Line training rank

[training wheels]

In Asia, it's common for new airline recruits undergoing line training to wear 1 bar during the training and when checked to line, they then wear two bars. Is this the case with airlines in Australia? Just curious as I've not seen too many pilots with one bar in Australia.

[Mach E Avelli]

There was a day when it was thus. You got two when you got your Senior Commercial, two and a half for a DC3 command, three for a heavy turbo prop command and four with a heavy jet command.
Nowadays I see guys in the recreational movement (ultralights fer chrissake) wearing four.
I think it may have been Ernest K Gann who made the observation that a pilot wore a large and complicated watch to compensate for a small dick?

[john_tullamarine]

I could never afford a flash watch .. so I guess I missed out twice ?

[T28D]

The concept of rank occurs in the armed services ( 2 way rifle range) it has no place in civilian life.

Sholder bars arean affectation that prevades both Aviation and the Merchant Marine.

In a crew of 2 it is hardly necessary to wear "Rank" to distinguish the relative roles and since the Cockpit is now a sterile area it really is not necessary for the passengers, and certainly does nothing on freight carrying.

A outdated and anacronistic concept methinks

[Checkboard]

You have a license which defines your qualification. There is no "rank" in civil aviation - there is only a "uniform standard", so you wear what the uniform standard for your company says.

Exactly the same pilot, with exactly the same experience, could move from a flying instructor position wearing three bars, to an airline wearing one bar, to a GA charter company wearing four bars - and most care not one whit for what is stuck on their shoulder - because (civil) pilots simply know that it is part of a company's advertising and matters no more to them or to other pilots than does the colour of their shirt.

[Howard Hughes]

When able I prefer to wear none!:ok:

[morno]

In an airline it simply means the dude wearing the 4 bars is generally going to be overpaid, overweight and old, :E

[Checkboard]

I'll cop the overweight and old bit - but NEVER overpaid!!!

The pay I get now is compensation for the pay I didn't get when I was having fun! ;)

[RENURPP]

the fatest guy in our company is an F/O or maybe it's cabin crew?

The oldest is definitely cabin crew.

Overpaid?? Not sure if there are any overpaid outside of management.

4 bars helps ground staff, cabin crew, engineers etc be aware of who they should be approaching.
Having said that modern HF and its touchy feely concept means you can tell anyone as long as they agree with you.

[Kiwiconehead]

I usually wear 7 or 8 bars when I go to the supermarket.

[prospector]

The gold bars seem to have infiltrated the people transport industry. I went for a ride in a bus a few days back, every confidence in the driver, he was a four bar bus commander.

[squarebear]

[QUOTE]The concept of rank occurs in the armed services ( 2 way rifle range) it has no place in civilian life/QUOTE]

Last time I checked Police, Firemen, Ambulance, SES, etc, were all associated with civilian life, and do forgive them, they were civilians as well. :rolleyes:

[Centaurus]

The concept of rank occurs in the armed services ( 2 way rifle range) it has no place in civilian life.

Well yes and no. Back in the early fifties I was the captain of a four engine bomber and held the rank of sergeant. Occasionally the base commander with Wing Commander rank would be my copilot. I referred to him always as "Sir" and he would refer to me as "Skipper". Worked out fine.

Later as a instructor on Lincolns I was required to test senior officers for type ratings and instrument ratings. Same principle applied. I called them "Sir" and most would address me by my christian name. Again it worked out OK and I never experienced any senior officer "pulling rank" I am sure the same situation applies in 2012

[SW3]

No rank in civil aviation? Not entirely true.
In the airline world:
Second Officer = 2 bars
First Officer = 3 bars (Even line training)
Captain = 4 bars

In GA I never had bars, however no one knew what you did outside the aeroplane either.
A uniform is important for professionalism; clients think you know what you're doing if dressed well, just as they think the plane is well maintained if it is clean.
Bars in the airline environment are important to know who is who and, in case of emergency, who is in charge.

Horses for courses.. RAA is recreational, why the bars?? Dress professionally but bars are over the top.

[Trojan1981]

Last time I checked Police, Firemen, Ambulance, SES, etc, were all associated with civilian life, and do forgive them, they were civilians as well.

They are civil defence personnel, combat agencies, and as such are not ordinary civillians like commercial pilots. They also have rank structures that use similar insignia to the Army; they don't wear bars (at least not in NSW).

No rank in civil aviation? Not entirely true.
In the airline world:
Second Officer = 2 bars
First Officer = 3 bars (Even line training)
Captain = 4 bars


This is not rank. In the ADF rank is earned regardless of job title. A Chinook Pilot might be a Major, but he/she has had to do the training necessary to lead a company of soldiers to earn that rank, that's in addtion to his/her flying training. The rank is recognised worldwide by all governments and the UN. Commercial pilots hold no recognised rank.

