View Full Version : Skills test: was frustrations, now PASSED.
So I've been ready to take my skills test for a number of weeks now - all exams, qxc etc done a long time ago, instructor more than happy that I'm ready, but due to various delays it hasn't happened, and doesn't look like it's going to for a while. My club operates from a grass strip and with the amount of rain we've had recently, even when the sun is out the strip has been too water logged to fly off, with today being a perfect example. Add to that a shortage of instructors, a busy CFI, and lots of bookings, and even getting a slot to do any flying is proving hard enough.
My last two test slots were cancelled due to weather, and the CFI now isn't free for a couple of weeks. Should that slot be cancelled, no doubt it will be another couple of weeks to the next slot. I can't even get up in the air to do any revision at the moment, and it's getting really frustrating. I appreciate the various operational challenges the club has, but from a selfish point of view I just want to get this done now, I'm wasting time and money hanging around in limbo when realistically I should be making good use of my new license by now.
So what alternatives do I have? There's a couple of other clubs locally with hard runways, even one where my instructor works on the days he's not at my main club. Assuming CFI availability, is it feasible in any way to go and take my skills test at an alterative club. If so, what needs to happen to facilitate this? One of the problems will be the fact that I've learnt in a Robin, whilst all other clubs locally operate the standard Cessnas, however funding and my availability are not an issue. Any advice appreciated please!
Whopity
15th Jul 2012, 10:37
As you say you have completed all your training so all you need is an Examiner. There is no need to go to a club or any other organisation. If you find an Examiner and there are plenty, I am sure they will be able to source an aeroplane of your choice and conduct the test at mutually convenient date.
I presume the examiner would need to verify that I'd completed all other aspects of my training first - would he need to see paperwork etc? Or would he just (hopefully) pass me on the skills test, than I'd take that back to my club to actually send off for the license?
BackPacker
15th Jul 2012, 10:53
I would talk to the CFI, and see if he can get one of the Robins out of that field and into the field where he teaches on his "off" days. You can then do your skills test with your CFI from that other field.
Furthermore, let the CFI know that you would be available for a skills test anytime, with about two hours notice. So if he's got a cancelled lesson he can phone you up and you can do the skills test right there and then.
It's my instructor that works on the other field rather than the CFI, who wouldn't work on his days off.
Problem with cancellations is I need three slots for the skills test, so it's unlikely the required period will become available. Also, I could only work on such short notice periods at the weekend - I work Monday to Friday and whilst I can take a day off at short notice, I couldn't do it on the same day.
lenhamlad
15th Jul 2012, 14:26
I recently passed my skills test and finally got my licence in my hand on Monday past so recognise the frustration you face. I also work part-time at my airfield (Headcorn in Kent). We have four Robins here and a grass strip that is still in operation despite all the rain. Another bonus we have is a corridor out of the R112 olympic zone, so no need to file a flightplan with Atlas. We have a very accommodating CFI so if I can be of assistance, send me a pm to discuss further.
pboyall, one may consider the possibility that it's Sibson I'm training at ;)
lenhamlad, thanks for the offer - I'll explore my options locally first but if those don't work out then I'm not adverse to the option of travelling to get this sorted out!
I've make contact with another club today who are going to call me back tomorrow but believe they can get me tested pretty quickly. Differences training to a Cessna will be a pain, although I do know of another Robin that's part of a local group I'm considering joining once passed anyway, so may explore the option of using that for the test.
Well I've had a rather disappointing response from the alternative club I enquired at, basically stating that they'll allow me to do the test there, but they will not organise an examinor or plane as it would be illegal, and the examiner has to be organised by my current club.
I doubt my club would be interested in finding an examiner for me as it's not in their interest, and that combined with having to have differences training on a Cessna or such suggests that I really don't have many other options other than sit back and wait for the weeks / months until I can finally take my test at my current club.
This is really starting to affect my motivation now, I feel like I've wasted an inordinate amount of time and money in recent months for what has been very little progress through no fault of my own, and there's no current indication of when I might actually get somewhere... :sad:
Bad_Wolf
16th Jul 2012, 11:12
DS3 - you have a PM
lenhamlad
16th Jul 2012, 11:49
This is really starting to affect my motivation now, I feel like I've wasted an inordinate amount of time and money in recent months for what has been very little progress through no fault of my own, and there's no current indication of when I might actually get somewhere...
