Dead Body in LG Bay - BA 747

[Mad (Flt) Scientist]

BBC Story (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-19359935)

Summary: individuals scales airport fence, is chased by security, approaches BA 747 waiting for TO, security back off due to hazard of approaching aircraft preparing for TO, security apparently inform people. a/c takes off (not clear the order of last two steps), individual not found after a/c leaves, a/c continues to LHR, body found at LHR.

Why on earth continue the flight?

1. You're pretty much certain to kill this guy. OK, it's "his fault" but still ...

2. Security just spotted an unauthorized person approach a plane. They don't know what he did to it - is he onboard with a set of wirecutters taking it apart? Did he chuck a bomb in the UC bay? Is he onboard, with said bomb? We appear to be paranoid some of the time, but not this time, when it would seem to have been far more warranted.

Perhaps if they'd seen him with a bottle of water things would have been different?

[JW411]

Or if he had a valid Ryaniar ticket.

[Mad (Flt) Scientist]

@City Flyer

Don't know if we're seeing different versions of the same story due to IP differences, but mine includes:

It is believed the dead man could be a person who was spotted scaling the fence at Cape Town International Airport on Wednesday night before heading towards a BA flight getting ready to take off.

Airports Company South Africa (ACSA), which runs the airport, said it was carrying out an investigation.

An ACSA spokesman said: "The airport immediately responded and, as a security patrol officer attempted to apprehend the man, he ran in the direction of a British Airways aircraft already in its holding pattern ready for take-off.

"For safety reasons the security officer could not approach the aircraft. A search of the airfield was immediately conducted but the person was not found.

"British Airways, in addition to various other parties, were notified. Further sweeps were conducted of the runway and the broader airfield.

"This morning, reports from London's Heathrow Airport confirmed that a stowaway was found on board a British Airways aircraft. The person was found dead.

which is what I attempted to summarize.

[caiman27]

As Pax, I landed 5 five minutes before this on SA 234 ex Jo'burg. That is of no direct relevance, other than it makes me particularly interested in the outcome of this incident.

Mad (Flt) has it exactly right. Why was the BA flight not delayed and checked? It must have been obvious that there was a potential security and safety issue. Is there no immediate reporting system for such an event? Or was the security guy just too intimidated by the prospect of delaying the flight?

And Mr JW411 - you really do need to grow up.

[Hand Solo]

Do you know if the crew were informed in reasonable time?

Do you know if anyone positively sighted the individual getting close to the aircraft, as opposed to just running from the authorities?

Have either of you actually flown in Africa, where people taking a short cut across an active airfield is not unknown?

[fortystripes]

Knowing that a live man is in your gear bay and continuing the flight anyway is sadistic!

Can anyone say for sure what would have happened if the gear was dropped for landing?

[gas path]

Can anyone say for sure what would have happened if the gear was dropped for landing?
I certainly hope it was!:p

[BN2A]

Who's to say the flightcrew even knew at any stage??

If they weren't told.....

:hmm:

[Craggenmore]

Have either of you actually flown in Africa, where people taking a short cut across an active airfield is not unknown?

We had an ''official bird scarer'' in a hi-viz jacket run across the runway at Addis a few months back. We were somehwere near V1 when it occured and we did not see him due the curve in the runway until it was too late.

5 seconds earlier and we would have shattered him with the nose gear.

Quite some sight..!

[InSeat19c]

What an awful thing to have happened.

Without wishing to sound too depressing, what would have killed him ?

Crushed to death by the landing gear itself or the altitude ?

[gas path]

Altitude and the temperature. Plenty of space to squeeze into, up against the keel beam or on the wlg shelf.

[Tableview]

There is a fuller article in the Huffington Post :
Body Found In Aircraft Landing Gear At Heathrow Airport (http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2012/08/23/body-found-heathrow-in-aircraft-landing-gear_n_1825017.html)
A spokeswoman said: "Last night at approximately 8.40pm a person was detected scaling the perimeter fence at Cape Town International Airport (CTIA).................. Interesting as the aircraft was airborne at 2032.
BA said it was liaising with South African authorities over the discovery, which was made at about 06:25 BST on Thursday................ and landed at 0637.