[propblast]

Friends used to ask me why I had 2 bars and other pilots had 3 and 4.

My reply was " Cause they had an extra $4 in their wallet the day we went to buy them".

Wasn't a lie either.:sad:

[SW3]

As far as my EBA and company manuals are concerned it is RANK, black and white. What else would you call it?

[Kharon]

In Australia there are many bars, some good, some bad and some only suited to slaking the most pressing of needs. You pays your money and take your chances. :D

[Worrals in the wilds]

A uniform is important for professionalism; clients think you know what you're doing if dressed well, just as they think the plane is well maintained if it is clean.If you want to test the theory, maybe you should try wearing a parachute and see what reaction you get...or a wing suit! :E:}

[NIK320]

It was handy back in my ground days when the company VHF was so bad you couldn't determine how much fuel they where asking for.

Once on the ground if you didn't know the crew you find the one with 4 bars.
3 bars would at least know where to look, 2 bars you would ask them to ask the captain to call you back.

[kingRB]

If you want to test the theory, maybe you should try wearing a parachute and see what reaction you get...

indeed. Always amusing hearing the reactions from tandem passengers watching the jump pilot put a rig on.

[quinnyfly]

The bars I like don't reside on your shoulders:rolleyes:!!

[kalavo]

Our company policy is one ****** bar per crash. Five strikes you're out.

[Anthill]

The old Ansett policy for bars was that:


bar when unter initial company training until CTL was completed.
bars after CTL.
bars after 5 years of service.
bars after CTL as captain.
There was a young Ansett captain who prefixed his name in the 'phone book with "Capt" :rolleyes: much to the mirth of many.



Bus drivers have worn bars for some time, hence the term Coach Captain
especially for the interstate drivers.



Whilst wearing the old Virgin uniform near the T-bus stop at the airport I was mistaken for the bus driver a couple of times. I'm glad not to wear that clown suit these days, however, the leather jacket was nice :)

[SW3]

No more being asked where the toilet is or if you can check someone in either Anthill?

[Worrals in the wilds]

Anyone wandering around an airport in uniform is fair game. I remember a New Zealand copper in uniform (he was over for some LEA pow-wow) who got asked all sorts of stuff despite having big kiwi patches on each shoulder and towing a suitcase covered in bag tags.

[Josh Cox]

I would prefer black velvet one piece flight suits, with a large carbonfibre codpiece.

Perhaps in green:

http://www.internetweekly.org/images/bush_codpiece_story.jpg

[greybeard]

I started as an F/O on DC-3s with HALF a bar.

Who cares really, my ARN starts with 036xxx so I am that old, bless the next morning.

:ok:

[D'pirate]

I'm with Greybeard about tomorrow and Centaurus has my respect too! GA pilots dressed as Bolivian Admirals do get my goat though :E

[Animalclub]

There was a young Ansett captain who prefixed his name in the 'phone book with "Capt" much to the mirth of many.

The wife of a new TAA Captain in PNG in the early 60's used to answer the telephone "Mrs Captain ******** speaking"!!!

[training wheels]

The old Ansett policy for bars was that:


bar when unter initial company training until CTL was completed.
bars after CTL.
bars after 5 years of service.
bars after CTL as captain.
There was a young Ansett captain who prefixed his name in the 'phone book with "Capt" :rolleyes: much to the mirth of many.


Thanks for that .. seems like similar to what happens in Asia then, but three bars is for those who have their ATPLs (yes, you can actually fly for an airline here with just a CPL).

Despite the ridicule that some of us make on the subject, the wearing of bars is much a part of an airline job. I'm just curious about what the policies are in different airlines.

BTW, in QF, during line training as Second Officer, do you actually get to do the take-offs and landings? Or is line training all done in the cruise?

[Mish A]

In Law Enforcement after 5 yrs and some study I had 2 white bars without paying a cent out of my own pocket.

Took a career break, 13 months and $$$ later I had a CPL and purchased 2 gold bars. Unsuccessfully went for one job that at best was going to pay 10K per year less than a Police Cadet, who incidently has no bars.

Back in original occupation for the time being (they gave me back 2 bars and paid for my re-training etc).

In summary, I'd have more fun being a pilot and it wouldn't worry me what bars I wore.

[Old but not bold]

Well Bugger Me, I am sure I could still fly just wearing my "Jock Strap and Runners" and if anyone questioned my authority:mad: