 is considered by some at least to be too young to be an airline captain in Italy

Although on his t witter page he only claims to be a F/O on Lufthansa Cityline:

https://si0.twimg.com/profile_images/1804504115/PhotoChooser-f1f1a52a-fa3e-4979-8efe-33a3d82a265c.jpg

https://twitter.com/AndreaSirlo

Unless of course he has a namesake who really is. :O

flydive1

23rd Sep 2012, 09:40

So 32 is considered by some at least to be too young to be an airline captain in Italy.......is that a fair reflection of "local" crew demography :confused:

That was in the original newspaper article, in the updated one they only talk about F/O and being to young to go from 2 to 3 stripes at 32.

Micky

23rd Sep 2012, 10:10

That's no Cityline uniform...can't believe anyone falling for that...at least at Dolomiti or Lufthansa....

And (no offence ment to ryr/Ali guys & girls) possing In front of Ryanair and Alitalia as Cityline pilot....please:}

Desert Dawg

23rd Sep 2012, 11:15

In a certain ME airline, there is a 777 captain (reached his command this year) and he is 31. Certified and correct.... and 31.

Not too impossible to be a commander at 31 methinks:}

JammedStab

23rd Sep 2012, 11:34

Based on my own experience several years ago and from a recent report, both on Air France 747's, there were at least several passengers going in and out of the cockpit while in flight.

Bet you that wouldn't happen at BA.

Weary

23rd Sep 2012, 11:59

Thank God for CASS in the U.S.

Shouldn't European regulators introduce something similar too?

Good God Mike
That is far too sensible for something similar to be implemented here. This is Europe man - you are thinking USA !!
What you are suggesting is the co-operation and resolve of a bunch of fractious country-states, not so long ago still at war with each other, who's only common desire is to get ahead at the expense of the majority. Spending money just to make a system actually user friendly for plebians such as pilots is just not the way the aviation autocrats operate, dear boy.

Good grief, we'll have people suggesting a common currency next !

seat 0A

23rd Sep 2012, 13:08

Please, gentlemen.
Under CASS you couldn't even bring your own child into the cockpit.

There are sensible ways between taking just any wannabe or absolutely no-one int the cockpit.
Let's just keep our own judgement next to sensible rules a factor in this whole hysterical mess.

eastern wiseguy

23rd Sep 2012, 13:14

Mr Good Cat

23rd Sep 2012, 13:20

Not too impossible to be a commander at 31 methinks

I have been told of a captain in a certain low cost irish outfit ,who,five years ago had never even FLOWN an aeroplane.

That surprised me. I believe the source.

I got my command on a 737 at 27 years old after a similar amount of time since I first started flying.

In Europe this is absolutely normal for a cadet, believe me.

EDIT: PS This was not in Ryanair either (before the bashers shoot me down!)

GGR155

23rd Sep 2012, 13:24

Photo of Mr Sirlo appears not to be airside re the great big barbed wire fence!

African Eagle

23rd Sep 2012, 13:35

As a helo pilot I'd be interested to know if you are allowed to let flight attendants pilot the aircraft from the left seat while en-route with pax aboard. Maybe because they are staff this could be considered ok?

seat 0A

23rd Sep 2012, 13:51

I hope you're joking....

RoyHudd

23rd Sep 2012, 14:22

A lot of licensed Italian pilots could be considered "fake". But hell, they look the part! :E

JQKA

23rd Sep 2012, 14:52

The 32-year-old,........introduced himself as a captain to a Civil Aviation lieutenant, who became suspicious because he seemed too young for the job. So 32 is considered by some at least to be too young to be an airline captain in Italy.......is that a fair reflection of "local" crew demography

No it is not a fair reflection body but the Italian reality!! Unlike other airlines, with the exception of Ryanair and easyJet, in Italy there are FO in this position by even more than 10 years of service before advancing as Cpt!
So said, it's normal from the point of view of people to tell that is strange to have a Cpt of 32 years old!

As a helo pilot I'd be interested to know if you are allowed to let flight attendants pilot the aircraft from the left seat while en-route with pax aboard. Maybe because they are staff this could be considered ok?

