Citation X
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Citation X
I am looking for any info Technical and from a pilots viewpoint what theCitation X is like. are there major maintenance issues. Dispatchreliability.
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One maintenance item that Cessna updated recently is to add eddy current inspection of the fuel panels instead of just a visual inspection. Corrosion of the fuel panels seems to be fairly common. I don't know how widespread it is, but corrosion extending into the wings has been an issue on some Xs. I'm not sure of the fix on that, but if I were buying I'd be looking closely for that.
A couple of complaints I have with the X is that I think the air cycle machines are a bit weak for the plane. It can be hard to cool down - the cockpit, anyway. Also, at ISA + temps, the plane is a slow climber with the anti-ice protection on.
I have only flown 2 Xs and they both had/have a high dispatch rate. Having a full time mechanic, though, is key to that.
I think overall it is a great plane and I love flying it.
Let me know if you have any specific questions.
A couple of complaints I have with the X is that I think the air cycle machines are a bit weak for the plane. It can be hard to cool down - the cockpit, anyway. Also, at ISA + temps, the plane is a slow climber with the anti-ice protection on.
I have only flown 2 Xs and they both had/have a high dispatch rate. Having a full time mechanic, though, is key to that.
I think overall it is a great plane and I love flying it.
Let me know if you have any specific questions.
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I'll second CE750 Pilot on the ACM's.
I've changed a number of them over the years. If you start to smell oil, get them checked asap however the newer 'air bearing' acm will negate this problem.
I've changed a number of them over the years. If you start to smell oil, get them checked asap however the newer 'air bearing' acm will negate this problem.
Last edited by orion1210; 9th Apr 2015 at 05:29.
CE750 pilot
Does the current Flight Planning Guide reflect the performance of the winglet equiped aircraft or non winglet.
Just curious, the Flight Planning Guide shows some impressive landing performance numbers. Eg at 1000 pressure hight, 25 deg c, 26000lbs landing weight, it indicates you need 2980ft from 50' abpve the threshold. No credit for thrust reverse.
Is that distance realistic for an avarage line pilot.
What distance would you save with full reverse.
Most other types of Cessna I have flown (up to C441) I seem to use significantly less that the charted distance without realy trying, so just wondering if the jet is the same.
Does the current Flight Planning Guide reflect the performance of the winglet equiped aircraft or non winglet.
Just curious, the Flight Planning Guide shows some impressive landing performance numbers. Eg at 1000 pressure hight, 25 deg c, 26000lbs landing weight, it indicates you need 2980ft from 50' abpve the threshold. No credit for thrust reverse.
Is that distance realistic for an avarage line pilot.
What distance would you save with full reverse.
Most other types of Cessna I have flown (up to C441) I seem to use significantly less that the charted distance without realy trying, so just wondering if the jet is the same.
Not wanting to be picky but landing distances are test pilot numbers w/o flare, positive landing, max brakes.......you get the idea. Itīs prudent to add a fudge factor even if you are a private ops. I donīt think your 'average' passenger will appreciate such landings 
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The current Flight Planning Guide that I can see on the Customer Support website is from 2004 and is for the 750s without winglets.
I have only done landings using thrust reversers and can tell you they are VERY effective on the 750. So, I can only say the landing numbers can certainly be achieved comfortably using TRs.
There are takeoff charts (for a wet runway) that include credit for a TR.
I have only done landings using thrust reversers and can tell you they are VERY effective on the 750. So, I can only say the landing numbers can certainly be achieved comfortably using TRs.
There are takeoff charts (for a wet runway) that include credit for a TR.
The X is one of the few aircraft which perform better than their manual suggests.
Fuel wise and performance wise. I'm comfortable to land it within the given distances, and I'm just an average pilot.
Reverse? Once the buckets unlock, you will feel the restraint of the seat belts. And if run them up all the way on landing you better already start reducing thrust as soon as the engines respond, otherwise you will be moving backwards.
Fuel wise and performance wise. I'm comfortable to land it within the given distances, and I'm just an average pilot.
