GATCO Membership

[Spamcan defender]

Hi folks, just interested to see how many UK (civil & Mil) controllers on here are members of GATCO? Just a straw poll really....
and if you're not, an quick explanation of why not would be appreciated.

Spamcan

[Andy Mayes]

I'm a member.

Something which often gets forgotten is the fact that tax relief is available on GATCO subscription fees although its only £7.00 a month without the tax relief so not much in the first place!

[2 sheds]

Spamcan

You first, then!

2 s

[Not Long Now]

No. Why would I be?

[HEATHROW DIRECTOR]

Been a member since 1967.

[The Many Tentacles]

Not a member, offers me nothing that my union membership doesn't as far as I'm aware.

Plus it was shoved down our throat at the college by one of the instructors who was/is big in GATCO. Put the backs of a lot of us up at the time, I think our course was a record in the number of people who didn't join GATCO.

Plus I can always read their magazine when someone else leaves it at work

[Glamdring]

I think everyone on our course joined. After it was shoved down our throat by probably the same instructor mentioned above ;)

[Brian 48nav]

Thought about it recently and looked at their website and there didn't appear to be a retired rate. I certainly can't afford £84 a year; I've even let my Arsenal membership lapse!:(:(

[spekesoftly]

.........looked at their website and there didn't appear to be a retired rate. I certainly can't afford £84 a year ...............

GATCO retired membership is £24 a year. Subscription rates are shown on the application form that you can download from their website.

[chevvron]

I pay £60pa as I'm classed as 'Retired-operational' albeit only as a FISO.
I also pay £33pa Arsenal Membership; could never afford a season ticket even if it was offered.

[Spamcan defender]

Firstly, yes...im a member..

Not a member, offers me nothing that my union membership doesn't as far as I'm aware.

Plus it was shoved down our throat at the college by one of the instructors who was/is big in GATCO. Put the backs of a lot of us up at the time, I think our course was a record in the number of people who didn't join GATCO.

Plus I can always read their magazine when someone else leaves it at work

Couple of things there...
Firstly its a shame that you have been misinformed/not informed of the, rather substantial, differences between Prospect and GATCO. Prospect is NOT a body solely devoted to you as an ATCO or your profession, it represents MANY different professions and ATCOS dont take any priority. It has negotiating rights (with NATS) for talks regarding pay and conditions. GATCO is a professional body which, not only provides professional legal cover and representation to its members, but does a great many things the union does not do.
It has representatives on a myriad of different european and international bodies and is a platform for ATCOS to be heard internationally. The union does not provide this as its not their remit.
Bottom line is union is NOT ATC specific and provides a basic service (LOL) to you. GATCO is something entirely different. There is also a social side to the organisation which, I dont believe, the union has either.
Oh, one more thing which has been mentioned before....you can claim tax relief on your subs as GATCO is a recognised professional body which you cant do with union subs.

Spamcan

[Brian 48nav]

Thanks, I'll have a better look!

TC, I was a Red Member on £33/yr and when this years renewal came through it had gone up to £55, when I asked why, the reply was I'd got to the top of the list and been upgraded to Silver - it gives no other benefit than more priority to buy tickets. I said I wanted to remain a Red Member as there is no way I'm going to go all the way to London to see a game - seemed to stump them a bit! I managed to see every game on the laptop last season courtesy of flashsportstreams!

[Irrilius]

Yep, i know exactly which instructor you're talking about - not a member either for the same reason!

[ZOOKER]

Been a member since September 1979. Been on some great 'Guild trips' way back through the NW Region. :ok:

[obwan]

Yahoo
Whatever you think of the "prats" in the union if you are employed by NATS all the benefits and terms and conditions of employment that you currently enjoy and take for granted have been obtained by hard working UNPAID union representatives negotiated over decades. Do you seriously think that if there was no trade union representation and you had to negotiate terms on an individual basis you would be anywhere near the salary and in particular the pension benefits you currently enjoy. You used the word prat in your post, having read one or two of your posts I would suggest you need look no further than a mirror to see the biggest prat on this forum.:ugh:

[Euroc5175]

I joined the Guild a number of years ago and was an active member on the policy front. I was fortunate enough to represent the UK on one of the IFATCA committees. On this committee I was tasked to write a couple of technical papers each year. As I sat on the committee for 7 years I was involved in a diverse range of topics and really got to broaden out my knowledge of ATC / ATM. I have no doubt that the knowledge that I gained whilst 'working' for GATCO / IFATCA has benefitted me in my day job and I still call upon knowledge acquired in my time with the Guild from time to time today.
I also got to visit many differing parts of the globe, made a number of good friendships and even presented before a Parliamentary sub-committee.
You can really benefit from Guild membership and the more you put in, the more you will get out. :ok:

[Spitoon]

Interesting comments from Euro. Many years ago - 20 years or so - I looked at what the Guild did and the way it presented itself. Particularly on technical topics it appeared to be anything but professional and seemed to be a mouthpiece for a small number of self-opinionated and self-appointed individuals.

