DONCASTER SHEFFIELD

[TimmyW]

Still no one can explain how a commercial airport at DSA is sustainable with routes being dropped on a regular basis with none replacing them. As I said the last new route was added 2 years ago, with many lost and still being lost.

If the trend continues, and there is nothing to suggest it won't, then do you really see DSA staying open?

[wb9999]

TimmyW, we are in the worst economic crisis for 100 years. Most regional airports are seeing significant declines in passenger numbers, with very few new routes or bases. The CAA forecasts that passenger numbers across the UK will double in the next 20 years. If the forecasts are anywhere near accurate, there will be lots of new routes to be picked up in the future. But the economy will have to improve first.

DSA still has higher passenger numbers than some other, more established, regional airports. For an airport that has only been 8 years, the numbers are not something to worry about. It took regional airports decades to get the passenger numbers they have. Humberside has a third of DSA's passengers with just 2 routes, yet survives.

Peel have very deep pockets, and have invested a lot into DSA. It's unlikely they are going to walk away any time soon.

[TimmyW]

Some good points wb. And I would love to be able to use my local airport. I travel out of the country 10 times a year, and when Easyjet were at the airport, and the Dublin route operated, DSA more than catered for my needs.

I don't think the airport helps itself in terms of marketing or local impact either.

Fingers crossed for some good news soon.

[wb9999]

TimmyW, I wouldn't disagree with that.

In the airports first couple of years I regularly flew with ThomsonFly (the budget airline, as it was then) to Spain or Amsterdam for £8 - £50. Now that Thomson has converted to charter, I would rather fly from EMA or LBA than pay £300 with Thomson. I think that Thomson ditching the budget brand has had a big impact on DSA, as prices increased dramatically.

[Charlie98]

Why is G-MONX circling at DSA? It flew out of man this morning according to FR and is has been circling for a few hours. FR24 shows no 7700 though?:ugh:

[DSA-DUB]

At DSA for training.

[Charlie98]

Oh of course! :ugh: thanks

[peachair732]

I just wonder how much effort DSA is putting in to try to attract a wider range of flights. Wizzair flights running back and forth with Polish industrial esteate workers and a few IT charters by Thomson. Those Thomson packages and flights from DSA are shockingly high priced and I really do fear for the future of DSA. I think in future it will be maybe a few Romanian and Bulgarian flights, ferrying new factory workers back and forth and the odd 'old fogey or lager lout' TFS charter.

[Buster the Bear]

Although I am not familiar with Doncaster, I suspect a large proportion of income will come from rent via tenants located around the airport. It is not always the case that you make huge profits from passengers passing through a terminal (but it helps the bottom line).

[TimmyW]

As there is no competition at the airport, Thomson can pretty much charge what they like. However loads are becoming poor, and Thomson are already scaling back their DSA operation.

I doubt they will return for summer 2014.

[DSA-DUB]

" l doubt if they return for 2014" I don't see your point,charge what they like no competition. If I was in there shoes ill be back every year

[NorthSouth]

charge what they like no competitionother than the much wider choice of routes and airlines from Manchester and Leeds Bradford, plus the odd flight from Humberside - in fact all the airports that DSA set out to steal traffic from as the core of its business case.
NS

[TimmyW]

Rumour mill has started again..............

Although this is one of a new airlines, to commence operations, to be announced within days.......

[onyxcrowle]

Can you expand on that post it doesn't make sense.
And as you say its a rumour so who is it this time ? Imho I dont see a new route now, The post march Schedule is well underway nothing has been announced etc

[Hotel Uniform Yankee]

Jet 2!!!!!!!!

[onyxcrowle]

Why would Jet 2 choose Dsa they already serve Ema. Lba and Man.
Seems to be another empty rumor........
Also Dsa is NOT. On the list or website so how are they supposed to be operating Dsa?????

[j636]

MON have moved onto Jet2 airports in the last year LBA and EMA, although as the poster has no credibality I wouldn't look to much into it.

[onyxcrowle]

Quite ; ). Though in relation to Jet 2 , Surely Huy is more likely as a base.

[onyxcrowle]

I can confirm 100% id eat two hot chillies if im wrong but after much web searching I can be 1900% sure the op was talking out of some fabricated fantasy. In future Timmy vkindly keep these unfounded groundless fantasies off the fourm. Its unfair to build up hopes for those uf us whu support Dsa. In fact cant the mods sort this guy out. DSA ISNT and Wont be about to start a new route at all. They havent in two years . So why now. Stupid total rubbish. Tw n these rants n such like have to stop hes never poven any things hes written n now itsvbeyond a joke.
Jet two have no mention of Dsa nor have they. Dsa has no new routes this year . If they had they had by now we would know.
Ok rant ovetr. But Timmy get your facts straight or forgods sake provide Proof hard evidence n then we Might belive you. But so far your not helping us to have a proper constructive debate.Enough is Enough .
When is Jet 2 or whatever meant to start.
To where.
How many Routes
Give us a Weblink
PROVE IT.
Or dont bother. Some of us actually support our airport n not flood forums with the little boy who cried wolf tales just to post for the sake of it.
Face it timmy. No new routes are coming least of all jet 2.
Now quit already or will admin pls warn him about these pointless posts they are hugely annoying .
Personally im here to enjoy and take part in sensible discussions and support my local airpirt.
But enough is enough now timmy !!!!!!!!

[TimmyW]

Where did I mention Jet2??

Also, what makes you certain DSA will never be getting any new routes? Not very positive for a "supporter" of the airport.

[johnnychips]

True, you didn't. But you are being rather vague. It's not that one that was a new company, supposed to be doing an Amsterdam route, resurrecting itself, is it? Name escapes me.

[j636]

Also, what makes you certain DSA will never be getting any new routes? Not very positive for a "supporter" of the airport.

Pot kettle black don't you think?

[TimmyW]

Just what I have been told from a staff member. Apparently they are on a recruitment drive due to a new airline coming in shortly. That's all I have been told.

I remain unconvinced however,

[onyxcrowle]

Then why post it. Its meaningless. There will be no neq routes. Who would announce now this far inyo the Season. Jet 2. No chance when they have all thise sites doing welk.
And I am a supper just beimg realistic.
Id like you to find and returb with provable info. Hiring staff does Not mean a new route .
What ur suggesting woukd suggest a new operator with multiple routes maybe four or five.
And thats as likely as a real ufo landing on 20. Taxinging to stand 2 and so on.
These tiresone . Fake empty groundless sourceless pie in the sky posts are beyond a joke.
So I thinl most will agree pack it in niw Timmy.
We need GENUINE stories info snd REAL offical genuine good news !!!!!!!. I HOPE you now learn and take note !!!!.
So prove it or dont post.
Or naybe answer.
Which Airline
What Route
The only thing that came up on Google news was a route from Dsa to Isb. The date is old and the site is down!
But honestly Jet 2????.
Finally where is this rumour from ???,??????

[TimmyW]

Again, where did I mention Jet2????

And if you read my post, you'd see where the rumour came from....

[Cazza_fly]

Onyxcrowle maybe you are typing fast under excitement? or your keys are a little mixed up as the typing is a little erratic?

On this occasion I have to stick up for TimmyW in the fact that he never said Jet2 and this is just a rumour that has come and gone for the past few years now anyway. I will however say, rumours from staff unless a little more solid evidence is given should always be taken with a pinch of salt...

I will however say that I wouldn't discount a new operator using the airport in the not too distant future. This doesn't mean it will necessarily be a PAX operator...

[jumpseater]

Timmy
Just what I have been told from a staff member

For us whom have heard this so may times before, would you be kind enough to clarify, was this 'staff member', from one of your ever so previously reliable contacts cited as? :

A: 'A senior commercial person inside Peel Holdings'
B: 'A Loose lipped news desk muppet at Doncaster Free Press'
C: 'A Thompson crew member'
D: 'Some bloke on the internet'
E: 'A new bezzy mate'


'We' still remain unconvinced however. ( By you that is. Just to clarify )

[jumpseater]

I think its more likely OC has a new phone, rather than over excitement at one of Timmy's postings.

[onyxcrowle]

Wheres your proof who told you ?????.
Beyond an odd google link to a poss new route to isb there is no jet 2., There website has nothing on it.
Airlines why would they announce now.
Provide concrete proof and so on once and for all or quit your fairy tales. Either stop these or I propose a full complaint to admin!!
Which airline
What route
Startin when ??
Answe those truthfully or I raise a complaint based on over a year of these pointless unfounded posts.
In fact mods. May I respectfully request may I start a New Doncaster thread?

[TimmyW]

Why are you obsessed with Jet2?? I never mentioned them, yet you talk as if I did!

This is a rumour forum isn't it? I have posted a rumour circulating amongst DSA staff at the moment.

[onyxcrowle]

Yes sorry new phone. Autocorrect keeps jumping in.
I dont see where Timmy said where information is from he just said rumour mill started no mention of source or details
Almost every previous post has been the same and always come to nothing. Talk about the boy who cried wolf!!
Its time the mods had a word

[TimmyW]

I've clearly stated where the rumour has come from.

And a quick check online shows the airport have been doing a lot of recruitment lately, which backs up half the rumour.

Nowhere did I insinuate it was Jet2, or any other airline.

Never mind, you seem convinced the airport will never, ever announce a new route!

[onyxcrowle]

Someone said Jet 2 !

[onyxcrowle]

So which sirline have you been told your post Didnt say which airline or to where .
You said sort of but it didnt make sense a new airline.
So who????
What route
Was it staff who told you. Or did you just read tthe staff expansion and assume new routes

[TimmyW]

I don't have any specific info. I have just posted what I have been told.

At the end of the day, the airport will have to attract new routes at some point, or else it won't survive.

[onyxcrowle]

And someone told you new routes soon ?. Airpirt staff ?. Or a mate at the paper

[TimmyW]

I have already answered that

[egcntristar]

Easy on the inquisition OC, the guy didn't say it was Jet2.

Let him hang himself out to dry as usual......

[onyxcrowle]

Its just annoying that for those of us who want our community to thrive and grow in turn we need and desire a thrving airport , With all the business connections it can and could bring , Along with Huy as our local airport its right to feel strongly about the future if both.
So to have a poster who regularly delights in downplaying the airport and its chances . Or randomly posts totally empty basesless roumors , Whos only defence for doing so is the site is labled as a rumor forum , Well its getting totally beyond a joke.
Yes it happens on the internet. But there has to be a degree of reality to conform with the hard work if the forum providors who give us this enjoyable forum in which to share genuine information or share hopes and ideas for thr future of our airports and the aviation industry.
We do NOT need ' the little boy who cried wolf' Randomly posting worthless baseless info. Simply for the sake of a new post for that airport , Speculation is fine .Ideas are fine . Etc etc

[johnnychips]

Let's just chill a bit. Things don't seem to be improving at DSA nor getting any worse.

[onyxcrowle]

Any news on this 'hub' link

[TimmyW]

What hub link??

[onyxcrowle]

Some rumor about a link to a hub airport.

[TimmyW]

Seeing as I was heavily questioned about where my rumour came from, can I ask where yours was from?

Seems whatever I was told was either rubbish or it hasn't happened yet. But facts are still there, passenger numbers so far this year are heavily down on last year.

[pug]

Doomsday Preppers - National Geographic Channel - UK (http://natgeotv.com/uk/doomsday-preppers)

When are you appearing Timmy? :ok:

[egcntristar]

Can't see anything coming anytime soon, maybe something new from Wizz or a synergy of the LPL-CPH link with Norwegian at a big push.....

[TimmyW]

More bad news.

Bourgas and Kos dropped from Thomson's offerings for next summer.
Also 2 less flights from Thomas Cook compared to this year.

The reductions continue.