Don't get too despondent Ds3. I felt very frustrated in the time leading up to the skills test - I think there was a five or six week gap between the QCX and my skills test. It just makes all the sweeter when you finally get there.
It's been over two months since my QXC, and all I needed to do in between was a bit of revision! But down to weather, lack of availability of planes, instructors, and the CFI, and a washed out runway, I'm still no closer!
lenhamlad
16th Jul 2012, 13:11
Look on the bright side. You're saving your money for when you have passed!
True enough, although I think more of a consolation is the weather has been so bad recently that had I passed I probably wouldn't have been able to fly much anyway!!
RyanRs
16th Jul 2012, 22:13
Im in the same kind of predicament as you Ds3, im 40 hours up, changed schools after 35 hours from Rochester to Headcorn due to my instructor leaving and 'other reasons' that has left me slightly unimpressed with my previous school, so lost a good 4 hours getting acquainted with my new instructor and the airfield procedures etc- basically convincing the guy im as good as the training paperwork says i am!
Anyway, i have cancelled my QXC four times now over the past two months due to weather / aircraft availability, i finally got a slot last thurs so flew down to lydd for x-wind practise. It went well but given the 7 weeks away from being in an aircraft, my confidence was lacking and given the choice of doing my QXC that day i would have probably turned it down. Now im worried it will be another 7 weeks before i get a slot again and ill just be doing another trip to lydd for yet more practise! The Olympics airspace restrictions is likely to cock things up further now too as the school is still undecided on whether to allow students to fly solo QXC's so close to the boundaries encase something goes wrong.
I think if i was you, i would just pick a decent airfield where your guaranteed a CFI and aircraft type and a solid runway! so the only thing left is the weather.
Lenhamlad -how did you find the skills test after the 6 week gap? was you worried about being rusty? did you find the skills test easier or harder than you expected? and who was your CFI?
foxmoth
17th Jul 2012, 05:08
I doubt my club would be interested in finding an examiner for me as it's not in their interest
It certainly should be in their interest, try asking them, and make it known that if they are not forthcoming you will look to change where you fly from after you have passed! Any decent club would want to look after their customers and if they were this unhelpful would you really want to stick with them anyway?
RyanRs, sounds familiar and you have my sympathies. I had some pretty long gaps like yours, but rather than let myself get rusty I've flown when I can even if it's just a few circuits. Obviously this has cost me, both in terms of money and adding hours on to my totals, but I'd rather keep current and hey at least I'm getting some sort of flying in!!
As mentioned, my QXC was over 8 weeks ago but I've flown at every opportunity (sadly not that many) since then. I'm up to around 58 hours now, but much of those have been flying for flying's sake, and if the feedback I have received is anything to go by I would have happily passed in around 45 under the right circumstances... :ugh:
lenhamlad
17th Jul 2012, 10:51
As mentioned, my QXC was over 8 weeks ago but I've flown at every opportunity (sadly not that many) since then. I'm up to around 58 hours now, but much of those have been flying for flying's sake, and if the feedback I have received is anything to go by I would have happily passed in around 45 under the right circumstances.
Ds3, my view is that no flying is wasted time, so whether it is before or after the skills test is irrelevant - it's all still money out of your pocket. In fact one could argue that it is more practice before the big day. For what it's worth, I had over thirty hours on taildraggers before moving to Robins. It all stood me in good stead for the big day.
Lenhamlad -how did you find the skills test after the 6 week gap? was you worried about being rusty? did you find the skills test easier or harder than you expected? and who was your CFI?
I continued to fly in between the QCX and had two hour session the day before so was feeling quietly confident. I also used the time to brush up on my in-flight checks HASSEL etc so they were firmly in my head.
piperarcher
17th Jul 2012, 11:03
This is really starting to affect my motivation now, I feel like I've wasted an inordinate amount of time and money in recent months for what has been very little progress through no fault of my own, and there's no current indication of when I might actually get somewhere...
I know your frustration, but it's a side effect of the hobby we enjoy. I waited for about 6 weeks to get the right combination of plane availability, examiner and weather and that was for IMC renewal which by virture doesnt need as much good weather as does a skills test. I waited about 2 months for my FAA Biannial flight review renewal as well. If your in full time work elsewhere, and you have to compete with others for aircraft, examiners, and slot times, then there will invariably be delays.
