Iran 'pimps' Tu-154 - for F-5 ejection seat tests

[Lyneham Lad]

Bizarre story of the day on a Flight International blog:-

Just when we thought that Iran couldn't do anything else crazy linked to its aged fleet of Northrop F-5 fighters (following its foray into developing the V-tailed "Saegeh" version), a newly published image has raised many eyebrows here on Flightglobal.

Hosted on the Airliners.net site, the picture shows a modified Tupolev Tu-154M, formerly flown by Iran Air Tours, with an F-5 cockpit section now grafted onto the front-top of its vertical stabiliser. Image supplier "Iranian Spotters" describes the combo as intended to support tests of an Iranian-made ejection seat, and says the same aircraft will also carry out future work carrying indigenous unmanned air vehicles.

If you do one thing today, check out the image here. (http://www.airliners.net/photo/Iranian-Aircraft-Manufacturing/Tupolev-Tu-154M--/2150303/L/)

[sled dog]

Bizzare, putting it mildly.

[Just This Once...]

Rather resourceful and with no vertical obstructions in the way a good way to test the seat. Would like to see the airflow once the canopy has gone but at first look this looks viable to me.

http://cdn-www.airliners.net/aviation-photos/middle/3/0/3/2150303.jpg

[Rosevidney1]

Getting into it looks to be challenge enough but once there it will be the best view in the house!

[Gemini Twin]

Wouldn't it have been easier to use a rocket sled for seat trials?

[Milo Minderbinder]

They've been watching Thunderbirds
Its their version of the Fireflash!

[Tiger_mate]

If it is possible to control (fly by wire) the entire aircraft from that cockpit, this could give rise to some pretty scary weaponry, of the kind trialled by the japanese in 1945.

[Pontius Navigator]

Close escort fighter?

[Courtney Mil]

First test ejection could see the entire tail section deprting company withthe test bed. Think about it.

[500N]

Courtney
One would hope that they do a few ground tests first with
some dummies ?

PM sent.

[Yozzer]

From another website: (No mention of ejector seats)
http://cencio4.files.wordpress.com/2012/08/saeqeh-v.jpg

On Aug. 21, the first avionics and radar testbed for what it’s thought to be the Saeqeh V fighter jet, made a sudden appearance on the images taken during the presentation of six types of new military equipment held in Tehran.

In fact, according to FARS, the aircraft was showcased during a presentation that included the fourth generation of Fateh 110 missile, Bonian 4 marine engine, Armita space test laboratory, Aras tactical vehicle, Vafa mortar-launcher, and Shahed navigation system.

The front section of the new fighter (an advanced version of the Saeqeh, a modified F-5 with Hornet-like tails) is attached to the tail of a Tu-154 testbed that will be used for high speed tests.

Although we don’t know anything of this “new” aircraft, the military significance of this alleged next generation plane is at least questionable. However, this experimental plane shows that the Iranian aerospace industry is quite active, not only on UAV (Unmanned Aerial Vehicle) technologies.

[Courtney Mil]

That would be a shame, my friend, 500N. I could say that a sensible nation that was resourcing a proper bang seat reasearch programme would do even more testing and engineering before the first trails. But this is a nation who are happy to do the most audatious engineering jobs - you have to admire them for that.

My guess is that, without a lot of internal structural work, the first bang will put a huge moment on the front of the fin and rear fuselage. The resulting, gaping hole will create some interesting aerodymic characteristics and, if that doesn't do it, any subsequent tests will simply compound the damage. If they do some ground tests first, the damage will be there already.

I hope they put the trial videos on You Tube.

[chiglet]

If it is possible to control (fly by wire) the entire aircraft from that cockpit, this could give rise to some pretty scary weaponry, of the kind trialled by the japanese in 1945.

AND the Luftwaffe...not forgetting the Americans.:ok:

[BEagle]

Surely the fuselage fore-section is going to induce both an adverse tortional bending moment on the fin structure and a destabilising lateral stability characteristic on the host aircraft?

I'm not sure of the weight of a bang seat, but that much weight so far aft of the CG suddenly released on test would probably induce quite an interesting transient pitching moment.

But if it all works, it'll have been a very clever idea.

[DADDY-OH!]

Buccaneer fitted with rearward firing missile ring a bell......?

[Easy Street]

Give it a set of rotor blades, a ramp, a smoke generator and hang some weapons under the horizontal stabiliser. They could sell it to the UK as "an entire air force in one airframe". The beancounters would jump at it!