[onyxcrowle]

Egcn Tristar.
That was what I said but got shot down for re the Synergy for lpl and No.
I asked a question of someone in the know.
Im not naming the source incase the info was given to me as a single person asking and confidential.
It would be unfair to come out and say it.
However I can prove that I had a communication which answered a few questions.
Now...
A hub route is apparently an imminent aim.
Long haul and seemingly a middle eastern connection is in the works but a long way off.
However. My view as stated on my local forum.
As you say a lpl synergy.
I predict a daily bar one or two days out n return to Cph.
Cph is a hub.
That covers the comment on email as its not a lie but is actually a Hub connection.
However its typical form there.
First Ezy tries Ams with oversized poorly timed Ac Got the hump about numbers rather than altering times and making a go of it
Then they chased Another hub route with an airline that never was and fares that would have made sure that their ac ended up with no takers.
What we need is either Klm to Ams
Cityjet/Hop ( or whatever airfrance are called now). With smaller aircraft and a connection to CDG.
But I really see this one coming another half thought through attempt.
Using NO. FROM Dsa. However long the flying time is to CPH. So in order for connection flights to the US or wherever Those Dsa flights will need to be very Early.
You need a return back in a day.
DO No codwshare,.
I can maybe see Dsa-Cph-Jfk as a joint ticket.
Maybe in that sense it would be good for dsa.
Wedaybe need a midday out n return trip.
But if you look at it Ryanair are Hardly there Ezy are obviously training which may mean a return.
But I think No are the most plausible.
They could add other routes such as a few we already have in competition with Thomson
And maybe add one or two more new routes.
So all in alk youd have no great change.
Dsa is ripe for an incoming Lcc like no.
We have a long runway. So their longhaul might even be the long term plan.
But they are most likely.
New planes. Neq foreign routes run from the uk.
No said they want into quieter regional airports or those with little loco presense.
Id even lay odds on them trying Dtv to Cph as well.

[pamann]

Can someone please translate the above post :confused:

[RAFAT]

Onyx - I applaud your efforts in regard to research and strategical insight, but could you PLEASE put a bit more thought into your posts. As pamann states, your above post requires a translator to make it understandable.

"re the Synergy for lpl and No." - Who are Synergy and do they operate from Liverpool? No?
"As you say a lpl synergy." - Again, who is Synergy?
"Using NO. FROM Dsa." - NO?
"I predict a daily bar one or two days" - Where's the bar? Is it a free one? What days do they serve?
"Cityjet/Hop" - I know who CityJet are, they don't hop!
"DO No codwshare,." - Is that an instruction?
"Wedaybe" - Now you're just making words up for your own entertainment!
"an incoming Lcc like no." - What (or who) is NO for Pete's sake?
"New planes. Neq foreign routes run from the uk." - Your guess is as good as mine!

You obviously have a lot to say and it's probably all very informative when deciphered; might I suggest first typing your posts into a Word document on your PC and then cutting and pasting into here. :ok:

On a personal level, I've watched Finningley turn from being one of the busiest RAF Stations in the UK to probably the quietest airport in the UK, having such a long runway that's an absolute sin and disappoints me greatly. Peel stuck with the project through all the Public Enquiry nonsense and the Kirkham-funded anti-airport campaigns, which I admire them for, but now they just seem happy to let it rot. :=

[Keyvon]

@TimmyW

Bourgas by TOM is not operated for the current summer schedule, too. It is still offered by Balkan Holidays.

The only destination which it seems to be dropped for next year is Kos.

[TimmyW]

Thomas are also doing Bourgas this year. Starts next week

[LBIA]

Thomas are also doing Bourgas this year. Starts next week

So who's Thomas! Also what aircraft is been using for this new flight to Bourgas that no one knows about apart from you TimmyW?

[TimmyW]

Thomson. iPhones predictive text.

Mondays departing at 18.30

Any more questions??

[SWBKCB]

Aren't DSA and LPL now owned by separate companies?

Thought DSA was Peel and LPL was Vantage (although Peel are part owners of Vantage).

Is there still any operational links?

[onyxcrowle]

Sorry its all typed on a smart phone.
Its auto correct hates me.
Basically I meant this
I had an email from a genuinely rock solid source..I wont name that source as the email to me was to me only.
It didnt say it was confidential but they had the decency to reply with a fairly detailed response.
The jist was . A hub connection is expected in the near term (imminent).
Klm?..
I think not
By No I meant Norweigan. Purely on the basis they already fly from lpl. They are buying more aircraft.
They stated they are looking to expand into smaller uk airports prob those with little or no loco traffic.
After previous efforts by the airport. What was promised the great AMS link turned into poorly timed services. Too large an aircraft ( wernt thwy 320's).
Then the airport published an announcement from a startup airline that never happened.
Abd if it had its published prices could only have attracted very wealthy people. .
I wouldn't have ever started to talk to an airline likw that.
So given that form I bet and can see Norweigan coming in. Probably a fair few flights a week.
But it will have to beat previous efforts or it too will fail.
Plus Dsa to Cph is a longer flight than Ams..
Timing would be critical if it was to offer code share for ongoing long haul.
I dont know if Norweigan (NO). Have code share
Hence why I think it fits as being that neq hub route. Its the same kinda setup before a good potentially busy route but has against it travel time and is it a real alternative to Ams..
As for my writing I do apologise. Im on strong meds from the Doctors for my illness it makes it difficult to use this app to post here.
As for thw point about longhaul.
That was definitely mentioned. The midde east was I think the one that was Mentioned as I had directly asked about that. (All uk Dubai flights arw always packed. With a long runway and better weather in terns of winds. Id bet Dsa would be an Easy bet down the line . Note the long haul stuff was way down the road yet.
Also I think a Domestic route is almost on us. Ive read Aberdeen a while back. But it didnt say what carriers.
Regards Hop It is the new name for air France regional
And you know who city jet are.
Perhaps the Bmi training the other day was a clue to the domestic route.
I cant see them doing any hub connection. Unless they now fly to one.

[AP1995]

Just because aircraft do training at the airport, it does not mean they will set up routes from there. Jet2, Monarch, Easyjet all do training from there and have no routes.

[TimmyW]

Hope your right Onyx. As now with Thomson cutting more routes, it doesnt look good.

BMI was the airline I heard the rumor about.

[jetstar.8]

TimmyW
DSA is going down the same way DTV did from record passenger figures in 2006 to the worst passenger figures since 1973 in 2012 :eek:

[onyxcrowle]

Once the link road is in the economy will be up this time next year.
Norweigan seem a hot prospect. They are at lpl. Could they do lpl -cph-dsa-cph-lpl.
Perhaps that gives the airport its Hub thing.
Though as always never quite what wed hoped.
A downside is id reckon theyd come in with perhaps three or four neq routes that we dont Have.
Norway. Stavanger maybe. Oslo hl hopefully keflavic and vagar.
But my best bet
Theyl do
CPH
Alicantie
Canaries.
PalmA
Prauge
Oslo

FLY bmi.
Almost certainly would be a good bet along with Eastern
Aberdeen
Southampton
Edinburgh

Loganair. (Pie in the sky but why not)
Glasgow
Prestwick
Inverness

Ones for Huy with then
Direct flighs E170 to
Stornoway
Sumburgh Direct.

Easyjet I think will be back. Prob Ams oe Maybe a German Hub
Easyjet to Gatwick.
Prauge
Bristol
Ams
Southern Med
Greece
Tel Aviv try tempt them from MAM

[davidjohnson6]

onyx - I'm sure it's just a sign of local pride, but could you try to be a little more realistic - the chance of a Doncaster - Tel Aviv route is absolutely zero.

[Ringwayman]

And there's rumours that Norwegian's LPL-CPH was started to take advantage of incentives given by CPH for unserved routes, and once they cease, the route will be transferred to sit alongside the other MAN routes they operate. Besides they are not a "legacy" airline - yes they fly to major Scandinavian airports but there's no way they will be offering connections which would be purpose of them intimating "hub" airport

If anything, perhaps a 2 daily Aer Lingus Regional to Dublin.

As for new domestic links, are we supposed to forget the beautiful APD which will kill it off in a trice as it affects you'd be paying it twice?

I'd be extremely surprised if easyJet came back. There must be a reason why the left.

[Cazza_fly]

onyx - I'm sure it's just a sign of local pride, but could you try to be a little more realistic - the chance of a Doncaster - Tel Aviv route is absolutely zero.


I have to agree.

I really don't understand the latest obsession with Norwegian either? Any link with Liverpool's operations and DSA's as a group can't really be used anymore as they are now operating under different ''ownerships''. Also some of the destination's you have suggested (Keflavik and Vagar) are not even operated by Norwegian from their major bases so why you would think they could make them work at DSA baffles me?

easyJet to Gatwick; Well personally I don't see a London link (even more so without direct interline connections) ever working from DSA or anywhere further south in the country than MAN/LBA. Those who want to travel into the city have the option of doing so with upto 6 trains an hour from Doncaster alone. The direct journey times from center to centre average from around 1h 30m from Doncaster and usually no longer than 2 hours from Sheffield. Those connecting to other flights, most likely longhaul, already have the option of using suitable flights to LHR from other Northern airports that I feel supply the demand well.
As for Tel Aviv, why would easyJet want to 'tempt' their own customers away from Manchester? :confused:

I feel it would be better all round if we try and stick more to the rumours and news regarding DSA and it's airlines on this thread rather than potentials and fantasies...

:ok:

[LAX_LHR]

Onyxcrowle,

Did you actually do ANY research into your list or did you simply just look at a map and think 'Id like an airline to serve there, there and there'?

Firstly, Norwegian:

Could they do lpl -cph-dsa-cph-lpl

No because LPL is not a base. Flights would be from CPH and not part of a LPL W pattern as you have suggested.

Stavanger to DSA? Is there a market? Probably not (unless the Doncaster rovers matches are actually full of Scandinavians?)

Secondly, easyjet:

Tel Aviv try tempt them from MAM

Im assuming you mean MAN? Do you know why they serve MAN-TLV? Its not just because 'they feel like it and have no-where better to use the aircraft', its because there is a market, and one that can currently support flights from MAN due to the large Jewish population that reside in the MAN area. Has Doncaster got a large Jewish Population? No. Has Sheffield? Not one large enough to support soon 3 weekly flights from easyjet.

Lastly, I appreciate you are using a phone or tablet or whatever, but please can you at least attempt to proof read your posts, they are very hard to understand, both due to layout and spelling.

[barry lloyd]

Cazza_fly:

LAX_LHR:

:ok:

[WOWBOY]

Interesting read this fourm. I see Doncaster Sheffield as bit of white elephant. It hasn't really taken off(sorry for the pun). Why does it seem to fail to attract airlines and routes?

Guess nearby Leeds Bradford doesn't help.

[anothertyke]

You need a core market. LBA is far from ideally connected but it does have York, Harrogate, Leeds and Bradford within easy reach. There's a lot of spending power there. Then there is MAN with so much range and frequency. If you say that airports like MAN are premier league and LBA/EMA championship, I don't see DSA achieving promotion from league one. Too close to the others and not enough affluent core market. Nothing to do with operational management, that's how it is.

[ILS32]

A good analogy anothertyke using the football league as a reference to airport status.
Unfortunately DSA is in the drop zone for division 2. It will take a good manager to get them out of it.

[LN-KGL]

Cazza_fly, Norwegian has trice weekly flights from OSL to KEF. In case some of you didn't know: Norwegian's by far largerst hub and base you will find at OSL. Measured in available seats OSL is over 125% larger than ARN, the second largest hub and base. If you want to learn more about Norwegian, a good starting point would be the CAPA Norwegian report from Feb 2013:
Norwegian Air Shuttle: at a critical turning point | CAPA - Centre for Aviation (http://centreforaviation.com/analysis/norwegian-air-shuttle-at-a-critical-turning-point-98089)

Not even Robin Hood can persuade Norwegian to fly to DSA.

[TimmyW]

Some bizarre posts and route predictions.

The facts are there, routes continue to be cut, as I said Thomson have cut 2 more routes for next summer, adding to the decline.

I had heard rumours about BMI, but in reality, it isn't going to happen.

[HOODED]

Good News for the airport, as it is so quiet it appears that TOM are to do some line training with their shiney new 787s at Doncaster. Cardiff Shannon and Prestwick are also mooted to be used. Being quiet on the scheduled flights have some advantages after all! :)

[onyxcrowle]

Excuse my late night random posts. Am signed off at the mo. Take my late night meds and then browse the net till I fall asleep.
I guess when doing this I get carried away...
Anyway back to normal and reality.
In light of comments made that BA are doing Uk training fir the A380 and of course needing a long enough and quiet enough runway to do it, Does that mean DSS is on the list for a training flight ?.
Im asking this following on from the 787 visit

[TimmyW]

Frequencies reduced on other Thomson routes for next summer as well to add to the loss of Kos and Bourgas.

