Boy, 11, boards plane at MAN with no passport or ticket.

[cldrvr]

An 11-year-old boy boarded a flight to Italy on his own without a passport, tickets or boarding pass, Manchester Airport has confirmed.
The boy got through a security screen by mingling with a family going through Terminal 1 on Tuesday afternoon.
He was discovered while the Jet2 plane was in mid-air after passengers became suspicious.
A Manchester Airport spokesman said the "extremely serious matter" was being urgently investigated.
He said: "It is clear that documentation has not been checked correctly at security and the boarding gate.
"The boy went through full security screening, so the safety of passengers and the aircraft was never compromised."
It is believed the boy had earlier run away from home.
He was flown home on Tuesday evening.


BBC News - Boy, 11, boards plane to Italy at Manchester Airport without passport (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-manchester-18979032)

[BOAC]

It may be that Jet2 do not do a head count on board which should have picked this up. BA have not done it for years (which was a constant bone of contention for me) 'relying' instead on dispatch to 'OK' the paperwork/SOB rather than an actual headcount (normally OK to divide that by one):). On the odd occasion when I asked for one (it can delay the perfect departure, of course:ugh:) a minor b0ll0cking for non-standard procedures ensued, with 'delay' allocated to 'Captain'.

[Otto Throttle]

They'd have got the little blighter if he had a bottle of water though. Got to focus on the important stuff. Passports and tickets....meh. :rolleyes:

[Cumulogranite]

This just simply highlights the problems caused by the overall degredation of standards in the industry, caused by the increasing pressure of short turnround times, worked out to the minute by people that have never had to manage a turnround. Coupled with the forever lowering prices to handling agents being passed on to the staff as minimum wage or part time contracts. Yes the industry cannot and must not go back to the bad old days of the legacy carriers charging stupid money to the passengers because they had an army of staff to pay for, but there is a dividing line that has now been crossed!

I just feel sorry for the staff concerned as they are now suspended, and will probably be sacked for this. Whilst I suppose they should face disciplinary action for this episode there needs to be a wider investigation as to why it happened, the pressure the staff were under at the time to get the aircraft out. The staff are damned if they do and damned if they dont, face the discipline trail for this episode, or do the job correctly and face the same for delaying the flight!!!

Prices need to go up, and that needs to be passed on to the ground staff, without wishing to insult anyone, the old "pay peanuts, get monkeys" applies!!!

[ajd1]

He would never have got through if he'd been wearing a pilot's uniform.

[topgas]

Just watching an interview on the beeb from Manchester - walking in the background three crew in uniform, male wearing a big England top hat, females wearing union flags sticking up from their hair. A dare, perhaps?

[Airclues]

BOAC

Unlike many airlines (I don't know about Jet2), BA cabin crew inspect boarding passes rather than rely on a head count. Surely this would have prevented this?

[BOAC]

Never seen the odd one 'missed'?

[Airclues]

No, but I have seen head counts repeated several times until the numbers agree!

[PukinDog]

That kid went out for a better pizza and earned himself a truckload of schoolyard cred for the fall when it's time for "What I did last summer".

Well done

[AnotherRedWineThanks]

Were the cabin crew supplied by G4S?

[NigelOnDraft]

Non-event IMHO ;)

No system is perfect, and I've managed to take a Milan ticketed Pax to ZRH.

There is a world of difference between a system you can reliably defeat, and one which accidentally allows 1 Pax amongst millions through in error.

Still, will be worth asking security at MAN for the next few weeks if they've seen an 11 yr old boy anywhere :ok:

[No RYR for me]

Non-event IMHO

No system is perfect, and I've managed to take a Milan ticketed Pax to ZRH.

Agree. The look on their face when they said "Wot, thees plane is not going to Munich?" on a Bristol bound plane is worth remembering :D

[AndoniP]

Cumulogranite

This should be just as much about the boy getting through the departure gate and passport control than getting past the gate staff and even on board checks.

He shouldn't have got past departures in the first instance - hopefully the departures staff and passport control staff were spoken to, not just the airline staff at the gate (if I presume it was the airline staff that were suspended?).

[Cumulogranite]

What passport control?? The UK doesn't have an immigration desk for outbound pax!!!

Airport security should have seen this, but again, cost cutting, poor rosters and low money mean the same thing. Perhaps this is the wake up call the industry needs to realise that the balance sheet isn't the be all and end all. Sometimes you have to pay more to attract the calibre of candidates needed rather than those sent by the Job Centre!!!

This kid should have been picked up at the security gate before the search. He should then have been picked up by the gate staff, and finally by the cabin crew. 3 levels of checks all failed, what are the odds on that?? But it has happened and lessons need to learnt. For me the main lesson which will undoubtedly pass by those investigating, is that the first 2 of the 3 checks are made by staff who are earning close to minimum wage or certainly low wages anyway, who are under immense pressure, have unstable rosters invented by managers who constantly try to make a pint fill a quart glass to hit budget and allow the bosses to announce record profits!!

Everyyone in the chain is to blame, the airlines that have driven prices down, the handling agents that have let them and the shareholders who demand massive returns every year. This event has been waiting to happen for some time, and all credit to the lad concerned.

What worries me more than anything is that if an 11 year old boy with nothing more than the desire to go on a plane can do it then what are the chances of a very focused and determined terrorist doing it? But as long as the staff are stopped from bringing liquids in and so have to pay stupid prices for drinks in the working day then the shopping centre with a runway nearby can exist and make more money!!!

This incident should open up a much needed and long overdue, ADULT, debate about the way airports and airlines are run. What's the betting that a few staff will be fired for attempting to avoid disciplinary action for doing the job right and delaying the flight and the rest of this incident will be swept under the carpet in the name of profit!!

[paully]

Your heart goes out to the staff involved in this one. I would imagine cups are being thrown at the wall in Leeds about now with the O`Leary of the north demanding someones(proably anyones) head on a stick for this. You would like to think that they might wake up and realise that airport security is not and never can be 100% foolproof and as presently constituted is little more than reassurance for the gullible. But dont hold yer breath :ugh:

Still got to admire the little lad but sounds like he`s a right handful at home :ok:

[VJW]

Cumulogranite I would normally agree with what you said, but hang on, if RYR cabin crew can check each of the passengers boarding cards on arrival, and then complete a headcount once they've all sat down, all within their 25 minute turnaround time, then ANY company can!

Oh Airclues, just because a cabin crew is suppose to check boarding cards, doesn't mean they never make any errors. In my opinion the headcount should always be done, as a cross check to what they have at the gate.

[Cumulogranite]

I quite agree about the headcount. But then crew can get it wrong, I know this from watching a departing flight lining up when a gezzer turns up a the desk saying "I was asleep, is that my plane?"

It all depends on how the airline manage the turnround. FR crew I am told follow the pax up the aircraft doing the security check so as the last one gets off they are ready for boarding. The flight crew do the loadsheet and have plenty of gate staff.

I dont know how Jet2 manage thier turnrounds but I have my overall impression of the industry in general, not just one specific airline!!!

[Above The Clouds]

You can just see all the new enhanced security checks coming into force as we speak = more delays :( :(

[LGW Vulture]

Meeson was always aware of the powers of the tabloid press - he might get a taste of what its like now for a day or two! :D

[Lord Spandex Masher]

"I was asleep, is that my plane?"

Yes, you've been offloaded. That means paperwork has been adjusted. Nothing wrong with that!

Everyone off.
Cleaning.
Security checks.
Everyone on.
Head count.

That's how Jet2 do it.

[Jetjock330]

Sounds like "Catch me if you can II". Amazing, and they still give crew a hard time for lipsick at security!!!!!

[moist]

And - for that reason I'm OUT!:\

[Callsign Kilo]

And his parents were doing what at the time?

Or is the case of running away from home, evading security at MAN, hopping on a flight to Rome unchallenged and then returning home yet another case of socially acceptable behaviour? We're not talking about some hoodie with an ASBO here, we're talking about an eleven year old. The little bandit has barely finished with primary school!

10 out of 10 for initiative though

[Fizix]

Enhanced security checks need only apply to 11-year-olds. ;)

[fireflybob]

All the companies I have ever worked for did a head count - is there an airline that doesn't??

As has been said previously though to get to the a/c two checks on boarding pass have failed.

