Flying instructor jobs

[Fanor]

Hi. I was wondering what the job prospects are like for newly qualified flying instructors in the UK and what the pay was like? And how many hours on average per month would a instructor be doing seeing that the UK weather isn't the best.

Cheers

[hobbit1983]

1. Variable.
2. Again variable, but somewhere between £15-£20ph chocks on & off.
3. If you're full time, it varies, but roughly 25 to 35 hours a month in the SW.

[Fanor]

Thanks for the reply.

Wow. If those figures are right then wouldn't the pay be like £6000 a year? Which is nothing. Does your salary come from only flying or is there a fixed salary with additional flying duty pay? And only 30 hours a month seems very low.

[hobbit1983]

It depends - if you're FT then probably you'd have a retainer or fixed salary instead, although for a newly qualified FI(R), this would be unusual. Normally you'll start off on hourly pay per flight only, most likely on a self employed contractor basis.

Well, maybe it does, but FT FIs can be expected to do around 500hrs/year, tops.

[Fanor]

Sorry whats FT? First time?

Although I want to do it for the experience and also the hours the fact that wages are low you can't build up many hours is not very appealing. The investment of £5K to £8k for training to become one doesn't make sense.

Maybe working the USA as a EASA flight instructor makes more sense. Pay is I think the same. But at least you can get more hours in.

Thank you for the help

[hobbit1983]

Yes. And yeah, wages are low. Market forces at play, sadly.

Did any of the (probably upwards of £80k) investment in your training make financial sense given the current state of the industry, expected pay, and the outlay required?

It's a pity that it's seen as a way to build hours, IMHO.

[Fanor]

I am not pursuing a career in aviation because of the pay or status. I am doing it because I love flying and it is the only thing I have ever seen myself doing since I was a child.

I think its seen as a option because you might as well get paid for building up hours. Because unfortunately nowadays hardly anyone hires pilots with 200 hours. If they do, they usually require £30000 and then you still get paid badly afterwards. You might as well get the experience from instructing and the hours and once you have build up 500-1000 try your luck in the market. Thats my opinion.

[hobbit1983]

I wasn't saying you were doing it for the status or the money. I was saying from a purely financial viewpoint today, training for a CPL/IR is a crazy decision (sadly). Therefore, viewing the outlay for an FI(R) from a solely financial viewpoint is also crazy.

You don't get paid to build up hours. You get paid to instruct someone how to fly.

But yes, you might as well. And people do, because, as you pointed out, there are scant few other options available. However, I still think it's a pity.

[S-Works]

You might as well get the experience from instructing and the hours and once you have build up 500-1000 try your luck in the market. Thats my opinion.

If you only knew how much that comment pisses me off.....

With an attitude like that you better hope you never send your CV to me for flying or commercial work.

[Fanor]

And why does that comment piss you? Why not build up extra hours through instructing? In my opinion and my instructors it improves your flying skills and also gives you that extra experience that will make you stand apart from other people with minimal experience or hours gained just through hour building by themselves.

[S-Works]

Instructing is about giving the best to educate others. It is not about having somebody else pay to provide you with experience and it is not a last resort.

It is little wonder that we have so many crap new pilots around when the Instructors teaching them are only there to build hours at there expense and move on.

The only reason I became an Instructor was because I was pissed off sitting next to idiots droning on about how they were really airline pilots waiting for a proper job.

I am a Commercial Turboprop pilot but also teach and examine and when I am recruiting I look for people who have a broad experience and real passion to teach and fly not those just marking time for something else.

It is also the attitude that teaching is the lowest form of job that keeps hardworking and dedicated career instructors on the bread line.

If I had my way, you would need a wide and varied 800 plus hours before being accepted to be an Instructor.

Go get your experience at your own expense, spend the money on touring and then when you have it and you still want to be an instructor you might have something to offer.

/rant mode off.;)

[mad_jock]

Because instructing well takes passion and also you give a little bit of yourself to each student if you are doing it properly.

If you had no intention of instructing before you started training stay away from it. All it does is drag the industry down as you use students to build your hours.

[Fanor]

Well the point is I want to instruct to get the experience that comes from it. I have a real passion and love of flying and I want to share that with others.

Thank you for your input Bose-x.

[S-Works]

Well the point is I want to instruct to get the experience that comes from it.

Thats kind of my point. You are gaining experience at the expense of those who need to gain experience the most, the students.

The blind leading the blind?

[Fanor]

That might be the case. But we all have to start somewhere!!!! How do you think the best instructors out there started? From the bottom and gained the experience and knowledge along the way!!!!

[mad_jock]

Well I to was an instructor fresh out of school at 220 hours.

But it was always in my plan to do that.

Personally I would never employ and instructor who had an IR or hadn't done the instructors course straight after teh CPL IR.

In fact a CPL/IR MCC'd up FI with a break between finishing and FIC wouldn't be touched with a barge pole.

[Fanor]

Well my plan is to do my cpl and then FI straight away. And the MEP, IR and mcc later.

I'm sure you didn't want to Instruct forever. Why did you become an instructor? Answer Honestly now

[mad_jock]

Been a diving instructor, lorry instructor I have always got alot of satisfaction out of instructing. And know that you get a higher level of understand having to teach something than if you just do it.

Now after moving on to airlines i still hold a valid FI and linetrain.

In a couple of hours I head off to fly with a bloke that has 240 hours and 15 hours on type. Will I be instructing him? Yep. Realistically is it worth the extra I payed for doing it? Not really but I get alot of job satisfaction out of seeing him improve and develop.

If I could get a decent salary that I could live on working 9 to 5 instructing from PPL level up to IR, you could stick your early starts and commercial pressures where the sun don't shine flying the line. But instructing properly is vastly more tiring than flying the line.

[LAI]

I became an FI this year, only a few months after finishing the CPL/IR/MCC, but I had the advantage of having spent the last 8 years instructing on motor gliders in my spare time, so I knew I already loved doing it regardless. And for the sake of full disclosure...it was not my intention to make a living out of instructing right now, but that's life in such a job market (fortunately, it was something I wanted to do at some point in the future anyway).

The problem is, I have flown with PPLs and students now, who have obviously lost out due to p*ss poor instruction and it winds me up no end. I am by no means experienced, but I can recognise rubbish when I see it.

My opinion is that a lot of this is partly down to disinterested and inexperienced "hours building" guys, but also down to a huge lack of standardisation in general (having come from an organisation where you are standardised every 6 months with continuation training between that too, I was amazed at the 3-year long FI rating and its renewal requirements!). But that's a different debate!

I cannot agree more with what MJ has said, but allow me to add my own advice...

1. Your instructors and friends are right; instructing is excellent for the person doing the instructing. It will improve your flying and aviation knowledge no end.

2. If you do not love the idea of teaching in its own right, DO NOT INSTRUCT. You will not enjoy it and your disinterest will show through to your students.

3. It is hard work. Think of all the briefs, debriefs, write-ups, ground lessons that usually you are not paid for (but are just as important to the progression of YOUR student). All of these require your best effort, despite not paying you anything. Think of that student who just can't quite get how to fly a level turn, but you've had a long week and can't be bothered to spend another five minutes reteaching it...Spend the five minutes!.

4. Recognise that you don't know much! Never ever bull**** a student if you don't know the answer to something. Admit you don't know and seek advice from someone who does. Then go back to your student with the correct answer (and you've both learnt something!). Same goes in the air; if you can't get something across to your student, ask someone else how they teach it. Don't waste your time and the student's flogging a dead horse.

5. Never forget what it was like when you were a student and how much you relied on your instructors (and probably believed 100% of what they told you, without reservation). It is a huge responsibility, so take it seriously.

6. Constantly assess yourself on every trip and every board brief. What could you have done better? Never allow your own personal standards of instruction or flying to slip. Go back to the books regularly to make sure you are teaching things correctly (don't let the bad habits slip in!).

So, to sum up, if you think this still sounds attractive, then go for it. The personal (not financial!) rewards are more than worth it. Seeing your student going off solo, the satisfaction when you finally manage to get them to understand landing without crashing :ok:, or seeing them coming back from their skills test with that big grin on their face is what it's all about. Do not do it if it is just a job and hours building to you (and I have a feeling this is probably what MJ was saying...).

P.S. Apologies for the massive essay that this has become! :O

[Heston]

+1 :D:D

H

[cavortingcheetah]

Never forget what it was like when you were a student.

And when you get to be a Commander never forget what it was like to be a Sub Lieutenant in the right hand seat.

