BA suspends all CEP, DEP recruitment.

[Hugh Jampton]

Reliable sources suggest that BA has, for the time being, suspended all CEP/DEP pilot recruitment. This affects new applications and people who are currently in the process of applying. This will remain in force for at least several months.

Good luck...

Hugh

:eek:

[RVR800]

The web site is still advertising vacancies?
But then when are company web sites accurate?

US airlines are planning for falls in demand of 30-50% during the next six months, Chris Avery, aviation analyst at JP Morgan told the Financial Times.

And grounding airplanes, rather than flying empty seats around the world, may be one of the ways which airlines can try and save costs.

[sloany]

Just had a call from BA and I have been told that the CEP courses are suspended until further notice.

An absolutely gutted...
Sloany. :( :(

[ 14 September 2001: Message edited by: sloany ]

[JB007]

Read "BA & Virgin in trouble" in R&N.

Mmmm, think i'll go back to work for the winter and do my CPL/IR in Spring!

[bumpfich]

Sloney,

Have you passed final board and been told there will be no course for you, or are you still going throught the selection process?

:confused:

[Capt Rommel]

Sloany

Please e-mail me at:

[email protected]

re. BA recruitment/CEP scheme suspended.

[Hugh Jampton]

Bump,

*all* recruitment, at all stages, seems to have been stopped. This includes people who have passed final board.

Hugh.

[Iain]

I have the aptitude testing coming up in a couple weeks, so I called British Airways today to find the latest and the greatest. The lady informed me that if I had not heard anything/do not hear anything it is still on. Well I have yet to hear anything, however I would not be surprised if I do.

[Tosh McCaber]

Does this mean that those already in flying training courses have been suspended as well?

[Ralph Wiggum]

Ahhh... I wondered when this news might break.. perhaps it would be a good idea to try and put some rumours to bed and spill out some facts.

As you will all know, BA has announced 1800 job cuts. A portion of these will have to be made from the Flight Operations Dept. Along with the tragic occurrences in the United States on Tuesday, recruitment has come under serious review at the highest level.

Some prudent decisions have thus been made to try and pre-empt any further market downturn. It is expected that all airlines will have a rough ride over the next 2-3 years and so the decisions within the company are:

to suspend DEP recruitment to the shorthaul fleets.

to suspend all further CEP courses until next Spring at the earliest. Those who have already commenced training at an FTO are UNAFFECTED, those in the hold pool will remain there until further notice.

to continue looking for a small number of DEP captains for the ATR fleet at LGW.

So there's the news.. hope this helps.

May my thoughts and prayers lie with those affected across the globe by Tuesday's tragedies.

[ 14 September 2001: Message edited by: Ralph Wiggum ]

[bumpfich]

AMS - My thoughts exactly. By next spring I'll be too old (well for BA anyway). I have my aptitudes (with BA) in a couple of days. No news on them being cancelled (which I can only assume is good news).
:confused:

[Busta Level]

AMS,

What you describe happened to me during the end of the last 'downturn'. By the time BA were *thinking* of re-starting I was 1 month (yes - 1 month) over the age limit, even though I was only hours away from my CPL/IR at the time. Got a rather heartless - 'you're over the age limit' reply.

They really can be heartless Ba*tards at times :(

[Monkey See Monkey Do]

Well, guys.
It doesnt sound all that great, does it.

I think BA is going to suspend training, it would make sound economic sense to me (I have no business training mind you) but thats my opinion anyway.

MSMD (formerly Ez)

[Mister Geezer]

I have to admit that I am not that surprised that BA have taken this action. We can cope with one airline or a couple that have frozen recruitment however I hope this is not a sign of the way recruitment will stand for the near future with other airlines.

Trans-atlantic markets have been hit hard across the board during recent times and BA obviously don't expect things to get any better due to the sad events on Tuesday. Since the UK-America market is the biggest for BA then any fluctuation in the performance in that area will affect the over all performance of the company.

Hopefully other airlines will not follow BA or those of us coming through the training system will be in for a difficult time.