I have never envied the cabin crew's job doing a headcount and being human I wouldn't be surprised by the odd error now and again.

But as long as the crew had pots of yoghurt or a can of Coke confiscated by security we have nothing to worry about.....

[sitigeltfel]

Escaping from Manchester :ok:

Having to return :{

[Big Tudor]

Everyyone in the chain is to blame, the airlines that have driven prices down, the handling agents that have let them and the shareholders who demand massive returns every year.

You missed one key person in that chain. The passenger! Every year we hear the whines of how bad airlines are. No on-board service, delayed flight, no IFE, no customer service. And yet year on year the fare paying public will hunt for the €1 fare like a pack of hyenas around a carcass. Until the people who pay the money realise that quality comes at a cost then we are never going to move away from bargain basement infrastructure.

[StopStart]

The two "holes in the cheese" that aligned here were the initial passport checks before screening and then the agents at the gate checking boarding passes. If the aircraft was boarded via an airbridge I don't think an on board head count is a strict requirement.

Whilst it appears the airline has suspended some staff I assume a similar action will be taken against the airport employees who let the young man pass unhindered into the Departures area?

[macuser]

A headcount is of paramount imprtance. Not just for being 1 pax over, but also, and more importantly, 1 pax under.

[Dylsexlic]

And he got through because all the staff made assumptions, the biggest one being that an 11 year old wouldn't be travelling without an adult, would he now?

Time to tighten checks on children at airports methinks. Especially as there are plenty of them who think it's a fun day out to go to an airport during the school holidays.

Got any badges or stickers, mate? For my school project?........:=

[vianostra]

Standards for both corporates and individuals have been slipping for years. It is not until the regulator takes real and meaningful action will things improve. AOC and airport operator suspension, Accountable Manager and Postholder removal, heavy fines, loss of license etc. etc. will assist greatly and help to focus the minds of those accountable and responsible to operate in a legal and fit and proper manner.

What hasn't changed over the years is that there will always exist some pilots, cabin crew, dispatchers, handlers, security staff and their respective supervisors and managers and auditors that are not suitable persons to be employed in the industry.

From the sharp end's perspective, it will be interesting to read the report on the incident and particularly on how and what the pic reconciled and signed off on given the dispatcher / handler paperwork and the cabin crew count.

And for those airlines who do not check and count, and pass on or contract out the responsibility to the gate as a time saving measure, it is simply and a deliberate exercise in wilful ignorance.

Safety is no accident!

[kazzie]

I believe Jet2 do not require a headcount if the aircraft is boarded via airbridge unless the captain requests one. Stair boarding however requires a headcount.

When families board flights. they normally pass you a stack of passports in one hand, and a stack of boarding cards in the other hand, with all the kids running around. It can be quite difficult for the gate agent to keep track as the parents allow there children to run where ever they want, including in and out of the gate. while the PSA organises the passport and boarding cards and keep track of the little ones running around. Plus the added pressure of minimal turn around times. Personally, I'm surprised this didn't happen sooner.

There is also the added possibility of parents being over protective of their children. I would thing quite a lot of people out there today are afraid to address children in fear of there parent screaming "child abuse" at them. Just look at how many people have complained about children being searched at security...That is also another factor in the puzzle here.

Besides, Who would ever think "that child over there is unaccompanied"?

The only changes I see happening, are head counts required on all flights. and to enforce the "passengers hold their own boarding cards" while boarding. It is requested in the boarding call that all passengers do this. However. Parents don't trust the little ones to hold their own ticket. Which is understandable. But It only makes PSA's jobs harder.

Or. Who's to say the kid didn't sneak behind one of the PSA's while they were checking other passengers Boarding cards? Nobody has eyes in the back of their heads.

[750XL]

The majority of airlines I work with don't require a head count, and the one's that do often take two or three attempts to get the head count right... Therefore I see the whole practise of counting heads fairly pointless.

[getonittt]

What worries me more than anything is that if an 11 year old boy with nothing more than the desire to go on a plane can do it then what are the chances of a very focused and determined terrorist doing it?

Errrrm the same chance as him buying a ticket to get on a plane ?

You worry too much , as do the H & S executive about us living and breathing. This whole story should be an anecdote but instead is being the subject of fake outrage in some quarters.