Could this be the first step of them moving out of DSA?

Could the airport survive without them?

[ryansf]

If they were going to move out, they'd do it in one big swoop, not gradually.

[TimmyW]

Why the gradual decline though? They have steadily reduced their services year on year.

Passenger numbers at DSA look like they're going to be a lot worse than last year (which was the worst year by far). You have to wonder when it will finally bottom out and things will change.

[TimmyW]

There was a post on the DSA Facebook page stating that a new airline called Fly2 would be starting flights in summer 2014.

The post has since been deleted, so i'm guessing it was just a wind up, as there is nothing about this company anywhere online.

[jumpseater]

So Timmy no comment on the email with all the extra movements on it then?

I'd have thought your mate:rolleyes: (pick an imaginary mates occupation/employer) from any of the following,

A/ Peel :eek:
B/ Doncaster Free Press :D
C/ Thompson Crew room :ok:
D/ Wizzair :=

would have sent it to you.

It's pretty good news wouldn't you agree?

[rpmac]

Jumpseater
What "good news" do you have?

[TimmyW]

If the extra movements were new passenger flights then maybe it would be worth mentioning.

[jumpseater]

TW
If the extra movements were new passenger flights then maybe it would be worth mentioning.

So do you have the email? Or any of your mates, do they have the email?

[TimmyW]

Clearly not.

You going to talk in riddles, or say what it is you're actually on about.

[AP1995]

I'm sure Jet2 will have something to say about 'Fly2' since they took JetXtra to court.. I have heard nothing on this new airline and can not find it on google however Jet2 comes up.. sounds a bit far fetched to me.

[onyxcrowle]

Sooner or later we will get a new airline.
Possibly Jet 2 . Routes as follows Ams , Prauge, Perhaos a German destination and some sun routes adding to what we now have .
The danger is Thomson get the hump and leave.
Or a foreign airport Like Norweigan might well come in. Offer the med destinations. And Ams or Cph.
They are expanding theyve cited underserved uk domestic airports. . Id bet that even Tees Valley would be in with a shout there.
Also DSA or HUY to KEF should see. Land of fire and ice. Something different to tempt the public.
As for this new airline rumour astreus is meant to be coming back. Hes launching a new airline. So who knows.
Perhaps Jet2 Would come to Dsa to Squeeze out Huy n Jet xtra..
But its all speculation.
Otherwise the not so great alternative is Ryanair bringing loads of new routes at once.
As they habbit of leaving quickly.

[Cazza_fly]

Sooner or later we will get a new airline.
Possibly Jet 2 . Routes as follows Ams , Prauge, Perhaos a German destination and some sun routes adding to what we now have .
The danger is Thomson get the hump and leave.
Or a foreign airport Like Norweigan might well come in. Offer the med destinations. And Ams or Cph.
They are expanding theyve cited underserved uk domestic airports. . Id bet that even Tees Valley would be in with a shout there.
Also DSA or HUY to KEF should see. Land of fire and ice. Something different to tempt the public.
As for this new airline rumour astreus is meant to be coming back. Hes launching a new airline. So who knows.
Perhaps Jet2 Would come to Dsa to Squeeze out Huy n Jet xtra..
But its all speculation.
Otherwise the not so great alternative is Ryanair bringing loads of new routes at once.
As they habbit of leaving quickly.


Please onyxcrowle, we've asked before, can we try and stick more to reality, talk about ''known'' rumours and comment on current news regarding DSA as well as attempting to proof read your posts before posting? Hopefully this is not yet another post from your ''late night meds'' :confused: Maybe restrict yourself at these times from using the internet...

[StoneyBridge Radar]

I'm beginning to think someone's meds might be happy pills.

We're really descending into the realms of absolute fantasy.

C'mon; this is PPRuNe not Fans of DSA. :*

[Stampe]

You guys need cheering up...enjoy the 787 visit this afternoon if all goes to plan!!EGCN is a great airport to operate from it deserves to succede.Regards Stampe

[AP1995]

I'm sorry Onyx but your head is way in the clouds.. why on earth would Jet2 go to Doncaster? they have LBA, MAN & EMA to cover that, LBA is close enough to HUY to compete. I think you need to stop posting what your imagination wants and post accurate and not over the top predictions.

[ILS32]

Spoilsport AP1995 I like to read Onyx's posts.

[SFCC]

Well I reckon onyxcrowle is onto something.
My best mate's half brother's cousin has a brother (twice removed) that knows a guy in the local boozer who knows a chap that works for Servisair at DSA. He told him that because Thomson had landed a Dreamliner there this afternoon, it was a racing certainty that they intend to base at least two there and wait for it.....they were going to start a daily rotation to Keflavik!
And another to Tel Aviv.

Spookily accurate info from Onyx if you ask me.
:}

[GayFriendly]

For an airport that has so few routes and passengers, it sure has an impressive number of posts here on PPRUNE. Shame most of them are at best fantastical hallucinations ;)

What seemed like a good idea back in the early noughties is now a bit of a lame duck. Still, the only way is up I guess.

[TimmyW]

Still waiting to see what this myth was that jumpseater was talking about.

[G-FORZ]

Ignoring the horrendous M62 West, the hour journey crossing Leeds to LBA and the increasingly unpredictable M1 South to EMA for anyone South/South East of Leeds, there is a large bucket & spade population East of the A1 & as far South as Peterborough & North to York for whom DSA is the preferred airport.
Jet 2 would do well to give a real tour operator alternative to Thomson without dilution of their existing customer base. Are Thomson dictating the terms of alternate airlines to the detriment of DSA expansion? Are they really still offering the best for DSA to warrant any exclusive preference?

[ILS32]

Ignoring the horrendous M62 West, the hour journey crossing Leeds to LBA and the increasingly unpredictable M1 South to EMA for anyone South/South East of Leeds, there is a large bucket & spade population East of the A1 & as far South as Peterborough & North to York for whom DSA is the preferred airport.
If DSA is the preferred choice for all those you mention above,why is the number of passengers using the airport decreasing year on year? If what you say is true then airlines would be falling over themselves to provide routes to service the demand.

[wb9999]

If DSA is the preferred choice for all those you mention above,why is the number of passengers using the airport decreasing year on year? If what you say is true then airlines would be falling over themselves to provide routes to service the demand.

The same reason why almost every regional airport has seen passenger numbers decline in the last 4 years - the economy. The few airports that are still growing have seen the growth slow down substantially.

[TimmyW]

And maybe because the number of routes and frequency of those routes is declining year on year? Less routes equals less passengers.

I fly 5 times a year for business. 4 years ago, i would use DSA each time as the routes were available, I can no longer do this.

[jumpseater]

Timmy
Still waiting to see what this myth was that jumpseater was talking about.

Oh timmy dahling, theres no myth about an email I've seen.

On the subject of myths, just remind us all when Wizzair are going to Manchester.

Remember, you said 4th September last year

So - the rumor is still circulating that Wizz are pulling out of DSA.

Expect an official announcement within the next week.


Remember, you said 12th July last year
It is correct. Ryanair have axed routes from DSA for the forseeable

Even Oc's chemically assisted posts of late have more substance to them anything Timmy writes. According to a contact of mine at Doncaster Free Press the telly programme 'Mythbusters' were asked to come to Doncaster to prove some of Timmys statements. Apparently they turned it down, they only deal with interesting or plausible subject matter.

[TimmyW]

Why not explain what the email says then, if it even exists.

[rpmac]

Jumpseater:
If there is some good news in the email perhaps you could share that with us. That would help in this forum where we interested in 'news' even if eventually turns out to be an incorrect rumour.

[RAFAT]

ILS32 - as TimmyW rightly points out, fewer routes = fewer pax.

[jumpseater]

Jimmy
Why not explain what the email says then, if it even exists.

Well Timmy, the email exists. It says there's going to be some movements by a heavier than air machine, or more than one. There's a whole page of them. Mind you if I make the page a lot bigger I can make several pages of them which looks like more than a page.

I'm surprised your contacts at the airport, local media or international airlines haven't sent you it. Do cut and paste it when your mates send you a copy. I mean even your mate at the free press seems to know some of what's going on at the airport. How comes you're out of the loop then?

VIDEO: Dreamliner draws the crowds in Doncaster - Business - Doncaster Free Press (http://www.doncasterfreepress.co.uk/news/business/video-dreamliner-draws-the-crowds-in-doncaster-1-5745077)

You were telling us how well connected you are, mate at Peel giving you commercially sensitive information, contacts in Thompson crew room, an inside line to the local snoozepaper, Wizzair, have I left anyone out? the man in the moon perhaps?


Lets not forget Timmy, you were telling us Wizzair were leaving, when the deal to stay at DSA had already been signed. Doh! :D

[ILS32]

So jumpseater the gist of this secret e-mail is that Thomsons with their Dreamliner and maybe some other airline will be doing some touch and goes.

[TimmyW]

Well jumpseater, thanks for that. Getting excited over a few training flights. That's really going to help the airport long term.

There's been another rumour doing the rounds that Thomson are to base a Dreamliner at DSA, however, the airport have dismissed it on their own Facebook page, as well as stating there won't be any new routes for the short to medium term. It seems the airport has even admitted defeat with attracting new airlines and routes!

The magical link road that was to be the airports saviour, still hasn't commenced, almost a year after construction was meant to begin. There is no serious doubt whether it will actually happen at all.

Also, been told today that the airports marketing budget is................£0. Which is not hard to believe seeing as there is no marketing of any kind locally.

Rant over.

[wb9999]

The magical link road that was to be the airports saviour, still hasn't commenced, almost a year after construction was meant to begin. There is no serious doubt whether it will actually happen at all.

TimmyW, the link road is due to start when the White Rose Way improvements have completed - which is almost complete, but not quite. The contract for the link road was signed in October 2012, and the council's website states that construction will start in early 2013.

New signs were put up on White Rose Way in the last week. Approaching the M18 Junction 3 from Doncaster, there is sign just before the junction roundabout to indicate the directions on the roundabout. The sign has an arrow for straight on (the new FARRRS road), so I think you safely say it is still due to be built.

I'm not sure where you get your information from, but there are adverts running on Capital FM for Robin Hood Airport at the moment, so they clearly are spending money on advertising.

[TimmyW]

Not sure where you have heard that, but the last media publication stated that funding had not been agreed, and that was only a few weeks ago.

And waiting for White Rose Way to be finished first makes no sense, as by the time FARRRS is ready for use, White Rose Way would have been long completed.

[onyxcrowle]

Farrs is getting built. There have been some tree ckearance just by jcn3 roundabout.
Like the borders railway another epic wait for work to start . Now thats underway. Plus you forget the A1jcn to 3 motorway widening. Signed sealed and starting shortly. All the survey stuff was out for that.
That in turn is FOR the Farrs scheme.
Furthermore theres one mentioned about a link from m180/M18 etc somewhere.
Law of averages it will start late summer proper . N into autumn. Its not a long road.
We might see new airlines. But id actually eat the hottest chilli going if they actually announced any new routes!.

[jumpseater]

Still not been sent the email then Timmy? By the way, (reffering to the training flights) how many is 'a few'


Timmy
There's been another rumour doing the rounds that Thomson are to base a Dreamliner at DSA, however, the airport have dismissed it on their own Facebook page, as well as stating there won't be any new routes for the short to medium term. It seems the airport has even admitted defeat with attracting new airlines and routes!


More fantasies eh Timmy.
https://www.facebook.com/doncastersheffieldairport
So where are the bits that say no short to medium term then?

And you've heard they have £0 marketing budget. :D
Hearing Aids, Hearing Test & Hearing Problems | Specsavers Hearing Centres (http://www.specsavers.co.uk/hearing/)

[ILS32]

This thread is becoming more like a childrens playground.It's time some of you took a more mature attitude and started posting as adults for a change.If you have something relevent to post about DSA which will be of interest to the viewers of this thread then post it.If it's just name calling(childish behavior)then don't post it is becoming rather tedious.

[rpmac]

ILS32
Totally agree with you that this thread is childish and boring. I see DONCASTER listed and look up with interest to see any news of developments good or bad, even 'rumours' circulating about the airport but recent posts put me off looking this up and I tend to avoid this thread altogether.

[TimmyW]

Well it seems Humberside got the Copenhagen route that was rumoured for DSA.