MG

[Mr Tickle]

BALLS!! :( :(

Oh well on the bright side the application form can wait and I can go to the pub instead!! :D

[Crowe]

EICD

I'm booked for the tests at the start of October and haven't heard anything...

[ 15 September 2001: Message edited by: Crowe ]

[glenleitch]

First post, terrible time to be doing so.

Sloany, from reading your recent posts I'm in the same position as you but not had the call yet. Can you shed any further light on what you were told? Are you now in an the holding pool for an indefinite period?

Just from looking at the share price & the analyst reaction so far BA does not look to have too rosey a future.

[bumpfich]

Slonay,

You don't say what part of the recruitment you were at. From your message it appears that you had a course start date? What else did BA say? Are you in a hold pool maybe? Did they say they'd call you in 6 months?

I've not had a phone call - have apptitudes on Monday (19th) :eek: . Hope I don't turn up only to be turned away at the door :(

If I find anything further out on Monday, I'll let you all know.

[Magnus Picus]

Ladies and Gentlemen, allow me to explain my experiences as a Cadet Entry Pilot in 1991.

Let me begin by stating that I am in no position to explain BA's policy regarding recruitment right now, but what I can do is explain what happened to me and 400 of my colleagues in 1991.

I was attending Oxford Air Training School in 1990-91 when the Gulf War broke. Within weeks of the commencement of 'Desert Strike', all Cadets in training were told that recruitment had stopped. We were (by virtue of a contractual arrangement with O.A.T.S. and similarly at Prestwick) allowed to continue to the completion of our course.

From around February 1991 to when the last courses finished in early 1992, around 400 sponsored pilots left their training schools to the prospect of what BA described as "an indeterminate freeze on all new entry positions within BA".

Many Cadets were, after a few months, offered positions in BA as Cabin Crew and some used their previous qualifications to seek work in other industries. Very very few managed to find positions to exploit their spanking new CPL/IR licences.

Here is the ominous news......

It took BA a few months short of 4 years before they recommenced employing Cadet Entry pilots again. Most had lapsed on their licences and felt somewhat Ab Initio all over again. Thankfully, BA were aware of this and average sector totals before being released on to the line were around 60 flights rather than the previous average of 40. We were still re-learning 6 months on and it was a distinct shock to most shorthaul Captains for most of 1995/96.

My advice to anyone who is ON a course is
If BA keep the course going but with no employment offered at the end, do not hesitate to work ANYWHERE in the world to keep your licence going, jobs will be few and far between.
Do not take it personally. BA have made this decision to ensure there is a business to work for in a few years time.
If you have other qualifications to fall back on then do not say you have a Pilots Licence on your CV. Say that you have been 'travelling' and apply for work that can provide something commensurate to your degree/A level qualification. Employers will look upon you as someone who will flee to pastures new (ie.A Flying Job) when the industry turns around if you include the letters ATPL in your Curriculum Vitae
Set up a committee that includes ALL of you, so that you will not feel alienated from BA. There are many pilots here at BA who will keep you in the loop if you ask...


Good Luck and if you have any questions, see my E-Mail address in my 'Profile'. (BA cadets only please)

[aviatter]

Hi everyone,

This is my first post on this message board although I have followed it for over a year now.
I hate to sound pessimistic people but not only has the CEP recruiting program been suspended at BA, current pilots will be lucky to keep their jobs. This is huge! The impact of tuesdays events will be felt for months and years to come.

I was scheduled to start the CEP right away and have been told the course has been suspended until further notice. Knowing what Tuesdays events will do to the aviation industry, I am almost sure the course and the entire CEP program will not resume for many months, maybe years. BA must protect its business and will do so by downsizing in a big way.

Although I am devastated by the realization that my future with BA might be done(I still do have some hope left), my feelings are massively overshadowed by the thousands of deaths that have occured. My heart is with those who have lost loved ones in this tragic and horrific event.

Here's hoping thousands more innocent lives aren't lost in the US retaliation.

aviatter :(

[Hugh Jampton]

I agree.