[westie]

Everyone off.
Cleaning.
Security checks.
Everyone on.
Head count.

That's how Jet2 do it.

Obviously not on this occasion

[t1grm]

I got on the wrong flight ages ago. It was AMS or BRU to LGW – can’t remember exactly – but there was a BMI (or whatever they used to be called) and BA flight going within 20 mins of each other from adjacent gates. I was checked in on the BA flight, didn’t read the gate, and was allowed to board and get seated on the BMI flight. :ooh:

No one noticed until the BMI passenger with the same seat as me boarded and accused me of being in his seat. I indignantly protested until we realised my boarding pass was blue and his boarding pass was red – at which point a very flustered cabin crew member told me I was on the wrong flight and had to get off the plane ASAP! :\

The next thing I was barrelling up the aisle the wrong way, knocking boarding passengers out of the way, to get off the plane and over to the other gate to get on the BA flight. I just made it! At least they found me before we took off... ;)

[fireflybob]

The majority of airlines I work with don't require a head count, and the one's that do often take two or three attempts to get the head count right... Therefore I see the whole practise of counting heads fairly pointless.

750XL, am amazed to hear that - thought headcount was a standard practice.

The fact that it occasionally takes an extra count is, in my opinion, not a valid reason for not conducting same. It's a procedure which is the last line of defence.

The last Company I flew with for several years was a loco where we did 25 minute turnrounds and the cabin crew were always required to do a headcount - if there was a discrepancy it was sorted before departure.

[Regulation 6]

Great adventure for the lad when his friends were probably in their bedrooms playing video games. 10.5/10 to him :ok:

Wish there were more like him

No system is perfect - suspending the staff is just a knee-jerk reaction to satisfy the numpties. I hope those affected are having a good time on the beach on full pay before their re-instatement.

[wkw198]

the jet2 boss has admitted to the bbc that they didnt (before today) do a headcount when they have used an airbridge (jetway).

what i dont understand is why the hugely expensive "swipe your boarding card" automatic gates BEFORE security that manchester airport spent so much time and effort to invest in, are no longer being used. someone posted on the Manchester Evening News website that "passengers didn't understand how to use them". well how hard can it be to hold a barcode against a barcode reader and step forward when the light goes green ? if they had been in place this would not have happened.

i flew out of manchester on sunday. before reaching the departue lounge my boarding card was checked only by the staff member who was handing out the trays and loading the xray. which looked like a busy job as she was also trying to help the dizzy person in front of me walk through the metal detector turnstile gate thing they have now. too many things to concentrate on at once, if it gets busy its easy to see how someone could get that far. the non-checking at the gate before boarding is less easy to understand but probably as people have suggested above, no-one expects 11 year olds to have the initiative to get that far into the system without a reason to be there.

and the lack of headcount was bad procedures. just an unfortunate triple-whammy here but sure people will be more careful in future.

[11Fan]

He had help from Mr. Bean methinks.

8m-bJa2pw6Q

[Helol]

Beats mooching around the local park whinging that he's bored.

A resourceful kid - he'll go far.

[Miken100]

I'm sure it's been discussed before that there's no such thing as absolute security but the systems are there to act as a deterrent - a balance has to be struck between creating that deterrent and making it possible to fly at all.

What I noticed the last time out of Manch on a domestic (BA to LHR) was turning up at T3 with a boarding pass on my mobile, which was checked three times, just before the security checks to go airside, again at the gate on boarding and finally at the door of the aircraft. What was not checked at any stage was any form of ID confirming that it was me travelling and no one else using my boarding pass... to me this seemed a bit lax - what do you think?...

[Basil]

Pity none of the Rome ground staff could have kept him overnight and shown him around a little whilst he was there.
It's just a one-off and ain't a loophole for terrorists.

When I was a child, and ran off with the little girl around the corner, we didn't even make it out of town before her aunt caught us alighting (getting thrown off?) from a bus :)

[Green Guard]

http://http://uk.news.yahoo.com/no-one-queried-rome-flight-boy-020418468.html

''No one queried' Rome flight boy' on Yahoo! News UK. A boy of 11 who flew to Rome by himself without a passport or boarding pass has ...