Are you kidding me , mate!??:confused:
Is that a joke or are you serious?!:uhoh:We never let CA take control of aircraft nor even seat in pilot seats (only exception as many Operator's SOP, when some flight crew leave the cockpit to go to the toilet)!!
Not even take communication!

A lot of licensed Italian pilots could be considered "fake". But hell, they look the part
I'd like to know your affirmation!:=

DOVES

23rd Sep 2012, 15:08

RoyHudd:
A lot of licensed Italian pilots could be considered "fake". But hell, they look the part!
Watch out!
You're insulting my COUNTRY and my pilots (I have instructed hundreds of them).
At least our pilots have never crossed a Continent and the Pond with an engine failure.

JQKA

23rd Sep 2012, 15:17

DOVES....
:ok:

But let's the guy come back here and explain not just us but all..his affirmation, and according to what is been able to write down this bull****!
RoyHudd waiting for YOU.:zzz:

DavidWoodward

23rd Sep 2012, 15:31

Not too impossible to be a commander at 31 methinks

I have been told of a captain in a certain low cost irish outfit ,who,five years ago had never even FLOWN an aeroplane.

That surprised me. I believe the source.

Indeed. Said Captain went to FTE and got promoted a day before the fifth anniversary of his first ever flight...

Golf-Sierra

23rd Sep 2012, 19:17

Are you kidding me , mate!??
Is that a joke or are you serious?!We never let CA take control of aircraft nor even seat in pilot seats (only exception as many Operator's SOP, when some flight crew leave the cockpit to go to the toilet)!!
Not even take communication!

I think what AE had in mind is are deadheading crew ever asked/allowed to take seat in row 0 or take control of the aircraft ;-)

African Eagle

23rd Sep 2012, 20:17

I hope you're joking....

Sadly not ..

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-PpCgAS7l9jQ/UF9tbQT6ShI/AAAAAAAAJvQ/njZx4imaU7M/s512/551982_119307091550468_1687162261_n.jpg

Lord Spandex Masher

23rd Sep 2012, 20:34

Are you kidding me , mate!??:confused:
Is that a joke or are you serious?!:uhoh:We never let CA take control of aircraft nor even seat in pilot seats (only exception as many Operator's SOP, when some flight crew leave the cockpit to go to the toilet)!!
Not even take communication!

Well I have.

JQKA

23rd Sep 2012, 20:41

Proud to be a pilot and to fly safe and to have some operatores or better to say..Pilots..that allow this :mad:!
Don't be surprised then when we hear aircraft crashed without any explanation..this could be one!:ugh:

LEGAL TENDER

23rd Sep 2012, 21:49

"Andrea Sirlo"

sounds more like a footballer wannabe, rather than an aviator.. ;)

JQKA

24th Sep 2012, 00:34

At leat he was just use the airplanes just for a "lift":p
I do believe there are so many faked pilot around the word piloting! with and without licence!;)

KAG

24th Sep 2012, 02:17

L'habit ne fait pas le moine.

Too bad this proverb doesn't exist in english, it would be something like: "the clothing doesn't make the monk".

iceman50

24th Sep 2012, 02:36

JQKA and DOVES

Lighten up, I think Roy of the Hudd was being humorous! Italian pilots certainly do have style.

ea306

24th Sep 2012, 03:25

Hmmmm.

Before 911 I could put anyone I wanted in my Jumpseat...even my wife...terror of terrors!

Last summer I flew for a Belgian Airline and I was pleasantly pleased to learn that I could put my wife in a jump seat again.... (New wife... :-)) In fact, I could put just about anyone in my jump seat of I so desired.

Was a real treat.

:-)

camel

24th Sep 2012, 05:20

Remember a certain 'shed' skipper who used to take his pet terrier on night mail flights..

now thats what i call real class :cool:...please forget all this italian 'stylish' BS

Dont Hang Up

24th Sep 2012, 06:37

What is he actually charged with?

I am not sure impersonating a member of airline personnel is, in itself, any kind of crime.

Dg800

24th Sep 2012, 09:08

Speevy

24th Sep 2012, 09:13

I suspect this thread will soon slip into another penis size contest..

Anyway after having flown in 3 different continents and with people from all over the globe, I can only say that there lots of very good pilots everywhere including Italy but that the opposite is true as well...

Do we have a style?

