Silkair Defects to Boeing - 54 firm 737-800s & Max

[Iver]

According to the article I just read, these 54 firm plus 14 options would be for both growth and fleet renewal. Do a search for the article. Not sure when the first 800 is expected to arrive. The article did mention that 3 Airbus aircraft are still expected to arrive in 2013 but will eventually be replaced in the fleet renewal... Sounds like Silkair does not want to be rolled over by AirAsia or Lionair in the region without a fight...

How do the Silkair pilots feel about giving up their sidesticks? Guess you will need to learn to "fly" again with the Boeings... :p:}:p. Joking :)

Just curious, what is the status of hiring at Silkair?

[safelife]

Seems odd to make a switch to the 737 as a "quality" airline and order significant numbers while the LCC competition flies A320ies and is serving most of their routes as well...

[SingaporeAirlines]

:D Bravo indeed! Looks like SIA was right when they said SilkAir is going to expand and contribute more to the net profit of the group.

Let's hope all the new cadet pilot vacancies will go to local Singaporean Pilots ONLY this time and no more of these unwelcome foreigners from India and Malaysia will occupy our rightful spot on the Right-Hand Seat of these beautiful 737s. :ugh:

:* := :ugh:

[LieDetector]

^^ Lets hope not.

A lot of talented Individuals from the countries that you mentioned, much rather see them than incapable locals for the good of aviation in general.

[mabele]

Dear SingaporeAirlines,

Do you have a job with Silk?

Do you know what a cockpit of a 737 looks like compared to a an Airbus?

Beautiful doesn't come to mind, unless you don't have a job, then your forgiven, as any cockpit is a great place to be.

Unless you already have one... Then the 737 looks like, well antiquated comes to mind.

Fortunately aviation is not based race, nationality or color. It is based on skill. It doesn't matter where you come from. If your an idiot or have issues picking your nose then aviation is probably not the best place. You see we take people who are GOOD and have ABILITY.

As professionals we are not racists like you. This is a job for skilled professionals. Some morons do indeed sneak through though. Maybe you'll get lucky? Or already have...

[SingaporeAirlines]

Well based on your post I assume you are an expat working for Silkair. In which case you are probably a Captain and are European/ANZ/American, Indian or Malaysian.

Europe/Australia/New Zealand/USA/Canada are saturated as they are with local pilots and they themselves do not welcome foreigners.

Malaysia gives priority to their own people and thankfully for them most of their pilots are Malaysian.

India is flooded with jobless CPL holders so they don't need any expats and are already cutting down on the existing ones.

In which case let me ask you, why should we in Singapore where we already have excess pilots, cede our places to you? := No sir...

It's a very rational argument in my opinion. I understand you have a legit job in MI and a family to feed but the truth is you can probably go back home and land a cushy job yourself whereas you staying here only prevents local Singaporeans from being Pilots. Singaporeans cannot go to India/Malaysia/Australia/USA/Canada/Europe to be Pilots right?

And if the 737 cockpit is antiquated to you why don't you resign and go back? No one is asking you to stay... ;)

[flying.monkeyz]

Sounds like we've got a sore looser here... :D

[Sky Dancer]

Singaporeairlines has a point.I would like to see the reaction of the pilot unions in America,Europe,Australia when they decide to hire expats.:cool:

[flying.monkeyz]

The union here ain't as powerful / destructive as unions there. Therefore not comparing apple for apple.

[SingaporeAirlines]

Compared to other emasculated unions in Singapore, ALPA-S is supposed to be fairly strong.

Ofcourse compared to other Pilot Unions we are nothing haha!

Engineered that way too probably eh? ;)

[etops777]

I agreed with SingaporeAirlines...he may have used a term that is a bit harsh but he does have a point.

What he should have said/meant was that all the hiring should go to the qualified Singaporeans first and if they do not have sufficient numbers of Singaporean then by all means recruit from the open market.

For most of us is if you do not have the right of abode of that country then you can forget about getting a job there. Can anyone imagine any other nationals without the right of abode flies for Air France, KLM, LH, UA, AA, DL, QF? I don't think so..And if other countries would to allow that then singaporeairlines wouldn't even have any objections here.

Singaporeairlines does have a valid points but just a bit too harsh..don't we agree?

[mynameisjon]

Really don't see the big hoohaa over hiring of Malaysians. Most of them are just down to earth blokes who happen to be born with the wrong skin colour, hence their inability to get a job over in their own country.

That being said, expats living in glass houses really shouldn't be talking trash about locals demanding that hiring require right of abode IN THE FIRST PLACE.