[plikee]

Guys, I agree with both of you. Instruction is for people who want to teach and, at the same time, to learn. That is the best part, because you gain experience (not talking about the hours), but it also demands sacrifice. BUT ...

You can't say a 'hour builder' is going to be a bad instructor := my VFR instructor was 22, started the FI course a year and a half after finished his ATPL training and I put my hands on fire he was one of the best instructors in my flight school. His intentions were to build time AND teach! And he did it very well. Of course, there is the opposite side, and I agree with what you said but there are exceptions as I said.


Personally I would never employ and instructor who had an IR or hadn't done the instructors course straight after teh CPL IR

So and if someone is now working on his/her job, to earn some money because they don't have to do a FI course, it will take a while, right? You can't discriminate someone until you know the real reasons for that brake, You have to pay for your rating, and if someone is working towards a FI course, would you say that person is not keen with instruction?


LAI, great post ! :D :ok:

['India-Mike]

I'm an FI who's never had aspirations outside of instructing. While that might resonate well with some of the posters here, I'm very aware that FIs like me are limited in some respects by having no line flying or operational experience. Perhaps it's not needed in elementary flying training but some of the ppl students with commercial aspirations would benefit from being around a "proper" pilot. So the "career instructor" is not the panacea of instruction.

And for the OP's benefit...the optimum situation for an FI is to be part-time and have another job to pay the bills. I couldn't do this full-time and pay the bills. I have to say that of all the things I've ever done (BSc, PhD, CPL, IR, and the rest), the FI course has easily been the most satisfying, challenging, gratifying and fun course I've ever done. Just don't rely on the qualification to pay a living wage (I average 15 hours a month as a part-timer).

Good luck!

[BillieBob]

I'm very aware that FIs like me are limited in some respects by having no line flying or operational experience.Not at all. Given the licences and ratings for which instruction is within the privileges of an FI, no line flying or operational experience is necessary. Operational flight training should be left to the better qualified and experienced TRIs and SFIs.

[mad_jock]

IM why should a FI have any experence line flying?

Thats not what your teaching. You teaching them to look out the window trim the aircraft and get from A to B and deal with any emergencys on the way.

[guyleedsutd]

Just to put the cat amongst the pigeons I changed flying schools 11hours into my ppl from an international airport based school to a local members flying club where I was instructed from an ex ba captain and a lady pilot both ultimate professionals.i am now 43 hours in and waiting to sit my skills test.At the first school I had hour building pilots teaching me and it was a new instructor nearly every other flight and I seemed to be getting nowhere and wasn't at solo standard when I changed schools,every lesson felt rushed and there was very little pre flight briefing.within 4hours at the new school I soloed then went from strength to strength with every lesson because of the dedicated passion my instructors had for flying and their teaching ability,so in my view as a student if you aren't dedicated to the teaching aspect of the fi rating please don't be another hour building fatpl just taking students hard earned money from them because it's a pricey enough career as it is without the added expense of students throwing their money at crap teaching:=::=

[Aware]

I'm sure you didn't want to Instruct forever. Why did you become an instructor? Answer Honestly now

Actually some do, like me who has a successful business and wanted nothing more than to instruct.

bose-x and MJ are spot on this subject and their comments sum up this game 100%.

Of course there are many excellent airline pilot instructors in GA, but the passion was there from the begining, not as a desperate last resort because the plan A failed. If Instructing was not in your overall game plan for a flying career, please please stay away.

If you compare GA with the other instructing such as microlights you we see the evidence. Microlight instructors I know earn 30 - 40K a year BECAUSE THEY ARE NO HOUR BUILDERS WHO HAVE PUSHED INSTRUCTOR PAY AND CONDITIONS DOWN , AND THEY THEREFORE EARN A REASONABLE HOURLY RATE.

[speedbird001]

Hi all,

I don't post on here a lot but after reading this brilliant thread :ok: I decided to take the plunge with my 2 cents worth.

I've had my fATPL for two years now and I've had no luck at all on the job front, like many others as well.

Like a lot of guys I've got a huge passion for Flying and Aviation in general, I've only got 300hrs so the industry is still very new to me and I'm still learning, I had to do the MEP/IR first, like most I really didn't fancy doing all those exams again and not to mention the money problems along the way.

Other pilots always ask me what am I going to do, go to this airline or that airline or bush fly etc etc etc but the truth is I just love Flying and all I want is to make some sort of a living out of it at the end of the day.