[Gulfstreamaviator]

on several flora.

[Impressive_Wingspan]

I think that young lad was lucky. I'm not being funny but if a cabin crew member said to me inflight we have an "extra" passenger on board with no ID and no boarding card i would not be in any sort of laughing mood. He would find himself restrained and i would be heading for the ground smart ish. And he certainly would not have been flying back with me. Hand him over to authorities and sort yourself out young man.

I've read the newspaper articles this morning and the mother had the nerve to pin it on the airport and airline. I was utterly utterly speechless, the fact the holes lined up that morning is unlucky. Especially for the staff who probably have mortgages, children and lives who may well loose their jobs as a result of this cretin's actions. To make it even more insulting he is in the press today hugging teddy bears and being made out to be some sort of hero. That bit of a kid epitomises everything that is wrong with our society.

An 11 year old leaves his mother at a supermarket and gets on a bus and there isn't a full scale hunt on? Did she even reporting him missing.

The mind boggles.

[radeng]

I think that with an 11 year old, restraints and leaving him abroad would drop you in it in no short order. Rather more trouble than no tea and no biccies.

[dazdaz1]

It's a good job he never accessed the f/d and told the Captain he is a new f/o they seem to get younger these days.

[Impressive_Wingspan]

Of course, silly me, because it would be my fault entirely that he is in the aircraft. Please put my mind at rest and tell me your joking? If you are not, you've got it massively wrong.

Now it would not be unreasonable to come to the conclusion that he has not gone through the appropriate checks prior to getting on the aircraft.
I would be immediately suspicious, who has he been in contact with and WHAT more importantly does he have on him? Here son put this package in your pocket and have this £100 and try and get on an aeroplane. Anyone will do!

Now I'm sure you are aware about the required travelled documentation. So why on earth would you take him home? The last time I looked, there was no waiver of travel documents for 11 year olds who'd taken it on themselves just jump on an aircraft.
Maybe a moral obligation. I doubt very much you'd be disciplined for "refusing" to break the legal requirement for carriage of the correct travel documentation.

Your post only ratifies my point. Kid does wrong, gets backed up! There is also something not not not right about his story. Sat in the toilet on board then came out and they had taken off, I don't think so.

[CafeClub]

Biggest problem with all this is i am due to depart MAN in the next few days and expect that the whole security farce at that airport will be even more in-your-face than ever.

Seriously though, what everyone seems to be overlooking is that this kid didn't wander onto the aircraft, he deliberately and wilfully snuck on. Yes that means someone didn't spot him, but no it doesn't mean that all children now have to be strip searched and have their body cavities probed by some ape on security. Or that somehow the earth is headed for annihilation, and the human race to extinction.

Its a non event that will once again take pecedence over logic and rational thinking and once again regulatory efforts will be made to counter darwin's thesis.

He just needs a swift kick up the arse (as do his parents no doubt) and we can all move on. Not that this will happen of course.

One question though: what was suspicious about his behaviour on the aircraft that got him busted mid-flight?

And please all stop whining about this being the result of low paid workers blah blah. This has NOTHING to do with how much anyone is being paid.

[jubilee]

At least that well known aviation expert ,Chris Yates ,got to sit on the BBC breakfast programme with Susanna Read.

[lenhamlad]

Now I'm sure you are aware about the required travelled documentation. So why on earth would you take him home? The last time I looked, there was no waiver of travel documents for 11 year olds who'd taken it on themselves just jump on an aircraft.

When he arrived in Rome he should have been met by a member of the Consular Section of the British Embassy who would have taken him back to the embassy, did the necessary checks and provide him with an emergency travel document to enable him to travel back to the UK. A ticket on Jet2 should have then been purchased and he would then be escorted by the consular staff back to the airport as a minor and put on a plane home. A bill for the services of the consular staff, which is available to see at all embassies overseas should have been presented to his mother - something in the region of several hundred pounds. Mother of course could recoup this from selling the story to the press.

[pasir]

... although not meant in the same context - certainly adds weight to the statement from Stanley Baldwyn in the 30's -

"The Bomber will always get through"

...