Another kick in the teeth, especially seeing as an airport in the middle of nowhere, with even worse transport links manages to land a route that DSA can't.

[TimmyW]

Wizzair frequency for this winter is less than the one just gone.
More cuts!

[TimmyW]

May pax figures down on may last year. Despite the owners stating passenger numbers would improve. This year compared to last looks set to be even worse, despite what was publicised as a busier schedule of flights.

With frequencies and routes reduced for 2014, I ask the question - when will the loses bottom out and growth begin?!

[Cazza_fly]

Wizzair frequency for this winter is less than the one just gone.
More cuts!


All Wizzair routes to and from DSA are now on sale for winter 2013/14.

There is no known decrease in the overall weekly frequency of services that you say of to which I can see? Infact on a weekly basis, (excluding any of the extra increases over the Christmas & New Year period) DSA have an extra flight a week when compared to the winter 2012/13 period. This is from the addition of an extra flight a week to KTW.

GDANSK GDN - 3x Weekly - WEDNEDSAY, FRIDAY, SUNDAY (ARR 2000 DEP 2030)
KATOWICE KTW - 3x Weekly -WEDNESDAY, FRIDAY, SUNDAY (ARR 2120 DEP 2150)
POZNAN POZ - 2x Weekly - TUEDAY & SATURDAY (ARR 1720 DEP 1750)
VILNIUS VNO - 2x Weekly - FRIDAY & MONDAY (ARR 1950 DEP 2020)
WARSAW WAW - 2x Weekly - FRIDAY & MONDAY (ARR 0745 DEP 0815)
WROCLAW WRO - 2x Weekly - THURSDAY & SUNDAY (ARR 1805 DEP 1835)

[TimmyW]

Fair enough, although one extra weekly flight in the winter months, when on some day's there is only one departure is not much to get excited about.

Something has to change and very soon.

[jumpseater]

ILS 32
It's time some of you took a more mature attitude and started posting as adults for a change.If you have something relevent to post about DSA which will be of interest to the viewers of this thread then post it.

Well 32 I did post something relevant about Doncaster, I'll post some more later.

Now in your new world order that you so desire I'm assuming not only do you disprove of Timmys posts but also other posts such as the idiot Leeds fanboi who posted the definitive statement of:

No Cargo movements are planned at the moment, but hopefully DSA might gain more Cargo movements when the economy picks up, but they will have stiff competition from both EMA and MAN


Less that 48 hours later the first of a sequence of AN124 flights was on the ground at Doncaster. What this sort of statement (quoted above) proves to people who either work in real life let alone with any connection to this or any other airport, who the idiots on the forums are. Another way of course is cross checking posts by different usernames across forums. I'm told by one of my contacts at DSA that looking at profile pictures on social media is quite a good way too. You can find pictures of people in bars, where frankly it looks like their hair dresser and style consultant has either been in the bar with them, or could do with a trip to Specsavers vision department :ok:


Timmy has again been proven wrong about Wizzair by Cazza, at least Timmy is consistent at being wrong about Wizz, (as well as so many other things).

Apparently the airport has a '£0' marketing budget according to Timmy.

On the school run Timmy could get his mum to switch the wireless on to listen to between five and six different adverts running the entire summer for DSA. These are on commercial radio, (Capital). Is Timmy telling us that advertising on Capital Radio is free? Seems not, according to Capital Advertising - Capital (http://www.capitalfm.com/yorkshire/advertising/)
It would seem odd that if the budget is £0 as Timmy tells us, (presumably his Peel contact;) ) that the airport has got prime time slots free.:D

On the budget thing again, perhaps Timmy would care to comment as to why the airport would lie in a current job specification for a senior marketing position?, where it states an experience requirement of managing staff and budgets. Why would the company deliberately falsify a job advert? Is Timmy saying that DSA is breaking employment law?





If 32 and rpmac you don't like reading my posts you can do several things.

Put me on your ignore list.
Read and ignore my posts.
Report me to a moderator.
Don't read this thread.

I don't care which you do. I'm more than happy to carry on pointing out Timmy and others stupidity who have clearly taken this publication a little too seriously.

http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c270/2012images/ADB.jpg (http://s29.photobucket.com/user/2012images/media/ADB.jpg.html)

N.B. For stupidity you can also include the expectation that anyone with any sense would disclose specific contents of potentially commercially sensitive emails.

I'll leave you with these facts though

1/ I have seen an email with about 40 code D/E aircraft confirmed movements planned, can't recall specifically what category aircraft.

2/ On Tuesday morning in the terminal they had a trade exhibition relating to Yorkshire. (Hosted presumably by the airport, or their marketing team ...)
Robin Hood Airport (http://www.robinhoodairport.com/corporate-community/media-centre/press-releases/regions-logistics-offering-taken-to-world-stage)
New Sector Groups Launch | Sheffield City Region Local Enterprise Partnership (LEP) (http://www.sheffieldcityregion.org.uk/sectorlaunch/)

3/ As a backdrop to that trade exhibition positioned on the northern terminal stands was an AN124, (that positioning was pre-planned).

[ILS32]

It's time some of you took a more mature attitude and started posting as adults for a change.If you have something relevent to post about DSA which will be of interest to the viewers of this thread then post it.


jumpseater don't get your knickers in a twist.The quote is not aimed at you as an individual but is in recognition that certain posters are using this thread to run down each other and the airport. PPRune Members view Airlines, Airports & Routes to find out what's happening at their own airport and also what's happening at other airports which may be of interest to them.If posters stick to posting items of interest relating to DSA then this thread will once again be enjoyable to view.In regard to not liking your post you are wrong some of the things you post are interesting.Like today for example about the cargo flights if you hadn't posted no one would have known about the AN 124s.

[FRatSTN]

I wish Wizz Air didn't do so many late evening flights to Doncaster (or early morning in Warsaw's case). In fact they are often worse for this in the summer seasons than the winter. It would be nice to see some form of Wizz Air activity in daylight hours. I think the fact the airport virtually lies still from dawn to dusk also gives an even worse impression on the level of traffic available from there.

I'm not really sure on why they choose to do it year after year. I think this could be an issue for the airport in terms of attracting more passengers as they may not bother with Doncaster and choose elsewhere. For example, Ryanair fly to Poznan, Warsaw and Wroclaw from East Midlands at a sociable midday sort of times as well Vilnius from Leeds/Bradford and Krakow from various UK airports.

I think even people north of Nottingham or in South Yorkshire may prefer these options rather than leaving Doncaster so late they don't reach Poland until the middle of the night!

[TSR2]

I'm not really sure on why they choose to do it year after year

Could it be something to do with Airport Charges being considerably less at unsociable times ?

[FRatSTN]

It could be but that would seem a bad management move by Doncaster Airport to adopt that pricing structure at an airport of that size. It could potentially put off a number of airlines who would consider using Doncaster.

I think I recall hearing it's to do with the airspace being quieter at those times when other local airports are quieter, but that also seems a bit weird to me!

[TimmyW]

Passenger numbers nosedive at Doncaster Robin Hood airport - Business - Doncaster Free Press (http://www.doncasterfreepress.co.uk/news/business/passenger-numbers-nosedive-at-doncaster-robin-hood-airport-1-5785658)

Damning report in the local paper, and the owners still insist its down to the economy and that the link road will save day day. :ugh:

[SFCC]

Much as I'd like to see the place prosper, I see nothing but impending doom for DSA.
Shame, really, but I'm sure it all fits in with the 'Master Plan' :mad:

[A300BOY]

I still believe it is an Airport too many !! If Leeds and Humberside Airports were to close I am sure it would prosper but not enough business for all three sites.

[TimmyW]

I still believe if the routes are there at a decent price - they will be used.

If it was on par with routes as other local airports, at a competitive price - why would people still travel further afield?

Peel need to be honest with their intentions though - as I still firmly believe it was just land aquisition and still is.

[anothertyke]

Logic wrong way around. Draw a map showing the time boundaries between DSA, LBA, EMA and MAN. Calculate the number of ABC1s within the DSA catchment. That is your potential core market. Proposition 1--- most of the best postcodes in W and S Yorks are not in the right place for DSA. Proposition 2 --at £1.30 a litre for petrol, the long distance market is a thing of the past. Proposition 3 the ethnic market at a place like DSA is weak. Proposition 4 --there is capacity at the competitor airports. Proposition 5 --inbound market attractiveness is weak. Result--it's a struggle to achieve lift off in terms of the range of destinations which can be offered.

[Mickey Kaye]

of course they are saying the link road will make the difference as they are not paying for it.
and it will be a great bonus for the place when they convert the airport to a business park

[blackbeard1]

You may not have noticed but DSA is already a business park.
Robin Hood Airport Business Park offers Industrial, Office and Distribution Units in Sheffield (http://www.peel.co.uk/landandproperty/rhabusinesspark)
along with what is left of SZD
Sheffield Business Centre - Peel Land and Property (http://www.peel.co.uk/landandproperty/sheffieldbusinesscentre)
Peel are primarily a land and property company specialising in buying failing companies with lots of land. Their first real project was the underused Manchester Ship Canal, just look at Trafford Park and all the other developments on the disused docks.
About Peel Land and Property - Portfolio of Commercial and Residential Property in the UK (http://www.peel.co.uk/landandproperty/aboutus/default.aspx)

[TimmyW]

Would be interesting to see the loads for all the lost routes over the last few years. That would settle the argument whether the demand was there.

As for Peel - excellent at developing land - but are they any good at running airports? I think that answer is plain to see.

[North West]

Peel need to be honest with their intentions though - as I still firmly believe it was just land aquisition and still is.

Explain to us the financial reasoning behind why they would do that. What is so valuable about the land that means they would be prepared to wait it out for years before they could develop it? Why would they incur all of the costs of investing and running an airport while they were sitting on it ?

[G-FORZ]

So it's ABC1's that fill the Jet2 flights at LBA, THOM flights at DSA and the largest route range that Wizz operate outside of LTN at DSA??? You might want to consider the spending priorities of C2DE's and re look at your map

[anothertyke]

Thanks--thought I'd better have a look at some CAA published data. Talking in telephone numbers, 10% of business purpose traffic and a third of leisure is C2DE over a range of airports. Obviously that is significant, crazy to deny that, but I maintain my proposition that to develop markets you need a well-located core of ABC1s. Wizz could be driven differently--maybe I was wrong on the ethnic point?

[SWBKCB]

As for Peel - excellent at developing land - but are they any good at running airports? I think that answer is plain to see.

Anybody remember Liverpool before Peel bought it?

Explain to us the financial reasoning behind why they would do that. What is so valuable about the land that means they would be prepared to wait it out for years before they could develop it? Why would they incur all of the costs of investing and running an airport while they were sitting on it ?

Spot on - is there such a desperate shortage of brown field sites around Doncaster that the best way of getting hold of some is to develop an airport and then let it fail?

Sure Peel will want to develop the land around the airport (again look at LPL), but it's worth more with an airport than without it.

[blackbeard1]

Quote
"Sure Peel will want to develop the land around the airport (again look at LPL), but it's worth more with an airport than without it."

Peel bought SZD closed it and found it was worth more without a runway.

[davidjohnson6]

How far is SZD from the commercial centre of Sheffield ?
How far is DSA from the commercial centre of Doncaster ?
Looking at the location of the 2 airports, which is likely to have higher land values in the event that DSA were to close ?
Of Sheffield and Doncaster, which has the bigger population and which has more commerce going on ?

[SWBKCB]

Quote
"Sure Peel will want to develop the land around the airport (again look at LPL), but it's worth more with an airport than without it."

Peel bought SZD closed it and found it was worth more without a runway.

Loss making, restricted airport sold to a competitor who had a considerable investment just up the road - what could possibly go wrong?

In my view LPL is the model for what Peel wanted to do at DSA and MME i.e. develop the surrounding land and take the traffic that was at the time being neglected by the local rival mainstream airports (MAN, LBA, NCL) i.e. loco and freight. Times have changed but for both DSA and MME, the development opportunities are better centred around a thriving airport. The interesting bit is how long Peel are prepared to stand the loses until the market comes back to them.

[cumbrianboy]

Let's not forget DSA is still is a functioning regional airport with c 3/4 million passengers a year. That is not to be sneezed at ...