The only thing that has really appealed to me since passing the CPL/IR is doing the Instructors Course, after reading this thread now that's exactly what I'm going to do.

Over the last year I feel I've been like a dog chasing my own tail :ugh: but this thread has really inspired me to finally go out and take the plunge, I find it really difficult to try and express my passion and enthusiasm in writing but for those who can a massive thumbs up.

After reading a lot of posts on here this one has really made me think what I love about Flying, when I think back I can relate to a lot of things you guys said about being an instructor, all the ones I've had I looked up to them as gods in my early training and without doubt when I look back, learning to Fly for my PPL has been the best experience in all of my Flight Training to date.

I know as a PPL instructor I won't make a huge ammount of money, it's never been about getting the hours in for me, I just want to Fly for some sort of a living and maybe after a few years I may want to go down the commercial instruction route, I just hope that I will be able to bring that passion over to my students when it finally happens and be able to inspire them as I was.

Great thread guys, all the best


SB001

[Dan the weegie]

Aware, the main reason Microlight instructors get paid more is that the competition isn't as fierce and the cost of running a Microlight and the associated school is very much smaller allowing for reasonable margin to run the business and yes the people who are doing it tend to be the owner of the business so the staff overheads are lower. I'm not saying Microlights aren't brilliant - they are but it's not as one dimensional as that.

The commercial pressure on a flying school to be "as cheap as possible" is very strong and the only place you can reduce cost to maintain competitiveness is to pressure the FIs. It's a vicious circle. That said at my old school the concept was that we would have as few FIs as we could get away with so that they could have as many hours as possible. They fly now between 900 and 1200 hours a year and get paid a reasonable wage.

I-M I'm not sure I think an instructor needs to have flown commercially but a wide and varied experience beyond tommies, C150/2 etc etc and plenty of cross country flying and ****t-hot handling skills makes for the best guys. For me the best instructors I ever had were former fast jet military instructors who had seen just about everything.

[mad_jock]

If they are doing over 900 they could get into trouble.

The rest of the FTL's don't count but the hard limit of 900 hours does.

[Dan the weegie]

Not my problem.

[hobbit1983]

They fly now between 900 and 1200 hours a year

Just out of interest...How?

[gnome11]

Is it really impossible to imagine that some people might want to pursue an airline career and be passionate about instructing??

I like most other people on here have spent several years and 1000's of pounds pursuing my dream (blah blah blah!). When I started out I really had no intention of becoming an instructor. However, as I have matured both as a pilot and an individual I have realised that it would immensly fulfilling to pass on what I have learnt to somebody else.

It's not a secret (or a crime) that one day I would like to join an airline. However in reality that is probably still a few years away. There's no way realistically I can afford the £80k it would cost me to reach the golden 1000 hour mark. In the meantime I want to continue learning and developing whilst helping others do the same.

During my time I have been taught by all flavours of instructors (Life time instructors/hour builders/retired-part time instructors) I don't think I have ever come across somebody who wasn't passionate about what they do and all of them have different pros/cons. A least somebody fresh out of the CPL/IR trail is still in touch with the modern generation of trainee pilot, with an appreciation of the cost and impact it has on the rest of your life. Rather than just treating you as a commercial asset or a way of funding the flying school christmas party.

I hope that that as a new instructor I can pass on my experience (no matter how much that might be) and learn from my students and peers. I also hope that I can maintain a level of respect for any fellow pilot regardless of where the want to take their flying in the future. If I only end instructing for 12 months then so be it, but I will approach it with the same attitude as I have with everything else and make it a success. I hope that it is something I will be able to continue to do alongside my future career, or something that I can return to in time.

Whatever happens I am fed up of being told that I can't build experience and be a good instructor. Wake up and realise that the aviation industry has changed in the last 30 years!

[Parson]

Why have a pop at someone wanting to instruct to build hours to then get an airline job when not long ago it was the main way to go from BCPL to CPL? ie 700 hrs.

When I learn't to fly, ever single instructor I had was building hours to move on. They may not have seen instructing as their calling in life but they adpated to it, acted professionally and seemed to enjoy it.

If you are going down the Ryanair/Easy/pay-for-your-type rating route, then FI will mean next to nothing. But there are still oufits that appreciate FI experience such as Eastern, flybe and many corporate/air taxi operators. You can also tick the 'in current flying practice' box rather than have to stump up for aircraft hire yourself.