I am amazed that anyone could imagine that they could survive 11 hours at temperatures down to -65', and saddened that anyone could be so desperate as to try.

[lomapaseo]

Wow!

What speculation and judgements.

All I could read into the non-vetted words of the media was that some guy dissapeared on airport property after running close to a jumbo jet.

There was no confirmation of any evidence that he actually got in a wheel well (not an easily prcaticed trick with engines running).

Reasonable warnings to be on the lookout were given (to be confirmed).

Nobody reported any anomalys in the aircraft in-flight. Sounds simalar to a typical bird scare sighting being transmitted to crew who would obviously continue if they had no evidence of a damaging strike.

Stop making up what-ifs, we can't be forcing air-turn-backs based solely on ground suspicions. That's what the sensors and crew's brains on aircraft are for.

So ... let the investigation continue without judgement

[root]

I am amazed that anyone could imagine that they could survive 11 hours at temperatures down to -65', and saddened that anyone could be so desperate as to try.

Anyone who thinks they can successfully hitch a ride in a gear bay does not know temperatures at differ greatly at altitude.

[FullWings]

This isn't the first time and it probably won't be the last. From memory, there was the incident some years ago where someone stowed away in India and made it to LHR alive, although not in a very good state. There was also a body found on top of a gasholder, which the police thought was some kind of gangland hit until an aeroplane flew overhead with the gear coming out...

[dfdasein]

I certainly have a sense of déja vu; not generally (it has happened a few times) but also ex-CPT; maybe same airline, same outcome.

[paully]

At one end of the Cape Town runway and seperated from it, would you believe, by a chain link fence, is a very large unofficial squatter camp, wherein live hundreds if not thousands of people. Most are uneducated and all are desperate. Nightly they see the aircraft take off over their heads and they dream of being on it to a new life..Sadly for one unfortunate he didnt live to fulfil his dream. Sadly it wont stop the others trying though.

May the poor unfortunate rest in peace.

[Airbubba]

In a similar case in the U.S. last year the grieving family sued the airline for not preventing the security lapse:

Delvonte Tisdale's family to sue US Airways after he fell to his death from plane | Mail Online (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1348872/Delvonte-Tisdales-family-sue-US-Airways-fell-death-plane.html)

[orion1210]

I'm fairly certain hypoxia would kill someone prior to a temperature related death!!

Shocking that in todays security climate the aircraft wasn't informed and/or landed asap.

[hunterboy]

Good job he didn't leave a package in the wheel well instead. Just goes to show what a waste of time and money most airport security is.

[framer]

orion1210
*
I'm fairly certain hypoxia would kill someone prior to a temperature related death!!


If that is the case, why was every person onboard Helios 522 still alive when the aircraft hit the ground?

[Jack1985]

If that is the case, why was every person onboard Helios 522 still alive when the aircraft hit the ground?

Absolutely correct, the altitude and temperature is what probably killed this passenger - I believe hypoxia just erodes any reaction from a person relatively quickly until you loose consciousness, it is believed the majority of all those on Helios 522 were still alive when the aircraft impacted the ground. The fact he didn't fall out when the gear deployed probably rules out him being crushed he must have secured himself in the bay somehow.

[WhatsaLizad?]

Bodies dropping at the gear down point are unfortunately a routine event in MIA for flights arriving from Latin America.

Sometimes, the stowaway survives in a few rare cases, probably on the 1-2 hour flights. At my airline at a few Latin American destinations, a security vehicle follows us until airborne.

Legend has it years ago, a B727 FE noticed the aft cargo light come on and then go out just as they were ready to enter the active runway for takeoff one night from a down south destination. Word was an 'inside job' took place as a few million dollars of a cash shipment was in that aft cargo and was 'liberated', and spirited off the grounds of a dark airport area.

[Yaw String]

Every departure out of Havana is carefully monitored at the holding point....
Spotlights monitor wheel bays at night.....
Believe BA managed to LMC one there too!...

Guess 100% success rate not guaranteed!