Bad as this is for the whole industry, it's a lot worse for those who were in the towers, planes, and their families.

New jobs will come. :rolleyes:

[Mister Geezer]

Magnus Picus

Are you along with your colleagues expecting current courses to undergo the same problems that you went?

Is it a thought or is it really reality?

MG

[Winkiepinkie]

Wise words Magnus Picus. And Thanks.

[EFATO]

Recruitment can stop very quickly. In 1990 I was within 2 months of leaving the RAF and looking forward to a career with BA having passed all the interviews/sim rides and been offered a provisional position with BA when recruitment stopped dead. I was placed in the holding pool but heard nothing. Fortunately I also had an ATPL(H) and was soon working on the N Sea but recruitment here stopped 12mnths later and didn't restart for about 5yrs so beware the pilot shortage can end overnight.
Best of luck to you all.

[Jimbo2002]

Re: BA DEP recruitment

Has anybody else handed in their notice with their present employer for a forthcoming (Oct/Nov) confirmed long haul course start date with BA ?

If so have you heard anything or do you know what is going to happen ?

If so please drop me a line at [email protected]

[BigAir]

I've not posted for a while, but one thought is that as previously said BA are shedding a lot of Jobs currently. If you couple that with the fact that their share price has dropped by nearly 50% since last week, then it is my guess that BA will be cutting all sorts of corners to save money and keep their business going. I think last weeks tragedies, whilst not helping the situation probably wouldn't have lead to such a decission being made so quickly - as no one knows what effects on the world economy and air travel those acts will have caused.

BigAir

[WAIF-er]

I know what has happened this week will have a big impact in the short term, but we must all look to the long term future of aviation. BA, no matter what the situation is today or the next day, will need a steady recruitment of new guys & girls just to maintain their current numbers of pilots. This years' trend may be downwards, but I believe that the general trend for aviation recruitment will still be upwards.


On another note, as saddened as I am about Tuesdays events, I think that the general mood in here is far too negative and Nostradamus-like. Sooner or later, people will have to put this tragedy behind them - life goes on.

Condolences to all affected.

[sloany]

I have just read in the paper that BA are now valued lower than Ryan Air! This is only a temporary situation due to the downturn in Economic conditions and the tragic events in America. They have also said that there is a recruitment freeze, we all know about that which isn't really surprising.

Guys it does not look good - Bump I was due to start in November but fortunately I have not handed any notices in at my work or flat so I can keep plodding on until the news comes through that the courses start again.
Oscar - send me an-email [email protected] to chat.

The worry I currently have which was re-iterated by Magnus Picus, is when the courses does resume what happens at when we get the frozen ATPL? will we go into holding pools for years? Also another worry is we have declared that we are at 'war' with terrorists, only time will tell what this will lead to.....

Good luck to everyone over the next few months and lets hope that things soon improve.

Sloany

[topunicyclist]

Just had a phone call this afternoon saying that my BA Final Board for Wednesday 19th is now not on........

.......I think they decided to suspend recruitment today as I phoned this morning and was informed that everything was still going ahead (regarding my application process).

Anyone else supposed to have been going to FB this week or next and who has any further info.? (I couldn't ask too many questions on the phone as I work in an open plan office).

[JT8]

I spoke to BA late this afternoon, and was told that they had just decided to freeze all recruitment no matter which phase you are at.

So much for my aptitudes :( :(

oh well, lets keep our chins up and our dreams alive. We'll get there.

JT8

[ 17 September 2001: Message edited by: JT8 ]

[funkster]

Did my aptitudes two weeks ago and got a letter saturday saying send in the pre-medical. So just phoned BA and spoke with a very abrupt woman. Asked about whether my final board was going ahead and she said she couldn't possible tell me as they had all just been told they'd lost their jobs. I think I can work the rest out for myself!

I will still send in the pre-medical but won't hold my breath!
Thing is I applied just before turning 27 so cannot reapply as will be too old, gutted!!

[Iain]

I spoke to them this morning and a kind lady informed me that I had been frozen and I would not have my aptitude test next week!
Time to go to the pub!

