UK Independent Flying Instructors

[Talkdownman]

Re: UK CAA IN–2012/112 (http://www.caa.co.uk/docs/33/srg_lts_IN-2012_112-Info%20for%20independent%20flying%20instructorsv2.pdf)
All training for the issue or renewal of an aircraft rating in a Part-FCL licence training must now be carried out within an RF, TRTO, FTO or ATO.

What training may Independent Instructors provide outside Registered Facilities and Approved Organisations?

Differences Training?
IMC Training?
90-day 'renewal of passenger-carriage privilege' flights?
In particular, is the Revalidation 'Training Flight' permissible as it is not for issue or renewal?

[sps1013]

As I understand it no training may be given "out of the boot of a car" you must be affiliated to an RTO etc.

This was briefed heavily at a recent instructor seminar.

[Whopity]

A dual flight with a qualified pilot is OK so that will cover 90 day recency. Differences training requires an ATO or RF till Apr 2015. There are no TRTOs or FTOs they all became ATOs.
IMC training has nothing to do with Part FCL or ATOs

[Mickey Kaye]

Hows will this work?

Many rf don't have aircraft with wobby prop/retract or tailwheel. Does that mean the rf will have to put the person who wants the differences training (owner) having their aircraft added to the rf approved aircraft list?

[Pilotage]

So biennials and anything presumably of a pilot already legally qualified (e.g. type checkouts, or 90-day rule recurrency) are fine?

But what about differences training? Can a syndicate for example bring in an independent instructor to do somebody's tailwheel conversion? Or will that instructor now need to be an RTF?

Trying to wade through the CAA documents it's less than completely clear. I can't see anything that explicitly includes, or excludes DT.

P

[mlee]

Hi, I'm an FI, I have a guy that wants to do his night qualification with me, in his own aircraft based away from the school I work at. Am I allowed to do this qualification not affiliated to a ATO?

Regards

[shortleg]

As I read it the only difference is that whereas before you could instruct for the issue/renewal of a rating (e.g. SEP) outside of a registered facility, you now cannot. Difference training, biennials, check flights etc are not training for a renewal / issue of a rating so can be done independently. I standby to be corrected!

[Pilotage]

I hope you are correct.

NQ is interesting however - it's not differences training, and not a rating. (As we all know, it was changed some years back from NR to NQ). A CRI for example cannot teach for NQ because it's considered a new qualification, which seems closer to a rating than anything else.

Unclear!

P

[nick14]

Reading CAP804 it states that it is a Night Rating, and hence I suspect that it is an additional rating that requires training from an appropriately qualified instructor at an ATO.

I was under the impression that a CRI could train licence holders for additional ratings, ie MEP on a PPL, or am I mistaken? A CRI can teach for an Aerobatic rating so why not a night rating?

[421C]

Differences training requires an ATO or RF till Apr 2015.
Whopity, where'd you get that from? I don't see anything in Part FCL about differences training needing an ATO?
brgds
421C

[Whopity]

I must say that my information was hearsay and I can't find anything to substantiate it either.
I was under the impression that a CRI could train licence holders for additional ratingsNo, wrong impression.FCL.905.CRI CRI — Privileges and conditions
(a) The privileges of a CRI are to instruct for:
(1) the issue, revalidation or renewal of a class or type rating for non-complex non-high performance single-pilot aeroplanes, when the privileges sought by the applicant are to fly in single-pilot operations;
(2) a towing or aerobatic rating for the aeroplane category, provided the CRI holds the relevant rating and has demonstrated the ability to instruct for that rating to an FI qualified in accordance with FCL.905.FI(i).No Night Ratings

[Pilotage]

Reading CAP804 it states that it is a Night Rating, and hence I suspect that it is an additional rating that requires training from an appropriately qualified instructor at an ATO.

I was under the impression that a CRI could train licence holders for additional ratings, ie MEP on a PPL, or am I mistaken? A CRI can teach for an Aerobatic rating so why not a night rating?

I'm a CRI and teach part time both inside an FTO and independently.

I've taught an NPPL(M) to NPPL(SSEA) within an FTO, and would do in the future since so far as I can tell I'd absolutely have to now.

But it's always seemed to me one of the absurdities of the system is that I can potentially add IRI / IMCRI onto my CRI (I won't, I don't consider myself an experienced enough instrument pilot), but can't teach for NQ - which actually I'd be quite comfortable doing.

P

[Whopity]

I can potentially add IRI / IMCRI onto my CRI No you cannot. IRI is a separate qualification and if you do not hold a FI rating, then you would need 800 hours under IFR before you would be eligible to take the IRI Course.FCL.915.IRI IRI — Prerequisites
An applicant for an IRI certificate shall:
(a) for an IRI(A):
(1) have completed at least 800 hours of flight time under IFR, of which at least 400 hours shall be in aeroplanes; and
(2) in the case of applicants of an IRI(A) for multi-engine aeroplanes, meet the requirements of paragraph FCL.915.CRI(a);

[Pilotage]

I suppose I meant that I could obtain it as a separate qualification and phrased that badly.

Lacking about 750 of those 800 instrument hours, I'll probably do without!

Does that apply to IMCRI also?


It still seems silly that I can't add the ability to add the ability to teach NQ to my CRI, but I can't, and was never under any illusions about that.

P

[S-Works]

There is no such thing as an IMCRI. You are either an IRI or not.

[Pilotage]

I stand suitably corrected. Apologies for the daft question - but not having to date looked into the possibility, I'd not read up on it.

Another 700hrs IFR and I may start reading up on it properly!

P

[nick14]

Thanks for that, I stand corrected.

Am I right in saying that a CRI can instruct a PPL holder for initial issue of MEP privileges and CPL students outside the CPL course?

[Whopity]

If you are a CRI(ME) then you can train a qualified pilot for a MEP class rating. The CPL course does not include ME class rating training so it would always be a separate course.

[squawking 7700]

As a CRI and tug pilot (and I think being a current tug pilot qualifies under EASA as a grandfathered towing rating without a further test or training) can I undertake glider towing training for aspiring tug pilots outside of an ATO and without having to demonstrate my ability to a FI? - I don't know, but will check, how the BGA and/or individual gliding clubs intend training tug pilots as not all clubs have access to a suitably qualified CRI or FI.


7700

[BizJetJock]

Quote:

Differences training requires an ATO or RF till Apr 2015.
Whopity, where'd you get that from? I don't see anything in Part FCL about differences training needing an ATO?
brgds
421C

I'm with you on that one 421C.

Everything that requires an ATO is quite specific in Part FCL, and differences training doesn't mention it. Quite a hot topic where I work at the moment!

[Whopity]

can I undertake glider towing training for aspiring tug pilots outside of an ATONo, all training for an EASA rating must be conducted at an ATO. IN 2012/112 (http://www.caa.co.uk/docs/33/srg_lts_IN-2012_112-Info%20for%20independent%20flying%20instructorsv2.pdf) para 2.1

[squawking 7700]

That'll be interesting for gliding clubs to implement, I'm not aware (but stand to be corrected) of any gliding clubs that are set up to conduct tug pilot training as an ATO.


7700

[Whopity]

That'll be interesting for gliding clubs to implementEspecially as they were well represented on the EASA committee! I think they were under the naive impression that the BGA would be the ATO and provide umbrella cover for all the gliding schools. I gather that is not the CAAs view.