Dana Air Passenger plane 'crashes into building in Lagos'

[CentreOfExcellence]

As reported by BBC (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-18316130)

Terrible news.

[J'Mac]

Plane crash in the of Lagos state. NigerianEye: BREAKING NEWS: Plane Crash in Iju-Ishaga, Lagos, 153 people feared dead (http://www.nigerianeye.com/2012/06/breaking-news-plane-crash-in-iju-lagos.html).

[LNAV737]

150 passengers and crew were killed :ouch: from Abuja to Lagos MD83 crashed just a few miles from Lagos Int Airport.The aircraft crashed in two story building.Damn.:(

[AdamCG]

Police said they had recovered the plane's voice recorder. Al Jazeera reported from Abuja that witnesses said the the plane may have hit a power line in clear and sunny weather.

via

World News - 153 people feared dead in Nigerian plane crash (http://worldnews.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2012/06/03/12034499-153-people-feared-dead-in-nigerian-plane-crash?lite)

[aimtofly]

Heard them on the radio reporting issues with hydraulics n asking for a longer runway. Captain was American FO was Indian and engineer that released the aircraft was Indonesian. 163 dead n counting.....

[Sammajoor]

Engines failed before Nigeria air crash | News24 (http://www.news24.com/Africa/News/Engines-failed-before-Nigeria-air-crash-20120604)

[blablabla]

I`ll never understand why Dana in all their Local Nigerian adverts for their flights and routing etc used pics of a B737-NG in Dana Livery. Their website also has a big pic of a B737-NG presented on their homepage and all other pages.

DANA AIRLINES (http://flydanaair.com/media_center.aspx)

They have never owned/operated B737-NG so why would you do that unless you intended to try and mislead people into making bookings thinking the aircraft pictured in the adverts or website would be the variants Dana owned/operated and which you`d be traveling on. This shows they were openly trying to hide the fact they operate aging aircraft and dont want to advertise pics of the actual fleet/variant they fly.
There is no other airline in the world who pictures in such a pronounced fashion as boldly as Dana do pics of aircraft in their Livery they dont own or operate.
Very strange.

[Rani]

Indeed, they've been using the 737NG image since 2008, and surely for marketing purposes as you said. However it wouldn't surprise me if the 737NG plan was called for in the Business Plan but since the financial turmoil started in 2008 they ditched the plan and chose to keep the image, again for marketing and promotion purposes.

In any case, it is deceitful, unprofessional, and atypical for any civilized company.

To add insult to injury, they've been sporting around the photo at the Dana Crash press release hall.....Right behind the crying Jacky Hitharamani :uhoh:

[ediks]

Since the accident it has become fashionable to complain about ageing airplanes.
Delta still fly their DC9's and they aren't falling out of the skies
AeroTransport Data Bank (http://www.aerotransport.org/php/go.php?query=airframes&where=ifnull%28t.marketing%2Ct.type_id%29%3D3238159+and+t.pa rent%3D3238004+and+%28r.to_flag+in+%28%27for%27%2C%27for%3F% 27%2C%27flt%27%2C%27flt%3F%27%2C%27lst%27%2C%27lst%3F%27%2C% 27tbr%27%2C%27opf%27%2C%27cnf%27%29+%0A%09%09or+%28r.to_flag +is+null+and+ifnull%28r.ex_flag%2C%27%24%27%29+not+in+%28%27 lsf%27%2C%27lsd%27%2C%27lff%27%2C%27lfb%27%2C%27nnb%27%29+%2 9%29+%0A%09%09and+ifnull%28r.unused_flag%2C%27%24%27%29+not+ in+%28%27ntu%27%2C%27ntu%3F%27%29+and+ifnull%28r.ex_flag%2C% 27%24%27%29%3C%3E%27nnb%27+%0A%09%09and+%28r.to_airport+is+n ull+or+r.to_flag%3D%27cnf%27%29%0A%09%09&qstring=DC-9-50&info=active+DC-9-50&orderby=6)

[dash200]