The aviation industry is only just starting to show glimmers of growth. European airlines are starting to order aircraft and open new routes for the first time in a major way for years.

Personally, I think DSA will have it's time? Why? Because:

1. It takes time. Look at STN, it sat there empty for years and years until it got its big break

2. Timing was pants, the economic cycle, logistical issues all played a part of capping growth in the short term at DSA. But we can take a more mid to long term view ...

However, I do think the problem is a chicken vs egg one. In my opinion DSA needs a core 'bread and butter' market that is not reliant on charters / leisure flights to underpin it. This is what keeps the place going in the 'leisure quiet' months (winter). The problem here is, although there is a sizeable population for which DSA is by far the most convenient airport, the economy is not quite at a level where it can sustain a more business focused operation (e.g., routes like AMS, BHD, CDG, and other key business centres).

Here is the chicken and egg - the economy won't attract the inward investment it needs without the connectivity, and the airlines won't stump up the routes without the market activity. So, in the short term without intervention, companies will continue to go to invest in Manchester, Leeds and beyond.

Now, if you ask me, if the local and regional councils really wanted to help DSA, they should be offering support to develop a useful network on flights that will support economic growth, then, and I think only then, will the South Yorkshire region attract the inward investment it so desperately needs, and start to address the unbalance of economic activity across that whole region. Let us not forget South Yorkshire is technically a deprived region ...

This was the case that was argued at the planning inquiry for Finningley as it then was, alas circumstances change and the airport made the investment but the external support was not there as much as it perhaps could have been. And here I have to say, the airport is 100% right about the link road. Without fast road access to Sheffield, the airport will always lose out to LBA and MAN. The bigger issue though, as I said above, is that without the link road, and some useful business routes at DSA, Sheffield city will continue to lose out Leeds, Manchester, Birmingham, Bristol etc as they just don't have the option to connect to international markets quickly and easy.

The argument for reopening Sheffield City is sweet but I think that ship has sailed. I was upset when SZD closed as I think location it was probably the best bet, but with a 1200m runway you're pushed to get a Q400 in, and so unless they can add 600m to the runway (which they can't) then I think it's a dream.

Make the most of DSA, and if the local, city and regional councils really want it to work, I don't think it's beyond the wit of man to make something happen ...

[wb9999]

cumbrianboy, that's the most sensible post I've seen on here for a long time.

Some regional airports would love to have 650k+ passengers a year. Yet, some people (the FSB in particular) think this is a failure. I think the FSB forget that Sheffield City only managed 70k in its busiest year (pre-Peel BTW). So it's puzzling why they are gloating about DSA's drop in passenger numbers and wishing to resurrect SZD.

I think the biggest mistake that DSA made was relying on Thomson Fly as a launch airline. They had routes to "business destinations", like Amsterdam, at launch - I flew that route several times and the load factor must have been approaching 100%. And I regularly flew to Spain for £8 each way from DSA (including taxes and fees). Unfortunately, Thomson Fly changed their business model after a couple of years and replaced low cost with charter and prices increased sharply. At the same time, APD was rising fast and the economy dropping like a stone. All of these factors together had a big impact on passenger numbers.

blackbeard1, an airport with only 45k passengers and zero cargo potential is surely going to be worth more without an airport than with it. DSA on the other hand has much more potential with the airport open. A significant proportion of the business park is occupied by aircraft related businesses, who would leave if the airport was to close.

[blackbeard1]

wb9999, have you heard about Manchester City Airport and Heliport?
City Airport and Heliport (http://www.cityairportandheliport.com/)
Peel seem to be happy to promote that with a short runway and zero cargo but then they don't own the local international airport.

[jumpseater]

ILS32
For the number of postings you make on this thread about this airport I was surprised to see you weren't aware of the AN124 movements. With no disrespect to you, :confused: I'd have thought you would have been better researched, (see penultimate sentence).

I'm not at all surprised however to read I think the fact the airport virtually lies still from dawn to dusk also gives an even worse impression on the level of traffic from someone who clearly doesn't do any serious research on the traffic mix at DSA:D. Unfortunately this attitude is all too common on these airport threads (for all airports), but particularly prevalent here.


The DFP article as usual, is virtually incoherent with random unrelated stats. If a scribbler sent that to me to be run as an article it would have been handed back to them rolled into a tight tube with further instructions, and their career would be nosediving at a greater rate than 0.7 % :D.


Another AN124 at the airport as I went past today.

Go figure.

[ILS32]

Well jumpseater I also was surprised as the above quote is not one of mine.The reference to the DFP article again has nothing to do with me.

[TimmyW]

Announced that Ryanair will continue the Tenerife route throughout the winter which is good news. Was summer only last year.

[jumpseater]

ILS32

If you, (or anyone else) feel I've attributed that quote and link to DFP to ILS32, let me assure you that is most certainly not the case.

[onyxcrowle]

So Ryr to Do a winter route.....

[wawkrk]

I remember when DSA first opened, there were loads of stories about about jumbos etc. flying all over the place. Those involved at the time were saying DSA had longest runway in the country etc which of course is nonsense. They believed is was enough for DSA to just wave it's big willy and the airlines would flock to DSA.
There must have been no aviation professionals involved at time as most people would have known, people make airports not runways.
A certain magazine was convinced at the time. I wrote to them and expressed the views above, of course, nobody agreed with with me as they were all wrapped up in the euphoria.

wawkrk

[TimmyW]

DSA won't be publishing passengers numbers any longer for some reason.

[davidjohnson6]

DSA won't be publishing passengers numbers any longer for some reason.

Timmy - do you have a source for that, or perhaps some rationale as to why DSA won't publish passenger numbers in the future ?

[airhumberside]

Don't they have to supply passenger figures to the CAA to publish?

[planenut321]

Not all of the stats are uploaded, hence DSA (and BHD and others) not having anything entered, will be filled in the next few days.

[TimmyW]

Nope, nothing published. Same for Teeside. Coincidence. Or maybe they're not wanting more bad media reports of declining passenger numbers.

[SWBKCB]

Presumably you are talking about the absence of details from the CAA's provisional stats for June?

If so, there could be many reasons why they haven't appeared yet, or do you know for certain that Peel have decided not to submit figures to the CAA? or just stirring??

[TimmyW]

I have it on good authority they won't be. Mainly down to the media panning they got after they were released last month.

[davidjohnson6]

Apart from Doncaster and Durham Tees Valley, the CAA has not yet published provisional dtats for Inverness, Prestwick or many of the Scottish island airports. Suggest waiting until either Friday 26 July or Friday 2 August to see if next CAA updates contain the numbers. The CAA provides some good stats saying how many weeks it takes to publish all airports.

[StoneyBridge Radar]

More crap from the keyboards of the usual suspect.

Every commercial airport is obliged and required to submit movements and passenger totals to the CAA in order for the CAA to collate the overall national statistics.

If it is true that whoever currently owns DSA wants to avoid bad press and not submit totals, they will find that avenue more like a cul-de-sac.

[Beafer]

Do Peel do caravan stats as well? They have loads up north, but not many planes ;)

[TimmyW]

Peel's plans for a business park at DSA have been suffered a blow after the planning application was defered. Apparently it is to do with the uncertainty of the airports future and the delayed start on the link road, which is almost a year behind schedule for construction starting.

[Wellington Bomber]

Just my two pennerth worth from a recent trip to DSA

Firstly it was great to go from a fairly local airport, parking easy, getting to signage appalling.

Now the downside. Advertising posters in the terminal all out of date by years, Not able to buy a newspaper until after 0730 because the he lives in Scunthorpe. There were 2 full 737's departing about 0700. This is supposed to be an international airport. Starting to look run down

[blackbeard1]

I have not flown out of DSA for years and the last time I flew out it was looking very unloved. I must have used it once a year for the Salzburg flight until Thomson pulled the flight, for the first few years it was full of hope then the rot seemed to set in. Sadly many of the airside and land side amenities closed and I suspect have not reopened. The last time I used it the early morning flight went technical and we had to wait in the departure lounge for over 5 hours, it was like a ghost town as we were the only flight until an afternoon Ryan flight. At least the girl at the coffee bar was kept busy cashing in on the vouchers from Thomsons, I think that the coffee bar may have gone now. I still manage my annual fix of the mountains, not from DSA but from MAN along with the rest of my flying needs which in the last year have included 6 european short haul and 2 long haul, none of the destinations served by DSA.
It surprised me to see proudly placed on the DSA website the claim "UK's no1 for customer satisfaction 2011 as voted by Which? Members"

[TimmyW]

Yes, in regards to facilities such as getting food/drink, newspapers etc, they are only open certain hours of the day which means when some flights depart, there is absolutely nowhere to buy these things from. The Costa Coffee outlet shut a long time ago, as in the winter, some days they were getting no customers at all.
Catch 22 situation, not enough customers to keep these kind of facilities open, but then when you do have customers, there is nowhere for them to buy things from.
My mum flew from the airport about a month ago, in the afternoon with 2 other flights departing at a similar time, and the Wetherspoons, W H Smiths and Duty Free were all closed, and after finding a member of staff, they basically confirmed it was because it wasn't financially viable for them to stay open for long periods.
They've also just got rid of the wifi facilities to cut costs.

As regards to the place looking run down, the airport axed a lot of maintenance staff which means things like external grass cutting and weeding, general repairs internally are not carried out, or carried out once in a blue moon.

The airport is clearly dying a slow death. Peel just need to put the place out of its misery.

[StoneyBridge Radar]

Hold the front page....

Heraklion confirmed for summer 2014 with Thomson.

:ooh::ooh::ooh:

[LBIA]

That is good news to hear StoneyBridge Radar.

So which route/rotation has been dropped by Thomson at DSA so that it can be replaced by this new Crete Heraklion route next summer?

Or is going to be the first growth seen by Thomson's at DSA without them dropping capacity on exsisting routes at last...

[IrishFlyer2013]

So which route/rotation has been dropped by Thomson so it can be replaced by this new Crete Heraklion route next summer?

Antalya has been dropped.

[FRatSTN]

And the Tuesday flight to Palma has also been dropped as that was operated on a W pattern by a STN aircraft, but that will now be used to operate the new Kos route from Stansted.

[flybar]

Antalya has been dropped.

Probably because Monarch are now flying that route from LBA

[TimmyW]

Thomson have cut the Kos and Bourgas routes from DSA next summer plus one flight to Palma, which is quite a loss.

[davidjohnson6]

Timmy - your posts give the perception that you wish to see DSA fail as quickly as possible, yet your profile shows you as living in Doncaster. This seems a somewhat unusual combination. Without wishing to ask you to declare your personal life or identity, is there a particular reason why a resident of Doncaster would be keen to see DSA close ?

[rpmac]

I think Timmy W is just being realistic.

[onyxcrowle]

What I meant in my half asleep ramblings
Is that, All this bile toward Dsa from certain people is stupid.
All airports even those as large as Man see routes chopped or not reappearing.
Thomson or is it First choice have given two new ones.
And Fr have offered a winter service.
He might well keep an eye on the news.
Turkey has had some troubles of Late , As for Egypt we can only hope Sharm El Sheik remains, Otherwise...

[Richard Taylor]

Onyx - sorry, I have to ask. Are you typing with your feet? Your post on the Teesside thread is just as incomprehensible? :ooh:

[ericlday]

Just back from the pub or the drugs have kicked in !!!!

[onyxcrowle]

Posted on a touch screen while half asleep ;)

[TimmyW]

Still no figures from June. Heard on the grapevine the numbers were quite a bit lower than the month of May, which would be a PR disaster.

[wb9999]

Still no figures from June

They're not due to be released by the CAA until 13th August. Patience Timmy.

[TSR2]

They're not due to be released by the CAA until 13th August

Think Timmy is referring to the JUNE stats that were released on the 16th JULY.

The JULY stats are due to be released on the 15th August.

[davidjohnson6]

The CAA released *provisional* stats for June in mid July. The finalised version of the June stats will be published in mid August. Provisional stats for July will also be published in mid August

The CAA update the provisional stats on their website weekly - usually on Fridays. Typically it take 3 or 4 weeks from the first set of provisional stats being published before all UK airports have been published on a provisional basis

It should be noted that even after publication of final monthly stats, the CAA occasionally go back and update stats again in case of errors or omissions

Wait til about 10th of August before deciding DSA (and MME) are not being published... unless you have access to non public information

[CM738]

As an employee of Doncaster Sheffield airport, I find it frustrating to read some of the posts here, especially from Mr Timmy W, all those that work at the airport are ever hopeful that we will turn a corner. We know the airport is looking tired, and lacking in facilities, believe me we feel as let down as a lot of people.
Fingers crossed things will improve, time will tell.