[Nicholas49]

Out of interest, who carries the can for this type of event? Would the aircraft commander be responsible for carrying a passenger 'illegally'? Would s/he be ultimately responsible for operating a flight with an inaccurate passenger manifest (even if the commander does not personally check who's on board)? Nothing 'too bad' happened here, but obviously it could have been worse if said undeclared passenger had other intentions.

Or is the blame laid solely at the feet of the airport security folk for not doing their checks properly?

Can any flight crew shed any light on this? I'm genuinely intrigued.

[deepknight]

Maybe the newspaper headlines should have read: 'Holiday Jet Shock Horror - airline industry unable to crush eleven year old's spirit of adventure!'

[Victor Inox]

Thank God they didn't let the kid get to the Vatican City and in the hands of priests :}

[radeng]

Wingspan,

I can see the problems. But having got there, he's to be got through immigration, undocumented. That's likely to delay your turnround, if only waiting for consular support. Now if they were like Sam and said 'Tha brought 'im 'ere, tha tek him back' - or if immigration flatly refused to let him stay, what then?

All in all, in terms of minimising delay, bringing him back was probably the quickest and least hassle remedy, although I agree, very unsatisfactory.

Leaving him there would have proved embarassing, to say the least, for the airline, and they're embarassed enough. Might even have had legal implications in the UK, too.

[lenhamlad]

If an airline carries a passenger who is improperly documented or has no travel document, immigration authorities can insist that the offending airline take the passenger back on the same aircraft, even if it means offloading another passenger. If it happened in the UK, the airline would also be charged detention costs until the person was removed. This puts the onus on airlines to ensure that those they carry are properly documented. As a matter of interest, airlines are charged £2000 for every undocumented person arriving in the UK. I would not be surprised if the Italians had such a charge. It puts a different slant on things when you consider the possible costs this "jaunt" could have cost the airline.

[edi_local]

Would Jet2 be fined if the boy didn't make it as far as Italy? For example, he stayed on board the UK Registered aircraft as it was on a turn around with the same crew. He never technically set foot on Italian soil.

[lenhamlad]

Not in that scenario, as far I am aware. But to teach him a lesson, after all it is theft, I would have offloaded him at Rome and passed any charges levied against Jet2 to his mother. For every action there is a consequence. Something my parents taught me at a young age.

[edi_local]

I agree with you.

Unless some kind of punishment is given to the boy then I wonder how long it will be before some copycat thinks it's the best idea ever to try something like this.

I would expect the mother to pay for at least some of the costs involved, but lets face it, the press will take her side and no doubt Jet2 will be made to look like an evil airline if they even attempt to take action against the boy or his careless mother.

[radeng]

If you unload him, and the immigration won't let him through and it ends up as nobody's responsibility, I suspect the authorities here might have something to say to you about neglect. Although you didn't intentionally do so, as captain, you became 'in loco parentis', and thus could be held personally responsible for anything that happened to the child.

[lenhamlad]

Radeng, if he comes off the plane, which was his intention in the first place, the local immigration authorities would have to accept him. They would of course have to technically refuse him entry on the grounds he could not satisfactorily provide evidence of his identity and nationality. The British Embassy consular section would then become involved given that he is almost certainly a British national, especially where there is a minor, so the captain would be absolved of his responsibility. But this all costs money and more disconcertingly, the Consular staff would have to provide assistance when there could be other British nationals in a greater need of the assistance of the embassy.

[frequentflyer2]

Eleven year old shopping with mother. Bored. "Fed up with this. Let's go to Rome," he thinks. "Now, how do I get there? Oh yes. Number xxx to the airport, and then Jet2 from Terminal One. I really want to lie on the floor of the Sistine Chapel and look up at the ceiling."
He waits for his opportunity. Mother is distracted by the exciting contents of the freezers.
"Now's my chance," he decides.
Boy boards bus. Boy gets off bus at airport bus station. Boy walks or takes bus from airport bus station to terminal one. Boy walks straight through departures to security checks, somehow evading boarding pass examination at entrance to security area. He takes off his belt and shoes, puts them in the tray, goes through the arch, collects them, and makes his way to the departure area.
He checks the board, goes to the appointed gate, and gets on the plane, somehow avoiding the boarding pass and passport check. Jet 2 has allocated seating, but somehow he sits in a seat which has not been purchased online or allocated at check-in.
Come on folks. Waken up and smell the coffee. This was a put up job. There was a huge spread in the Sun the next day. He may have slipped through but it was made easy for him. I'll bet a pound to a dirty penny there was some kind of journalist on the flight keeping an eye on him. I'll also bet money has changed hands in the matter.