[local]

Yaw String
Your statement is confusing?
1) how do these people monitor at the holding point?
2) who's responsible for taking the spotlights out of the wheel bays?

[Yaw String]

A vehicle with powerful spotlights, situated in the holding area, monitors the aircraft until take-off...
First time I noticed it, thought that Cuban plane spotters were rather keen!

[JumpX3]

If that is the case, why was every person onboard Helios 522 still alive when the aircraft hit the ground?

Ever heard of a pressurised cabin? :rolleyes:

Though I agree the temperature was probably to blame. That is not to say prolonged Hypoxia can't kill someone though.

[Akrapovic]

People have been known to survive.

I remember another BA related story where a man was found wandering around the apron at Heathrow's Terminal 4. Turned out that he'd stowed himself in the gear bay on a BA flight from India (IIRC) . . . the Captain once he'd learned of the story, was so appalled at the boy's story that he ended up adopting him . . .

[windytoo]

In the mid 90s BA brought 2 back from Cuba for Christmas. One dropped out on the approach to 08R at LGW on the 24th Dec. The other was not found on the turnaround, and fell on to the runway from 150 feet after takeoff the following day, when the nose doors opened for gear retraction. This has led to the "spotters" at the threshold at Cuban airfields.

[Road_Hog]

We've had them dropping out over London previously. The man who fell to earth | UK news | The Guardian (http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2001/jul/18/immigration.immigrationandpublicservices) As someone has already stated, there was a case around the same time, where someone survived a long haul flight in the undercarriage. They survived it because they lightly dressed and quite skinny (from memory), they very quickly went into a deep sleep/light coma type of stasis, which is what saved him. Apparently, if he'd been better fed and/or wearing more clothing he would have died.

[BALLSOUT]

I'm no medic but i am sure he would have frozen to death due to the extreme cold. I am also sure he would have been unconcious long before this and probably brain damaged. I expect the people on board the Helios would have also been at least in a coma or brain damaged by the time they crashed. Maybe a medical expert could comment.

[GlueBall]

Helios 522 pax had the benefit of supplemental oxygen.

[sudden twang]

An immediate airborne return , overweight,is in all probability a greater threat than the scenario alluded to.

[blind pew]

One unfortunate was found on the top of a gasometer on approach to LHR in the 70s.

[Sygyzy]

RTFA Post #16.

S:ok::ok:

[Dengue_Dude]

And Mr JW411 - you really do need to grow up.

WHY? He gets my vote . . .

Quite often on incidents such as these, the flight crew are the last to know there is something amiss because all the 'action' is on a different frequency and the one feature of 'communication' is that it doesn't happen half as often as it should.

As for laughing it off a la JW411 - it's black humour, it's how a lot of us (yes US) deal with tragedy - just ask Traffic cops, ambulance drivers etc who have to go and pick up the mess the rest of leave around. Some of the worst is heard in crew rooms after an aircraft stoofs in (but in the military we're all know for being puerile - or were).

There are too many people struggling to breath because their heads are firmly up their fundament . . . JW411, GO FOR IT.

[Airbubba]

As mentioned in earlier threads, when landing to the north in NRT, you are supposed to have your gear down before the shoreline 'in order to prevent ice blocks falling from aircraft onto the ground'.

I believe the 'ice blocks' are the stowaways who used to fall onto beachfront property in Sanbu on gear extension.


Legend has it years ago, a B727 FE noticed the aft cargo light come on and then go out just as they were ready to enter the active runway for takeoff one night from a down south destination. Word was an 'inside job' took place as a few million dollars of a cash shipment was in that aft cargo and was 'liberated', and spirited off the grounds of a dark airport area.

This type of robbery has occured several times over the years I believe. Like bank embezzlement often the crime is not publicized.

[Sir George Cayley]

In all of this the person who came across the remains in the wheel well might be spared a thought. The shock of the finding will last long after we've moved on.

[Tableview]

True, but he may well be up for a Darwin Award (posthumously).

Sorry : That comment was directed at the 'flyer'.

[misd-agin]

Stowaway - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stowaway)

Appears to be missing a couple of events.