Definitely, that's one thing I can say, we wear our uniform with pride, maybe because we don't forget easily how hard it was to wear the first one for some of us...

Is that a crime?

That's one thing I still don't get..
For some of you it's not just acceptable but almost cool to wear a scrappy uniform, for me that's unprofessional, but I guess I am the minority..

Ciao Speevy

Unusual Attitude

24th Sep 2012, 09:17

Is this P2F stretching to the jumpseat to boost revenue?!?!?! :}

I'll get my coat....

pontifex

24th Sep 2012, 10:48

In the 80s I knew a tp (civilian) who had his Labrador, named "Biggles", flying in the RHS of a C130. Of course there was an FE as well so it was quite safe! This is true!
I understand that the dog was also qualified on the Devon/Dove.

mushroom69

24th Sep 2012, 11:04

http://www.pprune.org/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=7429650&noquote=1

The picture of the FA in the LH seat-no "sad but true," and no "control."

Captain leaves the seat for the loo, comes back and she starts to get up. He says, no stay there a bit, I will stretch my legs and stand a bit. Takes out his phone and takes a picture.

She can happily show the picture and they have a little light time. No danger, no implications, in cruise, in good weather and for all we know, the FO is in fact also captain rated.

If something did happen, she would be out of the seat in no time and there would be no difference from him going off to the loo and no one sitting in the seat.

Happens all the time stiff-necks..........

763 jock

24th Sep 2012, 11:16

Is it still school holidays? My kids went back weeks ago....

JQKA

24th Sep 2012, 11:24

I know it happen a lot and will be in this way for ever...
but what I believe, that is not a Standard Procedure and not very Safely.
Weather is good, 3 CPT in cockpit and all you want...technical malfunction or failures, did not advise you..and could happen even in the best ever day of the year...
And...:*..she/he will be put of the seat in No Time:confused::confused::confused:
I don't believe so..what do you think could happen if they experience a fast decompression or worst case scenario an explosive decompression..
believe me is better to stay every one at his own seat! and to have time to do just they should have to do by hearth instead of loosing time to remove somepne and get his seats...In aircraft there is no time in case of emergencies!
Time is the main factor who decides life and death

I used to fly "relaxed" but believe me every time I stay alone in Fligh Deck I always review by my mind some emergencies could happen to me at that time just to be prepared to handle all alone..have no time to wait the CPT....unless in paradise;)

ManaAdaSystem

24th Sep 2012, 11:45

Aeroflot flight 593 accident March 23 1994:

The aircraft was operating an international scheduled Moscow–Hong Kong passenger service as Flight 593, when it crashed en route near Mezhdurechensk, after the auto-pilot partially shut off when the captain's 16-year-old son was allowed to sit in the pilot seat and handle the controls.

Dg800

24th Sep 2012, 12:05

It's English LEvel 4
No, it's bad English, plain and simple.

but at least we can write and speak In english....
Dream on...

how is your level of Italy?
Didn't know ICAO assigned levels for proficiency in a whole country and not just its official language...

You now man...I know people in UK mothertongue that have got Level 5, i can't understand and believe that..but in Italy you know all get level 6 for our own language..something could be wrong with you guys!Maybe it's because in the UK even locals get actually tested? I definitely wouldn't give some of my own countrymen Level 5 (in Italian, not in English!).

mushroom69

24th Sep 2012, 12:23

I don't believe so..what do you think could happen if they experience a fast decompression or worst case scenario an explosive decompression..
believe me is better to stay every one at his own seat! and to have time to do just they should have to do by hearth instead of loosing time to remove somepne and get his seats...In aircraft there is no time in case of emergencies!

Remember I did say that the captain had gone to the loo (I suppose that is permitted in your operations?) and returned.....etc

I also do not believe that she would be considered to be manipulating the flight controls, as the aircraft is on auto-pilot and she is "pretending" to fly.

OK------?

On a long flight, it is good to stretch legs and it is the other pilot that has control. Could she possibly hit something on the way in or out and disconnect the autopilot? Anything is possible, but just like briefing anyone who sits in the jumpseat (and I don't care who it is, they get a brief to not touch anything!)

As far as a decompression, it could happen when one of the pilots is in the loo.....yes. So let's forbid leaving the seat, install relief tubes or something.

