Citation X

[rspheiff]

I am looking for any info Technical and from a pilots viewpoint what theCitation X is like. are there major maintenance issues. Dispatchreliability.

[glum]

Plane Cessna CITATION-X (http://www.smartcockpit.com/plane/CESSNA/CITATION-X.html)

[rspheiff]

Thank you Glum. i got that. i am more looking for personal experiances on the X:ok:

[CE750 Pilot]

One maintenance item that Cessna updated recently is to add eddy current inspection of the fuel panels instead of just a visual inspection. Corrosion of the fuel panels seems to be fairly common. I don't know how widespread it is, but corrosion extending into the wings has been an issue on some Xs. I'm not sure of the fix on that, but if I were buying I'd be looking closely for that.

A couple of complaints I have with the X is that I think the air cycle machines are a bit weak for the plane. It can be hard to cool down - the cockpit, anyway. Also, at ISA + temps, the plane is a slow climber with the anti-ice protection on.

I have only flown 2 Xs and they both had/have a high dispatch rate. Having a full time mechanic, though, is key to that.

I think overall it is a great plane and I love flying it.

Let me know if you have any specific questions.

[orion1210]

I'll second CE750 Pilot on the ACM's.

I've changed a number of them over the years. If you start to smell oil, get them checked asap however the newer 'air bearing' acm will negate this problem.

[Guptar]

CE750 pilot

Does the current Flight Planning Guide reflect the performance of the winglet equiped aircraft or non winglet.

Just curious, the Flight Planning Guide shows some impressive landing performance numbers. Eg at 1000 pressure hight, 25 deg c, 26000lbs landing weight, it indicates you need 2980ft from 50' abpve the threshold. No credit for thrust reverse.

Is that distance realistic for an avarage line pilot.

What distance would you save with full reverse.

Most other types of Cessna I have flown (up to C441) I seem to use significantly less that the charted distance without realy trying, so just wondering if the jet is the same.

[500 above]

What distance would you save with full reverse.

None. TR's are not factored in landing calculations. It's just a 'nicety'.

[wondering]

Not wanting to be picky but landing distances are test pilot numbers w/o flare, positive landing, max brakes.......you get the idea. It´s prudent to add a fudge factor even if you are a private ops. I don´t think your 'average' passenger will appreciate such landings ;)

[CE750 Pilot]

The current Flight Planning Guide that I can see on the Customer Support website is from 2004 and is for the 750s without winglets.

I have only done landings using thrust reversers and can tell you they are VERY effective on the 750. So, I can only say the landing numbers can certainly be achieved comfortably using TRs.

There are takeoff charts (for a wet runway) that include credit for a TR.

[safelife]

The X is one of the few aircraft which perform better than their manual suggests.
Fuel wise and performance wise. I'm comfortable to land it within the given distances, and I'm just an average pilot.
Reverse? Once the buckets unlock, you will feel the restraint of the seat belts. And if run them up all the way on landing you better already start reducing thrust as soon as the engines respond, otherwise you will be moving backwards.

[FlyTCI]

I came into Santa Monica yesterday which is pretty much the shortest runway my employer will go into, 4973'. We were just shy of 26000# for landing weight, max structural is 31800. Without being too aggressive with the brakes but fairly aggressive with the TR's we easily exited at A2 which leaves probably about 1000' of the runway. Wind was about 6 kts on the nose and temp 24C.

So yes, the X performs very well on landing.

[CE750 Pilot]

The shortest we use is 4000 ft, depending on the airport and conditions. We have to be light, dry runway, etc., but the X can do it.

[Steak&Kidney_Pie]

If I hear one more pilot give out the :mad: story that AFM data is test pilot data I will explode :ugh: :=

Wondering's words are complete :mad::mad:

The data is factored for the average pilot, that does not require an exceptional skill and can be achieved normally in daily service.

Speak to the aircraft manufacturers. They will confirm it.

If they produced test pilot data, it would be shot down by lawyers.

PM if you want the regulatory references for the FAA and JAR/EASA. :ok:

I can also provide email evidence from Dassault to back it up.