[Clare Prop]

I'm sure you didn't want to Instruct forever. Why did you become an instructor? Answer Honestly now




How can you be so sure? Would you say the same thing to a school teacher/driving isntructor/diving instructor etc etc? That they must only be doing it because they couldn't get a "proper" job?

I've been instructing and examining for 22 years and 11,000 hours because it is a career path I deliberately chose, not because nothing "better" came along. If you do the job well you can make a good living out of it. If you just want to milk students to fill up your log book, don't expect to get any satisfaction out of it. And don't think that won't be glaringly obvious in a job interview.

Not all of us want to fly shiny jets, I think it would be a horrible way to make a living and I know a lot of people who have gone down that path and wish they hadn't, for career, family and financial reasons.


And I certanly didn't get into this career because of any emotive sentiments like "love" "dream" and "passion" which belong in people's love lives, not their professional lives!

[taxistaxing]

If you do the job well you can make a good living out of it. If you just want to milk students to fill up your log book, don't expect to get any satisfaction out of it. And don't think that won't be glaringly obvious in a job interview.



Clare Prop, is this partly to do with the weather in Aus though? In the UK I've read on here that PPL instructors typically earn £20 - £25 per hour and can expect realistically to fly 500 hours per year. That equates to £10k - £12.5k per year. With the cost of living in the UK that is barely enough to live on let alone have any kind of life.

I'd love to instruct but just see how it can be viable unless doing you're wealthy enough not to need the money, or doing it part time alongside a better paying job. Unfortunatley job satisfaction does not pay the bills!

[Clare Prop]

I instructed in Europe before I moved out here and yes I did have not one but three other jobs to keep the roof over my head whilst gaining early experience.

My point though is that if you want to make a career out of it you can, it doesn't have to be just a means to an end. You just have to work very hard to get established in the early stages as do people in many other professions.

And it is often the people with "drems, love and passion" who keep the wages down!

[mad_jock]

its changed as well with this EASa stuff, there are effectively walls within the experence requirements which would make it extremely hard and expensive to jump over to remain in instructing through out your career and progress beyon PPL level instructing without having gone and done a bit of commercial flying before returning.

[Rocade]

I have a confession to make: I had no intension of instructing when I got my CPL ticket, I just looked at the FI job for hour building and I was quite nervous when starting my FI career that I was going the wrong way :uhoh:

However, I said to myself since my students are paying a lot of money for the lessons, then they deserve a dedicated and enthusiastic, professional instructor. I took my job very seriously and after taking a few highly motivated people from 0 hours to first solo and beyond and seeing them achieve their goals, my view on the FI job changed. I highly enjoy teaching people to fly and sharing my experience with others. I've set my standards high for all my students regarding stick and rudder skills and pride myself of producing high quality pilots.

Am I going to "jump ship" and leave my FI job for an airline job if I get the chance? Yes I will. Do I regret taking the FI route? No I don't and I wouldn't want to trade my FI-hours for anything else. I have found out that instructing is a very rewarding experience and hopefully I can pass my passion of flying on to my students

[DeanP]

For those of us that do want to become career instructors and who want to progress into MEP IR instruction, what kind of salary can you earn then?

I would like to think by that time you could ask for a reasonable wage of £25k surely?

Is it not true that EASA forcing schools to become ATO's will mean that any one student can only go through 3 instructors? Will this not help force schools into employing more reliable long term employees? (I may be well off the mark with this by the way!)

[Trim Stab]

I think it is a non-starter under current regulations and economic climate.

The salaries at FTOs for CRI/IRIs just do not justify the huge expenditure to gain the necessary qualifications.

[DeanP]

What are these salaries you speak of?

[zinc]

DeanP. Kind of concerned that you think £25K is a reasonable salary for a ME/IR instructor. The going rate at the big schools is nearer £50K.

Beware of jokers like this though TP&P Aviation Recruitment (http://www.tpandp.com/jobs/31045.htm)

Zinc

[glendalegoon]

someone said don't instruct unless you want to be an instructor. I don't think I grew up dreaming of being a flight instructor, it was a step towards being an airline pilot.

but to be sure, you do have a responsibility to your student to make sure you are teaching him to be a safe pilot.