Rather than just complaining as some of my colleagues did, I got in touch with the local committee and offered to get involved. I was 'interviewed' by a couple of the regular names that I saw in the magazine who were pleased to welcome me into the fold. They told me about all the events that were on the calendar and the drinking and golfing plans they had...and the international gatherings where they had to go to keep up-to-date . And because 'we' would be committee members, the vast majority of it all would be paid by the Guild. A few questions about other work done by the Guild were met with an almost total lack of interest.

My mind may be playing a few tricks with my memory of our meeting, and I'm sure that there were some good bits, but my overriding recollection is of a couple of people who were primarily using the Guild as means of low-cost partying. I've really no idea if they were representative of those involved in the organisation at the time but I was disappointed enough to cancel my membership after this experience.

[Vercingetorix]

obwan
One benefit of the Union was that the negotiators always managed to get promoted to the higher ranks of the ATCO system!
As to pay rises they always seemed to have an ability to talk down the going rate.
I agree with what Euroc5175 says. :cool:

[ToweringCu]

Not a member. The union is the only organisation that can negotiate with my employers. Better things to spend my money on.

[chevvron]

I was fervently anti union until I got victimised by management. I joined straight away and haven't found the need to use the 'protection' of the union since I joined!!

[SID East]

Don't forget the military ATCOs are unable to join a union and it is certainly the case that GATCO offers some great benefits and professional backing that most mil ATCOs (and Fighter Controllers) are glad to have in their back pocket. I think that GATCO must therefore be the only ATCOs organisation that truly represents ATC UK-wide.

Also, I have done some work alongside GATCO in the past by way of promoting flight safety and education amongst the GA community. They were thoroughly supportive of the aims and lent their weight to the events.

I've been a member of other professional bodies in both Science and Management; GATCO is run on a voluntary basis by ATCOs for ATCOs and gives me much more for my money.

SID:ok:

[Andy Mayes]

Was I dreaming or did GATCO fight for a Military ATCO many years ago who had been (wrongly) blamed for an accident which led to the death of a flight crew (possibly in Scotland) but, GATCO got involved in some way, shape or form which led to the ATCO being cleared of all wrong doing.

As I say, I may have dreamt all this but I'm fairy certain someone at the college (ex-mil) told me the story.

Anyone know if it is true or not?

[Spamcan defender]

You are correct. GATCO assisted a military member known as 'spot' (IIRC!). It was in connection with a fatal CFIT incident involving 2 USAF F-15's (again, if the grey matter serves me correctly).
There was a huge thread on here at the time. GATCO provided support to the individual and I believe this was hugely appreciated.

Edit:- found one of the threads here (http://www.pprune.org/atc-issues/61388-f15-court-martial-merged-thread.html)

Spamcan

[Spamcan defender]

It seems to be a common perception that GATCO is trying to compete with the union. The way I see it, and Ive stated this in the last page, is that prospect will negotiate T's and C's and provide some legal representation. They do not have any remit to promote the professional aspects of being an ATCO.
GATCO is a completely different entity and exists to directly represent and promote the Air Traffic profession in the UK.

Spamcan

[Andy Mayes]

Spamcan defender, would you be the guy from Swanwick in the latest "Readability 5" who is now in charge of recruiting new members, can't remember the name, should have kept the magazine!

Just wondering!

:E

[chevvron]

GATCO members sit on various CAA Working groups as well as IFATCA Committees, the UK Operations Working Group and the UK Phraseology Working Group are two, plus CHIRP have a nominated GATCO member to consult on ATC matters.

[Spamcan defender]

Spitoon - Without a doubt, the old guard of GATCO did manage to do some damage with it's PR amongst certain quarters. It did, im sure, appear to be an old gentleman's club with its own secret handshake :). There is a totally different set of personalities at the forefront now.... down to earth, engaging, and most are valid ATCOs in it for no other reason than to represent the controller's interests and be a voice.

I know a few of the guys actually doing the work at my unit and theres no hint of 'old boys club' about them at all!! Even bumped into Steve Brindley (the current President, I believe?) at Swanwick and he seems like a really decent bloke.

Posted this thread up for no other reason than to see why folks wouldn't be members....The catalyst was the other month when I had union mag and GATCO mag arrive within days of each other. 1 went straight in the bin, the other was read (and enjoyed!). I get that not everyones interested but after seeking out and talking to my unit rep, I was really struck by what the Guild ACTUALLY does and how they influence policy in Europe etc


Kind of made me proud to be a member TBH...



Spamcan

[eastern wiseguy]

the old guard of GATCO did manage to do some damage with it's PR amongst certain quarters. It did, im sure, appear to be an old gentleman's club with its own secret handshake

Precisely the reason I refused to join.

