Flybe Q400 Flapless Landing at EGHI Yesterday

[regor]

I was on flight BE632 from Guernsey to Southampton yesterday which suffered a problem with its flaps, resulting in two discontinued approaches before the Captain finally announced we would be landing "a bit faster than normal". My seat was right by the trailing edge of the wing so I could see that the flaps had only extended by about 4 or 5 inches before getting 'stuck' They remained in this position after landing and when we got on stand.

First of all, just wanted to say thanks to the crew for keeping us informed of what was going on and the professional way the situation was handled. It made for an exciting landing! :ok:

I have flown with Flybe 6 times in the last week and a half and 3 of these flights have been affected by a tech issue of one sort or another. Discussions with other regular Flybe passengers revealed that this is pretty common. This gives me the perception, as a passenger, that the Q400 doesn't exactly have a great track record for reliability. Is this known to be the case with this aircraft type, or I am just adding 2 + 2 and making 5?

Any informed repsonses welcome.

[stilton]

Isn't that about as non event as you can get ?





I mean, this is a straight wing turboprop.




Nothing to it.

[Serenity]

The dash reliability does seem to be getting worse as they get used more heavily.

As far as I'm aware this is the first flap problem, certainly for some years.
SOU is a reasonably shorter runway than most, but that would be taken into consideration with the performance calculations.

The other problem with a flapless landing on the dash is the vastly increased risk of tailstrike with much more than minimal pitch up.

I would say a text book handling by the crew, well done!!
Not a major event, but not a non event as there is much to consider!!

[Cough]

As far as I'm aware this is the first flap problem, certainly for some years.

Would this (http://www.aaib.gov.uk/cms_resources.cfm?file=/DHC-8-402%20Dash%208,%20G-JEDR%2009-11.pdf) have been the last one?:E

[Set 1013]

There was another flapless landing by a Q400 into MAN within the last year. I believe it diverted from LBA due to cross wind limits. I think there is a clip on youtube.

It is fair to say that the fleet is being worked very hard at the moment, all doing approx 8 sectors a day. If I worked that much I may start to have the odd tech issue.:ouch:

Lets hope these new jets get online ASAP!

[Depone]

Isn't that about as non event as you can get ?

I mean, this is a straight wing turboprop.

Nothing to it.

I hate comments like that. Any actions that require reference to the QRH are not 'non events'.

[CF105-Arrow]

The dash reliability does seem to be getting worse as they get used more heavily. Is this something that's being experienced by a range of Q400 operators or just a select few? Arrow

[Hotel Tango]

Horizon Alaska work their fleet of DHC-8-400s hard. Just out of nothing more than curious interest I'd like to know what their fleet's reliability statistics are in comparison to Flybe.

[pigboat]

Would this have been the last one?

Down East International used to have a "Have Landed" cabin ordinance sign on the Vanguard. ;)

[CityofFlight]

I live in Washington and fly as a pax regularly on Horizon and have done so for years. I have never experienced any incidents.

[awblain]

No flaps? Could have been worse - at least they had all the wheels.

[CF105-Arrow]

Horizon Alaska work their fleet of DHC-8-400s hard. Just out of nothing more than curious interest I'd like to know what their fleet's reliability statistics are in comparison to Flybe. Likewise, I'd be curious about Porter's here in Toronto. To these non-professional's observations, their fleet seems to be in pretty constant motion but whether it's comparable, I couldn't say

[zlocko2002]

In Croatia they are caling them Trash-8

[DavidWoodward]

In Croatia they are caling them Trash-8

I know a few BE pilots calling them this too.

[donnlass]

I thought Flybe had ordered a load of new Embraer's

Have they not come into service yet?

[DavidWoodward]

I think I'm correct when I say 20 E-Jet delivered with 29 on order. All of their 195 orders have been delivered and the outstanding ones are 175.

[StormyKnight]

Technical question, did the flaps on both wings jam? How does this system work if one side is jammed & the other working. Do the pilots get an indication of the actual position of the flaps rather than just the selected position?
Why two discontinued approaches & then a notification that we will be landing a bit faster....seems to indicate that he attempted the landing twice but was unhappy with the approach performance of the aircraft & then worked out that the flaps where an issue...compensated & then landed ok.

[Ollie Onion]

From my time flying the Q400 I seem to remember the flaps were very temperamental. Usually a mishandling of the flap lever could lead to the flaps becoming 'stuck'. Seem to remember that there was a reset which would normally fix the problem. I suspect what happened here is that on the first approach the flap became stuck so the approach was discontinued so that the reset could be completed. It probably appeared to have worked so a second approach was commenced but the flaps became stuck again due to a fault, so once again it was discontinued and the aircraft prepared for a flapless landing. All pretty textbook and certainly nothing to get to worried about.

[Lord Spandex Masher]

....seems to indicate that he attempted the landing twice but was unhappy with the approach performance of the aircraft & then worked out that the flaps where an issue...compensated & then landed ok.

Really?!

Ollie, I thought the reset could only be done on the ground, memory fading though.

[Boing7117]

From my time flying the Q400 I seem to remember the flaps were very temperamental

I've been flying the Q400 for 4 years and never had a problem with the flaps. The flaps are not temperamental, and such a throwaway comment from someone who no longer flies the Q400 should be disregarded.

There is an in-flight reset for a flap problem which is part of the checklist for such a problem.

Job well done to the crew involved.

[regor]

Why two discontinued approaches & then a notification that we will be landing a bit faster

The reason for two discontinued approaches was exactly as Ollie Onion described. This was how it played out:

The Captain announced that an amber warning indicating a problem with the flaps had illuminated and that we would be entering a holding pattern while they worked through their checklist. (Presumably the QRH covers this scenario).

A short time later he announced they had resolved the problem and we began our second approach. Landing gear came down briefly, but the flaps didn't move so the landing gear was retracted and another announcement was made that the problem had recurred and we were entering the hold again.

Presumably the reset didn't work and the Captain announced that we would landing without the desired amount of flap but reassured us that it wasn't a problem, we would just be landing a bit faster than normal. With that, the cabin crew came through the cabin to ensure everyone's seat belt was nice and tight!

As I said previously, the crew were informative and professional, and although some of the more nervous flyers were looking a bit pale, I personally didn't have any concerns.

I believe the return flight with this aircraft was cancelled, but it returned to service the next day. I find it reassuring that the crews are well trained and it certainly doesn't change my attitude to flying. My frustration is aimed at Flybe and this aircraft type which is frequently going 'tech'. Whilst not quite a monopoly, there aren't many options for flying with anyone else from Southampton, but I'm beginning to wonder if its worth choosing my local airport over Heathrow when I can't be sure if a flight will actually go ahead due to frequently recurring technical issues.