I would ignore the comment about ''don't instruct unless you want to be an instructor". But do a good job while instructing whatever your reason is.

when I instructed , decades ago, I charged 20 dollars an hour and threw in the ground for free. (ground instruction). I was poor all the time, but had saved money up for survival during this time. I made the 1500 hours needed to be an atp and then moved on.

but I was a good instructor as all of my students are still alive and well and not involved in any crackups. Some are flying for major airlines now and we are still in touch.

[DeanP]

I can understand why you would be shocked at my "reasonable wage of £25k" remark. I suppose I wasn't expecting such a jump, however, I can see why a ME IR instructor deserves it with the amount of experience to be gained before gaining the necessary qualifications.

[DeanP]

Zinc,

"Beware of jokers like this though TP&P Aviation Recruitment"

Wow! That is a massive joke if £50k a year should be expected! That's almost insulting surely? Let's just hope it's a "probation wage" or something....

[flyboy2]

My feeling is " If you have the gift to Instruct then do it "!

I've conducted Instructing since obtaining my CPL & later my ALTP.
I still do that, even although I certainly don't " need the hours ".

There is a great satisfaction to be derived from imparting knowledge to students, and to either remain in contact with them or be recommended by them for your teaching as being well done.

Instructing purely as hour-building is a stepping-stone, but can then be cast aside when far more lucrative work-opportunities requires one's full attention.

What is nice to observe is when experience is later on again passed on to the younger generations.
Happy Instructing!
:O

[justasmallfire]

I agree with GlendalgoonI would ignore the comment about ''don't instruct unless you want to be an instructor"
Theres a few heads of training out there with the attitude either 'Instructor for life or not at all' in my view they are taking an over simplistic view of instructing and in the process passing up the chance to employ some good instructors who also have other interests in aviation commercial ops ect. The skills they gain from other forms of flying are invaluable in instructing.
I think the best instructors I've met so far have gone onto other flying GA/airlines but also continued to instruct because they have a passion for aviation and enjoy helping others realise their own potential.

[RTN11]

Agree with you there justasmallfire, in any company I think it's best to recruit people from a variety of backgrounds and skill sets.

You need well rounded people, and while one person's passion for the teaching of flying might make him a great instructor of the basic skills of flying, another instructor's ambition to fly an airbus may well inspire the younger students to work hard themselves and keep them coming back for more lessons.

For a flying school to do very well, you certainly need a variety of skills in your team, including a good salesman to convert trial lessons into students (really my biggest weakness as a flying instructor), you need a very good pilot to be able to demonstrate and teach the basic lessons, and you need the motivational inspiring people to keep moral up.

A lot of people have two of the three, very few have all of them, hence the need to recruit a mixture of people who want to instruct for life, and those who want to move on, but still have useful skills to pass on.

Having said that, I cannot stand the people who purely see it as a stepping stone, only want the hours in their book, and don't really care about the end product for the student. I have no time for those instructors, and there are too many of them out there.

In my airline there is a healthy mix of people who got in straight from training with minimum hours, people who worked on the ground in the airline before, and people from an instructing background. If nothing else, it gives us all plenty to talk about on long flights, diversity is always good.

[PPRuNeUser0173]

The jokers that TPandP recruitment are trying to find an MEP and IR Instructor for is suspected to be Flying Time at Shoreham..........I would love to know how many people have applied.

[porridge]

I am reliably informed that salaries at the UK Integrated Schools for suitably qualified IR/MEI Instructors starts for £50k these days and goes up to £60k with additional qualifications. The average pay at modular schools for the same work, however ranges from £20k to £30k.

[porridge]

I am not a regular PPRuNer but a while back LAI (Lookout Attitude Instruments?) posted the following advice on this thread which I pass out the same advice, almost in exact essence of this most excellent post, to my FIC students:
1. Your instructors and friends are right; instructing is excellent for the person doing the instructing. It will improve your flying and aviation knowledge no end.

2. If you do not love the idea of teaching in its own right, DO NOT INSTRUCT. You will not enjoy it and your disinterest will show through to your students.

3. It is hard work. Think of all the briefs, debriefs, write-ups, ground lessons that usually you are not paid for (but are just as important to the progression of YOUR student). All of these require your best effort, despite not paying you anything. Think of that student who just can't quite get how to fly a level turn, but you've had a long week and can't be bothered to spend another five minutes reteaching it...Spend the five minutes!.