Back on topic, I believe the first aircraft are due in 2014. Also doubtful that MI wants to compete in the low cost segment where Lion and AirAsia dominates.

[Metro man]

There are only expats in Singapore because there aren't enough QUALIFIED locals to fill the positions. A 200 hr CPL holder can't replace an experienced Captain.:ugh:

Maybe there are good reasons why some people are unemployed.:hmm:

[JammedStab]

Really don't see the big hoohaa over hiring of Malaysians. Most of them are just down to earth blokes who happen to be born with the wrong skin colour, hence their inability to get a job over in their own country.



I believe that in reality...Singapore is a part of Malaysia except in technical terms. They seem the same to me.

[klmasdriver]

There are only expats in Singapore because there aren't enough QUALIFIED locals to fill the positions. A 200 hr CPL holder can't replace an experienced Captain.

Don't be too sure about that, spoken to anyone with their contracts renewal nearing? As a so call "experienced" left seat driver, you have probably 2 choices in SIN, lose your expat terms with SIA or go LCC.

On what SingaporeAirlines has said so far in his multiple postings on nationalistic pride of Singaporeans, I'm surprised it took so long for the local boys to stand up.

Foreginers, (regardless of color), if you want a job, be nice, don't bother preaching all these skills crap. Your VFR night flying out in the woods in the good old days is nothing to brat too much about. And your continuous hyping on performance based hiring is BS. So far, I don't see a/c falling out of Asian skies the way some of you claimed to be. Modern jetliners are not that hard to be flown and they are enough experienced Instructors/Captains of each respective legacy carriers in Asia that can attest to that. Stupid mistakes that happened in Asian airliners get repeated time and again in the West too. You really think we (locals) owe it to you (foreigners) to let our airlines manned by foreigners majority? WE, will let you know if there's any temporary openings, AFTER we fail to find another suitably qualified local boy/gal to fill the shoes.

To quote again the most echoed sentiment by SingaporeAirlines:
Europe/Australia/New Zealand/USA/Canada are saturated as they are with local pilots and they themselves do not welcome foreigners.

And I cheers to this factual bit too:
Malaysia gives priority to their own people and thankfully for them most of their pilots are Malaysian.

Now let the flaming begin..

[niksmathew24]

Europe/Australia/New Zealand/USA/Canada are saturated as they are with local pilots and they themselves do not welcome foreigners.

Add India to the above list. There is a valid point in what he/she says. Ab-Initio hiring should be for locals only. And "ONLY" when there is a shortage, it should be outsourced to another country. Not just for the mere fact that Indian's come cheaper by the dozen. It's time you locals did something about it. ALPA-S doesn't give a rat's a** by the looks of it.

Correct me if I am wrong, doesn't SIA have a 26yr age limit for locals? I came across it while going through the ALPS-S website.

[mynameisjon]

26 is an unspoken rule.

[Stallone]

I believe that in reality...Singapore is a part of Malaysia except in technical terms. They seem the same to me.

sorry, singapore is too different to be considered being part of M'sia

the policies, the standard of living, the streets, the people, the leaders

[overmars]

I believe that in reality...Singapore is a part of Malaysia except in technical terms. They seem the same to me.

Something like saying that Batam and Bintan are part of Singapore... :}

[SingaporeAirlines]

That being said, expats living in glass houses really shouldn't be talking trash about locals demanding that hiring require right of abode IN THE FIRST PLACE.

Did you hear that mabele? We are doing your Westerners are favor by keeping you employed here. This is not the Singapore of the 1920s where you can plunder our land, **** our women and kick the locals. If you think Boeing's brand new 737 is too antiquated for you, feel free to go be an Avionics Engineer in Seattle for them or get the hell out of Singapore! Do you understand?!

Really don't see the big hoohaa over hiring of Malaysians. Most of them are just down to earth blokes who happen to be born with the wrong skin colour, hence their inability to get a job over in their own country.

I actually agree with this point. But Malaysia does not seem to recognize that about Singaporeans right? Maybe one day when MAS and Air Asia start taking in ab-initio cadets from Singapore and training them for free to be First Officers on their 737s and A380s, I will take my words back and apologize :ok:

There are only expats in Singapore because there aren't enough QUALIFIED locals to fill the positions. A 200 hr CPL holder can't replace an experienced Captain.

Maybe there are good reasons why some people are unemployed.

When thousands of hours experienced RSAF F-5 and F-16 Pilots are being told that all local airline positions are full and I see some ang moh in the Left-Hand Seat of a MI or SQ or SQC jet, I think that is just plain discrimination at hand!

