How stupid can one be?

[Jan Olieslagers]

My little bird was finally repaired, and ready for taxi test and perhaps a first modest hop.
After all, the nosewheel steering had not been fine adjusted, and worse: the prop setting had only been tested statically.
So I went to the airfield in high spirits, only to find myself unable to start the engine. Got a couple of friends to help, tried this, tried that, battery jump cables from my van, nothing would help: no sparks to be seen in the plugs.
Left the craft for a week, the battery sucking from a lent charger.
Yesterday: exact same phenomena. More friends came in, more twiddling with the electricity, still to no avail. Called in the local guru, still more twiddling. No good.
Finally someone observed that the throttle was wide open, where it should be fully closed for starting a cold 912.
Blushed, closed the throttle, pulled choke, magneto's on, shouted everybody off, turned the key, and VROOOOMMM it went!
There's an awful lot of people that I now owe one!
Anyone ever been more stupid than that?

PS: I did taxi round the field, but there was too much wind and too gusty too for even the slightest hop. Only some brave glider pilots took to the skies.

[mad_jock]

I know someone who after a 300km drive discovered they didn't have the keys.

[NazgulAir]

Oh the key thing... I go for a full dress-up only reluctantly but this time we were going to the Hamptons so there I was, decked out in appropriate summer wear, only to find that the keys were in my jeans pocket of course.
Fashion victim! I still hear my fellow travelers howling with laughter.

If I didn't have my head screwed on I'd have forgotten it at one time or other. Like my passport, money, glasses, license, papers I'm supposed to bring, bank card when I'm standing before the cash machine, you name it.

[patowalker]

Anyone ever been more stupid than that?Not more stupid, but exactly the same level of stupidity, on the initial start-up of a homebuilt.

And I have had to ask my wife to meet me with the keys half-way to the airfield, twice. :O

[Pace]

Jan

We can all be strupid if that is the right word;)

Hence why its so important to use check lists and walkarounds

Pace

[pulse1]

Good article in the latest LAA magazine about the importance of doing checks EVERY time before starting the engine. Just think what might have happened if the engine had started with the throttle wide open.:eek:

[peterh337]

Absolutely keep the aircraft keys on the car key keyring :)

[The500man]

Or leave them in the aeroplane preferably tied on with a bit of string! :ok:

[Sir George Cayley]

Or buy a plane without the need for a key.

SGC

[patowalker]

Hence why its so important to use check lists and walkaroundsNot much use if the list says "throttle to idle" and you firmly believe you have set it to idle. :O

Just think what might have happened if the engine had started with the throttle wide open.http://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:www.pprune.org/get/images/smilies/eek.gif

The Rotax is designed to only start at idle.

[Pilot DAR]

Yeah, enthusiasm can add a layer of stupid to any of us. I can't count how many times I've tried to start a plane with the mixture at ICO. The last, and most memorable time, was in Reykjavik, getting a checkout in a rental C172. There was no checklist in the plane, and for a C172, I really should not need one!

When the check pilot put in the mixture to help with my third start attempt (and to save his battery), he asked me: "you are a pilot arn't you?". He was serious, I had only told him I was, I had not proven it yet. "Yes", I humbly said, "and with 6200 hours, you'd think I could start a C172 from memory!". Everything went fine after that...

Now, every time I fly, I assure a 10 second stop and sanity check, at least once before takeoff - I think I have done everything, but am I sure? Am I rushing too much? It's quite illuminating what I find I have missed!

[Jan Olieslagers]

Just think what might have happened if the engine had started with the throttle wide open.
The Rotax is designed to only start at idle.

Yes, and that design usually works. Even likes choke applied, unless thoroughly warmed up. I was taught about it exhaustively - the rule should apply to most carburetted engines. With wide open throttle, a starting engine cannot develop sufficient airspeed in the venturi.

But had a can of aether ("Start-Pilote" or such) been around, I might have been severely tempted - and the results might indeed have been disastrous. But be assured: the plane was heading to the open, nobody in front of it, brakes applied, and my other hand ready to cut the magneto's. I am not a permanent idiot, not yet at least.

I am now finding an acronym ("to start - pull all" or such) to help remember the right direction of the throttle.

@DAR: the 10-second habit seems a good idea, thanks!

[Capot]

Not much use if the list says "throttle to idle" and you firmly believe you have set it to idle.

Anyone who does a check list on the basis of what he/she believes rather than what he/she sees or touches is in for a very rude awakening. Let's hope it's not fatal.

[BackPacker]

Now, every time I fly, I assure a 10 second stop and sanity check, at least once before takeoff - I think I have done everything, but am I sure?

I call this the "idiots check" and do it every now and then during my flying (and in other areas of life, particularly when things get complicated) every now and then.

Basically I'm saying to myself: "I think I am doing something stupid right now. Let's take some time and figure out what."

Usually I'll find nothing wrong, but every now and then I do find something wrong, which I would not have caught otherwise.

[patowalker]

Anyone who does a check list on the basis of what he/she believes rather than what he/she sees or touches is in for a very rude awakening.

I not only saw, I pushed to make sure is was fully in, and therefore closed. Just to make sure it didn't start at full throttle.

PS. I never claimed to be very bright.

[172_driver]

I know a guy, one early morning did his pre-flight inspection, pulled the plane out, about to turn the key, only to realize the propeller was missing!

Tried to start a BE76 just after my checkride in the very same plane. It wouldn't go. A friend yelled to me - Mixture! That made the trick. Examiner was watching the show.