Reverse? Once the buckets unlock, you will feel the restraint of the seat belts. And if run them up all the way on landing you better already start reducing thrust as soon as the engines respond, otherwise you will be moving backwards.
Last edited by safelife; 8th Sep 2012 at 16:53.
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I came into Santa Monica yesterday which is pretty much the shortest runway my employer will go into, 4973'. We were just shy of 26000# for landing weight, max structural is 31800. Without being too aggressive with the brakes but fairly aggressive with the TR's we easily exited at A2 which leaves probably about 1000' of the runway. Wind was about 6 kts on the nose and temp 24C.
So yes, the X performs very well on landing.
So yes, the X performs very well on landing.
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If I hear one more pilot give out the 
story that AFM data is test pilot data I will explode 
Wondering's words are complete
The data is factored for the average pilot, that does not require an exceptional skill and can be achieved normally in daily service.
Speak to the aircraft manufacturers. They will confirm it.
If they produced test pilot data, it would be shot down by lawyers.
PM if you want the regulatory references for the FAA and JAR/EASA.
I can also provide email evidence from Dassault to back it up.
story that AFM data is test pilot data I will explode Wondering's words are complete
The data is factored for the average pilot, that does not require an exceptional skill and can be achieved normally in daily service.
Speak to the aircraft manufacturers. They will confirm it.
If they produced test pilot data, it would be shot down by lawyers.
PM if you want the regulatory references for the FAA and JAR/EASA.
I can also provide email evidence from Dassault to back it up.
Last edited by Steak&Kidney_Pie; 9th Sep 2012 at 18:18.
On touchdown does the aircraft stay planted, given its spoilers seem very tiny especially when compared to latest Falcons that seem to have acres of spoilers.....why arent the roll spoilers setup to activate on landing. Surely that would help some. only thing I can think of is maybe they would give a pitch up tendancy.
Why no auto spoilers or autobrakes, even the TEN doesnt seem to have this.
I do hope the traditional interior is offered on the TEN, as the new "funky" modern look with its angular lines and space age look is ghastly.
Regarding reverse, can you modulate it with the reverse levers. They seem tiny and of the all or nothing variety.
It will be interestign to see the weight saved between the proline 21 and the Garmin avionic. Kingair that are given the Garmin treatment lose somethign like 320lbs, and fills a skip bin full of wire, brackets, mounting trays, power supplies and sundry items.
Disapointed to se the TEN still doesnt allow access to the baggage compartment from the main cabin therough the lav. The external baggage door looks tiny........can you get a hard case bicycle case through it and into the cargo compartment. Againm the Falcons seem to be much better in this regard.
All new Falcons are sertified for 6 deg steep approach, will Cessna offer that capability to allow them into London City Airport
Why no auto spoilers or autobrakes, even the TEN doesnt seem to have this.
I do hope the traditional interior is offered on the TEN, as the new "funky" modern look with its angular lines and space age look is ghastly.
Regarding reverse, can you modulate it with the reverse levers. They seem tiny and of the all or nothing variety.
It will be interestign to see the weight saved between the proline 21 and the Garmin avionic. Kingair that are given the Garmin treatment lose somethign like 320lbs, and fills a skip bin full of wire, brackets, mounting trays, power supplies and sundry items.
Disapointed to se the TEN still doesnt allow access to the baggage compartment from the main cabin therough the lav. The external baggage door looks tiny........can you get a hard case bicycle case through it and into the cargo compartment. Againm the Falcons seem to be much better in this regard.
All new Falcons are sertified for 6 deg steep approach, will Cessna offer that capability to allow them into London City Airport
Last edited by Guptar; 11th Sep 2012 at 07:31.
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On touchdown does the aircraft stay planted, given its spoilers seem very tiny especially when compared to latest Falcons that seem to have acres of spoilers.....why arent the roll spoilers setup to activate on landing. Surely that would help some. only thing I can think of is maybe they would give a pitch up tendancy.
Why no auto spoilers or autobrakes, even the TEN doesnt seem to have this.
Why no auto spoilers or autobrakes, even the TEN doesnt seem to have this.
I do hope the traditional interior is offered on the TEN, as the new "funky" modern look with its angular lines and space age look is ghastly.