[Tableview]

eastern wiseguy

Sorry, I have edited my stupid post.

[Romeo E.T.]

I was at Cape Town international today.

Spoke to the ground engineers, and they mentioned "their quote"

The BA747 was advised of the situation by ATC after ATC had been informed by ACSA security of a person seen heading towards the aircraft whilst at the holding point.

ACSA security vehicle could not get closer due to the B747 with all engines running at the holding point.

ATC asked the crew what their intentions were...re the possible LMC/security issue.

the words replied with were to effect of "We will let LHR personnel deal with the problem if there is one".

and so the aircraft departed...ACSA vehicle entered the aircraft manouvering area after the departure, and continued the search, but no persons found.

[gwillie]

ATC asked the crew what their intentions were...the words replied with were to effect of "We will let LHR personnel deal with the problem if there is one".With morons like these, no further need to worry about shoe bombers, underwear bombers, box-cutter-carrying blokes etc etc

The action will all happen in the wheel wells.

Quite surprising, actually, that Al Q hasn't long ago picked up on this.........

[lomapaseo]

Quite surprising, actually, that Al Q hasn't long ago picked up on this.........

when they comit suicide they like to someone with them, not just freeze to death

[Airguitar]

Too many opinions on this thread and hardly any facts.

1) This is a common occurrence all over the world where people are impoverished. We fly to many airports where the taxiways are monitored and some where we are even escorted to the runway to prevent would-be stowaways.
2) How desperate is the person who tries this? Apparently willing to die trying.
3) Those who "succeed" are the ones who go undetected. They do end up dying.
4) If airliners turned back for every "maybe", there would be a whole lot of turnbacks all over the world, and most of them unfounded.
5) It's IMPOSSIBLE to see from the cockpit windows if someone is stowing away in the wheel wells.
6) If the flight crew and airport authorities had POSITIVE confirmation that a stowaway had succeeded in gaining access to the airplane, they would definitely have returned to the field.

Don't stand on the sidelines and speculate. If you want to talk sh#t, at least know your sh#t.

[sb_sfo]

I can't help but wonder if any of these desperate people in Haiti, China, Africa, etc. have been educated to the point that they are aware of temperature at 35,000 feet or oxygen concentration at altitude. Do they even understand that aircraft are pressurized?

As for the crew in this case, if they were told that there was a good chance that someone extra was aboard and they departed anyway, their education may not be complete either.

[spoilers yellow]

Romeo ET

The source re your quote from the flight crew is incorrect.

[Mad (Flt) Scientist]

when they comit suicide they like to someone with them, not just freeze to death

I think the concern raised (albeit perhaps flippantly) is that there's no way to distinguish between a desperately poor person stowing away in a LG bay ignorant of the risks they are running, and a determined suicide bomber climbing into the same UC bay with a backpack full of who knows what.

I remain somewhat surprised that in the modern security climate, fairly good evidence of an unauthorized person in close proximity to an operating airliner did not result in a greater reaction than this did.

[Tableview]

I thought some aircraft had wheel bay cameras? If not, maybe this could and should become a feature.

[lomapaseo]

I thought some aircraft had wheel bay cameras? If not, maybe this could and should become a feature.

it's bad enough that they got them in the Loos, now you want them in the wheel wells as well ?

make a list an we'll get to it eventually

[dancingdog777]

@ Airguitar - "5) It's IMPOSSIBLE to see from the cockpit windows if someone is stowing away in the wheel wells."

Wouldn't cost much extra to fit wheel wells with either motion detectors or webcams.

[wiggy]

Wouldn't cost much extra to fit wheel wells with either motion detectors or webcams.

When you're dealing with something weighing perhaps more than 300 tonnes that's in motion and rattling away over sometimes rough concrete I'm not sure how useful motion detectors are going to be.

As for cameras, might be a "nice to have" but there's more than enough safety critical stuff that needs to be actioned inside the flightdeck during the taxi-out and line-up without adding a "stowaways...checked" line to the before take - off checklist. That has to be the job of the airport authorities.

[Trossie]

Absolutely spot on, especially the last sentence.