Don't be too sure about that, spoken to anyone with their contracts renewal nearing? As a so call "experienced" left seat driver, you have probably 2 choices in SIN, lose your expat terms with SIA or go LCC.

On what SingaporeAirlines has said so far in his multiple postings on nationalistic pride of Singaporeans, I'm surprised it took so long for the local boys to stand up.

Foreginers, (regardless of color), if you want a job, be nice, don't bother preaching all these skills crap. Your VFR night flying out in the woods in the good old days is nothing to brat too much about. And your continuous hyping on performance based hiring is BS. So far, I don't see a/c falling out of Asian skies the way some of you claimed to be. Modern jetliners are not that hard to be flown and they are enough experienced Instructors/Captains of each respective legacy carriers in Asia that can attest to that. Stupid mistakes that happened in Asian airliners get repeated time and again in the West too. You really think we (locals) owe it to you (foreigners) to let our airlines manned by foreigners majority? WE, will let you know if there's any temporary openings, AFTER we fail to find another suitably qualified local boy/gal to fill the shoes.

Welcome to the discussion Sir! :D Great that we finally have some champions of our cause on board!

Add India to the above list. There is a valid point in what he/she says. Ab-Initio hiring should be for locals only. And "ONLY" when there is a shortage, it should be outsourced to another country. Not just for the mere fact that Indian's come cheaper by the dozen. It's time you locals did something about it. ALPA-S doesn't give a rat's a** by the looks of it.

Correct me if I am wrong, doesn't SIA have a 26yr age limit for locals? I came across it while going through the ALPS-S website.

Hahahah India! What a horrible nation. Their 3rd-World Educated Countrymen happily scoot on across the Straits to Singapore and think they are God's gift to Aviation and how all Singaporeans should bend over backwards just to welcome them into the left seat. All this while they have managed to single handedly screw up their complete aviation market while having a 600 million middle class population.

Seriously speaking, at this point in time, the Africans have gotten aviation and worked it better for themselves than the Indians.

Despicable that they still have the nerve to come to the Singaporeans' thread and preach to us. Have some national pride my friends, National Day is tomorrow!!!

I believe that in reality...Singapore is a part of Malaysia except in technical terms. They seem the same to me.

Hello Abang you get rid of Bumiputra policy and then come talk to me. Don't rattle on and on about this Satu Malaysia crap and still discriminate against other races. I am saying this as a Singaporean Malay.

Anyway cheers to all you guys. Let's hope and keep the sentiments rising and maybe in due time we will have our voices heard :E

[parabellum]

When thousands of hours experienced RSAF F-5 and F-16 Pilots are being told that all local airline positions are full and I see some ang moh in the Left-Hand Seat of a MI or SQ or SQC jet, I think that is just plain discrimination at hand!




I had ten very happy years as an expat in the LHS of the -400 with SIA and flew with co-pilots of varying experience. The ex fighter jocks were usually a good pair of hands but no way were they ready for a command straight away, they did get a shorter route to the LHS than their non RSAF colleagues though. F5 and F16 flying is no preparation for a passenger jet and possibly six sectors a day! Call it discrimination if you want to but it is your own, local, management that makes the decisions. It must be at least thirty years since an expat was invited into a management role, (excluding SC and LIP captains). I believe the minimum age of 26 for Singaporeans is because they have to do their National Service first.

[SingaporeAirlines]

National Service is 2 years and most of us are between 20-23 when it finishes. I am glad you came into this topic without the attitude of some of the previous posters. I respect you for that Sir.

Perhaps though it is the 12 year wait for command which is utterly ridiculous. I know Pilots with excess of 10000hr TT and 7000hr on type in SIA and SQC who are still SFOs waiting for promotion.

The sooner they get promoted, the sooner the bottom can be cleared for new recruits.

And I am HIGHLY skeptical (this is not addressed to anyone but a comment at large) that they cannot find enough suitable Singaporean applicants to be cadet pilots.

The strength of our recent graduates in academics and extracurricular activities is tremendous - something which these Malaysians and Indians lack - and our tenacity to survive the Singapore education and make it that far speaks for itself. Being an SIA Pilot is still one of the top dream jobs in Singapore by far!

The only reason why SIA's Malaysian Infested management does this "international" hiring is so that the unions are kept weak and Lampa-less.

We need more of our Singapore sons on board. Please please spread the cause people :ok:

[mynameisjon]

I had ten very happy years as an expat in the LHS of the -400 with SIA and flew with co-pilots of varying experience. The ex fighter jocks were usually a good pair of hands but no way were they ready for a command straight away, they did get a shorter route to the LHS than their non RSAF colleagues though. F5 and F16 flying is no preparation for a passenger jet and possibly six sectors a day! Call it discrimination if you want to but it is your own, local, management that makes the decisions. It must be at least thirty years since an expat was invited into a management role, (excluding SC and LIP captains). I believe the minimum age of 26 for Singaporeans is because they have to do their National Service first.