Regarding reverse, can you modulate it with the reverse levers. They seem tiny and of the all or nothing variety.
It will be interestign to see the weight saved between the proline 21 and the Garmin avionic. Kingair that are given the Garmin treatment lose somethign like 320lbs, and fills a skip bin full of wire, brackets, mounting trays, power supplies and sundry items.
Disapointed to se the TEN still doesnt allow access to the baggage compartment from the main cabin therough the lav. The external baggage door looks tiny........can you get a hard case bicycle case through it and into the cargo compartment. Againm the Falcons seem to be much better in this regard.
The Falcons play in another, higher class IMHO
All new Falcons are sertified for 6 deg steep approach, will Cessna offer that capability to allow them into London City Airport [/QUOTE]
Last edited by His dudeness; 11th Sep 2012 at 15:37.
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I fly a Citation X and on the whole His Dudeness's comments are pretty much spot on.
I do have the following comments:
After touch down upon and getting the spoilers out it does stay well planted until you deploy the TR's at which point the nose will come off the ground again if you have not got significant forward pressure on the column.
The TR levers are very easy to manipulate and are not all or nothing. They are exactly the same as the Sovereign that I flew before and are easier to use than the CL605.
The standard Citation X has Honeywell Primus Avionics with CRT Displays not light weight LCD displays so there will be a significant weight saving there over that. But I am sure the Garmin would not be that much different to Collins ProLine 21 which also uses LCD screens.
The Baggage Bay on the Citation X is pressurised unlike the Sovereign, XLS etc. but that said it would be very nice to be able to get into during flight and you are correct the door is too small. The baggage bay on the Sovereign is much nicer but not pressurised.
I doubt if Cessna will certify the Ten for 6 degree approaches, also London City is too short to take off at a sensible weight in the Citation X
If you have a Citation X the best thing for it much like any other aircraft is to be used on a regular basis and that will keep the maintenance issues down.
All in all I love the Citation X but it does not really suit everybody, it uses a lot of runway and a lot of gas but its quick!
I do have the following comments:
After touch down upon and getting the spoilers out it does stay well planted until you deploy the TR's at which point the nose will come off the ground again if you have not got significant forward pressure on the column.
The TR levers are very easy to manipulate and are not all or nothing. They are exactly the same as the Sovereign that I flew before and are easier to use than the CL605.
The standard Citation X has Honeywell Primus Avionics with CRT Displays not light weight LCD displays so there will be a significant weight saving there over that. But I am sure the Garmin would not be that much different to Collins ProLine 21 which also uses LCD screens.
The Baggage Bay on the Citation X is pressurised unlike the Sovereign, XLS etc. but that said it would be very nice to be able to get into during flight and you are correct the door is too small. The baggage bay on the Sovereign is much nicer but not pressurised.
I doubt if Cessna will certify the Ten for 6 degree approaches, also London City is too short to take off at a sensible weight in the Citation X
If you have a Citation X the best thing for it much like any other aircraft is to be used on a regular basis and that will keep the maintenance issues down.
All in all I love the Citation X but it does not really suit everybody, it uses a lot of runway and a lot of gas but its quick!
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The Baggage Bay on the Citation X is pressurised unlike the Sovereign
A couple of questions come to mind.
Does the FMS give you the optimum and max xruize levels for your weight like the heavy iron FMS does.
Do you have a copy of that chart?
Also, is flex or derate thrust takeoffs used on this aircraft or allways max.
Does the FMS give you the optimum and max xruize levels for your weight like the heavy iron FMS does.
Do you have a copy of that chart?
Also, is flex or derate thrust takeoffs used on this aircraft or allways max.
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The FMS will give you optimized and max flight levels except for the Xs with winglets. Honeywell has not released FMS data yet for those. For now, you must look up takeoff and landing data, optimum cruise data, etc until the FMS software is updated.
There is an app for iPads and software for computers to calculate all performance data. Very helpful.
All takeoffs are with max power.
There is an app for iPads and software for computers to calculate all performance data. Very helpful.
All takeoffs are with max power.