At least Hathiramani hasn't tried to run away.
As Vicar of Bray pointed out in the Air Nigeria pilots' thread, in this country, money talks: if he chose to run, his multi-billion Naira investments would be safe, no question.
On the other hand, that he hasn't may indicate faith that big shots are beyond the law in Nigeria, at least in the vast majority of cases.
I'm doing my best to not pre-judge him. But I am disturbed by persistent allegations that Dana's tradition of ferrying the jet in question to Lagos for repairs was flouted once too often, and that this time, nemesis caught up with the wrong people.
These allegations, by Dana staff, if true, expose the underbelly of commercial aviation in this country: that we are cutting corners in order to make money (or is it stay afloat? Pls tell that to Mr Jonathan). And that in the process, a few bad people are shedding the blood of the innocent

[dash200]

The question of age reflects hypocrisy on the part of virtually all the parties: TRAVELERS, who, in this country, are relatively well off and arguably should know that age's got nothing to do with it; GOVERNMENT, who, subtly, have found an escape route out of their incompetence and criminal culpability; GOVERNMENT again, who should educate the larger public, but are instead, feeding on its fears; THE PUBLIC, who, with typical Nigerian aplomb, are experts in a field they really should learn more about; and of course you-know-who: we're not about to understand that human lives are too precious to toy with, not with the lure of just one, only one, just one more full house before trotting out the techs to do their work...

[ediks]

Dash 200:
Can't argue with any of your points. I feel though we have a responsibility to educate our friends and members of our families as some of the misdirected cries for change are becoming really shrill and strident.
The amount of ignorance and misinformation that is out there is surprising in some cases. This accident has generated a lot of instant experts certain in their assumption that corruption and incompetence are rife at every level in Aviation in Nigeria.
The age of an airplane has less to do with it's airworthiness than the maintenance it receives.
Yet..........The public are not aware (luckily) that having two guys at the pointy end who haven't been paid promptly for the services they render and thus thinking about bread can result in a perfectly serviceable airplane becoming a smoking hole in the ground!! :*

[unstable load]

ediks,
What are you going to educate your friends and family with? That flying in Nigeria is perfectly safe and honest, or that yes, there is corruption and incompetance extant in one form or another at vitually all levels?

As for the public and their lack of awareness of the subtleties of CRM, I think you would be better off beating your head against a wall as the pain will end a lot sooner if you stopped. :ugh::ugh:
CRM/HFIM are subtleties that even management have a tenuous grasp of, let alone Joe Public.

[ediks]

Unstable Load,
I'm not sure that I'm totally CRM compliant either :)
However, there is a trend occurring where people to think that older airplanes are unsafe, newer ones are better and pilots are risk taking devils who play with their passenger's lives by accepting to fly airplanes that are death traps
In our own little corner, we tried our best to ensure that our aircraft had a more than reasonable chance of making it back when they departed and so if I can share what I experienced with them I may be able to educate them a little bit about how things work.
As an example yesterday there was news making the rounds that an Arik airplane didn't have the air conditioning working because one engine had failed and the pilot was going to depart with only the good engine working.
You have to smile when you hear such but it doesn't stop the news from spreading at the speed of light!

[unstable load]

Fair enough, sir. :ok:
Your bit about the Arik single engine departure reminds me of the Chanchangi 727 lined up at PH with the middle engine barking and coughing as they spooled it up to depart, and then pulling it back until it stopped was considered acceptable...:eek:

[ediks]

Funny you should mention that, I always used to wonder what would happen if they lost an engine when I saw them skimming the rooftops over Isolo after departing off 19L as it was called in those days.
Just glad we never got to find out!

[ediks]

Has anyone else wondered that Captain Waxtan joined Dana on March 26 but was already flying as PIC barely 3 months later?
Am I the only one who considers that to be relatively quick ??

[exeng]

Has anyone else wondered that Captain Waxtan joined Dana on March 26 but was already flying as PIC barely 3 months later?
Am I the only one who considers that to be relatively quick ??

I expect he was hired as a 'direct entry Captain'. For many airlines worldwide this is common practise.


Regards
Exeng

[ediks]

I understand that Sir, but it all seems a bit.....quick??
I thought the NCAA are supposed to have stopped issuing validations based on foreign licences so he'd have required a Nigerian Licence which involved sitting for the air law exam, the MD-83 type technical, processing his Licence (ie waiting for the NCAA to issue it, not exactly a speedy process) then doing the number of required sectors during line training before being checked out during his line check.
Even though he was a very experienced pilot with loads of time on the MD-83 how much time did he have in Nigeria? I'm assuming (not a good thing to do I know) that this was the first time he'd flown in Nigeria and so it would have been good practice to pair him with someone who understood the environment well and could serve as an experienced copilot.
What do we know about the gentleman he was flying with that day? How long had he been in Nigeria??
Did the two of them together constitute an "experienced" crew in Nigerian airspace and more importantly within the Dana operational framework?