This i fully agree with. Didn't KAL have this "high rankin airforce pilots go straight to command" philosophy up until a few years ago? Didn't work out too well for them did it? Single pilot ops in a twin engine fighter is hardly command experience. Maybe if they came from a c-130, but then only if they were put through RHS for a year or two.

But no. 26 is not because of National Service. If that were the case then it should be dropped for those who have already completed that, no? It's because the damn airforce wants first pick of those who wants to be pilots.

[ballistix71]

I respect you for that Sir.

SIA you illicit responses based upon the tone of your messages. If you attack foreign pilots in SIA then those who work, or have worked, for them tend to respond in kind.

Perhaps though it is the 12 year wait for command which is utterly ridiculous. I know Pilots with excess of 10000hr TT and 7000hr on type in SIA and SQC who are still SFOs waiting for promotion.

Other international airlines around the world also have this kind of backlog of command, SIA is not on it's own here.

And I am HIGHLY skeptical (this is not addressed to anyone but a comment at large) that they cannot find enough suitable Singaporean applicants to be cadet pilots.

The strength of our recent graduates in academics and extracurricular activities is tremendous - something which these Malaysians and Indians lack - and our tenacity to survive the Singapore education and make it that far speaks for itself. Being an SIA Pilot is still one of the top dream jobs in Singapore by far!

Actually the second comment is true and is one of the reasons why what you find hard to believe is in fact true also. In quite recent times the number of suitable Singaporean applicants for Cadet Pilot positions turned up zero successful candidates. This is in part to the fact that there are less suitable Singaporeans who are applying for the positions. Instead they are looking at positions in other industries such as finance etc...Aviation does not hold the lustre that it once did in the world of employment. You also have to keep in mind that recruitment within the airlines is for future commanders, it is the job of the recruitment board to interview with this in mind.

While the press in Singapore reports that young children would like to be pilots second to only being the PM of Singapore, you have to consider that those being asked are at the age of around 8 years. By the time these children grow up, most of them have changed their career prospects.

With respect to other countries hiring practices, why is it that 200 hour CPL students are able to get positions outside of Singapore freely? Numerous students, some ex SIA (having not made it through SIA training) have taken up positions with airlines such as Vietnam, Honk Kong Air etc. It is because all countries around the world allow skilled individuals to reside there to fill skill shortages. It is also because they payed their own way through aviation training, they have no return of service to an organisation.

It is also the reason why SIA pilots are able to find work around the world after the no paid leave being offered to their SO, FO and SFOs. I believe a number have taken up positions with QATAR recently, or am I mistaken?

Countries such as Australia have a greater field of selection because they have a greater proportion of pilots who pay for their own training. This means the companies can pick and choose who they select and who they don't. It even means, if you look at your nearby neighbor in Australia, that the airlines do look to hire externally.

QANTAS / JETSTAR being a prime example. The recent attempts to hire from overseas were blocked by unions for two major reasons, 1) The new pilots were to fly Australian registered aircraft on overseas working conditions and 2) Australia has an excess of qualified pilots (at this stage) with which to recruit from.

The second point is the more interesting one as it highlights that Australia has identified it too will be approaching a pilot shortage and if you look at it's GA industry this is already starting to take place within the Flight Instructor positions.

The last point of note is the one about training. SIA does not train it's Ab-initio cadets completely in Singapore. Neither does the new training organisation (STAA?). They make use of external training bases, which are crewed by nationals of the country they are in. There are also Singaporean nationals working in those very organisations without issue and who have then secured positions within the SIA group.

While in an ideal world it might be good to believe that you can limit employment to just those individuals within a certain country for national pride reasons. It does not make the sense to do so in an industry that prides itself on it's high safety standard across the industry and is without doubt a truely global industry. Lowering recruitment standards by any organisation just to satisfy the current political situation in a country will not lend longevity to any airline.

I understand that there is a lot of frustration in the industry at the present time due to delays to command. Unfortunately one cannot just take up the slack create when the boom prior to the GFC became a bust and left those airlines with cadet programs with an excess of SOs & FOs. The whole process will take time to clear, unfortunately the industry is also facing the prospect of having to push back retirement ages for pilots to ensure that they do not lose the experience of the captains before the newer generation is there to hand the baton to.

