New Amsterdam Airport at Lelystad

[SATCO]

What's all this nonsense I'm hearing about the above?! Apparently EZY aren't much fussed about not being consulted. Anyone know anything?

[green granite]

Have a look at this (http://www.dutchnews.nl/news/archives/2012/03/lelystad_can_become_a_tourist.php)

[Heathrow Harry]

middle of nowhere

[WHBM]

middle of nowhere
Isn't that where all those who know nothing about aviation, up to government minister level, think airports should be located ?

[Tableview]

It's not 'in the middle of nowhere'.

It's 45 minutes by rail to Amsterdam and an hour to Schiphol. There are few nations on earth who are better at making things work than the Dutch, particularly when it comes to transportation, and if SPL is at capacity, this looks like a good solution.

[FR-]

Has Ryanair written all over it if the local government has a sack full of Euros

fr-

[eastern wiseguy]

Feels like Lelystad when you land on the Polderlaan......long old taxi in/out

[PAXboy]

A government realising that the main hub is getting full?
Then looking at alternatives?
Considering options for non-connecting flights that need not go to the hub?
Wanting to ensure that the hub remains clear for being a good hub into the future when other hubs might be saturated?

This is shocking news. I do hope British govts never get to hear of such outrageous behaviour... :hmm:

[LN-KGL]

Contrary to most of you here, I have both taken off and landed at Lelystad airport. Talking about "middle of nowhere" in the Netherlands makes me laugh. From Lelystad you can almost reach any corner of the country by car in less than two hours.

[Phileas Fogg]

And RTM, indeed Valkenburg, are so far away from AMS that they need to select Lelystad with it's teeny weeny runway?

[Fairdealfrank]

Perhaps the idea is to divert the point-to-point holiday charter flights and no frills business away from Schiphol so that it maintains its status as one of the five main European hubs.

In other words, following the UK system of segregating the various business models between different airports. The UK has done it by accident through supply and demand economics (the lack of available LHR slots and the consequent expense of acquiring them), the Netherlands may do it by government planning(?). Schiphol would become more like Heathrow in this respect with Lelystad taking on a Stansted or Luton role, albeit on a smaller scale.

Surprised that Schiphol is reaching saturation point already, or is this sensible forward planning for the future?

[davidjohnson6]

If Lelystad becomes capable of handling A320 / B737 aircraft, how big an impact would there be on Eindhoven ?

[planenut321]

London East Airport anyone? :E

[Guglielmo]

London East exists, it's called London Southend.

[Heathrow Harry]

London Far East Airport

[Jippie]

Schiphol is getting busy thus the government is looking at other options (how clever). Problem is that both Schiphol and Rotterdam lie in one of the most densely populated areas of Europe. Eindhoven and Lelystad have been appointed as overflow airports, that can take away the strain from Schiphol and at a lower cost). Point-to-Point flights can then indeed use Lelystad or Eindhoven. It doesn't mean Schiphol won't grow, probably just slowers as capacity is swifted away to less noise sensitive regions!

[LN-KGL]

A bit more about Leystad (LEY) and where it is in relation to AMS SIDs (in orange) and STARs (in yellow).

https://dl.dropbox.com/u/23931688/Maps/LEY_AMS-STAR-SID.jpg

LEY sits more and less right below the main artery in to AMS from the northeast and east. The flight level of the passing planes above LEY will normally be at 7,000 feet or more.

Lelystad must be upgraded to become an overflow airport for AMS. Today's 1,200 m long runway have to be lengthened and I presume today's terminal isn't large enough.

https://maps.google.com/maps?ll=52.455329,5.524406&spn=0.000105,0.132093&t=h&z=14&layer=c&cbll=52.45541,5.524556&panoid=8KQ6rIl8JyznoiIV6KN5WQ&cbp=12,358.92,,0,-4.39

[jabird]

So the Dutch consider an off-shore airport and then reach the more sensible conclusion of using an existing runway which can be reached from major population centres in / around Amsterdam within the hour.

Meanwhile, in the UK, we cast aside the obvious usage of existing London area airports (of which there are many) and place our hopes on an island airport which really is, you guessed it, in the middle of nowhere.

Then again, AMS already has 6 runways, but lacks terminal capacity, whereas LHR still only has 2.

If this airport does develop into a low cost base of the 2m pax pa mark, will there be a direct rail link into the terminal, or just a bus from Lelystad?

[davidjohnson6]

jabird - I think you're oversimplifying the comparison. The Dutch have just one airport for Amsterdam which happens to be a megahub. Buried in that hub are a lot of LCC and holiday flights which add little or no no-2nd-checkin connectivity to the hub - think Arkefly, Corendon, Easyjet and Transavia.