Never really fancied it back in '85. They sounded like a bunch of pompous asses....things may well have changed,but back in the day...no thanks.

[Spitoon]

Spamcan, I offered my experience simply as an explanation for voting no, and because you asked an interesting question which I thought deserved a bit more detail.

I tried to be fair - and I recognise that things can change a lot in 20 years. I've seen suggestions that the Guild is involved in contributing professionally these days but, if I'm honest, I saw little evidence of this when I mixed is such circles a few years ago. It's a shame really because, although I try to stay open-minded, my earlier experience still comes to mind after all this time.

[Spamcan defender]

No, I totally understand your POV...:ok:

Its kind of hard to change initial perceptions. I was a bit ambivalent myself but a chance encounter with the local rep had me swayed firmly in favour of staying a member. I suppose the Guild has its work cut out tring to get folks like yourself to get past the perceptions of days-gone-by.

Spamcan

[GAPSTER]

One thing to be considered,if selfishly....retired member travel with GATCO.Not sure how it is these days but used to offer a fair bit more than UKATTS.

[PH-UKU]

£7 a month may seem a small amount for tax purposes but .....

You can claim back up to 5 years in arrears, so for higher rate tax payers that is 40% of £84 =(£33.60) per year - that makes £168. If anyone doesn't want £168 then please send cheques in my direction :)

[chevvron]

Not widely known is GATCOs assistance, many years ago, to a Rumanian Controller. A BA pilot contacted GATCO London Region and told them about a Rumanian ATCO who was ill with what had been diagnosed as calcification of the brain. As this was before Rumainia became part of the EU, little in the way of medical care was available, so GATCO got (I think) Turkish Airlines to fly him to London and arranged for him to see a specialist. The specialist found he had epilepsy. GATCO arranged for him to be supplied with several months worth of drugs to combat this.
While he was here, he proudly bought himself a new tie, something which was impossible for him in Rumania as it would have cost him a month's salary!

[ILS 119.5]

GATCO Guild of Air Traffic Control Officers. Question to one of the posts, why do not ATCO's take priority if the purpose of the guild is for ATCO's? I think the guild do a good job however sometimes like anything concerned with atc professionals versus the pencil grinders it's pissing into the wind.

[Seniorsup]

Been a member since 1995 initially through the RAF as full time and now since I became a FISO as an associate memebr at £5per month. Have used travel perks a couple of times. The fact that they provide legal backing is a plus, a co-controller in RAF used this facilty to his advantage many years ago - but probably wouldn't have benn able to afford it with the membership.

So yes I woould recommend joining, you can offset against income tax as membership of a professional body.

[iFucts]

Got to love the union...
Dry powder, get promoted.

[rodan]

the union

Which union, which company? And what do they have to do with GATCO?

[Nimmer]

Thinking of joining GATCO. I will be leaving the union after this latest pay and pension debacle.

Very tired of being lied to by both the union and management. The Guild will provide me with any professional help I may require in the future, and it will be nice to be a member of professional body which actually cares about the job of controlling.

Anyone else thinking of doing the same.

[whitelighter]

yep,

was chatting to my wm this morning about benefits etc

[Squawk 7500]

Member of both at the minute. Will likely drop the union after the pay and pensions debate

[roidster]

Leaving the union after this pension and pay fiasco. Tired of being lied to and paying for it monthly as well! We need stronger representation, our union have been too close to management for a long time. Joining GATCO instead.

[HEATHROW DIRECTOR]

But, as has been stated elsewhere, GATCO is not a union not is it a substitute for a union. However, I'm sure GATCO will welcome you. I've been a member for 46 years.

[roidster]

I am well aware GATCO is not a union. Since I don't feel I'm being represented by my union anyway, I may as well save a bit of money and see what GATCO membership offers.

[chevvron]

As has been said before, at least GATCO membership fees can be claimed back from HMRC; wonder why Prospect membership can't.
Several years ago, Prospect suddenly raised membership fees for those on salaries over (I think) about £35K and I worked it out as an increase of some 15% when inflation was about 3%. I'm not sure there's any point remaining a retired member of Prospect, although retired membership of GATCO still brings some benefits.

[dan saaf]

How does one go about 'claiming back' Gatco membership fees from HMRC??

I'm in the process of doing my self assessment return for 2012-13, and every penny counts!

[chevvron]

I haven't been sent the SA form for about 10 years thank goodness, but there was a section entitled something like 'necessary expenses' or 'membership of professional organisations'.

[spekesoftly]

HM Revenue & Customs: Tax relief for professional fees and subscriptions (http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/incometax/relief-subs.htm)

[Spamcan defender]

As some folks have expressed an interest in becoming members I just thought I'd point out the new GATCO website (http://gatco.org/) is now live with the appropriate membership application forms.