In other words we are all caught between a rock and a hard place, we just need to find the most comfortable ledge with which to watch proceedings without getting too worked up.

[ballistix71]

Simply put I find it rather ridiculous that countries with smaller populations than us and larger aviation fleets than Singapore can find their own to fly their planes and we need to go to 3rd World Countries to pay 3rd World Educated cadets to fly our latest Boeings and Airbuses.

Maybe you guys would like to know why I am so against these people flying for our national carrier.

I too was once a young chap like you guys many years back. Tried applying for the SIA Cadet Program many times. In my 6th attempt, they called me for my 1st interview. Failed. Tried again. This time went to the 2nd interview and failed and was told there is no point applying again.

Went to New Zealand and did the Massey program and got my CPL/MECIR. Tried to get into SIA again and failed. All this whilst SIA was taking in Malaysians, Indians and HKers by the boatload and here I was a born and brought up 5th Gen Singaporean Malay getting rejected.

No attitude to be a commercial pilot you say?

I went on to banner-towing for a while and flying small twin otters in Papau New Guinea and was eventually given a gig on a King Air 350. One thing led to another and I was offered my first jet job in a Bruneian outfit flying Learjets.

Now I am happily employed by a small company in the region flying Gulfstream G550s.

My life was not easy. I had the determination and passion and went against all odds to achieve it.

If maybe even one of the interviews had seen that I could have saved my parents' precious life savings and gotten a job with SIA. But no.

Anyway all's well that ends well and I am living a content life now.

But not every Singaporean who has taken the path less travelled is lucky. Just saying.

Happy Landings.

Found this post from you in another thread. Given you had opportunities given to you in other countries to progress your career by travelling the path less traveled, why do you spend so much energy putting out that the SIA group shouldn't do the same for other pilots if it is in the best interest of SIA?

You have been able to get a job by going the hard yards, just like a lot of pilots worldwide have to do. Unfortunately pilot cadet programs are not fair by their nature. Companies intend to recruit the best they can to enhance the company, it isn't about handing out a free licence to people, it's an investment. Many a passionate good pilot has been overlooked by airlines as they do not fit the mold the airline is looking for.

An airline pilot who many wondered how he got a job once said to me..

"Airlines need pilots just like pilots need airlines, the only person who can fail an interview is the pilot."

[klmasdriver]

As one of the privileged few that went through RMAF fighter background, I can resonate some valid points by my fellow counterparts from RSAF who also moved across to civilian flying, BUT we definitely resent this statement:
Single pilot ops in a twin engine fighter is hardly command experience.mynameisjon, I doubt very much you flown anything faster than 86% speed of sound while pushing buttons on a flight plan pre-prepared by dispatcher while all you have to do, is just searching for runway closure Notams to impress your skipper/FO. Over at the other playing field, lack of proper decision and within critical time span, you WILL get killed. I won't even go into details how bloody slow everything was in the cockpit when I first converted. I had to pretend that I'm trying to listen to the repetitive highlights which could have been summed up in a half hour briefing. I had more time to reduce my golf game to single handicap during my line training.

I do, HOWEVER, agree that it takes time for us ex-military boys to get used to certain decision making process based on company policies. And nothing beats experience, and I won't promote any quick command as well since one of the best way that I learned, was watching how the guy on the left did it, regardless of background.

I do not wish to dwell on this already beaten to death topic of ex-military vs ab-intial, as a current SIM instructor, I'd seen aces from both camps. BUT, it's utter dis-respectful for anyone from other camp to discredit the other especially on someone who had served his country no less than a decade in day in day out REAL flying.

Back to the topic of Silk Air massive expansion plan, I say it will be utterly silly of local boys in SIN not standing up and fight this one out. And SingaporeAirlines, in his very own ways (offensive or otherwise), did stir up some relevant points to keep the shinny jets to the national boys, rightfully so. It will be a riot here in Malaysia if that's not the case. (Well, we are already having some problem of our own, but that's entirely different story). Looking at the way how foreigners responded, I think the denial will continue with the persistent perception that foreigners presence will be more justifiable if they stay in this region long enough.

[Metro man]

When thousands of hours experienced RSAF F-5 and F-16 Pilots are being told that all local airline positions are full and I see some ang moh in the Left-Hand Seat of a MI or SQ or SQC jet, I think that is just plain discrimination at hand!

Haven't the CAAS recently changed the rules regarding recognition of military time ?