[Guptar]

On touchdown does the aircraft stay planted, given its spoilers seem very tiny especially when compared to latest Falcons that seem to have acres of spoilers.....why arent the roll spoilers setup to activate on landing. Surely that would help some. only thing I can think of is maybe they would give a pitch up tendancy.

Why no auto spoilers or autobrakes, even the TEN doesnt seem to have this.

I do hope the traditional interior is offered on the TEN, as the new "funky" modern look with its angular lines and space age look is ghastly.

Regarding reverse, can you modulate it with the reverse levers. They seem tiny and of the all or nothing variety.

It will be interestign to see the weight saved between the proline 21 and the Garmin avionic. Kingair that are given the Garmin treatment lose somethign like 320lbs, and fills a skip bin full of wire, brackets, mounting trays, power supplies and sundry items.

Disapointed to se the TEN still doesnt allow access to the baggage compartment from the main cabin therough the lav. The external baggage door looks tiny........can you get a hard case bicycle case through it and into the cargo compartment. Againm the Falcons seem to be much better in this regard.

All new Falcons are sertified for 6 deg steep approach, will Cessna offer that capability to allow them into London City Airport

[fleigle]

Guptar,
The brakes are excellent and with the reverser buckets out it is necessary to hold the nose down.

[His dudeness]

On touchdown does the aircraft stay planted, given its spoilers seem very tiny especially when compared to latest Falcons that seem to have acres of spoilers.....why arent the roll spoilers setup to activate on landing. Surely that would help some. only thing I can think of is maybe they would give a pitch up tendancy.

Why no auto spoilers or autobrakes, even the TEN doesnt seem to have this.

The obvious answer is...money. It would cost Cessna more to develop, test and certify the automated systems than their 'traditional' manual one. The numbers they achieve are good enough me thinks. In 'my' current Cessna (C680), the spoilers give a good deal of pitch up. How hard to control that would be in a 750 I have no clue, but I guess they just said: no, our rwy numbers are good enough and that auto thingy would be modern. A word that is abhorred in Wichita....;)

I do hope the traditional interior is offered on the TEN, as the new "funky" modern look with its angular lines and space age look is ghastly.

A matter of taste and again, bucks.

Regarding reverse, can you modulate it with the reverse levers. They seem tiny and of the all or nothing variety.
I have never seen all or nothing reverse levers and since on the 650/680 the levers are the same I think I can say with out having flown the X, that there is no problem in dealing/operating/modulating the T/Rs...

It will be interestign to see the weight saved between the proline 21 and the Garmin avionic. Kingair that are given the Garmin treatment lose somethign like 320lbs, and fills a skip bin full of wire, brackets, mounting trays, power supplies and sundry items.

AFAIK the X had Honeywell mounted and not Collins Proline 21, next I doubt that one could safe 320lbs between a PL21 and a Garmin installation. Maybe between a Collins 85/traditional and the Garmin...or the old Honeywell stuff and Garmin. The cabin plug will help to eat that up, I guess.


Disapointed to se the TEN still doesnt allow access to the baggage compartment from the main cabin therough the lav. The external baggage door looks tiny........can you get a hard case bicycle case through it and into the cargo compartment. Againm the Falcons seem to be much better in this regard.

Since the bagg comp is not pressurized, how should they accomplish access in flight? That would be a major reingeneering task. From experience with both, accesable and inaccessable bagg compartments I`d say that this is nothing one really needs. And it puts a fire hazard in the cabin than rather in the hold.
The Falcons play in another, higher class IMHO

All new Falcons are sertified for 6 deg steep approach, will Cessna offer that capability to allow them into London City Airport [/QUOTE]

[Cowboy-76]

I fly a Citation X and on the whole His Dudeness's comments are pretty much spot on.

I do have the following comments:

After touch down upon and getting the spoilers out it does stay well planted until you deploy the TR's at which point the nose will come off the ground again if you have not got significant forward pressure on the column.

The TR levers are very easy to manipulate and are not all or nothing. They are exactly the same as the Sovereign that I flew before and are easier to use than the CL605.

The standard Citation X has Honeywell Primus Avionics with CRT Displays not light weight LCD displays so there will be a significant weight saving there over that. But I am sure the Garmin would not be that much different to Collins ProLine 21 which also uses LCD screens.