[Lonewolf_50]

I wonder if they added some ballast forward of the CG to compensate for the weight. Likewise, I wonder if they beefed up the tail section to accomodate some of the odd loads the vertical stab might see when the plane turns.

Interesting idea for a test bed, if they've thought through some of the engineering bits.

[Torque Tonight]

Don't let O'Leary see that. Imagine how much he could charge for an upgrade to the first class seat.

I too have visions of the F5+tailpane departing company from the Tu154 the first time they do a live ejection. I know Tupolevs are built like Brunel's bridges but surely it's not stressed for this kind of thing.:eek:

[27mm]

Interesting - look closely at the cockpit; it looks to me that the "bullet" atop the Tu-154's fin is actually protruding into the rear of it. Also, there is a small lump on the upper nose of the cockpit - wonder what that's for? The Iranians have long been known for some clever reverse engineering and also for even cleverer bluffing....:cool:

[KiloB]

Started as an air-to-air refuelling accident and they decided to keep it!;)

KB

[Harley Quinn]

27mm, Lump = camera fairing? useful to see the seat as it leaves. For the rest I would imagine it is just plain structure to attach to the fin, oh and the seat as well.

[Pontius Navigator]

Mrs PN's considered view (3 seconds) is it's a mockup.

As for downward moment when a seat if fired, if it is a rocket seat that will surely be minimal? CofG wise is certainly an issue presumably with a pitch down.

[Courtney Mil]

Aft CofG? No...

http://cdn-www.airliners.net/aviation-photos/photos/5/5/3/1554355.jpg

[downsizer]

How long before we get a VC10 photo....:}

[Pontius Navigator]

How would a thousand of these versus say 40 fully armed F-22s fair? Turning it into a war of attrition seems like their best option.

Nah, target rich environment :)

[TBM-Legend]

Now who said that quantity has a quality all of it's own?:confused:

[Lyneham Lad]

Now who said that quantity has a quality all of it's own?:confused:

Stalin (?)

[Milo Minderbinder]

"Nah, target rich environment"

What if the targets don't mind dying and are prepared to come at you head on in the face of certain interception? Who wins a fight of attrition when the number of defending missiles is less than the number of would-be suicides?

[sisemen]

A novel idea to overcome a problem. Pity they decided to instal downward-firing bang seats in their "new" fighter :}

[Pontius Navigator]

Milo, old Israeli proverb.

Quality over quantity but it is best in large numbers.

[Q-RTF-X]

A few not unreasonable concerns expressed on the possible risks of some sort of structural failure during tests. The TU 154 is a pretty sturdy beast but, I wonder what the condition now is with regard to basic structural integrity corrosion wise. If that airframe has been around in Iran for any length of time, one might start to worry on that side of things also. This might well be an additional factor; the straw that broke the camel's back even

[TWT]

If it's successful,a video will be released to the world as is done with their missile tests.If not,no video.

[KiloB]

I wonder if they know the story of the Embraer which departed and broke up just because one half of the Stabiliser deicing boot came loose?

KB

[Wageslave]

Does anyone here really think that the iranians wouldn't have thought about c of g problems? Or that a mere 600lb-ish of disposable weight would seriously affect an aircraft of that size? Or that they didn't do a thorough stress / aerodynamic analysis first? Guys, these people are building atomic weapons (ie space launchers and re-entry vehicles or something damn close), they aren't rank amateurs (like us). If they can stick twin tails and associated controls on an old F5 they can certainly do this.

Anyway, what's to say the Ayatollahs Peoples "Democratic" chop-yer-hands-off Republics Holy Propaganda Bureau isn't p!ssing itself laughing at the effect their plasticene and cardboard joke mockup is having on the infidels?

Bit more imagination required methinks. On both counts.

[Heathrow Harry]

Ryanair are planning to sell similar seats as "Exec lounge"

[The Helpful Stacker]

Downsizer - This (http://www.vc10.net/History/Images/VC10-Incident.jpg) one?

[zkdli]

I'm confused I thought this was a new caption competition thread :)

[Milo Minderbinder]

surely drag / turbulence over the tail once the canopy has been ejected is the bigger problem?

[Courtney Mil]

Guys, these people are building atomic weapons (ie space launchers and re-entry vehicles or something damn close), they aren't rank amateurs

So it IS true. I knew it!!