[LOS]

Dana's spokesman had to debunk the rumour that the pilot tried to jump out of the aircraft.

One paper understood CVR as meaning 'culprit voice recorder'.

At least, the airline provides regular updates: DANA AIRLINES (http://flydanaair.com/media_center.aspx)

[4runner]

Ah yes, these Nigerian airspace inexperienced foreigners who come on their inferior and corrupt FAA and JAA licenses are hampering safety.

[Wannabe Flyer]

Dana's spokesman had to debunk the rumour that the pilot tried to jump out of the aircraft.

Serious? Is it even possible to jump out of the plane?

[usman15gmail]

Dana pilot (http://www.punchng.com/business/business-economy/dana-pilots-last-conversation-with-air-traffic-controller/)

[MamaPut]

ediks,

I thought the NCAA are supposed to have stopped issuing validations based on foreign licences so he'd have required a Nigerian Licence which involved sitting for the air law exam, the MD-83 type technical, processing his Licence (ie waiting for the NCAA to issue it, not exactly a speedy process) then doing the number of required sectors during line training

The NCAA still issues validations based on foreign licences and it requires at least 2 revalidations before considering an application for a Nigerian licence. All that is required for the validation is for the foreign licence to be verified, the Nigerian Air Law exam to be passed and an NCAA medical certificate issued. The whole process can be completed in a few weeks.

[ediks]

4runner: I meant to imply nothing of the sort and if I did, I apologise unreservedly.
However, if you have flown in Nigeria you would understand that there are challenges which you may face that can come as quite a shock to someone who is new to it all.
A good example would be understanding ATC clearances, there is one controller at least at DNMM who speaks quite quickly though I find him to be the nicest of the bunch as he always sounds like he is having fun.

MamaPut: Thanks for the clarification, I stand corrected!!

[Golf_Seirra]

Tragic event......on the lighter side, the comments from the above link have some of the most insightful views of modern aviation in Africa. I think most people still believe it to be some form of magic.....anyone got a magic wand to resolve Africa's problems ?

"HAVING SEEN EMERGENCY EVACUATION OPERATION CARRIED OUT FROM THE LARGEST COMMERCIAL AIRLINER IN THE WORLD AIRBUS A380 CONDUCTED,I WILL SINCERELY ADVICE THAT AIRBUS,BOEING & CO TO START DEVELOPING A SYSTEM BY DEPLOYING AN EMERGENCY EVACUATION PARACHUTE ON EVERY PASSENGER’S ON-BOARD SEATS,AS SOON AS PILOT ANNOUNCES DUAL ENGINE FAILURE,THEN THE PILOT WILL WAIT FOR THE AIRCRAFT TOO AT LEAST GET TO 800-700 FEET WHERE PEOPLE CAN BREATH BEFORE AUTOMATIC EJECT FROM HIS SWITCH GEAR IN THE COCK PIT,I KNOWN THIS PROJECT HIS EXPENSIVE BUT HOW MUCH IS LIFE ITSELF WORTH.":ok::ok:

"This investigation is good; i think is the first of its kind in Nigeria, well done puch crew. Back to the crashed matter,the plane was over loaded both buy human and logages,this reduced the speed of the plane and also forced it to come down immediately the engine shot down.An airplane suppose to glide for at least 15 minutes after engine failure but this one droppped immediately? another factor i want to mention here is that most of crashes has alway been on weekends, meaning that the trafic controller that are experienced are not alway around as the case maybe "to give meanful advice to pilots when we have such emergency.Lets look at that as well."

" If both your aircraft engines get fried and you have only “five minutes” to go down as claimed, start dumping your fuel fast! It will reduce the intensity and duration of a fire in the event of one (and possibly save lives).

Also, if the aircraft’s nose was tipped upward like witnesses said, that indicates a lack of jet propulsion. It is the same physics principle if you’ve ever played with a cylindrical-shaped balloon that releases air and flies through the air.