4. Recognise that you don't know much! Never ever bull**** a student if you don't know the answer to something. Admit you don't know and seek advice from someone who does. Then go back to your student with the correct answer (and you've both learnt something!). Same goes in the air; if you can't get something across to your student, ask someone else how they teach it. Don't waste your time and the student's flogging a dead horse.

5. Never forget what it was like when you were a student and how much you relied on your instructors (and probably believed 100% of what they told you, without reservation). It is a huge responsibility, so take it seriously.

6. Constantly assess yourself on every trip and every board brief. What could you have done better? Never allow your own personal standards of instruction or flying to slip. Go back to the books regularly to make sure you are teaching things correctly (don't let the bad habits slip in!).

So, to sum up, if you think this still sounds attractive, then go for it. The personal (not financial!) rewards are more than worth it. Seeing your student going off solo, the satisfaction when you finally manage to get them to understand landing without crashing , or seeing them coming back from their skills test with that big grin on their face is what it's all about. Do not do it if it is just a job and hours building to you
At a stage in life when most other people are pushing a golf cart around and enjoying the privileges of a bus pass I just can't get away from the enjoyment I get out of instructing, particularly teaching people to become Instructors. The other plus is on those grey days is when you are are on an Instrument training flight being up there in blinding sunlight when the golfers are out in the gloom and damp you are soaring above the pristine white cloud layer beneath you. These are things you just cannot give up. Keeping a class one medical means keeping fit for your annual Stress ECG, eating healthily and drinking moderately as one's years accumulate. It is worth all the effort and of course the lifestyle prolongs one's time on this planet too.
Money is important, but so is the satisfaction and enjoyment from the job as opposed to the "bus driver" role. Many airline pilots who started as instructors will tell you that the best time, if not pay, that they had was instructing!
Any job relates to how much you put in to it, to what you get out of it. Instructing/teaching of any kind can be the most rewarding occupation you can have in life!

[skippy07]

I am a very experienced instructor/examiner and in recent times i have had several rookie instructors who are finding it difficult financially ask me why the pay and conditions are so bad, considering that they are now a professional pilot and teacher of aviation. I really do not have a definitive answer for them !!

There are many possible reasons, i have asked other instructors what they thought were the reasons for low pay -
Lack of union representation ?
That the job is of little importance in general ?
Bad management of schools ?
Hour builders?
Seasonal weather ?

Obviously financial reward is one of the main reasons for working, the mortgage and bills have to be paid, so serious consideration has to be given prior to moving into this trade and many people have come unstuck.

However if money is no problem for you instructing can be a very pleasant job.

Personally i think that in general that the job of flying instructor needs a new identity and with much better pay, condition and prospects. The skills, qualifications and responsibility of the job are not matched to the rewards.

Also as a previous post has mentioned - you will be a teacher and you need certain qualities to be a successful teacher. Many do not have these qualities !!!

[portsharbourflyer]

Anyone with any long term involvement in flying should know all too well that to make profit from any General Aviation based activity while actually keeping all the paper work legal is difficult.

To increase instructors pay means one thing, pushing up the price of lessons even further, flying lessons have in the last 8 years increased by 40 to 60% in price. Any further increase in lesson price will only further reduce the student supply. Most schools now charge 140 - 160 just for a 152, PA28s are getting close to 200 an hour dual at some schools near London. None of these increases in the price of flight training has led to any increase in instructors pay. I don't really see how the GA industry could support better pay and conditions for instructors.

With fixed axis microlights becoming more capable and cheaper than most group A aircraft, then the future of light aircraft flying as a leisure pursuit is looking quite doubtful.

[RTN11]

Simple supply and demand, surely?

There is an over supply of willing low hours instructors, willing to accept whatever they can get just to get some hours in their book.

There is a shortage in supply of students, as prices have only gone up and up making having a PPL as a leisure activity harder to achieve.

Therefore instructors have to accept what they can get, and the schools have the power as there is a queue of people who would take any instructing job.

For things to change, there would have to either be a shortage of instructors, and I don't see that happening soon. Even an excess of students probably wouldn't turn it around, as the weather would still cut a lot of the work out.

[Cows getting bigger]

The margins are just too tight. There is nobody making serious money from running a flying school - at very best they have about 10% and most will be closer to 5%.