[lenhamlad]

Would not be surprised. Only the other day the BBC managed to get a British reporter through Shoreham without showing his passport on a return trip to Calais, then it was all over the local news. Major security lapse etc etc http://www.pprune.org/private-flying/491319-bbc-shoreham-egka.html

[frequentflyer2]

There are just too many aspects of the story that don't add up. I didn't realise he claimed to have sat in the toilet during take-off. This is impossible. The door is opened, the toilet checked and the door locked before the take off roll begins. Boarding passes are checked before passengers enter the security screening area. How did he get round that? I fly often from MAN Terminal 3 and I assume the same system operates in Terminal 1. As I said in a previous post, Jet2 pre-assigns seating, unlike easyJet and Ryanair. He just couldn't get on and sit in a free seat, confident it hadn't been pre-assigned to someone else.
I don't buy this story.

[DaveReidUK]

It's a bit of a leap from the kid fibbing about where he sat during takeoff, to a full-blown conspiracy theory involving the press. After being found out, the little toerag is going to say anything that he hopes will minimise the trouble he's in.

As I said in a previous post, Jet2 pre-assigns seating, unlike easyJet and Ryanair. He just couldn't get on and sit in a free seat, confident it hadn't been pre-assigned to someone else.

No he couldn't be sure, but depending on how many pax were on the flight (do we know?), his chances of picking an unassigned seat might well have been better than odds-on, and of course the later he boarded, the greater the chance that any unoccupied seats would remain so.

I may be proven wrong, but I don't buy active cooperation of any third party.

[radeng]

I doubt we will ever know.....But I maybe proved wrong.

[TSR2]

I'll bet a pound to a dirty penny there was some kind of journalist on the flight keeping an eye on him. I'll also bet money has changed hands in the matter.

Sorry but I don't buy this conspiracy theory. If journalistic mischief was involved, there would have to be a return on their cash investment in the form of an exclusive headline 'scoop' whereas the story was actually first revealed by the BBC News.

[frequentflyer2]

Sorry but I don't buy this conspiracy theory. If journalistic mischief was involved, there would have to be a return on their cash investment in the form of an exclusive headline 'scoop' whereas the story was actually first revealed by the BBC News.

The BBC obtains the first editions of the next morning's papers. They do a preview on Newsnight. This actually works in the favour of newspapers because it provides a taster for the paper buying public. Therefore, if the story is interesting enough people will look out for it at their local shops the next morning. A good story publicised the evening before, when it's too late for rival papers to do anything about it, will guarantee increased sales the following day. This boy's adventure was the front page story in The Sun which was lying on the doormat of our neighbour's apartment as I left on the way to work. That was when it suddenly struck me there was something just a little far fetched about the whole thing. I'm a journalist, albeit a redundant one at present, with a 30 year newspaper career behind me. I worked with someone who gave up working for the tabloids because of the methods they employed to generate news. Believe me, this is exactly the type of activity they engage in to get a story.

[avturboy]

My goodness what a lot of hot air there is blowing around this story... so many asking questions … how did he do this …how did he do that … it shouldn’thave happened … well it did and now there is a need for those involved to pickup the pieces.

To suggest there was anything predetermined or orchestrated about this story is in my humble opinion ridiculous. To suggest that a kid of 11 years old really thought it through and understood the implications of what he was doing is also ridiculous.

On the day he got lucky, circumstances conspired to allow this to happen … with luck like his he should have been choosing lottery numbers for his mum last week (lottery is about 14 million to 1 that probably isn't far out with stats around this incident)

Yes there have been some embarrassing failures; this has brought the spotlight on some elements of procedure which need to be reviewed. But with the whole process relying so much on the performance of many individuals then it is hardly surprising that on occasion mistakes are made and something goes wrong. On this ocassion several failures lined up ... that's what happens sometimes.