[mynameisjon]

mynameisjon, I doubt very much you flown anything faster than 86% speed of sound while pushing buttons on a flight plan pre-prepared by dispatcher while all you have to do, is just searching for runway closure Notams to impress your skipper/FO. Over at the other playing field, lack of proper decision and within critical time span, you WILL get killed. I won't even go into details how bloody slow everything was in the cockpit when I first converted. I had to pretend that I'm trying to listen to the repetitive highlights which could have been summed up in a half hour briefing. I had more time to reduce my golf game to single handicap during my line training.

Military flying and commercial flying are two very different games. Just because someone used to play quarterback for his NFL team doesn't make him a captain in a Premier League team should he choose to make the jump.

Your attitude towards "repetitive" highlights kind of sums up the reason why military pilots need to spend time on the RHS before getting command. Commercial flying has always been about doing things to death and redundancies.

I have nothing against military pilots, but like everyone else, if they've never done multi-crew operations before, they shouldn't be jumping straight into command.

[flying.monkeyz]

It's rather disconcerting to see a thread that was originally meant to discuss SilkAir's acquisition of Boeing 737 has diverted to a xenophobic route.

Dear Singapore Airlines,

You as a pilot should know very well by now that one's academic record is just one factor of consideration of pilot recruitment. Not all PhD rocket scientists qualify to be aviators. So while the strength of our recent graduates in academics and extracurricular activities is tremendous, there are more to just good results in order to fly.

I have seen too many cases of Singaporeans with outstanding results messing up their interviews, thinking that they should rightfully get the job. A Singaporean friend of mine on his second round can't even tell the panel what engines are on SQ's 777! :ugh:

I believe the reason airlines here aren't able to find sufficient suitable Singaporeans to be cadet pilots are as follows:

1. Not all Singaporeans want to be pilots.
2. Not all Singaporeans who want to be pilots qualify to be pilots.
3. Not all Singaporeans who want to be pilots get support to be pilots.
4. Not all Singaporeans who want to be pilots have the skills to be pilots. I'm no musician, even if you strap me to a guitar.
5. Not all Singaporeans who want to be pilots are medically fit to be pilots.
6. Not all Singaporeans who want to be pilots behave and think like pilots.
7. Not all Singaporeans who want to be pilots prepare themselves for the interview, just like my Singaporean friend above.
And I'm sure there are plenty of other reasons. Though we have a population of over 5 million, after all the filtering / shortlisting / selection, there really aren't many left. Did I mention those that were terminated during their training phase? And surely you'll know that when it comes to cadet pilots, the SIA group is now competing with Jetstar and Tiger, and if you look at the Tiger's ads in the papers on Saturday and today, they strictly wants Singaporeans and PRs only. The pool of "suitable" candidates are only so big.

I can't help but to sense this strong sour feeling that you emitted for not being able to score your dream job. I'm sure you were academically qualified, otherwise you won't be called up for the interview. Did you do one of SQ's management's favourite activities AKA POST-MORTEM? What happened in your interviews? What did you do that may have resulted in you not being selected? Did you say anything wrong? Maybe it was the way you presented yourself, the way you answered their questions... etc etc etc. Remember the interviewers are looking for "the right fit". Maybe you just did not have the right fit for them.

Not trying to put you down but I'm not sure how successful you're gonna get for "spreading the cause". Unless you're the next PM and change the policy, I believe you're beating a dead horse / barking up the wrong tree.

This reply is also posted in the SIA Cadet Pilot thread for the information of aspiring cadet pilots, so as to enable them to be better informed and prepared for interviews, and hopefully selected by the airline for a fulfilling career.

[parabellum]

Just a few points. It was often said, when I lived in Singapore, that SIA was offering a lot less than a doctor, dentist or lawyer might hope to make and this took away a lot of potential cadets, not to mention the fact that many other young graduates simply didn't fancy the lifestyle. As already mentioned, of those that do/did apply to SIA many were not up to standard and failed the interview process or initial training. The SIA training department know what they are looking for in a cadet and if it isn't there the process goes no further.

It is actually to the Singaporeans advantage to have about 20% expat pilots because, when the hard times come, it is the expats. who go first, regardless of years of service or position in the airline, there is already substantial history of this and we all knew it when we signed up. Expats provide quite a useful safety net for the locals!

[Metro man]

Foreign airlines are fond of using Singapore when it comes to recruitment roadshows, Emirates, Etihad and Kingfisher have all done presentations in local hotels to prospective pilot employees. It was surprising to see how many SIA pilots attended.:hmm:

Perhaps if SIA (not just Silk Air) opened it's doors to women pilots there would be more suitable local applicants available.;)

[slayerdude]

Will make this short...... Am local ...... In the training environment in SQ weather it be command or co-pilot , local boys need to be spoon fed and need to be " taught" survival instincts .......it is embarrassing as a local to see these foreign trainees put our local boys in their pockets..... Due to bad basics an ATTITUDE.... So can we blame management????