Spamcan

[EastofKoksy]

I left GATCO several years before leaving the UK. It appeared that most of the subscription was spent on affiliation to IFATCA and sending the same group of delegates to various IFATCA junkets (sorry I should say conferences) leaving hardly any funding left to support regional events.

[jpwelton]

GATCO has reinvigorated the regional structure over the last few years, a process that is ongoing. The Guild sends lots of people to work on IFATCA's behalf (and therefore on UK's behalf too), quite often funded by IFATCA. Any member wishing to volunteer some time to help out with either regional or IFATCA work (or any other work!) would be met with open arms! I personally view membership as very worthwhile, as a way of having input into the future of my chosen profession, as a way of keeping in touch/up to date with developments nationally and worldwide, and as an insurance policy in the event of a court-inducing incident (£250,000 worth of insurance!)

[chevvron]

I concur with jpwelton. Even though I retired from NATS several years ago, I still attend a CAA Working group on behalf of GATCO.

[2 sheds]

I still attend a CAA Working group on behalf of GATCO.
An interesting point. Why does GATCO have a representative? Does that not mean that some factions get two bites of the cherry?

2 s

[jpwelton]

Nope; the Guild represents the professional voice of atc. By two bites I guess you mean either Prospect or NATS sending a rep to the same meetings? Prospect acts from a trades union pov (though they do have a memorandum of understanding with Gatco so we consult and work with each other where we may 'overlap'). A NATS rep would be expected to push the NATS line, which as a ppp ansp may not be entirely aligned with the controllers' professional views...

[chevvron]

The group I attend has reps from NERL, NSL, SERCO and Safeskys but not Prospect.

[055166k]

Just a note of caution; ATC knowledge and expertise dates very quickly. A body consisting of well-meaning "used-to-be" controllers may not be best placed to influence modern policy and practice which exists in an environment of constant change and development. I find that the Union is the best voice for my concerns and I am disappointed with the view that the Union will back the employer's line.....this has never been my experience in 33 years membership dating back to IPCS, IPMS etc.
I respect the Guild and its members, and the work that they do....but don't knock the Union...despite the odd moan from some quarters the Union has done a good job overall in the face of difficult circumstances.

[alfaman]

A body consisting of well-meaning "used-to-be" controllers may not be best placed to influence modern policy and practice I think the poster two above you may take issue with that comment...

[ZOOKER]

055166k,
But surely 'the union' is run by managers and 'management wannabe's'?

[obwan]

Prospect does a superb job in looking after the interests of those people based at Swanwick, Heathrow and Gatwick and I wont hear a word said against their representatives.:D

[chevvron]

Agreed Prospect looks after the bigger units but it does little for the smaller units like Farnborough and Southampton.

[jpwelton]

Nobody said Prospect would back the management line. If anything, surely it's their job to oppose it? My point was that Prospect attends meetings in order to protect (and hopefully enhance!) our terms and conditions (at a very basic level.) Thier remit is not, as an 'off the top of the head' example, to ensure military controllers' views with respect to a raised harmonised european transition altitude are heard, or to look at the interaction between GA and joiners and leavers of the airways structures.
I couldn't agree more that atc is fast moving, technologically and socially (SESAR JU has a social pillar, for example). The implication that GATCO is staffed by out of date people is completely out of date. We now send mostly current operational people as our reps, drawn from units all over the country.
Both organisations do good work (and lots of it!) in difficult circumstances (I'm a member of both, and don't understand how people can't see the difference in what they try to achieve - the idea that you should have to choose which one to join is downright daft!)

[Hallucinogenix]

I've been a GATCO member since I qualified as an ATCO in the early 90s. Always appreciated the work they do but not appreciated until recently just how much they do.
I've been involved in the union too and they do great work also.

[stopbar]

Have been a member of both GATCO and Prospect. Prospect were useless in all aspects of representing the ATCO whilst I received very useful advice from GATCO on a professional employment matter. Binned Prospect Asap am still a retired GATCO member. Good guys trying to do a good job in trying circumstances FOR ATCO’s.

[250 kts]

Have been a member of both GATCO and Prospect. Prospect were useless in all aspects of representing the ATCO whilst I received very useful advice from GATCO on a professional employment matter. Binned Prospect Asap am still a retired GATCO member. Good guys trying to do a good job in trying circumstances FOR ATCO’s.
I'm sure we're all intrigued as to why you were so let down by Prospect. I believe they have a membership rate of 95%+. So they must be doing something right.

[alfaman]

I'm sure we're all intrigued as to why you were so let down by Prospect. I believe they have a membership rate of 95%+. So they must be doing something right.
Not judging the above situation, however, I know there's sometimes confusion as to which organisation delas with what. In my experience, both were fine, but both had their limitations on occasion.