In the UK these flights have already been separated out into a different airport (Gatwick, Luton and Stansted) leaving at the UK megahub just the flights which truly add to network connectivity. Lelystad seems to be a plan for Amsterdam to have its own equivalent to Luton.

If all the holiday flights and non interlining airlines move to Lelystad and Schiphol is still full, *then* the Dutch have a problem equivalent to Heathrow

[RAT 5]

If LHR can operate an ATC system to accommodate LGW,LTN & STN under its armpit and up its back side, then surely AMS ATC can find a solution to accommodate Lelystad. What is clogging up the issue is all this farm manure about keeping the cows and chickens awake. What the Dutch politics needs is a strong leader who stands up and says this the way it's going to be for the good of the whole country's economics and job creation; and all you tree huggers can **** off. Trouble is that will never happen because there are so many political vested interests who never vote for anyone who told them to shut the **** up and get on with the job. Politics by stagnation. As Churchill said he was," not scared by action but inaction." The idea of Lelystad was gven a green light in 2003 and then cancelled. Here they are 11 years later after nothing.
Let the Dutch have a real forward thinking vision. Build a major expo centre for all the large fares a la NEC at BHX or Palexpo in GVA: build a large conference centre, a suitable hotel, perhaps a theme park, a short motorway link to A6, a high-speed rail link to Amsterdam west and Germany east and south to Eindhoven. There are so many new houses in the region and the people need local jobs. The release of pressure on west Holland for all the ground based businesses and on Schiphol for all the airborne traffic would be significant. That plus the boost in local jobs would be a real injection for long term economic growth for the whole country. The project should be more than just an airport, but that would take the political vision and balls to make such a massive capital investment decision.

[Phileas Fogg]

It needs to be recognises that AMS already has more than one airport, in the shape of RTM, just that the Dutch are more honest than the Brits, and mad Irishmen, in the labelling of their airports ... It's quicker to get from RTM to central Amsterdam that it is to get from LGW/STN/Lydd/Oxford blah blah blah to central London, than it is to get from PIK to central Glasgow, than it is to get from Hahn to civilisation etc. etc. etc.

[racedo]

Rat

You running for parliment somewhere ?

[Phileas Fogg]

"The idea of Lelystad was gven a green light in 2003 and then cancelled. Here they are 11 years later after nothing."

Phuck me, I went to sleep last evening imagining it was 2012, I awaken today and apparently it is 2014!

[jabird]

jabird - I think you're oversimplifying the comparison. The Dutch have just one airport for Amsterdam which happens to be a megahub. Buried in that hub are a lot of LCC and holiday flights which add little or no no-2nd-checkin connectivity to the hub - think Arkefly, Corendon, Easyjet and Transavia.

Not at all, I was pointing out that LEY might well be a sensible option as on overflow airport. I totally agree with your analysis. However, if it is going to work, is 2m pax pa enough? Those Easyjet passengers in particular are going to want to head straight to central AMS. Maybe the new airport could create a competitive environment in which Easy would pay more to stay in AMS, who knows?

The whole island is "new" development, the runway is aligned away from the major population centres, and it could easily have a rail feed into the terminal.

However to do all this, aren't we looking at an airport which is closer in size to LTN / BHX etc?

[jabird]

It needs to be recognises that AMS already has more than one airport, in the shape of RTM, just that the Dutch are more honest than the Brits, and mad Irishmen, in the labelling of their airports ... It's quicker to get from RTM to central Amsterdam that it is to get from LGW/STN/Lydd/Oxford blah blah blah to central London

With a taxi straight to R Centraal and a quick jump on Thalys or the Fyra rustbuckets, I think you could get from RTM to central Amsterdam in less time than you could get from the Polderbaan + slog through Schiphol.

The question over RTM would be whether or not it could take more flights. Does it not have far more of a noise and slot control problem than LEY would have, if allowed to expand?

[RAT 5]

Rat
You running for parliment somewhere ?

Not at this time. I'm more thinker and let the experts look after the doing. Sadly, too many politicians are neither; long term that is. Expansion at RTM would have major noise problems. I don't know what their movement quota is, but it's not enough. I doubt they have the 'job creation' card to play either. Don't be constrained by thinking that all LoCo's carry AMS bound pax. I've travelled with many who are on business to elsewhere in NL. It's the train links from SPL that are the carrot. RTM & EHN just don't have those. For the charter pax I suspect the majority do not come from AMS. EHN & MST would have boomed years ago for charters if the noise lobby had let them. Put a rail link into both those airports, get realistic with noise limitations and watch the fireworks blast the economy. LEY would have the same effect if done properly and completely. That would be the necessary solution, not a wishy washy shed in a field solution. Usually when the Dutch do something they do it with the infrastructure they completely. I'm surprised they are dragging their feet on this one.