The Baggage Bay on the Citation X is pressurised unlike the Sovereign, XLS etc. but that said it would be very nice to be able to get into during flight and you are correct the door is too small. The baggage bay on the Sovereign is much nicer but not pressurised.

I doubt if Cessna will certify the Ten for 6 degree approaches, also London City is too short to take off at a sensible weight in the Citation X

If you have a Citation X the best thing for it much like any other aircraft is to be used on a regular basis and that will keep the maintenance issues down.

All in all I love the Citation X but it does not really suit everybody, it uses a lot of runway and a lot of gas but its quick!

[His dudeness]

The Baggage Bay on the Citation X is pressurised unlike the Sovereign

I really didn´t know that one. One learns something every day. Thanks, cowboy!

[Guptar]

A couple of questions come to mind.

Does the FMS give you the optimum and max xruize levels for your weight like the heavy iron FMS does.

Do you have a copy of that chart?

Also, is flex or derate thrust takeoffs used on this aircraft or allways max.

[CE750 Pilot]

The FMS will give you optimized and max flight levels except for the Xs with winglets. Honeywell has not released FMS data yet for those. For now, you must look up takeoff and landing data, optimum cruise data, etc until the FMS software is updated.

There is an app for iPads and software for computers to calculate all performance data. Very helpful.

All takeoffs are with max power.

[nomorecatering]

Citation X pousando em Angra. Cmte Eduardo Fabiano Santana - YouTube

These guys put an X into a 3000' runway without much of a problem. Touchdown right on the numbers.


Beechcraft Adds Garmin G5000 as 400XPR Option | Aviation International News (http://www.ainonline.com/aviation-news/nbaa-convention-news/2013-10-21/beechcraft-adds-garmin-g5000-400xpr-option)

Buys can choose between the Pro-line 21 and the Garmin G5000. The Garmin setup being 200 lbs lighter than the P21.

Has anyone had some experience with the G5000. is it as capable as the pro-line gear.

[nomorecatering]

Why would you ask that?

[nomorecatering]

I was simply illustrating a piece of info that shows a comparison between the Garmin & Collins kit.

[ukplane1]

Hello i'm NOT a pilot but looking at an citation X for work purposes.

Would a citation X be able to land at London Southend airport?

Would a citation X be able to takeoff with max passengers and then fly onward to Nice LFMN Airport?


If this is not possible i may look at Cambridge airport EGSC.

Thanks

Nathan

[Richard101]

Hi Nathan,


The Citation X shouldn't have any problem getting in and out of Southend and making it direct to Nice. At MTOW the 'X' has a take-off distance of about 5200ft and the runway at Southend has an available take-off run of just over 5700ft.


Cambridge would also work just fine for the 'X'

[ukplane1]

Thanks for the quick reply and informative answer.

Nathan.

[3646flyer]

Nathan,

The X shouldn't have a problem there, but with the runway slope it may be limited slightly on hot days when the runway is wet if the winds favor the downslope runway. If you are only going to Nice, then it shouldn't be a problem for takeoff. As long as you don't plan on carrying excessive amounts of reserve fuel into Southend and the temp isn't in the 30s, then the X will work fine. Just keep an eye on the Basic Operating Weight of the X that you plan on using/buying. This is basically the weight of the plane before adding passengers. Since there is a maximum zero fuel weight, you want to make sure that the X you are using doesn't have too much extra equipment installed. I have seen some very heavy Citation Xs that don't allow for a full passenger (8 generally. 9 if you want someone sitting on the toilet) and baggage weight (300lbs). To fill a X with passengers like that means not a lot of personal space onboard. Have you thought about at CL-300 since it is a short hop you want to use it for? It would give everyone a bit more elbow room.

[ITFC1]

I've flown out many times in Nice in the X, its not the slightest issue in the X in or out, private or commercial.

[Guptar]

Has anyone flown the X+, curious as to hows its performing against against book numers and in comparison to earlier models. Some people have said the old model has a poor 2ns segment climb performance at hot or high elevations.

Has Cessna addressed the systems issues in the X+ that have been mentioned here.