I am in fact adamant that the other pilot has no drinks, food, iPad or paperwork underway when I am feeling the need, nothing on his side that interferes with his/her mask and that I even remind them of that and get a confirmation.

I don't go so far as to require the mask being put on, although in theory/some countries regs, that is still a requirement depending on the altitude.

I remember the Russian accident and the 16 year old, and although I never read the accident report, I have always wondered what the other pilot was doing and how they could let things get so far out of control(?) Don't know the altitude, flight circumstances or anything.......

We also allow controlled napping, so I suppose there are people that would take offence at that too......included here just so you can get it all off your chest as once.

Oh! .....and we have also (flight crew) been known to have the music on in the cabin and help the cabin crew clean up (after all our work is done) so that we could all leave at the same time. Now I know there are some of you that frown on that too. Like the type who have invited friends on board after landing at destination, have the FA serve up the left-overs, eat for 30 minutes and then leave the poor girl alone to finish her clean up after you, have the engineers turn the APU off and close up, while you bugger off to town.

Different CRM, culture and politeness levels all over the place.

La la la

blissbak

24th Sep 2012, 12:45

I like fake pilot the best :(

Golf-Sierra

24th Sep 2012, 13:09

I guess when you need to go to the loo one of these would be handy :}

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/d/da/Airplane_screenshot_Haggerty_Nielsen.jpg

Flight controls manipulation during flight operations is RESTRICTED to qualified pilots of the certificate holder under the auspices of which the aircraft operates, or -with the permission of the PIC- to a qualified pilot (of another certificate holder) authorized to operate in this type.

Just because she's a quite attractive girl doesn't necessarily mean she's not qualified to fly the thing :=

Dont Hang Up

24th Sep 2012, 13:41

I am not sure impersonating a member of airline personnel is, in itself, any kind of crime.
It is, if you obtain an economical advantage from it such as free passage, which happened allegedly at least once in this case. Not to mention the security aspects if you manage to get into a restricted area, such as the apron or even worse the flight deck, under such false pretenses.

Even then I suspect that passively acquiescing to offers of free passage could be considered as still within the law. And where is the security threat if the person has no malicious intent? Of course if forged ID is used at any stage or passenger safety is endangered (actual handling of the aircraft controls for example) then the game changes.

And it would appear that in Italy at least...

in Italy it's illegal per se even without monetary gain, that is only if it's a legally licensed and regulated profession such as doctor, lawyer or, as in this case, airline transport pilot.

...they have it covered just on the impersonation alone. Need to choose carefully what one wears to that fancy dress party!

Dg800

24th Sep 2012, 14:01

Even then I suspect that passively acquiescing to offers of free passage could be considered as still within the law. And where is the security threat if the person has no malicious intent? Of course if forged ID is used at any stage or passenger safety is endangered (actual handling of the aircraft controls for example) then the game changes. It usually isn't that simple. For example breaking into any computer system without the owner's consent, even without malicious intent, is still a crime in and of itself. Entering an area that would normally be off-limits to you using deception, which proves you had intent do so and it wasn't just a honest mistake, is probably dealt with in the same way in most jurisdictions, just as illegal ownership of a firearm is itself a crime even if you (still) haven't shot anyone with it.

And it would appear that in Italy at least...
...they have it covered just on the impersonation alone. Need to choose carefully what one wears to that fancy dress party!

Yeah, I guess plumber and carpenter costumes will be making a comeback very soon as those professions are still "safe to impersonate". :ok:

blissbak

24th Sep 2012, 14:02

Falsification of documents is a crime already... If you use them to "breach a security barrier", even if you aren't an Al-qaeda crew, you are commiting another crime.

Of course no jail for Capt. Sirlo but a conviction is possible

Dont Hang Up

24th Sep 2012, 14:16

And it would appear that in Italy at least...
...they have it covered just on the impersonation alone. Need to choose carefully what one wears to that fancy dress party!

Yeah, I guess plumber and carpenter costumes will be making a comeback very soon as those professions are still "safe to impersonate".

You have clearly met my plumber! ;)

aterpster

24th Sep 2012, 14:22

Desert D:

Not too impossible to be a commander at 31 methinks

I was 30 at TWA. A good friend of mine who was hired at age 21 was checked out at age 24. These were bid postions, not just upgrade. Lots of expansion going on then (1967).