[ballistix71]

We have a lot of self-sponsored CPL guys in Singapore as well as a lot of SIA Senior First Officers on the pipeline to Captaincy. The thing is, EVEN when roads open up to ease the bottleneck, the management does not do it. For example, when Scoot came up, it presented SIA a great opportunity to maybe promote some 777 SFOs to Junior Captains on the Scoot fleet. But NO. They fled to Angmohland to do the recruitment for Captains.

On this one I too couldn't understand the decision, but alas those affected don't normally get a say. To highlight a little, a lot of the guys affected by this I know, since I did work at the college for a time, so I know how they were feeling. It has opened the opportunity to see how it is done elsewhere though for a few. This includes the cargo and main fleet guys (although the number is small) that have been popped into Silkair to gain sectors so they are ready for command when they return.

And the exact same thing is going to happen for this new Silkair fleet. Rather than plan now and have a surplus of Junior Captains for a short time, they will go out of the way to make trouble for themselves AND future Silkair pilots and get 737 skippers from abroad who are unwelcome even though Silkair captaincy takes less than 5 years from date of appointment as FO.

Not to sure about this one, command training in Silkair is very ongoing and they do have a Singapore first policy for command applicants of equal standing / ability. Given the time period between now and the arrival of the first 737s, you would be looking at possibly 24 new command trainees going through the system with out any form of ramp up.

Silkair is also taking self sponsored pilots from outside of the SFC route as well.

The bigger picture I see here is just how low a confidence qualified Singaporeans who have made it have on Singaporeans who are just starting out. Are we really that bad? We understand you guys are from the generaiton that worshipped the white man. But please give the Singaporean Youth a chance please?

SA, I think you will find that over time it will change. The biggest issue from an aviation perspective that I saw and has been mentioned by another poster, the expectation of spoon feeding. With the changes that are meant to be implemented in the education system and the changes you see with younger people eg making their voices heard, free thinking etc. You may just see the caliber of applicant increase and therefore the number ratios also change. But bear in mind the industry isn't what it used to be and although pilots are well respected as a career, the lifestyle and pay scales are slowly edging closer to that of bus drivers. In some countries bus drivers are able to earn more than pilots....

As I post, it is Singapore's birthday. Happy Birthday Singapore

I hope you enjoyed your day Singapore, what ever you chose to do to celebrate.

[Stallone]

pilots all will have to re-do type rating do they?

[klmasdriver]

Are you able to say anything about Airbus vs Boeing For SLK ?
TolipsubriA
I sure can, rated on many types on BOTH and last 2 are B744 and A380. How about you? You have anything to say? What would you like to talk about?
This is how you decide to single out and take a pot shot at me? Of all the lopsided posts and debate on skewed historical fact and how opportunities emerged for the local boys in SIN drives you foreigners absolutely nuts ain't it?
SilkAir decided to switch back to B737 for obvious economics, everyone in the region knows that. SIN hardly got this wrong in their years of a/c purchase and ordering, we all know this is something that no one will ever know for sure, of the exact sweeteners thrown in by Boeing this time.
I simply can't stand the bashing by foreigners who think that we owe it to you so much, that the locals should yield whatever deserving slots that should come about as a consequence.
Wanna have another go? I'm pretty much done watching how you foreigners embarking on no facts, pure intimidation method. Give yourself ANOTHER tick on why you're not welcome in this region.

[CubaLibre]

While this thread has been entertaining reading, there has been little reference to the original question, and while I dont claim B747 or its successor on my licence I have in fact flown both the A320 and the B737-8/9, so if I may.

What you're going to hate.

When you walk in to the cockpit it is not the stylish open space that they're used to, the B737 cockpit is no advancement over the original 100 series. It has some TV screens but anyone who has flown the older versions will be right at home.

The cockpit is narrow, with those control columns in there just to make it more uncomfortable, so no more leisurely lunches while still having unobstructed access to the flight controls.

The big comfortable observers seat that you could sometimes get the FA to sit upon and chat with you is now replaced by some tireseome fold down job.

Trim.. you have to remember that now.

Flap numbering system, laughable I know but it will confuse most for a few months.

What you're going to Love.

Performance, it goes like a cut cat, and up to 43k. Its climb rate will amaze you, after all those years of sitting there watching the altimeter wind slowly upward and wondering whether you'll retire before getting to altitude. So those nights across the Bay of Bengal you may be able to get some of the worst of those bumps.

Flap One,.. 250 knots.