A descent of 5000 feet in 5 minutes gives about 16 feet per second. That is faster than a huge vulture would drop from the skies after it is has been shot in the head. Any experienced pilot knows they would never have made it to the runway.

That both engines of a commercial aircraft failed right after take-off reflects either: (1) gross negligence (2) a conspiracy."

[ediks]

Golf Sierra: The engines failed on approach to land after an en route flight of 49 minutes.
What we all would like to know is why?

[exeng]

What we all would like to know is why?

Please wait, the answer is not here yet. It won't be here for probably a long time.

Golf Seirra was merely taking a few quotes from the citizens of Nigeria who may not have a full understanding of the matter in hand. Whilst not a laughing matter he was trying (understandably) to inject a little humour into this terrible event.

I'll be honest in that I did find some of the comments amusing.

[ediks]

Sense of humour failure :)
I'll wind my neck in :ok:

[4runner]

Their a/c was a 70 ton glider. They had the worst kind of emergency you can imagine. No one panicked over the radio, no one screamed. The flew the airplane, navigated to the airport and calmly communicated on the radio. The last thing anyone heard from these gentlemen who probably knew their time was up, was "Good day"... I'm proud to be a pilot and it is an honour to share the skies with guys like this.

[chuks]

Crashing into a populated area, killing yourself, all aboard and some folks on the ground... that seems to fall into the category of 'making a bit of a mess of things,' doesn't it? Screaming is 'out,' yes, but even more so is crashing and dying, whatever the reason.

There's an odd mindset at work when people need to imagine what went on in the cockpit of an accident aircraft while knowing next to nothing of the facts. (The only first-hand account I ever had was really surprising, nothing like what I would have guessed, from a fellow who was sat on the jumpseat during a crash that killed both flight crew.)

I think we need to wait for some more information before we apportion praise or blame. According to Flight International's David Learmount, there should be some sort of initial report from the Nigerian authorities in about a month. I want to see that before I even start to think about what happened there. That they must have run out of fuel is the most obvious, best guess, but then the big question would be 'Why?' on what is normally a flight of about one hour.

Like most accidents, this one is likely to have been the product of a chain of events, when right now we are missing most of the links.

[4runner]

So let's drag them through the mud instead...A populated area in the largest city in Afrika??? Sorry that Lagos didn't have a Hudson river nearby. We know that the a/c went down and that these guys died with some dignity. As for the NCAA report, it will probably be altered to fit the needs of the highest bidder. I have a feeling that parts of the a/c are now for sale in the local market and that the scene was anything but a sterile investigation site. I'm not laying blame yet as we dont know exactly what happened. I am however, giving a silent nod to the crew that looks like they did what they had to do in the final moments of their lives.

[chuks]

Nobody knows what went on there, yet.

That flight had an inarguably lousy outcome, didn't it? Ending up in a smoking heap is pretty undignified, at least to my way of thinking; that's not an outcome one really seeks. That is about it for now, though.

It's not that one wishes to "drag" anyone "through the mud," but it takes much more than saying the right things on the radio to merit any sort of "Well done!" We shouldn't forget that 'accountability' thing that crews have to contend with, when this flight ended in disaster. It might well be that there was nothing better that the crew could have done under the circumstances; we have to wait and see about that, but I think it's a bit premature to congratulate them on a job well done. It might make more sense to wait for the accident report to see about that. As to that, the NCAA has been given much more freedom from political influence, so that we may see a perfectly acceptable accident investigation and report. Even in the past I remember reading some accident reports that seemed perfectly straight.

The main thing must be to figure out what went wrong so that we may avoid having such an accident in future. If the radio calls went right, well, Okay, but that is very much beside the point in figuring out what we really need to know, what went wrong, isn't it? We need to know how to avoid having this sort of accident, if possible.

That the crew may have been totally calm and collected while having the accident... it's nice to think so, but what use is speculating about that, since it didn't seem to give a very good outcome?

At a certain point you the pilot may find yourself 'just along for the ride,' once your other options have all been used up. The whole point of a crash investigation for a pilot may be to tell one how to avoid getting into such a situation that one ends up crashing in this way.

How one behaves once one is in such a fix, well... I don't waste a lot of time worrying about that! You have some accident crews who were pretty emotional, yet they lived, and others who were total stoics, yet they died. That's down to individual character, I suppose, when what we need to know about is how to survive whatever just killed all these people.