[Bowser]

I believe that anyone that has a simulator or medical booked for the DEP is being told to don their arm bands for some considerable time ! i.e. in the holding pool !

Not sure what will happen to anyone that has started their ground school though or anyone who has been given a confirmed contract.

Let's all just hope that the government helps all UK airlines financially, which may soften the blow a little.

[Pontius]

Well Boys and Girls, it ain't good. I've held back until I could consult my oracle and get the down and dirty. This is what's going on. No speculation and no rumour.

All pilot assessment, DEP and TEP, is cancelled with effect from 19 Sept. The 18th will go ahead but after that....zip.

All TEP courses are cancelled. Those currently going through training will finish their course with the caviat of jobs at the end IF required by BA.

The 2 TEP courses that were due to start very soon are cancelled and those people that were going to be on those courses will be held in the 'TEP Pool'. There will be no-one else joining the pool. ie if you've passed selection but weren't given a course you will not be held in that pool. There may (and that's a HUGE may) be a tiny puddle of people that have passed everything but didn't get offered a course. These could possibly be top of the list when recruitment starts again...but don't hold your breath. Most people will probably be too old by then!

There will be no more offers of employment to DEPs. Those offers which have already been made will be honoured but that, again, will be subject to the requirements of Flt Ops. So if they're grounding the Classics and reducing the flying program then it sounds like there will not be a requirement for those numbers (that last bit was my speculation and not strictly fact). I reckon I'd withdraw my resignation if I was working for one of the IT flyers.

A small DEP pool will be formed from those who have passed everything, but it will be small (as TEP). Looking at about 20 people.

It's absolutely amazing how in just 2 short weeks it has all changed. The DEP stuff was already going to be reduced and the TEP courses lessened, before last Tuesday, but this has really put le chat amongst the pigeons. I'm afraid at BA now the wagons are being cirled and everyone is going to working hard to keep the company going, let alone expanding. I hope for all potential BA pilots this thing is short but I reckon it will be a couple of years at least.

In the lives that go on after the New York disaster, those idiotic madmen have a lot to answer for.

Pontius

Not at all happy :(

[jetgirl]

I passed my DEP sim last Thurs. How many more are in this same situation??? ie passed selection but no job.

[Lucifer]

AMS: this will take at least a couple of years in my opinion. BA are in the deep, brown stuff, and they were deeply in it prior to Tuesday.

[abc001]

I spoke to BA yesterday and was told that they had decided to stop all recruitments. They did not know also when they start again DEP/CEP assessments.

[no sponsor]

The problem with forecasting the length of time, or the way out of the current crisis within the industry, is that no-one has a measure of something similar in the past to gauge this all against. I do believe the crisis is far more serious than the Gulf war. This will directly impact the transatlantic routes due to the fear of flying, and coupled with a continued economic downturn. BA gets 40% of turnover from these routes, and they account for 140% of its profits.

I do not see how the government will see it has a duty to bail out BA and Virgin. If they do that, then all airlines will queue up for money. The argument from the Gov will be along the lines of market forces, and exposure - if this was true Labour it could have been different. The government did nothing for the manafacturing industry, why will it do it for the airline industry? Even the US is being very cautious on giving any commitment to their airline industry.

We can can all anticipate that between 2-5 years could be the potential for death of recruitment within BA.

I have a feeling that BA will use the episode to completely restructure itself, and this I'm sure will have a continued impact on recruitment.

[Hugh Jampton]

With regards to "will the UK govt help out BA?"


Have the airlines asked for government help?
US airline executives are seeking $24bn in assistance, including $5bn in direct aid. President George Bush has been sympathetic to these requests. The US airline industry accounts for about 10% of US gross domestic product, according to United Airlines. BA says it too should receive government help if Washington steps in to bail out its American rivals, and the Swiss and French governments are also considering helping their carriers.

From: Guardian Unlimited, 19th Sept.

More info at:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/Archive/Article/0,4273,4260575,00.html

Regards,

Hugh