Systems abnormalities, very straight forward compared to the airbus.

Thats about it, I dont consider moving throttles to be a plus or a minus, if you dont have one ear out for the engine power anyway you're setting yourself up to fail.

And on the other topic, there is not one foreign born pilot in current employment that woke up one morning and thought, “hey why I dont go take a job in another country”. They applied for and were given an interview, and were offered a job. So take that up with the management.

[ironbutt57]

This is not the Singapore of the 1920s where you can plunder our land, **** our women and kick the locals

Really now....you left out shed our blood to kick out the Japanese, rebuild your "economy".:E

[de facto]

I have in fact flown both the A320 and the B737-8/9, so if I may.
Sure.
Performance, it goes like a cut cat, and up to 43k
Sure about that?
Flap One,.. 250 knots.
Have you done that before?
[QUOTE] if you dont have one ear out for the engine power anyway you're setting yourself up to fail.[QUOTE]
Huh?

[CubaLibre]

De Facto, my memory was failing me, 41k, thanks for the correction.

VFE -5, plenty of times.

Cheers.

[de facto]

VFE -5, plenty of times
You airline doesnt mind?

[VijayMallya]

The joy of multi fleet environment of Microsoft flight simulator....

[oicur12.again]

"SilkAir decided to switch back to B737 for obvious economics...."

For less obvious political reasons I think you will find.

"...we all know this is something that no one will ever know for sure, of the exact sweeteners thrown in by Boeing this time."

Thrown in by Washington I think you will find.

SQ is an extension of politics in many ways, very few fleet purchases are made with the hip pocket in mind.

[klmasdriver]

Really now....you left out shed our blood to kick out the Japanese, rebuild your "economy"
ironbutt57
Suggest you read your history again before flexing your baseless claims. You seriously want us to believe anyone of the colonizers SHED BLOOD and REBUILD economy for the sake of the local people?? Don't even get me started.

Depends what you mean by qualified: daddy is a captain, then sony is qualified?
Love PanAm
So it must be just this part of the world that is susceptible to cronyism? Shall we start collecting stats of how many off-springs of Ex-Delta, Americans, BA or the likes are cutting queue in their joining of daddy's companies? Next I guess you will try to argue they are more qualified that the local kids?
I have trained more than my fair share of Princelings both in Airforce and civilian sectors, they did just fine. It really rattled the heck out of you folks when your expatriate positions are jeopardized, ain't it?

SQ is an extension of politics in many ways, very few fleet purchases are made with the hip pocket in mind.

oicur12.again

None of my business to defend SQ position, I doubt very much more than a handful legacy carriers out there are able to be in SQ enviable position when it comes to aircraft purchase.

You'll find that many establishments watch with keen eyes, on how SIN, both Air Force and Civilian carriers decide on their choices of airplanes.

It's really not that difficult for anyone in the region to see how a combination of economics and technological expertise transfer arrangement will tilt the scale in many of their past aircraft purchases. I would love to hear more juicy news about political influence, that resembles that of China. If it's true that Washington has that much influence on SQ aircraft purchase, how does someone explain the switch of SilkAir from B737 to full A320 years ago?

[parabellum]

From my experience with SIA economics was the major player in any decision, be it aircraft, ground equipment, pay deals etc. etc. SIA are in the fortunate financial position to be able to try something out and if they don't like it they change it, (B757 etc. pilots liked it, commercial & marketing didn't).

[Jonny Wilkinson]

Does anyone know if Silk are going to recruit 737 F/O's to crew the new orders?

[etops777]

Jonny Wilkinson

Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: UK
Posts: 2
Crewing the Boeing order
Does anyone know if Silk are going to recruit 737 F/O's to crew the new orders?


Jonny

No recruiting on the Boeing for the first 2 years as the plan is only for the conversion training from the Airbus. As far as hiring in general of pilots, the staffing requirements will be transferred from SQ therefore no hiring until at least mid 2014.

[4runner]

De Facto, I'm sure about the flap speeds and the climb rate, especially a 700 and 800...Also, whoever mentioned actually listening to the engines is absolutely correct. This is the difference between a monkey and an aviator sitting in either seat. Additionally, the lack of thrust lever movement was shown to be a partial contributing factor to the loss of aircraft configuration awareness in the 447 crash. AF was hiring engineers and not pilots and the airbus was designed by engineers and not pilots. The results speak for themselves. I will agree that the Airbus has a MUCH better cockpit layout and more ergonomically friendly design. Also, our engineers are typed on both the Boeing and Bus and prefer the European product. At the end of the day, what we need are aviators and not operators behind the yolk/stick.