[ECAM_Actions]

Makes a mockery of airport security. :ugh:

Sad that people have to resort to these desperate actions. :(

[I.R.PIRATE]

Stupid people do stupid things all over the world.

[A and C]

It has been said in posts above that clearly the stowaways don't know the risks and need education about the dangers.

I would guess that the only education on this subject they have had would have been from Hollywood action movies were the hero grabs hold of the landing gear and then climbs into the aircraft cabin via a door.

Hardly surprising that the poor and desperate from the third world are willing to risk all with the "education" they have received.

[Romeo E.T.]

from iAfrica.com
All international flights out of Cape Town International Airport after sunset will be escorted before take-off, it was reported on Thursday.

"This means international flights will have a security patrol vehicle driving behind them, with a clear line of sight of the undercarriage," airport spokesperson Deidre Davids told the Cape Times.

She said the security presence on the airport's perimeter fence had also been strengthened.

A man last seen climbing over the airport fence was found dead a week ago in a British Airways plane in London. He had apparently run towards a runway where the plane was in its holding position, ready for take-off.

His body had apparently not been identified.

[Duffb]

Welcome to Afrika:ugh:

[Tableview]

So what about other airports? Why just CPT? The area round JNB has a far higher number of desperate people who'd like to escape.

Interesting, because before 1994 desperate Africans wanted to get in to SA. Now they're there they want out.

[RobertS975]

OK, my perhaps unwelcome take on this... IF the BA crew was indeed informed that an unknown person had apparently approached the aircraft on foot whilst holding on the taxiway, then I believe that they should have taken this far more seriously. A careful search should have been requested. If that meant a taxi over to some holding apron, then so be it. If that meant shutdown of the inboard engines, then so be it. If that meant a return to the gate, then so be it.

As others have pointed out, the event of an individual hiding in a wheel well is not uncommon. But the event of a security van actually apparently seeing someone do this is unique as far as I know.

[lomapaseo]

... As others have pointed out, the event of an individual hiding in a wheel well is not uncommon. But the event of a security van actually apparently seeing someone do this is unique as far as I know.

But they didn't see it

It was only a later speculation (when they couldn't find the intruder) followed by a much later confirmation after the plane landed.


Let's stick to facts before judgements

[Hand Solo]

....IF the BA crew was indeed informed that an unknown person had apparently approached the aircraft on foot whilst holding on the taxiway, then I believe that they should have taken this far more seriously.....

Well they weren't informed. Not until it was far too late to do anything about the fate of the unfortunate stowaway. So that's that.

[seymoreskye]

Judging by one of todays "PAPERS" it happens alot more frequently.....LHR Yesterday

[maliyahsdad2]

Man found dead in street below Heathrow flight path could be illegal immigrant stowaway | Mail Online (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2200947/Man-dead-street-Heathrow-flight-path-illegal-immigrant-stowaway.html)

[ETOPS]

That's just about where I put the gear down. Should be able to match up an arrival with the timing...

[DaveReidUK]

That's just about where I put the gear down. Should be able to match up an arrival with the timing...

Except that nobody seems to have seen the poor guy fall.

Assuming that we're talking about a wide-body, long-haul arrival, then even if we restrict it to flights originating from Africa there are 3 or 4 to choose from, all of which arrived some time before the reported discovery of the body at 07:55.

[The Ancient Geek]

Not a problem. We know exactly when the bang was heard, the altitude for a 3 deg approach and the time taken for a free fall from that altitude.

Simple physics.

[DaveReidUK]

We know exactly when the bang was heard

Do we ?

According to the linked article, that would rather depend on whether Annie Williams remembers what time she opened her curtains.

[Tableview]

It seems odd to me that no bang was heard, and that the body lay there long enough to defrost, as one report says 'there was a lot of blood'.

I am no forenisc expert, but logic tells me that either this unfortunate person had not frozen, so was not dropped from a longhaul flight, or he defrosted after landing on the car roof, whch implies he was there a fair while.

Aviation expert believes he froze to death; it appears body fell out of hold

So the hold doors are opened in flight? Some expert.