I just hope that IF :confused: things did turn sour, the dedicated workforce will be able find employment elsewhere.

[NorthSouth]

People need to stop believing the crap that comes out of the various property development companies/venture capital enterprises/private equity corporations that now own most of the UK's national aviation infrastructure. DSA's whole business case, as presented by Peel in the heady days of the public inquiry in 2003, rested on stealing the vast bulk of the airport's traffic from Manchester, Leeds Bradford and Humberside. Those heady days are now long gone and the traffic - if it ever was there - has now disappeared. Long ago, we all used to believe that every town's airport was somehow public property, and part of the 'public good'. In most cases that was also literally true. Now that we have all allegedly decided that airports are just another private asset that is to be gambled on in the shady world of derivatives and 'positions', the idea that an airport ought to actually provide services to the local community is anathema.

I empathise with people who have jobs at the likes of DSA. Like so many other employees these days they are at the mercy of amoral company directors who spend their time moving speculative assets around and collecting guarantees of lifetime leisure while making lots of other people live on the edge from day to day.

NS

[ryansf]

Timmy, you'll be pleased to hear the June statistics have been released...

80,992, an increase (yes, that's MORE passengers) of 1.8% on June last year.

It may not be a huge increase, but an increase is an increase.

[davidjohnson6]

Heard on the grapevine the numbers were quite a bit lower than the month of May

May saw 67,198 passengers. As ryansf says, June saw 80,992 passengers
Thus, June saw over 20% more passengers than May

Timmy - your grapevine source seems to be unreliable - perhaps in future you could ask your source to check their numbers before relaying the information here ?

[jumpseater]

Timmy - your grapevine source seems to be unreliable - perhaps in future you could ask your source to check their numbers before relaying the information here ?

I believe Timmys on hols at the moment in Egypt visiting his source.

They are both staying in De Nile.

[TimmyW]

July down on the previous July, despite more flights this summer. Says it all really.

Dread to think how quiet it will be next summer now Thomson have cut 3 routes.

[blackbuck]

TimmyW the amount of flights is the same next summer as this summer according to the Thomson timetable so the capacity is the same next summer.

As to there being less routes as apposed to less capacity I'm not sure. But if there is less routes is that more important than less capacity? I would say not in my opinion.

[TimmyW]

blackbuck

You're wrong as the lost flights to Kos and Bourgas (operating this summer) haven't been picked up anywhere else.

[Skipness One Echo]

Yes, in regards to facilities such as getting food/drink, newspapers etc, they are only open certain hours of the day which means when some flights depart, there is absolutely nowhere to buy these things from. The Costa Coffee outlet shut a long time ago, as in the winter, some days they were getting no customers at all.
Catch 22 situation, not enough customers to keep these kind of facilities open, but then when you do have customers, there is nowhere for them to buy things from.
My mum flew from the airport about a month ago, in the afternoon with 2 other flights departing at a similar time, and the Wetherspoons, W H Smiths and Duty Free were all closed, and after finding a member of staff, they basically confirmed it was because it wasn't financially viable for them to stay open for long periods.
They've also just got rid of the wifi facilities to cut costs.

A lesson from my former stomping ground? The only group ever to make money at PIK were the original owners who brought everything in house. Hence facilities were all offered for a marginal cost, all a bit rough and ready of course but it kept the terminal alive and the people fed. Of course Management Nonsense 1.01 was to outsource to professional retailers like WHS and allow high street brands into the business? Result? All went badky wrong when Ryanair moved a lot of business to EDI and many facilities closed.
K-I-S-S Keep it simple stupid.

[onyxcrowle]

Timmy those routes have been replaced showing identical numbers.
This now the time finally where new routes and improvements are almost with us.
They might mean Ryanair en masse.
And from the horses mouth they are working on a hub connection.
The only fly in the ointment is HUY. They have a new manager. Had the place a very short time and half of this year brings new routes.
That SAS link is a gamechanger insofar as it then shows more choice and confudence in the airport.
We should be pleased and supportive of our other local airport.
I think in the very near future we will have one or more new routes and perhaps even some domestic destinations offered by EVERY other Uk airport. Flame me if you will it will hapoen.
Tho some here will still be hell bent on dissing and downplaying its future. Just so they have the smug pleasure to say I told you so.....

[TimmyW]

Onyx - the loss of Bourgas and Kos flights have NOT been picked up by Thomson. If you believe they have can you tell me where the added routes/frequencies are?

And how do you know new routes are almost with us? Can you back this up with anything?

[wb9999]

TimmyW hasn't reported this story, presumably because it doesn't fit in with his agenda or what he has said before. So I'll post it!

BBC News - Work to start on £56m Finningley and Rossington link road (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-south-yorkshire-23825206)
And plans are in place for the remaining 1.5 miles of single carriageway to be upgraded to dual carriageway.

[Mickey Kaye]

And how much are Peel contributing to its cost I wonder.

Either way it will be idea for when they aren't able to make it pay as an airport and turn it into a shopping centre and business park.

When they get a government grant that is

[onyxcrowle]

I wish to apologise for my recent rambling postd
Im simply not like it in real life.
Im currently going thru hrll in my life . Lost my job etc.
The medication given loosens my tounge and I end up spouting rubbish.
However I am genuinely passionate anout seeing both our local regional airports thrive.
It wad mentioned a few posts up that folk beleived that an airport was a local service and a rigjt.
I still think thats true. Perhaps local government need to lobby airlines and partially subsides routes as a kind of kiclstarter campaign style to encourage growth anf new routes.
I think DSA should be strongly looking to pull in some high profile freight routes. Perhaps as places like manchester start to fill up and witha new logidtics and rail hub such a thing might be the way forqard.
Its disapointing that DSA missed out on SAS.
Do id like to throw open the discussion as clearl5 most if not every route suggestions for DSA are met with derison and ridicule.
The law of averages stands to reason we will eventually get new routes so cmon guys rather than shoot me or others for suggesting any new routes could never happen.
Then tell us what woulf you suggest?.
Might we see more domestic links?
How about Edi and Inverness One the obvious captial of Scotland and way faster than train and light years quicker than car.
Amsterdam or Frankfurt? Both hubs.
Are these pheasible?.Amd who would operate them.
It seems every other airline suggested here is dismissed as a looney idea and posters are meant to feel stupid.
Southampton would maybe work by linking uo cruise passengers.
On the Jet2 thread Someone aluded to the possibility of an Alc-Huy. If that happened surley it proves its not impossible.
And final question. Dsa does seem swamped with bucket and spade routes (wizzair excepted).
So where next.
And my apologies again for out of it posts

[ILS32]

Onyxcrowle there is no need for an apology. I don't think anyone is more enthusiastic in supporting their local airports than yourself.It is always interesting reading some of your posts.I would make one suggestion,you need to get a better word checker or at least edit your posts before sending.It is sometimes hard to understand what you are trying to say.Keep posting and just ignore anyone who has a go at you.

[onyxcrowle]

Thank you ILS. As for the spelling the becursed autocorrect strikes often ;).
But on here whatever uk airline is suggested on here is pretty much universally rejected and abuse given to those suggestions.
You can list every single one and to hear most on here they have a cast iron certainty that forever more these airlines will NEVER fly from DSA and posters who do are frequently abused and derided for even asking.
But they might keep in mind that if in 1983. Youd told the base commander of RAF Finningley that thirty years later one of his prize nuclear vbombers would be centre stage at an airport where half the flights arrived and headed to the very nations that were targeted by said missiles and bombers youd have had simular unpleasant responses to those of the close minded here.
Now if a smaller airport like Huy can pull in that many new routes in one year, Sooner or later Doncaster will too. And how many of those routes will be served by airlines derided on here for a person daring to even suggest it.
And for the record Manston was offering flights to Hial airports in a vastly smaller cathment !

[BKS Air Transport]

Firstly, onyx, I'd just like to second what ILS32 says. I hope things soon improve for you.

When it comes to suggesting new routes for Doncaster perhaps think of the following. Both East Midlands and Leeds are well established airports in vaguely the same area of the country. If they don't already have the route you are contemplating, think why not. You may then answer your own question.

[onyxcrowle]

Thanjs guys :)

[davidjpowell]

Doncaster is in an awkward part of the country for routes I suspect.

I can get to most of the major conurbations (London, Leeds, Manchester, Bristol, Newcastle, Edinburgh & Glasgow) within 4 hours by car - some a lot less.

If I don't want to drive most of these can be done by train also

London, 1h 40m
Leeds, 40m
Manchester, 1hr 30m
Bristol, 3hr 30m
Newcastle, 1hr 30m
Edinburgh 2hr 45m
Glasgow 3hr 45m

Basically taking into account the hassle of flying, the time of check-in and the flight, + dealing with an airport on the edge of a city, the plane route fails. I think it's unlikely that we will see mainland UK routes at the airport.

Sadly when I do want to fly - typically to Ireland, the routes aren't there and I end up with a drive to East Midlands or Leeds.

It would be great if Doncaster could pick-up a route out to a hub though.

In the meantime I look forward to the new link road, living just 1 minute away from it's terminating point.

[egcntristar]

And how do you know new routes are almost with us? Can you back this up with anything?

I find it somewhat ironic that Timmy is asking for proof when nothing he has prophesied about has actually happened......

Forever blowing bubbles.

[davidjohnson6]

62,849 pax in August 2013, up 6.9 % on August 2012

[bad bear]

or, down 7.8% year on year to 683727 passengers.

bb

[egcntristar]

Change to this winters Thomson programme at the airport, a second weekly Lanzarote flight will be replacing one of the flights to Sharm.

On a sad note a big contributor to the forums who was a big part of Finningley has left us, RIP Sir Derek, top man.

[onyxcrowle]

Change to this winters Thomson programme at the airport, a second weekly Lanzarote flight will be replacing one of the flights to Sharm.

On a sad note a big contributor to the forums who was a big part of Finningley has left us, RIP Sir Derek, top man.

Rip Sir Derek :(

[LBIA]

So work is actually starting today on the new £56 million dual carriageway link road from the M18 to Rossington, with work expected to be completed by 2016. Its just a shame it wont be going all the way to the Airport.

BBC News - Robin Hood Airport to M18 link road starts (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-south-yorkshire-24496780)

I wonder if any airlines will be tempted to start new routes from DSA once its completed in 2016?

[wb9999]

So work is actually starting today on the new £56 million dual carriageway link road from the M18 to Rossington, with work expected to be completed by 2016. Its just a shame it wont be going all the way to the Airport.

The new road will join existing roads 2.5 miles from the airport, and those 2.5 miles are not a problem - there is rarely congestion and a quarter of that section is already dual carriageway on the airport entry road.

The journey time from the end of the new road to the airport will be about 4 minutes - hardly an issue.

The new road will mean passengers avoid urban areas of Doncaster which get heavily congested at rush hour. The journey time will be cut by at least 20 minutes, with a bigger saving during rush hour.

[onyxcrowle]

Local news also reported the inland port will start work soon.
With that on the doorstep as well it might tempt more freight

[LAX_LHR]

I wonder if any airlines will be tempted to start new routes from DSA once
its completed in 2016?


Id very much doubt it. Still the same airport in the same spot. In the grand scheme of things very little will have changed.

This 5 minute time saving is hardly going to swing the opinions and preferences of the masses, and without the masses the airlines will be reluctant to come.

[Teevee]

Its a bit more than 'five' minutes, and it will give the assurance of not getting involved in long unplanned for delays in the traffic heading into Doncaster. It probably would affect the thinking of people in the north Derbyshire/Sheffield area. That said it will take three years and who knows what the situation will be then?probably freight is the best short term bet, with any new pax route growth being a trickle.New routes aren't suddenly going to explode!

[blackbeard1]

As a frequent flyer from the Sheffield area my problem with DSA is not the time it takes to get to the airport but the lack of flights to where I want to go to and the overall airport experiance. Saving a few minutes journey time getting to an airport with no flights will not make any difference to me.