Even when you have passed, you will have frustrations, but its better to be in that position, than not be a pilot and get to experience all the wonderful aspects of it :-)
Grob Queen
17th Jul 2012, 11:19
I've just pm'd you
GQ
Got the PM thanks Grob Queen, will reply.
Absolultely agree that no flying time is wasted time, hence why I have been flying whenever I can despite the lack of progress with regard to the PPL. I guess the frustration is just that I want to lose that schackles that come with being a student and actually start doing more constructive things that come with the freedom of being fully licensed!
My next slot is the middle of next week anyway, so I've given up trying to take it else where for now as swapping on to a different plane etc makes it too complicated. The forecast looks okish for next week so everyone please keep you fingers crossed for me! The real issue will arise if that slot is cancelled and it's then another two weeks before the next available one - that'll be breaking point I think!!
airpolice
17th Jul 2012, 21:36
basically stating that they'll allow me to do the test there, but they will not organise an examinor or plane as it would be illegal, and the examiner has to be organised by my current club
wtf? I do read some pish on here but that made me sit up and read it twice!
Thank you all for your advice on this - I'm pleased to say that all the ducks lined up yesterday and I managed to get through the test successfully!!
It wasn't a pleasant experience - three hours in a glass canopy'd Robin in 30+ degress, having to go to another airfield to pick up fuel first (don't ask!), differences in what the CFI expected and what I'd been taught, poor vis whilst navigating through an area I hadn't flown in before, zero wind so poor performance from the plane both in terms of power and short field performance... I think I'm still suffering from sunstroke but it's starting to sink in now!!
I don't suppose there is any way to expedite the license from the CAA? Having read a few other threads, it would appear that all you can do is phone in to check they're working on it, and maybe go and collect it rather than waiting for the post?
stevelup
26th Jul 2012, 09:29
I don't suppose there is any way to expedite the license from the CAA? Having read a few other threads, it would appear that all you can do is phone in to check they're working on it, and maybe go and collect it rather than waiting for the post?
You can drop it off. They check all your paperwork is present and correct there and then and take the payment from you.
The return delivery is by courier anyway so I doubt picking it up (even if it was possible) is likely to save much time.
Genghis the Engineer
26th Jul 2012, 10:23
Many congratulations, and it sounds like you got a major learning experience from the skills test, which is great - even if it didn't feel like that at the time.
Now the real fun, and the real learning, begins !
G
Thanks G :D In all honesty it was hell, I got out the plane afterwards stressed, dehydrated and mentally exhausted, but no doubt I learnt a lot from it too!!
Can't wait to get going now!
taxistaxing
26th Jul 2012, 12:17
You can get the license on the same day if you're prepared to attend the CAA offices at Gatwick. You have to queue up in the morning to drop off and are allocated a slot later the same day to collect. Slots are first come first served so worth getting there early. When I revalidated my PPL they let me drop off and then collect from security that night after the office had closed so I managed to get back to work for the afternoon :ok:
lenhamlad
26th Jul 2012, 12:17
Congratulations. I took my paperwork into the CAA and paid the fee (£191 including courier postage) and it took about three weeks for it to come back. I see no point in phoning in regularly. I waited a couple of weeks before doing so and it was ready to be signed.
I understand your comment about lack of wind. Did a quick circuit on Monday and was far too fast on approach for the nil wind. One of my worst landings in months.
Happy flying.
taxistaxing
26th Jul 2012, 12:20
Edited to remove duplicate post
stevelup
26th Jul 2012, 12:20
You can get the license on the same day if you're prepared to attend the CAA offices at Gatwick. You have to queue up in the morning to drop off and are allocated a slot later the same day to collect. Slots are first come first served so worth getting there early. When I revalidated my PPL they let me drop off and then collect from security that night after the office had closed so I managed to get back to work for the afternoon :ok:
I'm fairly sure (in fact 100% certain) that you cannot do this for the initial issue of a PPL.
taxistaxing
26th Jul 2012, 12:23
Apologies wasn't aware of that...
I Love Flying
26th Jul 2012, 12:39
Congratulations Ds3 :D:D:D
I found the skills test a huge ordeal too, and it took a few weeks to recover from it!