Heathrow Harry

24th Sep 2012, 15:10

wasn't there a guy on SAS who flew safely for years with no qualifications?

mushroom69

24th Sep 2012, 15:54

I think he had qualifications, but had not bothered to renew his medicals. The one with no qualifications was in UK, he went to prison and now is seeking permission to actually qualify....another thread.

....but I suspect there is irony afloat(?):=:=

jxk

24th Sep 2012, 17:10

It begs the question, when are you entitled to issue (say) your own security pass and any other form of identity. Do have to register yourself with government or police?

aterpster

24th Sep 2012, 19:08

Heathrow Harry:

wasn't there a guy on SAS who flew safely for years with no qualifications?

There was an Eastern Airlines captain that flew left seat for years with only private pilot certificate.

pappabagge

24th Sep 2012, 20:56

I think this might be your man... The Guy Who Flew Thousands of Passengers As a Fake Pilot (http://gizmodo.com/5540789/the-guy-who-flew-thousands-of-passengers-as-a-fake-pilot)

aerobat77

25th Sep 2012, 07:38

:E he seems to be really proud of his uniform and the monster sunglasses , but stands unfortunetly on the wrong side of the fence !

he should definitivly join pprune , he will find many comrades with a similar career and a lot space for technical discussion !

@ african eagle : i guess the antonov ( 24?) is not certified for single hand operation so its not allowed , on single hand approved airplanes you can do it as long the lady just smiles and does not steer the aircraft. thats law, reality of course may look different... :oh:

cheers !

Brookmans Park

25th Sep 2012, 08:27

I am amazed that no one has commented on the Ryanair connection.
In the picture "SFO Sirlo" is standing in front of one of their 738s
so I blame O'Leary!!!!

Heathrow Harry

25th Sep 2012, 10:29

Thanks Pappabagge - that's the guy - 13 years without incident - must have been reasonably good and very very lucky......

DOVES

25th Sep 2012, 18:26

"Who is without sin cast the first stone"

http://www.pprune.org/5553317-post78.html

Pequena_Inquieta

27th Sep 2012, 18:14

Not too impossible to be a commander at 31 methinks
My ex-boyfriend is an example of that. Now 32, has been sitting on the left for 3 years. I've flown with many captains in their early 30s who got their commands years before on the 737. The youngest one was 26.

Don't know about regulation in other countries, but here in Brazil only aviation personnel are allowed on the jumpseat. Of course some captains allow their ladies as well. But I would NEVER EVER sit on a pilot seat while the airplane was in the air, not even if some crazy pilot insisted. Why not just take the damn picture while on the ground?
I know I can be a safety freak sometimes, but allowing a non-qualified person to touch the controls during the flight is just absurd to me. :*

Farrell

28th Sep 2012, 14:31

Peter Gibbons was only 25 when he got his command on the Airbus. (http://icliverpool.icnetwork.co.uk/0100news/0100regionalnews/tm_objectid=15822335&method=full&siteid=50061&headline=youngest-ba-captain-but-mum-happy-on-ground-name_page.html)

biocybertronics

3rd Oct 2012, 22:29

I am not sure impersonating a member of airline personnel is, in itself, any kind of crime.

It's Fraud by false representation.

He made a representation which he know to be untrue or misleading in order to make a gain i.e free flights.

Think its up to 5 years inside, which I would imagine they would have to make an example of him as it could be outright dangerous or hightlight the secuirty failings to people who want to cause real damage.

HAWK21M

4th Oct 2012, 09:20

Isn't the Flight deck .....restricted area & access only permitted to company staff on duty.....

Dont Hang Up

10th Oct 2012, 08:43

I am not sure impersonating a member of airline personnel is, in itself, any kind of crime.

It's Fraud by false representation.

He made a representation which he know to be untrue or misleading in order to make a gain i.e free flights.

Active misrepresentation for personal gain is fraud.

Wandering around in a uniform, talking the talk and allowing someone else to jump to incorrect assumptions is a case of - more fool them.

I am just talking in principle you understand. I do not know all the facts here. And as someone has already claimed - in Italy the dressing up alone is a crime. (No Doctor & Nurse or Vicar & Tart parties there!)