Another time flew a C182 for two hours to pick up some acquaintance for further transportation. 10 min from landing was informed by ATC that the runway was closed re-painting. Due to open some 8 hours later. Ooops…missed that little NOTAM.

So easy to make a fool out of yourself in this business :)

[Ultra long hauler]

I removed the "Remove before Flight" off of both pitot tubes; but while taxiing to the runway my non-pilot passenger said: "is that yellow rubber supposed to be on that pipe"?

Oops, the inner tube (a piece of hose) of the pitot cover was stuck on the pitot tube; and it took a complete novice to catch me out!
Well done to the girl!

Oh yes, and why would my beast cruise so slow?
Because it helps if your get the flaps up after T.O!!
Nothing like it to give your ego a blow at the beginning of a long day of flying.


###Ultra Long Hauler###

[maxred]

Picked it up from maintenance, completed all my thorough checks, would not start. Completed ALL checks again, still would not start. Called the engineer - plane wont start. Fine lot you are, confirming all my suspicions that the maintenance co were a bunch of overcharging cowboys.

Engineer walks over from hanger, looks in, and asks me to switch the fuel on. Try it he says, might start then.

I sat there:\

Also the keys, 100 mile round car trip with wife and kids. I naturally blamed her:uhoh:

[rans6andrew]

Quote "The Rotax is designed to only start at idle. "

That is complete rubbish, I have seen one start at full throttle and heard about another (which wrote off a brand new flexwing aircraft and nearly destroyed a portacabin).

The carb fitted to the 912 engines is designed so that "the choke only works when the throttle is set to idle". If the engine is warm and the float chambers are full it will start at any throttle setting. It always surprises me how long the engine stays "warm" for. I find that it happily starts without choke for several hours after stopping. Very rarely use the choke more than once on any day.

Rans6.....

[mad_jock]

Anyway nobody has managed to match that flight instructor that managed to takeoff with the tie downs still attached to the aircraft.

[Ultranomad]

mad_jock, this is apparently rather frequent. A receng GASCo Flight Safety mag has a photo of a hole in someone's garden made by a lump of concrete coming off an aircraft.

[peterh337]

Loads of people have either taxied or taken off with concrete lumps tied on.

Somebody did it where I am based, I gather.

Shows how useless those tiedowns are.

hole in someone's garden made by a lump of concrete coming off an aircraft.

No, that was probably the concrete they have to put in the back of a Bonanza to keep the W&B legal with just 2 people in the front :E (or maybe some other type :) ).

[Crash one]

It is scary the number of times Iv'e heard "It's designed not to do that so don't worry".
I tried for 40 odd years to make things idiot proof & discovered that idiots are very clever people. I am one of them!
I've managed to go round the circuit twice with the pitot cover on, even with a flag on it. I've also discovered it will take off (just) with full (drag)flaps down & the trim lever fully aft.

[Ultranomad]

Evgeny Savitsky, a WWII ace, Field Marshal in Soviet Air Force, wrote in his memoirs that in 1944 he (then in the rank of Major General) had to fly an urgent night mission in a Polikarpov Po-2 (a two-seat wooden trainer/liaison/light bomber aircraft). The flight was fairly uneventful, except that the aeroplane felt very tail-heavy. As it turned out, he took off, flew and landed with a weight (an almost man-sized old gas cylinder) hanging off the tailwheel on a 3-metre cable.

[Pilot DAR]

Yeah, I got a Cessna 180 airborne with the pitot cover on once. Problem was, it was a float plane. Although I could land in the next lake no problem, it is very difficult to reach the pitot cover while standing on the float. I did manage to reach, without falling in the lake...

[India Four Two]

I took off in a Scout with a heavy two-seat glider in tow and was very concerned about the lack of climb performance, which is already bad enough at a 5000' density altitude. Checked everything - RPM, mixture, mags, fuel, primer. Everything EXCEPT the carb heat (by my elbow). Near the end of the tow, I noticed it was in Hot!

I talked to the glider pilot afterwards and he said he was worried - he saw a lot of black smoke and was expecting a wave-off at any moment.

[BroCode]

Recently a student at a flightschool nearby dropped his checklist while holding short behind another SEP and bent down to pick it up releasing the pressure on the brakes and running into the back of the aircraft in front. Realising what happened and that he should probably shutdown the student then turns the checklist pages and goes through the engine shut down checklist even completing the mag check:ugh:

[Miken100]

Hmmm.... This interesting thread (thanks Jan!) has three things going on...

1/ Not doing a walkround, or not doing it properly... it's making me think how casual could this vital thing have become... personally I try to walkround every time as if the examiner is looking over my shoulder on the day of my flight test... focuses the mind on the job in hand.

2/ Much more difficult is it can be really 'embedded' psychologically - pushing when you should pull and actions of that ilk (eg throttle actions when changing from one type to another and back) - light aircraft ergonomics are probably not top of the design list so I guess being really sure or reminding oneself before you fly about what key controls actually do?

3/ In the last post... what happens in the 'panic' situation (e.g. the student who went through checks before shutting down in an emergency).. do we do enough emergency training and refresher... so that our mind does not 'freeze' at a critical moment.

I like threads like this... they really make me think!

Mike

[patowalker]

The carb fitted to the 912 engines is designed so that "the choke only works when the throttle is set to idle". If the engine is warm and the float chambers are full it will start at any throttle setting.

I should have known. The CAA Head of GA Inspectorate proved it, spilling blood in the process.