ATIS vs radar approach service

[Frunobulax]

Is there any legal requirement (ICAO, Eurocontrol?) of ATIS when there's a radar approach service? Something rings a bell but I can't quire find it...

[Spitoon]

Not that I can think of. I don't have the books to hand but I think ICAO recommends ATIS where there is RTF congestion and not related to any particular service or activity.

[Crazy Voyager]

There are several Swedish airports with radar approach service that have no ATIS, in fact not that many Swedish airports have an ATIS at all (ESGG, SA, SB, MS, TL, NN, KN, are the only ones that I can think of right now).

[Frunobulax]

I thought it was not such a big deal with ATIS, especially in a country like Sweden... What's the reason for that - money? Low traffic?

[Spitoon]

Certainly in some parts of Europe the limiting factor is frequency availability - and higher priority demands on the limited number of channels available.

Departure ATIS is usually less of a problem because protected range is limited to the aerodrome boundary and tx power is much lower meaning the same channel can be assigned to airports quite close together without running into interference problems.

[Denti]

Should be easier once europe moves to datalink in the coming years. Even now D-ATIS is much easier during day to day operations, less time out of the loop listening to it and no problems deciphering your colleagues handwriting.

[Frunobulax]

Let me turn this question around: does anyone here work as a radar approach atco and has no ATIS (apart from me)?

[mad_jock]

When ever I have flown there you get what your arrival is 3 ATC sectors before getting anywhere near the approach anyway. The only busy airports are around Stockholm and that big one up north, which you do get an ATIS for.

Maybe for the over flights they might want a bit more wx but when you are landing in sweden I have never felt there was a lack of wx information.

They also have more than a few FISO airfields with instrument approaches as well, even ILS's. Again never seen a problem.

I see no burning need to change how sweden is operated. Its a pleasant operating enviroment run by nice friendly people just like Norway and Finland. But then again common sense and resources fit for purpose isn't part of normal rule making is it.

[Crazy Voyager]

Which is the big one up north? I don't think ESPA has an ATIS, ESNN has but they're not that busy IIRC?


I'm just speculating now because I have no inside information on the ops of Swedish airports, but I would guess it's down to money. Most minor airports in Sweden can do just fine without an ATIS so there isn't the need to spend money installing one. That would be my guess on why there are so few.

[mad_jock]

Your right thats the one I was thinking of.

CAT 7 airport with 3350m of tarmac and no ATIS but has a radar and lots of fast pointy things making lots of noise.

I didn't think ESNN had a radar?


Well to be honest if its a toss up between having an ILS or loc on site and a ATIS I am quite glad that they have choosen the landing aids.

[Crazy Voyager]

ESPA has some of those pointy things yeah, make sure you take photos, in Sweden they're pretty much an endagered species!


ESNN has a radar, in fact the only airport without one in Sweden is ESNQ. Excluding minor uncontrolled fields that is, I'm not sure about the AFIS (FISO) fields, some of them have (ESNX for example) but I don't think they're allowed to use it due to their limited training. Once again this is speculation though, even though I could find out if someone's intrested.

[matino]

Hello, I am working as radar approach controller in Slovakia and we have no ATIS service. It is quite funny sometimes in LZTT, because we have combined services in one workplace - tower + approach and when you are providing tower services to 4-5 planes /local traffic/ and you have another 2-3 on approach on one frequency, you have to be very fast with words :D