Aerobatics Restiction

[Duchess_Driver]

Recommendations please, gentlefolk.

Need someone to remove the aeros restriction.... (and here's the rub!)... in a 152 aerobat.

Anywhere in the UK , but my preference would be SE England / London.

TVM

DD

[wet wet wet]

Try Dave Biddles at the Leicestershire Aero Club.

[Whopity]

Before you spend lots of money, there is no such thing on an EASA licence! When they finally produce the Pilot's aerobatic rating, you will need that plus a sign off from a FIC instructor.

[Duchess_Driver]

My JAR issued licence unfortunately has the restriction clearly stated on it. I have just had everything renewed on it and therefor won't be swapping it for an EASA one anytime soon.

That leaves me with a little problem.... What to do in the meantime?

Last time I checked, neither Alan nor Bruce had access to an aerobat. I could be wrong!

How long are the people at EASA going to take to sort out a 'pilots aerobatic rating'... One would have thought they would have everything in place before making the change...but then again?!??!!!

[BillieBob]

I have just had everything renewed on it and therefor won't be swapping it for an EASA one anytime soon.Why not? all valid ratings will be carried across to the EASA licence.

How long are the people at EASA going to take to sort out a 'pilots aerobatic rating'... One would have thought they would have everything in place before making the changeCredit (and criticism) where its due. So far as EASA is concerned, everything was in place on 8 April - it's the individual 'competent' authorities who can't get their respective acts together.

[Whopity]

and therefor won't be swapping it for an EASA one anytime soon. ironically, if you have the restriction removed, you will receive an EASA licence in return.

Only last summer an FI with the AOPA aerobatic certificate asked the CAA if they needed to do the "Removal of Restriction" The reply was: "No, get a sign off by an FIC Instructor"

[Pitch+Power]

Need someone to remove the aeros restriction in a 152 aerobat

CFS at Cranfield

[S-Works]

I would second the recomendation for Dave Biddles at Leicester. He knows the aerobat inside and out and is even made enough to compete in it!

He is also I really nice guy with a great sense of humour.

[Duchess_Driver]

Quote:
I have just had everything renewed on it and therefor won't be swapping it for an EASA one anytime soon.

Why not? all valid ratings will be carried across to the EASA licence.

Quote:

That wasn't meant with any malice.....more an administrative exercise that doesn't need to be done and therefore wan't planning to do so.

Leicester seems reasonable...

[OpenCirrus619]

Carol Cooper at Andrewsfield can remove the restriction.

OC619

[nick14]

I assume that to teach aerobatics to a student on a PPL course (ie non licence hold) one needs an FI rating?

[BillieBob]

Any instruction in aerobatics would not be part of a PPL course and so that part of the question is irrelevant. For the next 3 days, it is not a legal requirement in the UK to hold an FI rating in order to give flight instruction that it is not for the purpose of obtaining a licence or rating. Since there is no aerobatic rating in the UK or JAA licensing system, an FI rating is not required for such instruction.

On 17 September, however, the UK implements Annex I of the EU Aircrew Regulation (Part-FCL), which states that a person may only carry out [any] flight instruction in an aircraft if he/she holds a valid licence and relevant instructor certificate and so the loophole will be closed.

[nick14]

So a CRI with an aeros rating and sign off from an FI instructor can instruct anyone for an aeros rating from 17th September.

[foxmoth]

[QUOTE][Any instruction in aerobatics would not be part of a PPL course and so that part of the question is irrelevant/QUOTE]

Not quite correct I think, if someone had managed all the requirements of the PPL apart from total hours there would be nothing to stop them finishing those hours (or indeed have made these hours up during their course) with aeros instruction, if it was done and recorded as such then the person carrying out this instructing would need an FI rating with the aeros restriction removed.

[BillieBob]

No, my point is that aerobatics, as an exercise, did/does not appear in either the JAA or EASA PPL syllabus. Actually, as aerobatics did not appear in the syllabus of any JAA licence or rating and the privileges of a JAA FI were defined solely by the licences and rating for which he could provide instruction, it is arguable that the privilege to teach aerobatics was never included in a JAA FI rating.

[foxmoth]

The question though was that if one was to teach aeros on a PPL course would you need an FI rating, and of course to teach ANYTHING with the hours counting towards the PPL it would need to be by someone with an FI rating, so it is not as you said "irrelevant" in that an aeros pilot could fly with a student and show them aeros, but this could NOT be classed as instruction towards the PPL, whearas if that pilot has a FI rating then those hours can count.

[nick14]

Thanks foxmoth cleared that up nicely!

[BEagle]

Although I will be seeking clarification at the next EASA FCL-PG meeting, reading the aircrew regulation carefully, it seems to me that:

Except for the aerobatic rating itself, to instruct for a something such as an IR or FIC, both of which require 'intentional manoeuvres involving an abrupt change in an aircraft’s attitude, an abnormal attitude, or abnormal acceleration, not necessary for normal flight', for example during recoveries from unusual attitudes, neither an aerobatic rating nor aerobatic instructional privileges are required.

To instruct for the aerobatic rating, the FI/CRI must hold an aerobatic rating and have 'demonstrated the ability to instruct for that rating to an FIC instructor with aerobatic instructional privileges'.

After Apr 2015, to fly aerobatics on an EASA aeroplane, the pilot will need to hold an aerobatic rating.

To teach 'intentional manoeuvres involving an abrupt change in an aircraft’s attitude, an abnormal attitude, or abnormal acceleration, not necessary for normal flight' which are not mandatory parts of a part-FCL rating/licence/certificate syllabus, the FI/CRI/TRI needs to hold an aerobatic rating, but does not need to have 'demonstrated the ability to instruct for that rating to an FIC instructor with aerobatic instructional privileges'.

Thus for air experience lessons which include aerobatics, or upset prevention and recovery training, it seems that the instructor doesn't need to have demonstrated the ability to teach aerobatic flying?