[LAX_LHR]

Its a bit more than 'five' minutes, and it will give the assurance of not
getting involved in long unplanned for delays in the traffic heading into
Doncaster.


Will it now?

Lets look at it properly shall we. The new link road will not alter the journey time from Sheffield to J3 of the M18, so lets not include any time savings there.

Now, I have been to DSA many times, and it has never taken me more than 15 minutes from J3 to DSA via Lakeside. Next, the new road will probably take 5-7 minutes from J3 to the DSA doors, can you therefore explain where this huge time saving will come from, as without the aid of a teleportation device or time machine, I just don't see it. As for these 'large traffic jams', Ive rarely seen them in all the times Ive visited family in the Doncaster area, and Doncaster is hardly a bustling metropolis like the centre of London, Birmingham or Manchester.

And lets not forget the road isn't actually for the benefit of the airport, its for the regeneration of Rossington and Finningly, as the name suggests......

[wb9999]

LAX_LHR, firstly it takes 20 minutes from J3 to DSA at quiet times, going the speed limit - I do the journey several times per week.
Secondly, try doing the journey at rush hour (after 4pm going to DSA or before 9.30am coming from DSA), and it will easily take 30-40 due to the traffic on Bawtry Road through Bessacarr.

When the new road is built, the journey it will about 8 minutes from J3 to DSA.

[LAX_LHR]

LAX_LHR, firstly it takes 20 minutes from J3 to DSA at quiet times, going the
speed limit - I do the journey several times per week.


Well I do not know where you are going wrong then. I also go the speed limit (with traffic lights and roundabouts not many places you could break it easily tbh), and one journey was timed at 14 minutes from turn off at J3 to the very last roundabout outside DSA.


When the new road is built, the journey it will about 8 minutes from J3 to
DSA


OK then, lets use your 20 minutes as a time bar, just for ease of argument and the sake of 6 minutes.
The journey time saving of 12 minutes from Sheffield. Im not aiming this at you personally, but, who are these masses of people that are suddenly going to say 'oh, DSA is 12 minutes closer? Why didn't you say? That makes all the difference!

12 minutes in the grand scheme of destination choice, check in time (2-3 hours before departure for some), price, airline choice etc.

Im just intrigued at where this link road is going to be the 'making' of DSA?

Still a small country lane to traverse for large lorries. Still the same number of buses to DSA. Still no coach links. Still no rail station.

I appreciate Rome wasn't built in a day, but I feel just a little too much hope has been placed on this link road, which, let me re-iterate again, isn't primarily for the benefit of DSA.

[ryansf]

I'd just like to back up the above posters with regards to journey times, having lived in Doncaster most of my life and Bessacarr for the past five years, you can really trust me when I say that traffic is hellish during rush hour down Bawtry Road and around the Dome/Lakeside areas. It would easily take 40 minutes to do the journey. Having said that, for purposes of balance, Parrots Corner is quite a bottleneck so we'll have to see if adding an extra road into an already busy junction will help with the Bawtry Road traffic problems.

Still a small country lane to traverse for large lorries.
You obviously haven't been into the countryside much if you think Hurst Lane is a "small country lane"! Now it's not the M25 but it's certainly no narrower than the roads leading to LBA and EMA.

[LGS6753]

What this debate about journey times misses is the proximity of parking at DSA to the terminal. That must be worth twenty minutes of anyone's time compared to (say) EMA.

[Teevee]

LAX_LHR yes, let's look at properly shall we? ryansf has lived in Doncaster for years, and right now I'm living in Rotherham, having previously lived in Rossington and am working at Hayfield School, just a bit further up Hurst Lane than the DSA turn-off. I think your admission that you've never the 'large traffic jams' says it all, as does your admission that you have often travelled that route visiting family and friends ... one normally picks ones time to do that and it isn't 'peak' time. On Sundays you might be able to do it in 15 minutes with every light at green but on weekdays I have to make damn sure I'm coming off the M18 by 7.35 if I want to be sure of getting to school by 8.00. And there's the rub. It isn't just the time, it is the uncertainty of present routes that is a pain. Everything from normal work traffic, to Doncaster Rovers traffic to Bank Holiday B&Q, to busy times at ASDA to the Hall Cross kids stopping traffic every 20 seconds at the pedestrian crossing to get to school at Cantley Bridge can affect it. Time is only ever an issue at any airport if you hit unexpected delays and as far as getting to DSA for a fllight goes, depending on the time it can be a concern. This route at least removes those concerns. And if you'll read my original post properly, I never said anything like this road will be magic provider of pax for DSA, though it certainly isn't going to do the place any harm. Never mind just Finningley and Rossington, it'll work wonders for the whole of Doncaster.

[LAX_LHR]

one normally picks ones time to do that and it isn't 'peak' time


Oh yes, all those flights from DSA are right smack bang in the middle of rush hour, aren't they. Apart from the wizzair's and non-based charters, most flights are off based units.
Morning flights from base (Thomson etc) usually leave around 6-8am, check in time from 4am is. Rush hour of 40 minutes at 4am? If you say so.....

2nd wave usually from 1pm-3pm-ish. Again, check in from 11am and not in rush hour again. So, lets all use this 'bad traffic' excuse again shall we, all that bad traffic in Doncaster's rush hours of 4am and 11am :ugh:

[wb9999]

I've been to DSA today, and at 1pm it took 20 minutes from Lakeside. The traffic didn't go any faster than 30mph all the way down Bawtry Road, despite a speed limit that varies between 40-60 - and in my weekly experience that's pretty good timing. This was around check-in time for a Thomson flight, as there was a large queue at checkin when I arrived at DSA.

[Helen49]

Changing the road network will be insignificant compared with changing the mind set of passengers who presently use EMA, LBA and MAN !

Doncaster is a long way from the 7m pax per annum forecast by Caroline Flint MP at the public enquiry....not many of the forecast 7000 jobs created either.

It's a shame, splendid airport but in the wrong place?

H49

[wb9999]

Helen49, not so much the mindset of the passengers, but the mindset of the airlines. It's the airlines who decide where to launch flights. The airport went from 0 to 2 million passengers in 3 years. So passengers are willing to travel if the flights are there.

The biggest problem for Robin Hood was they relied on Thomson Fly as a launch airline, and they went and ditched their budget airline model after a couple of years and went charter only. And it's been downhill since then.

[davidjohnson6]

Wb999 - you mentioned that "The airport went from 0 to 2 million passengers in 3 years"
Do you mean that over a period of 3 years, 2m people passed through or that 2m passengers were achieved in a single year ?
If you're looking over a cumulative 3 year period then a lot of UK airports would have very impressive stats...

[wb9999]

davidjohnson6, 2.6 million cumulative in the first 3 years of opening. I'm not comparing the current passengers of decades-old airports with one that was brand new, as it's natural to expect a long established airport to achieve higher (although quite a few struggle to get 2 million over 3, 4 or 5 years).

2 million in the first 3 years of a brand new airport, in my opinion, shows that the demand is there if the flights are there. But the flights currently aren't there. Which is why it's the airlines mindset that needs changing, rather than the passengers.

[Skipness One Echo]

Helen49, not so much the mindset of the passengers, but the mindset of the airlines. It's the airlines who decide where to launch flights.
The airlines serve a market, a quantifiable set of passenger behaviours. The other issue is critical mass, it is often cheaper to add flights to an exisiting base than open another outstation, this is particularly true when there is an assumption you can get the market to come to you, rather than pay to go to it. Very true with regional airports with nearby competition.

DSA was the answer to a question no one was asking sadly.

[Shed-on-a-Pole]

The mindset of the airline industry is quite straightforward.

Question 1: Will the deployment of our scarce resources on the route DSA-XXX result in a healthy profit for our company? [Note: Profit matters; passenger numbers are incidental].

Question 2: If the answer to Q1 is 'yes', will the profit on the service(s) ex-DSA exceed those anticipated from alternative opportunities offered by other airports which are also available to us?

If the answer to both questions is 'yes', DSA is in the running. If not, an alternative will be selected.

And don't forget, a "winning" bid may not be geographically nearby. For example, if Typical Airways evaluates three potential new routes from its base at Koln-Bonn ... let's say DSA, Tel Aviv and Helsinki ... these options will be ranked in order of anticipated profitability. If Helsinki looks most profitable, CGN-HEL would be the new route. Thus, DSA would lose out to a route which is geographically distant from its own operation.

Note too that the thought process is not done on the basis that the contenders will be one of a cluster of nearby airports (eg. DSA / LBA / EMA / HUY). Consider only revenue and profitability. DSA is in competition with every other potential destination in Europe, not just local rivals. It will have to present a compelling case if significant new business is to be attracted. All the local civic pride stuff is purely the preserve of mayors and councillors.

EDIT: Hi Skipness - No intention to tread on your toes there; our postings crossed. Regards.

[onyxcrowle]

Perhaps the Chinese can buy it as well as Manchester. Im sure they can turn a penny or two. They could rename It Manchester East ;)

[NorthSouth]

wb9999:2 million in the first 3 years of a brand new airport, in my opinion, shows that the demand is there if the flights are thereThe DSA business model, as tested in the public inquiry in 2003, was to poach the vast majority of their passengers from Manchester, Leeds-Bradford and Humberside. They grew in the first two years and it's been downhill ever since. It was always a shaky business model. It started to fail before the downturn.
NS

[Frankfurt_Cowboy]

You see timmy? Typical airways are considering donny, and it's down to the last three. Fingers crossed we'll be flying to Koeln-Bonn in the not too distant future. Oh ye of little faith.

[ShyTorque]

Changing the road network will be insignificant compared with changing the mind set of passengers who presently use EMA, LBA and MAN !

I think the passengers would fly from Donny, but if there's nothing suitable the state of the local roads is of no importance. Living on the east sideof the Pennines, I've used the airport a few times, in preference to the other airports.

LBA can be a nightmare to get to. From personal experience, the facilities are relatively limited. After our recent experiences there we won't be using that airport again. We suffered a delay of 30 minutes getting off the aircraft (apparently not enough steps and/or ground staff), further delays getting into then through the terminal. Then waiting a further hour and ten minutes to get on the so-called "every 5 minutes" shuttle buses to the car parks. No thanks, just not good enough.

MAN can also be difficult to get to from east of the Pennines. Both the Woodhead Pass and Snake Pass can take forever because you cannot overtake slow vehicles, other than in a couple of places. If you're in a line of traffic behind a slow HGV or caravanner, forget overtaking. If there's an accident ahead on either road, as there often is, both roads are treacherous, you may well miss your flight altogether. You can use the M62, but this adds a lot of extra road miles and can also at times be very congested.

If there's a flight from Doncaster, then I'd certainly prefer to use it because it is already easy to get to, with a couple of alternative routes. The car parking is very adjacent - walk out of the terminal and cross the road to your car a few metres away.

The flights have to exist first!

[flybar]

My wife and her elderly father recently used Robin Hood for their Saturday Afternoon flight to Jersey. Never again!! Terminal was empty and other than WH Smith everything else was closed.
They were sent back to checking in desk from security because Boarding Card printing was poor (was obvious who it was for!). Scanned fathers bag three times (there was a pair of binoculars in it) - all they had to do was to ask a simple question but made a big deal out of it, and airport staff did nothing but moan because they had to wheel him to plane in a wheel chair.
Not the way to attract return passengers!

[onyxcrowle]

Despite my personal support and hope for the airport in not just passenger but freight and other traffic.
I think that the Terminal is a Discrace. I know its not as downbeat as some. But inside is almost a mirror image of some 1980's Eastern European Bloc airport.

[wb9999]

The DSA business model, as tested in the public inquiry in 2003, was to poach the vast majority of their passengers from Manchester, Leeds-Bradford and Humberside. They grew in the first two years and it's been downhill ever since. It was always a shaky business model. It started to fail before the downturn.

The passenger numbers increased for the first 3 years, and started to dip in July 2008, which is when the economy started to go pear shaped.

[rpmac]

Yet as EMA, MAN and LBA have all increased DSA has continued a decline in recent years. Is this decline really because of the economic situation or more generally that the demand is actually not that great from the Doncaster area?