As a business pax flying out of MAN I’ve witnessed some absolutely crap behaviour by gate staff and cabin staff; the truth is that could happen anywhere, it is not location specific, it is down to how the industry works … low cost … tight turnarounds et al … it’s an incident waiting to happen … and here it did happen

And you know what ... when it does happen it has probably already been allowed for by a very low probability score on a risk assessment somewhere ...

[frequentflyer2]

To suggest there was anything predetermined or orchestrated about this story is in my humble opinion ridiculous.

This an opinion you are fully entitled to hold, but I would be interested to know what you base it upon. Why is it ridiculous to suggest there was anything predetermined or orchestrated about the incident?

[DaveReidUK]

If it was a put-up job then it would have required not only a journalist minder but the active cooperation of a number of airport and airline staff. I assume that's what your " I'll also bet money has changed hands" remark was intended to imply.

Presumably in that case the size of the alleged bribe would have been sufficient to compensate the individuals concerned for the likely loss of their jobs in the ensuing investigation.

Happily, I don't share your low opinion of human nature. Clearly some of the individuals involved were less than assiduous in the performance of their duties, but that's a far cry from accusing them of being corrupt.

[avturboy]

To suggest there was anything predetermined or orchestrated about this story is in my humble opinion ridiculous.

This an opinion you are fully entitled to hold, but I would be interested to know what you base it upon. Why is it ridiculous to suggest there was anything predetermined or orchestrated about the incident?

A set up job involving a child, hell I thought I was a sceptic but that would truly be beyond belief; what the heck would it prove and why would anyone do that.

This is an unfortunate coincidence of several human failures happening at the same time in the same place. In any system that involves people this always a possibility.

[frequentflyer2]

Not in that scenario, as far I am aware. But to teach him a lesson, after all it is theft, I would have offloaded him at Rome and passed any charges levied against Jet2 to his mother. For every action there is a consequence. Something my parents taught me at a young age.

For every action there is indeed a consequence. I would imagine there would be consequences for Jet2 of some kind if they off loaded a child of 11 suffering from learning difficulties in Rome and left him there. Yes, the child in question suffers from learning difficulties. His quotes are quite childish, even for an 11 year old. However, I digress, as I want to make it clear that my comments about money changing hands did not refer to airport or airline officials. The media cannot name minors or publish photographs of them without the permission of their parents, a person acting in loco parentis, or a court of law. Despite the fact her son is just 11, and suffers from learning difficulties, the boy's mother was quite happy for him to describe his experience, and for his photograph to be splashed across both the paper and its website. I wonder why?
The more I hear about this, the more I suspect this was a deliberately generated story. You don't just wander in to terminal one from Manchester Airport's bus station. You have to take a lift or escalator up to the level of the glass walkway, and then walk some distance or ride on the travelator, before going down a level to enter the terminal.
After miraculously passing through security without being detected, the boy claims to have wandered down the airbridge in search of a toilet. The one he found just happened to be on a Jet2 737. Somehow, he got stuck in it and "whoosh" he was up in the air. Oh come on. There has to be more to this.

[lenhamlad]

I would imagine there would be consequences for Jet2 of some kind if they off loaded a child of 11 suffering from learning difficulties in Rome and left him there. Yes, the child in question suffers from learning difficulties.

A number of points

1) the crew were not to know that the child had learning difficulties. He clearly had the wherewithall to get onto an international flight without any documentation whatsoever

2) once handed over to the Italian authorities, the British Embassy would then have to look after the child's welfare, including his repatriation. After all, he was seeking adventure so why not add to it by handing him over to the Italians

3) what if the flight was full for the return to Manchester? Should the company offload a fare-paying passenger for the sake of an attention seeker?

[DaveReidUK]

Despite the fact her son is just 11, and suffers from learning difficulties, the boy's mother was quite happy for him to describe his experience, and for his photograph to be splashed across both the paper and its website. I wonder why?

Back-to-front logic here.

If it was a put-up job, would it be splashed all over the sponsoring newspaper ? Yes, of course.

If it's splashed all over a newspaper, does that mean they sponsored the escapade ? No. They might have, but so far there's not a shred of evidence to support that theory.

All we can reasonably infer is that the mother was happy to go public and was probably paid well for her trouble.

Post hoc, ergo propter hoc ...