I would love to see instructors getting more than the girl who does accounts or the lad who is supervised by the chief engineer. In fact, it embarrasses me to see pilots trying to live on not much more than the minimum wage. But until the punter recognises that the business is expensive things will stay the same. We are actually guilty in adopting playground politics by trying yo under-cut the opposition. In some way it is a pity that there isn't dome form of flying school cartel. (Slightly tongue in cheek).

PS. I don't buy into any argument that the regulatory burden is the overwhelming factor. It is a combination of regulation, consumables, spares and other operating costs which make a 40 year old Cessna so expensive to operate.

[Genghis the Engineer]

I'd vote primarily operating costs, but the rest's in there somewhere.

I instruct part time - as a CRI I suppose I'm lucky to instruct within a school, and get paid FI(R) rates which are - hour for hour spent on site, about a quarter of my day job as a senior professional engineer. Freelancing I manage to get away with charging about half what my day job pays.

Which I do because I enjoy it massively, but no way could I afford to do it full time. If I went up to full FI I might get back up to what I freelance at, working in a school.

So we have, for all reasonable purposes, no career for FIs, save for pure love of the job.

That is flying of-course. The range of pay for a professional engineer probably runs from about £25k to £60k: around 4:1 from least to best paid qualified professional. For a full-time pilot it probably runs from about £16k to about £160k - 10:1. Both probably run up around £100k in training debt.

The difference is that engineering employers are having to look hard to get the good graduates they need, whilst flying schools and airlines are beating the newly qualified bods away with sticks and the only real "sellers market" for pilot jobs is at the very top - training captain level, hence the high salaries there.

If the market could be modified in some way, so that there was real value to schools in having top-notch flying instructors (rather than just a suitably qualified and not too embarrassing body in a white short), then it might change. But I can't see that happening anytime soon.

G

[Big Pistons Forever]

The only way the situation will change is if ab initio instructing is not the first job of a new commercial pilot. If you required say 500 hrs of flying time before you could take the instructor rating course the supply would instantly dry up and wages would dramatically increase.

Since there is zero likelihood of that happening then I foresee no change. In fact it is going to get worse as the training industry progresses to the MPL. Most of the MPL instructing has to be done by instructors with an airline background which means there will be no work for the traditional career instructor who will only have time in GA aircraft. Since most of the MPL is done in a sim the demand for instructors to teach in light aircraft will be drastically reduced.

[GgW]

There is an over supply of willing low hours instructors, willing to accept whatever they can get just to get some hours in their book.

I think its also getting more and more difficult for low hour instructors to get their first FI job. There are to many experienced instructors in the UK that has been instructing for the last 3-5 years and have not moved on to airlines or TP Operators. As the CFI ( soon to be HOT) we have not recruited a new FI fresh out of instructing school in the last 2 years. Its got nothing to do with the guys capability to become a good FI, its simply because we have a thin pile of CV's from unrestricted and experienced instructors.

To come back to the payment. A busy PPL instructor flies typically between 550 to 650 hours per year. At £30 / flying hour,a full time instructor can expect to take home between £16500 - £19500 per year. I now that one of our competitor schools/clubs pays their poor unrestricted FI's a pathetic £20/ hour with no retainer. Needless to say I basically have a CV from all of them.Places like that should be named and shamed.

[RTN11]

GgW, sounds like you are running a decent outfit there, £30 an hour is quite fair.

A lot of places only pay £20/hr flat rate, and I know some that pay £15/hr and £10/hr for trial lessons.

The other problem is that some schools take on far too many instructors, as they are self employed and have no retainer, so when the school is busy they can maximise the use of the aircraft, but when it's quiet or the weather is particularly bad, the instructors are stuck.

I've known guys fly between 400 and 500 hours, so even at your £30 an hour it's only £12,000 - £15,000, and at £20 an hour it's really not enough to live on.

[skippy07]

I personally know several very good instructors who are desperately looking for new jobs and are looking outside of aviation, which i think is very sad !! They have " had a go " at making a living from instructing but found it just too difficult to move forward financially and feel there are no prospects for the future - and these are guys who are true aviation nuts.

Many think a good solution is to have another non flying job and instruct part time when you can, but this is not good for the punters who want regular bookings with the same instructor.

I am not sure what the implications of EASA will be for instructing in the future ?