Map Orientation

[tomahawk1673]

I achieved my PPL last some time last year, however I still seem to have trouble with navigation.

My instructor taught me to always keep the map still...ie. north side up. However, I have stuck with this method, and still get confused at times...especially when going south. People have told me to turn the map so that the track is pointing towards the nose...that seems easier, but it's difficult to read the writing, and it seems the easy way out. What methods do you use. I am also hoping for an airline career, and was told that airlines prefer you to use north side up. I have never got lost, just find it difficult at times....what are the advantages and disadvantages of each....I suppose north side up is better if you do get lost, as you don't need to fiddle about orientating the map?

[AerBabe]

Aha... this old argument again!
Personally I use route up... but then I've always done a lot of walking, and that's the way I was taught. My instructor also taught me to fly that way.
I think the military teach you to fly north up, but they're not always right! ;)
I annotate my route in the orientation I'll hold the map, so my notes are always easily readable.
I guess if you're going commercial it might be a different story though... so I'll leave the pros to it! :)

[Fox_4]

Mil dont really have an SOP for the way the map is orientated. All the guys I fly with have his/her own way of drawing and folding the map. Although generally the maps are all done pretty similar so you can pick up a target map for example and run with it without much deciphering of the guys handwriting/position of info etc.

Most of the guys fly with their paper maps route up with all the relevant info oriented to that leg.

But then who needs paper when your moving map tells you where you are and where to go!

I would advocate route/leg up personally but thats only me. At the end of the day you only need the map to check heading pre/post turn, time of next turn & the feature and a quick check for avoids etc. You should know most of it from route study pre-flight so the map should just be there as a confidence check.

Low lvl nav is great fun though!

[GoneWest]

Tomahawk - your profile says you herald from the UK - many a commercial examiner has told me that the CAA want the commercial flight test to be completed with "route up".

The CAA told me they didn't give a b****r, provided you knew where you were.

AOPA (particularly in USA) have a very active program to combat runway incursions - and they heavily recommend taxiing with a surface chart in your hand and "route up".

[LowNSlow]

Route up with notes orientated accordingly.

[Lawyerboy]

Route up. Much easier.

[Don D Cake]

My instructor prefers route up, I can't read a map like that it has to be north up. Perhaps it's because I leant to navigate on a boat where you tend to use north up, I don't know.

I read roadmaps north up too but my wife reads route up.

But whan walking I read maps route up, weird.

Do whatever feels best, it's a matter of personal preference.

[FlyingForFun]

Has to be north up for me. Same with street maps, too - they're always north up. I have no problem following a route if the chart is route-up, but when ATC ask me for my position, I can't figure out the cardinal direction from the nearest landmark!

I don't think there's a good argument for either method - just use whatever you find easiest.

FFF
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[suction]

Route up for me too. I also make my 10nm markers little arrow heads in the direction of flight. Helps me reconcile what's left or right of track in terms of ground features no matter what way the map's orientated.

-S

[LowNSlow]

suction, do mean little arrows showing the direction of North? If so, good idea I'll start doing that. :D

If not, I'm confused :confused:

[Ace Rimmer]

Like the earlier poster I learnt nav on boats so it was north up and that seems right at sea (I tried route up but it just didn't seem right) In the Army I was taught route up and in the air I also tend to use route up - just seems more intuative. Bit strange that but there it is - whatever works works

[Cat.S]

I was actually taught route-up in the military- which just goes to show that it must depend on the actual instructor's own preferences. When I started flying I tried route-up and my first instructor advised north-up, which I still use (it is much easier to read the writing!). I tend to write a lot on my maps so keeping it north-up is necessary to read the various prompts I've made for en-route. North-up is not really hard when you're following a big black line on the map, although I have my GPS set route-up.

[Whirlybird]

I've tried both. North up makes it easier to read, route up means I can sort out east and west and right and left and all that. In my commercial nav exam the examiner didn't care so long as I flew the route and got to the places he asked me to. I still have trouble either way. I've come to the conclusion the only ideal way is to travel north.:D

[Clouded Yellow]

North up.....I also started in boats, so was taught this technique.

Drives my instructor mad, but I am not changing now.

[Legalapproach]

Route up for the obvious reason that what you see out of the window is what you see in your hand

The RAF teach route up and fold the map for the route - particularly for low level, although we had the luxury of a new map for each flight. North up on a boat may be fine but then I suppose not many boats are travelling at 420 knots.

[skippyscage]

North up for me, make more sense

route up never works ok in my head... but then it never was right :eek:

[Final 3 Greens]

Interesting thread.

Two persectives....

(1) context: if you're doing 420kts route up may be the way to go, but how many of us cruise much over 100kts?

(2) spacial awareness/orientation: some people can visualise time and space more easily than others.

Perhaps this is why there are two schools of thought about chart orientation and the choice is therefore a personal one rather than black and white.

Personally, I have used both approaches widely and on balance marginally prefer North up, simply because I can read the annotations more easily.

However, I find it very easy to make the mental flip between the line on the chart and what I see out of the front window. I visualise a little aeroplane flying down the track line per the moving map display on the TV screen on a BA airliner.

[tomahawk1673]

thanks everyone for your input.

just wish I could afford to experiment with both methods, so see if I can work this route up. It's just I don't want to get into bad habits :)

[Noggin]

Military pilots use track orientation, Navigators invariably used North up. If you are used to flying backwards as many navs did track orientation is much harder to work than North Up especially as the old V-Bomber radars were North UP.

At the end of the day its what is easiest for you. If you are lost try changing to North Up!

[javelin]

This has been proved to be a Boy/Girl thing. Barbara and Alan Peace in Australia did a study into the differences between men and woman. It was a better researched version of Venus and Mars. One thing they came up with was that women had great difficulty reading maps North up. Men could do it much more easily. There is even a road map of the UK printed South up for women who find it easier to have two maps. I guarantee you, this is not a wind up or a sexist thing - borrow or buy the book and enjoy. The book is excellent and explains lots of things about the two species! It is called Why Men Don't Listen and Women Can't Read Maps :)

[28thJuly2001]

North Up for me.
Walt,,

[Capt BK]

I personally fly North up. While I was doing my PPL both my FI and CFI both kept constantly telling me to fly Route up - because it was easier but I seemed to have great difficulty estimating headings. Try flying with both ways and go with the one you are most happy with, everyones different.

CBK

[Sliding member]

I would agree with FFF, as with a lot of things in flying there isn't always a right and wrong way, but I suppose we go with what our instructor said (because he's always right!), I tend to go with route up as I think it helps with orientation. Maybe you should try the other way as it may suit you.

[RW05]

Someone had to say it didn't they, Javelin? Actually it's no quite true. I'm female and I've always used north up whether I'm walking, driving or flying. I had 2 instructors + the CFI (male) try to get me to use route up but I can't. It's a personal thing. Use what works for you,T/hawk. If you can't afford to fly while you experiment do you have a friend who'd take you up, or can you sit in on another student you know well enough? Then you don't even have to worry about flying the plane at the same time.

[Final 3 Greens]

RW05

I was very careful with the words in my post.

Having a MSc in a closely related area, I am well aware that research suggests that many men are more spatially aware than women and that many women have a better ability to balance the rational and irrational sides of the brain (in Jungian terms.)

However, as you prove, this is not definitive and therefore I still believe that it is best to try both methods and then choose the most appropriate.

BTW, in scientific research a theory is never proven; it just stays on a temporal and provisional basis until disproven!

:D :D :D :D