[onyxcrowle]

The Demand is there but the road links are awfull.
Perhaps extending the terminal to improve the whole concept. Give passengers a decent experience.
At the moment its austere and seems to belong to another age.
Id bet with one of the two extensions done. Expand retail. Improve security and Have more check in desks.
An express bus from the train station in town.
It might just attract airlines.
Outside looks untidy that building definitely needs an overhaul.
And perhaps a couple of jetways . That should please some carriers.
And make more apron space and gates.
That might show airlines they are serious and start coming to Dsa.
All we can hope is MOL gives us some routes.
Or Perhaps AC Rouge. That is operating from smaller airports so might work here as we used to have Torronto

[chaps2011]

It`s all about money, who will open a shop when there are no pax

chaps

[rpmac]

But all that costs money! The losses must be mounting up and the initial development costs plus the grants probably have never been recouped. Is it a sound investment to pour money into something which so far hasn't exactly inspired confidence?

[TSR2]

The Demand is there but the road links are awfull

If the demand was there, existing flights would be chocker and airlines would be queuing to get a piece of the action.

The reality is there is limited demand due to many factors, non of which I suspect are due to road access.

[ILS32]

The Demand is there but the road links are awfull.
onyxcrowle I know you put forward many ideas to improve DSA and make it a successful airport.To suggest that the bad road network is the major problem.is wrong.The problem is Peel Mgmt. and the lack of people wanting to fly from DSA.Leeds must have the worst road access toany airport in the country.It does,t stop them expanding passenger numbers every month.The demand is there and the airlines want to cash in on that demand.The main reason for having a successful airport is having a good mgmt team in place.Leeds has one and and even with all its problems,built on a hill,bad access,cross winds,fog etc its the mgmt who make it successful.

[blackbeard1]

onyxcrowle, your wish that MOL would want to use DSA if the infrastructure was improved is not really an option. All Ryanair want is a field and a shed, a coffee machine would be a luxury.
Not sure if this is an omen but tried the DSA Forum just now and got the message
"This Account Has Been Suspended. Please contact the billing/support department as soon as possible."

[onyxcrowle]

I noticed that

[G-FORZ]

The number of people wanting/willing to fly from DSA will not be realised unless there are options to fly from DSA.

From previous years, when airlines have offered routes there has been demand. Keeping those routes and attracting operators does seem to be the problem of Peel management.

What are they doing to attract new or bring back operators. it's interesting that whilst everyone on this forum seem to think DSA is failing, Peel themselves are silent. maybe they are happy with the volumes offered by their two airline partners and the income generated from the site attracting residents based on future potential and accessibility.

The new road will benefit residents of the site As well as air travellers and logistical operators. 15min saving will make a difference. motorway travel from junct 3 would see the vehicle 18 miles outside of Doncaster, and that takes in quite an amount of logistical destinations in the South/West/North Yorkshire and Notts/Lincs.

Surely there is some optimism that despite what has been seen to date, Peel can employ the right people to use the link road as a catalyst to make DSA realise its true potential, lure back the airlines that should never have been allowed to leave (Ryan Easy) and those that should have come (Monarch), end Thomsons monopoly, and see the footfall that will keep all the services open to further enhance the attractiveness of the Airport.

[sxflyer]

I love this thread.

"When services have been run there has been demand"

Yes, so much demand obviously the airlines/routes involved didn't come back

"Air Canada rouge...might work here"

Air Canada rouge might well fly to DSA at some point, unfortunately for DSA it will come after they've launched Norwich, Bournemouth and Exeter or indeed airports such as Manchester, Birmingham, Bristol, Gatwick and Stansted that really could support such a service

[No RYR for me]

The number of people wanting/willing to fly from DSA will not be realised unless there are options to fly from DSA. ehh... and I think the airlines think the other way unless the airport pays them to fly...:rolleyes:

[TimmyW]

DSA hasn't had a new route for nearly 3 years, but has lost dozens, with Thomson axing another 3 as from next summer.

The terminal is already run down, with next to no facilities other than a coffee machine.

Peel refuse to comment and passenger numbers continue to fall.

I predicted closure by 2015. I stand by that,

[JordanB]

DSA Forum has some issues currently with it's server as it keeps crashing. Will be back online soon.

[jumpseater]

I realise everything you post here is wrong Timmy, we are used to that by now, but you haven't predicted closure by 2015. It was 2012, and then on the next day it was 2011.


http://www.pprune.org/6065606-post630.html

I realise its hard running from forum to forum posting that your mate in Peel/Thompson/Doncaster Free Press/The Moon has told you something, that you never manage to quantify, apart from 'oooh I heard a scary story' but you could at least try to be consistent when you quote yourself.

Hasn't your mate told you about the increase in flights this winter? I'd have thought you being a supporter of DSA, you'd be pleased about that and be here telling us all about them. Unless of course you haven't got a mate at all and you're just making it up.

The only marking of your words people do, is with a stick.

A brown one.

[rpmac]

Do we have to put up with this "Timmy bashing" every now and again?

[LBIA]

There has been some good posts on here recently, But got to admit there is no need for the Timmy bashing after just one post by him tonight. He has a right to say what he thinks even if we don't agree with him on everything

I agree that DSA has a future even if it’s not pulling it weight at the minute and hasn't been for a few years now, I'm also sure a new link road is not going change things over-night.

They maybe airlines are out there that might have an interest in operations from DSA. Hopefully as was mentioned before on here an airline in the future may consider launching new routes when it’s proven to be both a profitable & viable operation to do so. But that's going to be down DSA owners Peel and its management to do some really good marketing by selling the airports region/catchment area to the airlines.

The question is how long are Peel going to wait? As it might already be too late! You've really just got look nearby LBA, MAN and EMA where monthly passenger stats are on a upward trend and have been for a while. Meanwhile DSA own figures continue to drop away for some reason.

[onyxcrowle]

While im not always in agreeance with Timmy. And I dont think it will close in 2015.
His basic point is valid.
This crowd seem to go out of their way to be deliberately inert. Can the quantify what significant new routes they have won in the time Timmy has qouted. And if your reading at the airport may we respectfully have an explaination of where you intend to go from here.
You cant blame the economy. Theres a mass investment coming. So why did HUY bag SAS?.
Another premium route. Id say its almost certain they will gain a few more.
In short what are Dsa doing. We want other destinations domestic and northern european and The likes of Italy.
Or further up and prauge .
They need to be adveturous.
Howabout Stavanger. That seems to work well from others. Also surprised it doesnt or hasnt flown from HUY We need motivation and ideas. Howabout a public forum like we have at town council. Public get three mins to speak. Maybe that way we can ask management directly what the game plan is.
If mamston can sustain Klm Dsa ought to be swamped

[davidjohnson6]

Perhaps some of DSA's supporters could give a clear business case as to how an airline could make significant profits without much risk at Doncaster ? Pick an airline, pick a destination, pick an aircraft type, pick a sample schedule for when the aircraft should fly the route and explain what type of people are going to be paying fares and why... and then explain how the route will become profitable.

Anyone can make money flying from a shed with a runway in the UK to a Spanish beach on Saturdays in August. Aircraft need to be used all week, and in quiet seasons as well. The greater amount of wealth means Manchester will get first choice on the Saturday beach routes - Doncaster has to make a routes work on less busy days and/or multiple days in the week and for many months in the year to gain an airline's attention.

Oh and don't forget to consider competing routes at East Midlands, Humberside and Leeds-Bradford - if another airline is making money at (for example) Leeds with its larger population and greater number of businesses, you should provide a very good reason as to why the same route will work at Doncaster as well. If a route was tried at Leeds / East Midlands and flopped, you need to justify very clearly why it would work at Doncaster.

In short, see if you can come up with a convincing story that could be presented to an airline to encourage them to fly to DSA. Think of this as Dragon's Den for DSA route development.

I'd like to wish that a double daily with KLM could work. However with a train service taking 1h15 and running every hour (or every 30 mins with a change) from Sheffield to Manchester airport versus 45 mins by road to DSA, the 6x daily KLM service would probably win out on frequency - much like Newcastle versus Durham Tees Valley. Again with other routes, a Manchester that's willing to take network and LCC carriers mean big brother is just a bit too nearby for DSA to succeed in many (but not all) cases. The question is therefore what niches remain untapped ?

I'm not saying DSA has no future - rather that if you want to have a moan about DSA management not being good enough, then you need to come up with your own well-thought-out ideas as to how you could do better at running the airport.

[SWBKCB]

DJ6's challenge could equally well be applied on the Belfast, Blackpool, Bournemouth, Cardiff, DTVA, Prestwick and all the Irish regional threads.

It's like all those football phone-in's demanding new players - people on here are very good at spending other people's money!

[TSR2]

Very well said.

[G-FORZ]

Tesco doesn't open a store within a mile of Asda & Morrisons looking for new customers, they want to attract their competitors customers. The problem is DSA isn't buying in the same brands. They have a big store, the essential facilities, but access is an issue. If they sort out the access and attract the brands the customer has a more balanced choice.

Talking convenience (no pun) with the new road there will be 5 minutes difference travelling from Wetherby (15 miles from LBA & classed as outer Leeds) to DSA straight down the A1/M18.

Do Peel start shouting/touting or do they sit back with the one airline they did poach from LBA in 2005 - use I know TOM are back at LBA now but even they didn't see Jet 2 Holidays coming (that's "holidays" not airline) and gues what TOM move back in next door just like Tesco

[LGS6753]

DJ6, as always, puts his case well.

DSA was built during a period when the economy was growing (albeit fuelled by debt), and people felt affluent, so took holidays.
At the same time, low cost airlines were booming, and every airport of note had attracted a loco to base some units and fly popular routes. About the last loco to start was Thomsonfly, and its chosen bases, CVT and DSA, were clearly not prime locations, merely those airports left with facilities but no competition.
The demise of Thomsonfly, and later Globespan and BMIbaby, caused problems for DSA, Cardiff, Teesside and Coventry all of whom had relied on just one loco operator.
Coventry has not survived as a passenger terminal, and Teesside is going the same way. DSA is in a sparsely-populated region with lower than average propensity to travel. It is surrounded by other, more established airports such as EMA, LBA and MAN, each with loco bases.

Unless DSA can attract other aviation-related business, I'm afraid I can't see it surviving as a passenger terminal.

[rpmac]

Nice to see some well thought out and realistic comments about the future of DSA. I agree that its future looks somewhat bleak and as DSA tries to fight back even market share the other airports will step up their endeavours too such as attracting new routes and airlines and even improving access such as LBA and a possible new access road or train facilities. Another example SAS to HUY.
Like the supermarkets its a tough competitive world out there as DSA has found out.

[jumpseater]

But got to admit there is no need for the Timmy bashing after just one post by him tonight. He has a right to say what he thinks even if we don't agree with him on everything


Of course he has, it does help however if he doesn't tell lies. :hmm:


http://i964.photobucket.com/albums/ae130/norvenmunky/comical-ali_zps6500f522.jpg (http://s964.photobucket.com/user/norvenmunky/media/comical-ali_zps6500f522.jpg.html)



Robin Hood Airport (http://www.robinhoodairport.com/corporate-community/media-centre/press-releases/passenger-numbers-soar-at-airport)

So as usual an exact opposite to what Timmy has stated. Peel have commented, and an increase in passenger numbers.

The airport certainly needs to do better, an increase of a winter route is a step, albeit a small one, in the right direction.

[LBIA]

Jumpseater is that really an extra flight or just more spin from DSA? As I thought the extra Arrecife flight was just a replacement for one of the 2x weekly Sharm el Sheikh services which has been axed.

[jumpseater]

LBIA, you'll have to forgive me as I don't understand 'spotter' thought processes.

If a flight no longer operates to a destination it no longer operates. If you put on another flight to the same destination you could call it a replacement.

So a route that avoids the previously 'axed' destination by some 6,500 kilometres and is in the Atlantic Ocean on the other side of Africa, (in a different country),its a bit more difficult to claim its 'spin' :rolleyes: and that its not a new flight.

If however, LBIA Tours announce new exciting tours including the Pyramids on a one day coach trip from Playa Honda, I'll agree that its a 'replacement'.

[TimmyW]

That story is complete garbage. Only the August figures show an increase, the year on year figures show decline.

And the airport doens't handle over 720000 passengers a year either.

And the Lanzarote route isn't additional either, it was already there, it has just gained an extra departure every week, due to the loss of a Sharm.