[LongTimeInCX]

Glad no innocent passers by were hurt.
There have been cases in HK over the years where innocent pedestrians get clobbered by falling people.
However whilst not intending to be harsh or callous, this appears to be natural selection at its finest.

[deSitter]

I am no forenisc expert, but logic tells me that either this unfortunate person had not frozen, so was not dropped from a longhaul flight, or he defrosted after landing on the car roof, whch implies he was there a fair while.

It would require many days of subzero temperatures to freeze an entire body. It's not like freezing a cut-up chicken. However, death from hypothermia can occur when the blood temperature is as high as 80 degrees F.

Why do people do this? Because it works. Some have survived. And you are sure to get a hearing in front of whomever are the powers-that-be. That's probably better than living in a sewer/slum at the end of a runway. A well-prepared person - thermal clothing, supplemental oxygen, restraint system, knowledge of the landing gear bays - could easily pull it off.

[skol]

Happened in Fiji too, many years ago, only the dude involved fell out as the landing gear was retracted and found dead in a cane field adjacent to NFFN.

[Mr Mac]

I have, and continue to travel in many 3rd world countries, and shanty towns around airports are very common. Also I have been on aircraft escorted at night many times, though this maybe more security related eg Nairobi. The comment about education, and as to why they think they can get away with doing this may well be Hollywood inspired. However having recently had a conversation with a guy cooking an omlette for me in Tanzania, which went along the lines of that he had been told that when in Nairobi it was possible to see the lights of London in the northern sky, hence he thought London was only a weeks days drive away, you start to understand the problem. Geography not his strong point, but food was good before you all ask.;)

[DaveReidUK]

as to why they think they can get away with doing this may well be Hollywood inspired

Alas, probably true ...

[Golf-Sierra]

I used to sometimes go picnicking at Dukes Meadows, it's just under the approach path for 27R, about the same distance as Mortlake. Will definitely be taking that of the agenda after reading this story.

[DaveReidUK]

Assuming that we're talking about a wide-body, long-haul arrival, then even if we restrict it to flights originating from Africa there are 3 or 4 to choose from, all of which arrived some time before the reported discovery of the body at 07:55.

BBC now reporting that the body was found with Angolan currency.

While that doesn't necessarily imply that's where the flight originated, BAW76 from Luanda landed at 07:44 last Sunday morning.

BBC News - Heathrow flight death man 'possibly Angolan' (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-19578228)

[toolboxstickers]

This item gives a lot more details. An FAA study shows at least 96 people have tried it since 1947, 23 of them have survived.
BBC News - How often do plane stowaways fall from the sky? (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-19562101)

[HAWK21M]

These folks dont realise that An aircraft flies at a higher altitude & the Wheel well is UN pressurised.....

[Dg800]

A well-prepared person - thermal clothing, supplemental oxygen, restraint system, knowledge of the landing gear bays - could easily pull it off. Pity that such a well prepared and well equipped person won't be living in an African slum in the first place, and hence would not be motivated to attempt such a dangerous stunt. Your run-of-the-mill desperate slum dweller has nothing to his name except the clothes on his back and has very little to no knowledge at all of the world outside his slum. :(

[Wino]

I am not at all sure that the cold is killing these people. For those of you with brake temperature gauges, pay attention to them in flight... Some of them are quite warm, even after a LONG time at altitude. I suspect it has to do with the proximity of all the hydraulic lines and pumps and whatnot that tends to populate the main gear wells.

Prolonged exposure above 30,000 feet without supplemental o2 is guaranteed fatal... and most of these long haul jets are well above 35000 feet by the time its over. However, interestingly I see temps of 45-50 degree C frequently on the brake temp gauges long into cruise flight. I think it actually might be rather hot in the main gear wells.

If you climb into the nose gear however, I think that would reside somewhere between TAT and SAT (I would guess -30 degrees C or so) and even for a relatively short flight at a lower altitude like 25000 feet, you would have a reduced ability to shiver to stay warm (not enough O2 to do the vigorous exercise that is shivering is) so you would be susceptable to hypothermia much quicker than normal.

Cheers
Wino