I took my paperwork to Gatwick in person the day after my skills test (be there well before 0830 though as the slots get taken up very quickly) and handed over my documentation and fee. Two weeks to the day, I received a phone call to say it was ready for collection. I don't think there is any way of making it any quicker than this.
I understand that whilst waiting for a licence to be issued, you can still fly under your instructor's licence privileges.
stevelup
26th Jul 2012, 17:53
I understand that whilst waiting for a licence to be issued, you can still fly under your instructor's licence privileges.
That is a notoriously contentious observation that normally results in twenty pages of discussion and no final consensus :)
Jude098
30th Jul 2012, 19:17
Welcome to one of this world's best clubs.
Jude
Jude098
30th Jul 2012, 19:19
You can fly solo while waiting for the actual licence and return of your log book. But you have to be seen off by an instructor from your licensed training school. Log book, when it finally arrives, is completed using P1S (pilot in command under supervision) same as you put in the entry when you successfully completed your GST
thing
30th Jul 2012, 19:33
Congrats, excellent job. I had to wait for a month to get mine done and it was excruciating.
poor vis whilst navigating through an area I hadn't flown in before
Er, you'll probably get quite a lot of that from now on !:)
Thanks :ok: Yes excruciating is an appropriate word, and it isn't over yet as I still haven't got the paperwork from my club to send off to the CAA as the CFI is too busy. I'm guessing they don't want me back as a repeat customer!
taybird
30th Jul 2012, 20:53
Well done, it's a massive deal and I don't think anyone flies a perfect test for the whole time of the test. It's human to fuddle some bits, but what they're looking for is that you're safe - you recognise the mistake in time and fix it.
Re CAA issue times, it took my CPL initial issue around 2.5 weeks (then another 3 days chasing the courier, but that wasn't the CAA's fault). Bear in mind that the guys there are pretty stretched with resources trying to work out EASA, plus lots of people are trying to get tickets before the "change" including PPL, IMC, CPL etc. Chasing them doesn't make it any better.
The best advice I have for you now is to go through your forms with a fine toothed comb to make sure everything is correct and as it should be. Go through your log book and make sure your adding up is correct (when I transferred to digital I discovered I was an hour short on my required solo time for initial licence issue). Definitely make sure your payment form is filled out in full. Then photocopy the whole lot, including every page of your logbook. If anything were to get lost, it's irreplaceable.
Then send it off, or deliver it, go out and have a few drinks to celebrate and enjoy watching some sport on the telly. Or, if you have to fly, take a ride in something you've never flown before - try aerobatics, or vintage Tiger Moth, or something modern and sleek - there's a whole range of flying out there to try. This will keep your bum in the air and will be valuable experience even if not log-able, so won't be wasted effort. Plus you might find out more about what might interest you for your future flying. Before you know it, your ticket will be back.
stevelup
30th Jul 2012, 20:59
You can fly solo while waiting for the actual licence and return of your log book. But you have to be seen off by an instructor from your licensed training school. Log book, when it finally arrives, is completed using P1S (pilot in command under supervision) same as you put in the entry when you successfully completed your GST
The one and only thing that can be logged as P1S is a successful flight test. There is no way on earth you could log those extra solo hours that way.
Jude098
30th Jul 2012, 21:03
P1S is what my flying schools training officer said I had to put in the log book as my solo flights were undertaken under "supervision". So thought it was correct.
stevelup
30th Jul 2012, 21:06
P1S is what my flying schools training officer said I had to put in the log book as my solo flights were undertaken under "supervision". So thought it was correct.
No, that is completely wrong. So did you log -all- your solo flights as P1S?
This is absolutely basic stuff... I think you should name and shame!
piperarcher
30th Jul 2012, 21:23
P1S is what my flying schools training officer said I had to put in the log book as my solo flights were undertaken under "supervision". So thought it was correct.
Shouldnt it be PU/T (Pilot under tuition), until you get the official bit of paper? I thought P1/S was for post qualification exercises like bi-annuals. Again, I may be wrong.
dan_vector
30th Jul 2012, 21:28
AFAIK you can only log as follows:
PUT - Dual training with instructor sat next to you.
P1 or PIC - any solo flight time
PICUS - SUCCESSFUL flight test (PUT if failed test)
Hope that helps.